Deagant's Hot Concept - MAA GMP & Others (brainstorming shitpost/not an official request)

[Deagantio]

Logistics time, baby.​

Deagant's new schizoid brainstorm idea - Give the MAA a new technicality system for what it can or can't afford, given that it lacks the same funding as CP and OTA. Instead of its faction lead petitioning to Administration for each and every shipment/item they're allowed to bring, allow Administration the means to create a new monetary system for the volunteer mercenary outfit.

What do I mean by this? I propose a GMP-like credit system to:

>Purchase their equipment

>Transfer an -allowed- portion of their earnings into Credits to pay the group's members following expeditions

>Request 'unlocks' of more equipment. Think a system similar to MGSV R&D but instead of research and development it's basically administration bickering on whether or not the shitty mercenary group has 'earned' RPGs, NATO gear, and helicopters.

(Determine what kinds of expeditions the group can go on based entirely on whether or not they can afford it. For example, it'd be very expensive for them to go to Greenland - meaning they would have to request and complete more 'local' expeditions to build up the reputation and funding required to go on bigger endeavors. AKA, don't send the one-victory division into London monkaS)

>Recruit members

GPC - Gross Performance Credit - would be allocated in different 'tiered' packages based on the MAA's performance during their deployments. Have everything cost GPC, from outfits to food, training, insertion/exfiltration costs, communications support, etc. At the end of each deployment, they're able to liquidate an administration-allotted amount of their allocation package GPC into credits to issue pay to MAA soldiers at their leaders' discretion.

This sounds more complicated than what it is. So here's a decent-enough breakdown.​

>Minor Outland Alpine deployment. Aerial insertion VIA a shitty old helicopter (or dropship, if you insist) gets them closer to their target but is more taxing GPC-wise. Arriving by ground, however, is far cheaper but brings its own obvious dangers as the group has to walk on foot.
>8 members, 8 uniforms. 8 AK-47s, some medical supplies, food, water, radio communications. 16-32 ammo boxes. Perhaps a vehicle if top brass is feeling generous with the group's funding. Combat knives.
>Exfiltration costs. How are they going to get out? If it's aerial exfiltration, that's expensive. If it's driving out, that's also expensive since there are not a lot of gas stations in the outlands.

Civil Administration determines the cost of the equipment and services allocated to the MAA for use in their deployments.

However, should the MAA have suffered casualties or significant losses, their allocations may receive some deductions.

>Member fatalities would cost the group 100 GPC if the member was a recruit, but an additional 100 GPC for every rank above recruit that member held.
>Member injuries (ones that prohibit duty) would cost 50 GPC.

T1 Allocation Package - +500 GPC - Outland Infrastructural Repairs, Hazardous Environment Cleanup, Battlefield Cleanup, Outland Infestation Control​

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T2 Allocation Package - +1,000 GPC - Outland Disturbance Investigations, Convoy Protection/Escort Deployments, Foreign Division Augmentation(24th in Short Stories)

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T3 Allocation Package - +1,500 GPC - Prolonged Campaign, Stabilization Augmentation (uprising suppression in failing sectors)​

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T4 Allocation Package - +2,000 GPC - Asset Recovery, Hostage Rescue, Critical Defensive/Offensive Operations​

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T5 Allocation Package - +2,500 GPC - Vital Asset Recovery, Priority Target Elimination (or capture), Priority Hostage Rescue, Critical Overwatch Augmentation (important short story involvement. Probably won't happen unless the MAA have built themselves a strong reputation or a lower-paying deployment experiences a sudden development.)​

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At the same time - certain objectives can revolve around acquiring enemy equipment, personnel, or information. These successes may be added up, recorded, and reported to Civil Administration for 'Bonus' Allocations. Such as -

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Establishment of a Forward Operating Base - +100 GPC
Establishment of Communications Support (Towers) - +50 GPC
Establishment of Logistical Support (Vehicle Routes/Supply Lines) - +100 GPC
Acquisition of Local Resources (Harvesting for food or crafting supplies - +50 GPC​

