The Beta Complaint Mega Thread

[Takyon3]

Let's get to it.





Loyalism

Non-existent in both the initial launch and the beta, which is worrying. Apparently a few characters have received T1 and T2 loyalism because they participated in the work cycles, but that doesn't mean anything because loyalists don't get perks yet. I think it was a big mistake not introducing a proper loyalty system here in the beta, but I digress. I could go on about how to make loyalty appealing to the average player but that's another thread in of itself, so I'll leave it. I just want to see it on the actual launch.

CPs

There was a thread already made about this, you can find it here: https://willard.network/forums/threads/loyalist-rp-is-underwhelming-when-cp-display-inaction.1757/

CPs just go on patrols and berate people who confront them directly. They act very passively until an admin gives them the go ahead to gun down people during riots. What can I say? They're not bad by any means, and they're not good either. They seem to be there for the sake of hl2rp, and they have no goals of their own other then the enforcement of the status quo (which is passive rp and work rp by the way). They don't seem to employ any sort of tactics with how they control the population of the city, and they seem to think going on the odd patrol every now and then is enough. It's disappointing how bland and passive they are. No one is afraid of them, they are a laughing stock honestly and are mocked constantly without remorse.

CCA

The CCA, like the CPs, have no real authority over the population and its various departments are disconnected. CCA members have no access to their own office (lol) which is the same issue they had on the initial release. They really don't have anything to do other then the one or two people that make generic as fuck broadcasts. The CCA has no communication with the CPs, as @Gr4Ss said here.




No one really knows who the CA is. His character and broadcasts are not very memorable and he himself, like the CPs and the CCA, exercises no initiative to do or change any aspect of the city. It wouldn't surprise me if he was disconnected from the CCA as well.

Housing, Food, Work

Housing Is non-existent. Generally, people have an aspiration to acquire a house as they join a hl2rp server, or work for one and buy one with money. Citizens are relegated to the ration terminal building where they sleep in bunks. This whole bunk thing makes sense considering the theme of the beta, but acquiring an apartment should have been something to earn from the get go. What are the citizens even working for anyway? Food and Water is useless as you do not die from starvation or dehydration. I have brought this point up before, and the community managers are very keen not to introduce death by starvation on the server for one reason or another. In my opinion, it removes yet another thing to do. So citizens can't get a house, they don't need food and water, so what is their incentive to work? They have none. this lack of foresight for something so obvious is a big red flag for the actual launch of the server.

You can avoid work, not eat or drink, you can do nothing and you will survive this so called "dystopia". People NEED a drive otherwise the server will stagnate. People seem to forget the initial launch stagnated quite a bit before they had to pull the plug.

TL;DR​

Everything feels disconnected and isolated from each other. The CCA doesn't do much, the CPs are bog standard, maybe even sub-par, and patrolling is the most you'll see them do. Citizens work without incentive. Loyalism is not in. Housing is not in. Food and water is useless. Work rp for two weeks was a bad idea, but it had potential.

 

[Robert]

My version of "control" is different to the vast majority of the community's. Killing and bullying citizens isn't what I'm talking about, as I've mentioned several times. People need to stop confusing control with oppression, they are two different concepts altogether.

Fair enough.

Also, implying that we should do nothing about this problem is a shit argument.

Not implying to do nothing. But more or less saying we have to be careful which that we accept from ideas and suggestions since some can have good outcomes and others not so much. At the moment its pretty 50/50. SOme people like the CPs as they are, others do not.

Ah yes, the infamous QZ gate which is prop blocked by a giant forcefield. Damn, I guess they really do control the map.

Not really "prop blocked" considering you can RP your way over it. Which it seems some people are still stuck in old mentality of "If you can't get through it just by walking or crouching through, it is not passable." which all they need to do is do a few /me's and call an admin to get over an obstacle.

Forcefield has a bypass method that some people use and do some good RP to "jump" over it.

I'm glad to hear this, and I hope being a loyalist will be a sort of high risk, high reward status to be in. Loyalists ratting on other loyalists for example, and of course the loyalist party idea which I thought would be a nice touch. But I just hope any of this even gets in on the second launch.