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Infection Extermination - +50 GPC​

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Destroying Enemy Equipment (Communications, artillery, vehicles) - +50 GPC
Capturing Enemy Equipment (Guns, emplacements, artillery, food/medical stocks, vehicles) - +100 GPC​

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'Suppression' of Enemy Combatants - +50 GPC (each)
Capture of Enemy Combatants for Penal Conscription - +100 GPC (each)​

Interception of Enemy Intel - +50 GPC
Successful Interrogation of Prisoners - +100 GPC​

Service Detail (In case we encounter refugees or locals we want to put to work) - +50 GPC
Witness Sterilization (in case we ever do anything requiring that) - +100 GPC​

Target Elimination - +500 GPC
Target Capture - +1,000 GPC​

What would possibly be required?
Well, an OOC spreadsheet on what the MAA realistically needs in terms of services and equipment - adjusted by CCA to set its costs accordingly. Along with an active-kept spreadsheet on the MAA's current acquisitions and supplies. A stock spreadsheet of gear that the MAA has access to, and what it brings with them. This would be the most pain-in-the-ass part. The Logistics Corps exists for a reason, though. AKA we'd just have to make a Google Doc and update it when needed.

In addition, should the MAA become 'too' well equipped - we can quickly fix that sending our resources and firepower to 'other divisions'. In return, we may receive surprise shipments from these 'other divisions' - a crate of vodka, for example.

Lead members would have to keep track of what's happening on the battlefield. Our supplies now have a price tag. However - outside of what is set in stone based on what equipment they physically bring back, much of the battlefield's events would be lost in the fog of war. Leading to... Opportunities for exploitation.

After all, who is to say that civilian wasn't an enemy combatant?

Who is to say the intel discussed by some soldiers, overheard by some passing refugee in a war-torn city, wouldn't have fallen into enemy hands? Witness Sterilization was required, and such services for the Combine don't come cheap.

It would also require more expeditions, and more 'kinds' of expeditions. I provided some basic ideas in the tier packages. Ideally the field is loaded with resources any party can use - encouraging scavenging. For a lot of the 'low end' deployments, I recommend NPCs on a barebones experience just for the group to have things to do/ a way to earn income.

These deployments can quickly turn into a good RP session if the Expedition Team wants to invite and add some Non-MAA chars or use it to experiment with some event ideas. After all, what do you do if you're out in the Outlands and The Fog comes? Go wild with it, give the soldiers shit to talk about.

Deagant what the fuck are you talking about?

More adequately. How would this improve the faction concept?
​

Two ways.

1.) It gives the 24th a means to grow its mutually grow its reputation along with its capability.
2.) It allows the 24th to fail.
3.) It gives the group goals to work towards.

Primarily leaning towards #1.

In my eyes, a lot of the group's main 'issues' come from it being more supported than it has any business being. Do I think the 24th should have fought in the Egypt campaign with BB-guns? No, because that'd make me look like a fucking psycho since I didn't attend.

I think a lot of the IC and OOC bias against the concept itself stems from it having more than it's earned. The group can't build its reputation organically because the reputation has already been decided for it - despite being one of the more open citizen groups, it feels static. Making it jarring to those unfamiliar with the idea. Not to say the group shouldn't have tanks, but tanks should be a goal to work towards rather than a position to work from.
​

Adding a technicality system like this based entirely on the scrutiny the group already faces is a great way to incentivize members into draft and proposing expeditions to the team. Really, the only thing the group 'needs' is - well, jobs. And monetary pressure is the best incentivization to start 'looking' for work.

Also deployment mentality would go from 'kill. all. hostiles' to the Serbian conscript mindset of confused indecision on whether or not to steal your washing machine or plant a landmine in it. Which would be really funny.

I have this bad habit of having opinions on things I apparently shouldn't have opinions on. So this is nothing more than a brainstorm thing to help promote ideas on how to improve things. Apparently that's the foundation of any healthy community idfk. Let me know what you think of this concept.

I'm just a rat.

This is definitely not an idea to pave the way for the Rise of the Logistics Corps for it to secede from the Union after taking all of its money. Okay so maybe it is...

 

[RedHotGinger]

Personal Opinion:

MAA as a faction just does not work. The amount of headaches that have been suffered and months that have gone by just trying to get this faction functional, let alone good, is quite telling of just how busted a concept it is from the gate.

This is an outland faction trying to have a heavy, or at the very least consistent, presence within a HL2RP city setting. It is the equivalent of trying to build a snowman on the magma core of a volcano. It's burned to vapor each and every time.

As the lead of every expedition we have have since the rework, they are complex to run in of themselves. The setup for them takes roughly two weeks, unless it is something very, very small. Aside from that, you are also trying to add a further layer of complexity by adding this whole logistics element to the formula which doesn't really solve the core issues of this 'faction'

1. It provides zero benefit to the City, and thus no benefit to the general RP of the server
2. It requires constant admin attention to function in any respect - having no ability to actually exist within Willard without this.
3. Can rarely be given such attention as its either directed to more important things, or just simply not viable to spend so much time on.


Frankly, I just think the faction needs to be converted into a reserve force. Civilians of any kind can sign up for event expeditions and maybe a few characters are authed to be high ranked MAA members who can request ops from the CT. Other than that they simply live amidst everyone else, with the only special thing about them, being that they may carry some war stories and possibly a mark on their datafile. There is no expectation for special treatment either IC or OOC.

Which is another problem with how people are treating the MAA. It's not some official military, or highly respected organization. The rewards are minimal and the respect is subjective. MAA is the lowest rung of the entire Combine martial sector on Earth and as a result, very little actually changed for them vs a normal citizen.

I don't have the greatest insight to all the MAA stuff, but this is how I see it as of now.

 

[CristoNath]

Average MAA member theme

 

[Deagantio]

Average MAA member theme

Accurate

 

[Deagantio]

This comment sort of tells me that you didn't read my proposition.

This is an outland faction trying to have a heavy, or at the very least consistent, presence within a HL2RP city setting. It is the equivalent of trying to build a snowman on the magma core of a volcano. It's burned to vapor each and every time.

Never did I mention there should be any sort of presence within the city outside of collaborating with Civil Administration. I disagree with the members that push for this.

1. It provides zero benefit to the City, and thus no benefit to the general RP of the server
2. It requires constant admin attention to function in any respect - having no ability to actually exist within Willard without this.
3. Can rarely be given such attention as its either directed to more important things, or just simply not viable to spend so much time on.

Going to have to disagree with your points. Given that I see a lot of potential for it, not in City RP but in a way for characters to participate in expeditions and short stories without having to remain neutral bystanders or rebels.

Like you said, and I will agree with - it's a concept more than a faction. But just because its implementation has been rocky doesn't mean it can't be improved. Like any avenue, it gives players stories to experience and develop their characters. If that's not good for the server, I don't know what is.

In addition, #2 doesn't really apply unless you bar any chances for the group to coordinate with the Creative Team. Expectations have to be laid out on both sides. It doesn't have to exist on the main server, but its expeditions have to carry some consequence on the organization as a whole. If not, there's little point.

And for #3, this is merely an argument I will have to make for another time. But I'll compress it by stating that the Creative Team's work - while good in creating lore - falls short of actually engaging players and vice versa.

In the end, the only thing that truly matters is player experience. If the MAA can become an avenue to better the enjoyment of our players, then it's a concept we need to look into. If we're going to stick to the city factions and storylines, they have to have just as much engagement in the community.

Also we both want the same thing

Which is another problem with how people are treating the MAA. It's not some official military, or highly respected organization. The rewards are minimal and the respect is subjective. MAA is the lowest rung of the entire Combine martial sector on Earth and as a result, very little actually changed for them vs a normal citizen.