Yep

The socio-stability stuff makes sense, and CPs being less aggressive under different circumstances makes sense. What my problem is, is that CPs have no direct control over citizens. I will use HL2 as a comparison. They knew where you lived, who you lived with, how many others you lived with. They knew where you were, and dispatch could probably predict where you were going to go. All this control is pretty much impossible to replicate in hl2rp, but taking some aspects of it and executing it will make the CPs feel like they have an actual presence. I'm not asking for brute force authority, it should be discreet as I've mentioned previously.

Technically they do know is via the apartment system. They can see who you are, where you live and who lives with you. On top of this, Dispatch can very easily keep track of every citizen on the map. Your CID sends a ping each time you interact with combine tech, go past a camera or so on. Not only can they find you through requests, but as long as you are marked BOL they know exactly where you are going and Dispatch can drop a waypoint on you and make a bunch of CPs chase you.

All you need to do to stop being tracked like that however is hide from cameras and maybe use someone else's CID to use rations and all sorts. This is not made in the 1984 sense either, every player has the chance to do something and move around freely without some CP coming to ruin their fun unless they are really causing up a stir or committing blatant violations in front of dispatches or another CPs eye.

In the end it is balanced.

The whole map control thing is not just about checkpoints, that's just a single but prominent aspect of it. It's about acquiring a constant stream of knowledge about the population. You need to know your people before you can begin manipulating them, and controlling different aspects of their lives. Housing, food and water, work are the biggest pieces of this. But as CPs get a bigger foot in the door, they can begin controlling more specific details about a person. I can't stress this enough, I am not asking CPs to be more aggressive. I am asking them to take the initiative, and start controlling people for the sake of control alone. That is their purpose after all. This shouldn't be too hard to understand.

Cps do control rations. CCA controls rations, economy and access. So they control the food and the money and can even take money away from your account if you are being naughty. They can control where you live if they want to and they decide how and where you get your food and drink from.

Leaving any authority to admin characters following a script goes against what RP is supposed to be. Admins can nudge things in the right direction. But you have created a world where every part of the upper-echelons of the server, and all of the decision making is being made by invisible event characters. Not even players. What is the purpose of the CCA if admins are doing their jobs for them?

This is a one-time thing for this event and this event only due to nature and the end goals. CPRD, CLC and CCA are all after the same thing. CPs and OTA are just carrying out their orders for now and vorts are being terrorists. In the main server, the CCA will be in control again with no admin event chars insight.

Without harsh consequences, there will be no drive to create a food/water economy. As it is, surviving is easy, and you can survive by doing nothing at all.

The system we got in mind, it will change that. Hunger and thirst will kill you if you do nothing about it for x amount of time with the player getting a warning telling them "You feel hungry... you should eat something... try a ration or buy some food from the local stores." as a little reminder that "Hey, if you don't want to die, you better go eat something soon."

Again I can explain the exact workings we got in mind if you want or I can dig up my discord messages on it and my forum message and show it that way. Also an option.

2. Why are cops patrolling the Restricted Zone / QZ alone? Seems a bit silly, and I’ve heard of people just instantly getting gunned down by cops tracking them down alone. Silly if you ask me.

No cops I have heard of thus far have patrolled alone. CPs so far only go in PT's if needed, but for the most part, have been told to stay out unless called upon. OTA also don't move in alone and generally wait for a squad of 3-4 before heading inside due to the dangers.

1. Don’t for the love of god immediately gun down protesters. Unless they are actively shooting or fighting cops with harmful weapons then the default should go to teargas dispersal. Infighting between citizens or minor property destruction is the same way imo. Teargas and then go in with batons. Only start shooting if they are starting to try to kill cops or something.

Yes, we already commented on CPs for this and told them what to do next time. Though in the end, it seems it was the Officer who ultimately took the shot first causing the rest of the CPs to also start shooting. The escalation protocols for riots is in place on their guide with methods of dispersal being recommending over opening fire unless it escalates so much that they need to open fire.

In the end, riots won't be gunned down all the time. It may just be a rare occasion that we spoke to CPs about afterwards.

 

[registry: brush him]

I don't like how most of these complaint threads end up becoming an argument between players and admins. That's not a good sign.

 

[AdamCF]

Is Johnny Rebel a funny mingerunner that ran off bounds; forcing the cops to chase him to knock em out?

No. Johnny rebel is a refugee in the middle of the infested zone, who didn't expect to be chased in TBC through the entire QZ by a single i5 with a USP. This has happened to me three times.

 

[Gazzpacho]

the single issue I have, besides all of your guys' text walls, is not having goddamn haircuts, even if they got accepted in suggestions
I don't really give a shit on how the Beta is, I'm gonna be worried when the official release will have fucked up RP

 

[Takyon3]

I am not going to go full 1984 on people and PK them over crimethink. CP is not thinkpol. HL2RP is not 1984-RP.

Strawman

Now if you have any more constructive criticism, let me know. But I am just starting to see you QQ'ing with zero intention for it to be constructive. Stop this needlessly hammering on making us make the server exactly like you want it to be. Nobody else is telling me I need to actually turn this into 1984.

I have been fairly constructive so far, I really don't know how I can offer more clarity to you. Also, I never asked for 1984, cease the strawmans.

 

[Takyon3]

Technically they do know is via the apartment system. They can see who you are, where you live and who lives with you. On top of this, Dispatch can very easily keep track of every citizen on the map. Your CID sends a ping each time you interact with combine tech, go past a camera or so on. Not only can they find you through requests, but as long as you are marked BOL they know exactly where you are going and Dispatch can drop a waypoint on you and make a bunch of CPs chase you.

All you need to do to stop being tracked like that however is hide from cameras and maybe use someone else's CID to use rations and all sorts. This is not made in the 1984 sense either, every player has the chance to do something and move around freely without some CP coming to ruin their fun unless they are really causing up a stir or committing blatant violations in front of dispatches or another CPs eye.

In the end it is balanced.

Okay, so you do have all these scripts which allow you to receive information about people, which is the first I'm hearing of it. Yet I feel like it's not utilized to the degrees it could be. I mean fuck, you only ever see CPs when they walk past you in pairs. They just don't seem to be doing much at all, like they're actively just wasting time on patrols when they could be *doing* something. I really don't know how else to put it, maybe it's a command problem if the CPs are so lacking in presence. They really are not a threat to be avoided.

Cps do control rations. CCA controls rations, economy and access. So they control the food and the money and can even take money away from your account if you are being naughty. They can control where you live if they want to and they decide how and where you get your food and drink from.

I have never seen any of this being utilized.

This is a one-time thing for this event and this event only due to nature and the end goals. CPRD, CLC and CCA are all after the same thing. CPs and OTA are just carrying out their orders for now and vorts are being terrorists. In the main server, the CCA will be in control again with no admin event chars insight.

This is good to know, but it was still a mistake to make the whole beta on rails in my opinion. We have Willard short stories for that kind of thing. We can't forget that admins made temporary "hitman" characters on the initial launch, to dispose of the leader of the Helvetican party or whatever it was called, because he was seizing too much power. There is clearly a problem with admins interfering with grass roots, player created rp, and I'm worried this will carry over to launch "2.0" as player-created groups become more influential within the server.

The system we got in mind, it will change that. Hunger and thirst will kill you if you do nothing about it for x amount of time with the player getting a warning telling them "You feel hungry... you should eat something... try a ration or buy some food from the local stores." as a little reminder that "Hey, if you don't want to die, you better go eat something soon."

Again I can explain the exact workings we got in mind if you want or I can dig up my discord messages on it and my forum message and show it that way. Also an option.

I've read the threads. 80 hours was the initial estimate to death. Some people don't even log that much time in some video games. It's ridiculous.

 

[AdamCF]

I have never seen any of this being utilized.

The reason it's not utilized is because there's not a reason to utilize it yet? It'd only be used if someone was marked as an anti-citizen, or a scammer. That sort of thing.

 

[Takyon3]

The reason it's not utilized is because there's not a reason to utilize it yet? It'd only be used if someone was marked as an anti-citizen, or a scammer. That sort of thing.

These kinds of tools should be used constantly. If we look at how the CPs function from a very practical point of view, and also looking at how they function in HL2, they move people around both on a large scale (relocation) and on a small scale, where people are moved from apartment to apartment in order to stamp out any talks and organization to rebel. The CPs should be trying to disorientate people in this way imo, because it shows their power in a *discreet* way, and also has a practical use.

 

[AdamCF]

These kinds of tools should be used constantly. If we look at how the CPs function from a very practical point of view, and also looking at how they function in HL2, they move people around both on a large scale (relocation) and on a small scale, where people are moved from apartment to apartment in order to stamp out any talks and organization to rebel. The CPs should be trying to disorientate people in this way imo, because it shows their power in a *discreet* way, and also has a practical use.

so youre saying the CCA should constantly be taking money out of people's cards? what

 

[Takyon3]

so youre saying the CCA should constantly be taking money out of people's cards? what

Did you even read my post?

 

[AdamCF]

Did you even read my post?

You were commenting on how the systems in place to revoke apartments and take chips from people are never used. I responded saying that there is no reason to be using that right now as we're so early into the server. Plus, I'm not gonna be happy if I wake up and 10 credits are missing from my account

 

[Takyon3]

You were commenting on how the systems in place to revoke apartments and take chips from people are never used. I responded saying that there is no reason to be using that right now as we're so early into the server.

Yes and then I replied to your reply.

 

[AdamCF]

Yes and then I replied to your reply.
View attachment 3274

then i replied to your reply with my own reply

 

[Sagsworth]

Bruh after spending days trying to get my firebomb attack authed and be able to do some cool roleplay and character dev did someone just fucking dO IT WITHOUT ME?

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

 

[Stinky Rags]

sorry your crafting's too low pleb

 

[Imperator RAD-X]

it's kind of strange to see CPs openly threatening to kill civs for walking near them, CPs running into the QZ alone, and CPs often refusing to deal with blatant violations, as well as not handing out SC (which means that being a loyalist becomes even more difficult)

That's not normal. Need unit names if you can - they're the ones we should be worried about.

 

[Sagsworth]

Since day one on the server I had this plan, to burn down some of the scaffolding and important areas to slow progress on the construction of the district. I had been collecting equipment, making contacts, getting a man for every position and Molotov that might be thrown. Throughout this process, I have spoken to seven staff members, who all directed me elsewhere and didn't want to get involved in the auth, until I finally got to @Votton who praise him, actually communicated with me. He responded to me, assured me he had no power to authorize or facilitate this but tried to talk to other staff (who didn't directly message me about it, but apparently told votton they wouldn't do it). I then went to @Imperator RAD-X who said he liked it but didn't feel confident authing it, so recommended I go to Denuke. Denuke then authed it, and after getting it approved by these three people, I tried to contact any staff member online to get this done. At the time a building as being unveiled, so it would've been a perfect time while everyone wandered off to get ready for the unveiling. Half an hour later with no response from any admin online or any of the people I'd talked to, it was over and the opportunity was missed. Afterwards, I was told that it was low population so a poor time for the event, so it didn't go through which annoyed me a bit because apparently there was enough players to build and unveil the building, but not to sabotage it.

But okay, that's fine - it was a bit quick, annoying but at least we'll be able to do it another time, right? So the next evening I try to get literally any staff online to help with this, confirming that it was approved by Rad-X and DeNuke. Again Votton was online and extremely helpful, trying to get people (who wouldn't pm be about this at all) to agree to have this happen. Unfortunately, because they didn't like the event as it was planned, they just refused and it didn't happen. Now, this pissed me off, because it had been authorized by your event lead but apparently this isn't enough for anyone on the server to lift a finger and do anything to make this happen. Two days of asking and getting little to no response later, I walk out of the server and see that all the targets I'd mentioned for the firebombing were now in flames, supposedly after an admin vortigaunt decided to throw firebombs at some buildings. (seeing this and other messages like it in the console Giving Almak Che'long a tfa_csgo_incen)

So in my mind, there were two things that could've happened here, and two versions of each of them. Either someone else had the same idea, contacted staff, received responses and was able to run the event, or some staff member had run this event by themself without players and authorizations like this. And the alternate version of these is whether or not the people involved knew I was doing it, and this is something I'm still not aware of. Either way, after going through all the ropes to try and organise this and getting nearly stonewalled every step of the way, either another player tried this and for some reason just got the greenlight, or an admin just decided to do this and I got completely cut off from the event I had been planning. I have avoided talking about this stuff publicly to avoid metagame, because my group and I are all citizens who live amongst the population while plotting these kinds of attacks, and complaining about this means everyone OOCly knows that these characters are rebels, which leads to a huge amount of meta. But this is beyond parody at this point and I don't really see what else I'm meant to do. So please for the love of fucking God talk to me, tell me what happened and please let's sort this out.

edit: update, it seems that a player going through the proper channels gets nothing done in days, but a trial admin just deciding to do something because lolwhynot is totally cool and fine!

 

[Kappatalist]

-snip-

This isn't great, not only because it in and of itself is wrong but this was complained about in the previous launch about how certain groups were getting bias or how admins would do something out of the reach of an ordinary player for seemingly no reason. We should be seeing a change in this regard, but judging by this example it just isn't happening and that's simply disheartening to see.

 

[Equinox]

Since day one on the server I had this plan, to burn down some of the scaffolding and important areas to slow progress on the construction of the district. I had been collecting equipment, making contacts, getting a man for every position and Molotov that might be thrown. Throughout this process, I have spoken to seven staff members, who all directed me elsewhere and didn't want to get involved in the auth, until I finally got to @Votton who praise him, actually communicated with me. He responded to me, assured me he had no power to authorize or facilitate this but tried to talk to other staff (who didn't directly message me about it, but apparently told votton they wouldn't do it). I then went to @Imperator RAD-X who said he liked it but didn't feel confident authing it, so recommended I go to Denuke. Denuke then authed it, and after getting it approved by these three people, I tried to contact any staff member online to get this done. At the time a building as being unveiled, so it would've been a perfect time while everyone wandered off to get ready for the unveiling. Half an hour later with no response from any admin online or any of the people I'd talked to, it was over and the opportunity was missed. Afterwards, I was told that it was low population so a poor time for the event, so it didn't go through which annoyed me a bit because apparently there was enough players to build and unveil the building, but not to sabotage it.

But okay, that's fine - it was a bit quick, annoying but at least we'll be able to do it another time, right? So the next evening I try to get literally any staff online to help with this, confirming that it was approved by Rad-X and DeNuke. Again Votton was online and extremely helpful, trying to get people (who wouldn't pm be about this at all) to agree to have this happen. Unfortunately, because they didn't like the event as it was planned, they just refused and it didn't happen. Now, this pissed me off, because it had been authorized by your event lead but apparently this isn't enough for anyone on the server to lift a finger and do anything to make this happen. Two days of asking and getting little to no response later, I walk out of the server and see that all the targets I'd mentioned for the firebombing were now in flames, supposedly after an admin vortigaunt decided to throw firebombs at some buildings. (seeing this and other messages like it in the console Giving Almak Che'long a tfa_csgo_incen)

So in my mind, there were two things that could've happened here, and two versions of each of them. Either someone else had the same idea, contacted staff, received responses and was able to run the event, or some staff member had run this event by themself without players and authorizations like this. And the alternate version of these is whether or not the people involved knew I was doing it, and this is something I'm still not aware of. Either way, after going through all the ropes to try and organise this and getting nearly stonewalled every step of the way, either another player tried this and for some reason just got the greenlight, or an admin just decided to do this and I got completely cut off from the event I had been planning. I have avoided talking about this stuff publicly to avoid metagame, because my group and I are all citizens who live amongst the population while plotting these kinds of attacks, and complaining about this means everyone OOCly knows that these characters are rebels, which leads to a huge amount of meta. But this is beyond parody at this point and I don't really see what else I'm meant to do. So please for the love of fucking God talk to me, tell me what happened and please let's sort this out.

edit: update, it seems that a player going through the proper channels gets nothing done in days, but a trial admin just deciding to do something because lolwhynot is totally cool and fine!

View attachment 3276

View attachment 3277

consider that it wasn't literally my character setting fire to anything on the first or second day. We actually went through a random player and had them do it. As for so much effort to get one thing to happen, I find it kind of odd. Freedom of Roleplay was meant to guarantee that someone could just do something, and staff would accomodate that by making it happen then and there.

If staff can't accomodate for players, then why even push "Freedom of Roleplay" anyways? If it's because "This is a beta event and not the actual server", then why the fuck are we running this "beta" when it's so different from the main server that it doesn't matter?

 

[Imperator RAD-X]

Yes

Yeah'p, I OK'd him and said to go speak to DeNuke to get final auth and he was prepping from that point onward with the successful auth. The last time someone did it, it was done with nothing short of a lighter and a couple of other flammable things to make the CWU HQ go bonfire days ago. Sagsworth is 100% correct, and I'm saddened to see this just /had/ to be the outcome.

And yes; I've got my bois to read this.

L E T T H E S P I C E F L O W.

It's just really demotivating when you plan it and you're waiting just for someone else to take the glory which could have been one of the pinnacle turning points in Beta.