The group shouldn't be a military, it should be a volunteer mercenary outfit.

 

[Banana]

You're an interesting meme with delicious ideas.

 

[Banana Face]

>Recruit members

Really appreciate this point. Should be added. But in all seriousness, when I was playing on the server (typed "was" because I went on a little break from the server) I tried to join MAA but with no luck. At the start everyone told me different things. Literally, day after day I tried to ask someone about MAA but nobody knew what's going on inside! I asked one person, they told me they're not recruiting now, asked another one they told me that they're 100% recruiting and you should just ask another person and so on and so on! Only after one or two weeks they made up their minds and said something like "Uh.. yeah, yeah. Maybe not necessary now but in a not far future" or something like that! I don't know, it might have went little bit different but that's how it looked from my perspective.

 

[Ruairidh]

Just make an outlands server for MAA and rebels/anticitiznes

 

[ShadoWiz4rd]

Just make an outlands server for MAA and rebels/anticitiznes

We had one. Once.

 

[ShadoWiz4rd]

The group shouldn't be a military, it should be a volunteer mercenary outfit.

Yes it should it's a fucking Milita. And falls under command of Overwatch Forces Umbrella like CP/OTA do. We're not gonna larp as Diamond dogs, We're not anarchist rebels with an off-shore oil rig or some bunker with a fleet of choppers. We're a Reserve Milita.


That all being said, It would be nice for us to acquire better more modern/NATO Weaponry like M4's instead of AK74's. Maybe an RPK. But if the state won't give us them we'll just procure on site as available not an issue.

 

[The_Grass_Man]

This comment sort of tells me that you didn't read my proposition.


Never did I mention there should be any sort of presence within the city outside of collaborating with Civil Administration. I disagree with the members that push for this.



Going to have to disagree with your points. Given that I see a lot of potential for it, not in City RP but in a way for characters to participate in expeditions and short stories without having to remain neutral bystanders or rebels.

Like you said, and I will agree with - it's a concept more than a faction. But just because its implementation has been rocky doesn't mean it can't be improved. Like any avenue, it gives players stories to experience and develop their characters. If that's not good for the server, I don't know what is.

In addition, #2 doesn't really apply unless you bar any chances for the group to coordinate with the Creative Team. Expectations have to be laid out on both sides. It doesn't have to exist on the main server, but its expeditions have to carry some consequence on the organization as a whole. If not, there's little point.

And for #3, this is merely an argument I will have to make for another time. But I'll compress it by stating that the Creative Team's work - while good in creating lore - falls short of actually engaging players and vice versa.

In the end, the only thing that truly matters is player experience. If the MAA can become an avenue to better the enjoyment of our players, then it's a concept we need to look into. If we're going to stick to the city factions and storylines, they have to have just as much engagement in the community.

Also we both want the same thing

The group shouldn't be a military, it should be a volunteer mercenary outfit.

SLAAYYYYYY

 

[Ruairidh]

B

We had one. Once.

I hope that shit gets brought back, could be some really nice RP that goes on there and better yet an easier place to find rebels and hide out

 

[John Rico]

I feel like this adds too much complexity to a faction that's not even important enough to warrant this kind of effort from the CT. In the end, the more complicated you want to make an event mechanically, the more it will be half-assed, because I sure as hell wouldn't want to keep track of all this on top of preparing the expedition.

If the CT is divided on whether the MAA should exist in the first place, I don't see how this would fix the issue. The bad rep came when we were active soldiers in-server and the only thing that came out of that opportunity was a retarded amount of tomfuckery from most members involved, I doubt any amount of off-server events would change the opinion most people have about the faction.

 

[Ruairidh]

I feel like this adds too much complexity to a faction that's not even important enough to warrant this kind of effort from the CT. In the end, the more complicated you want to make an event mechanically, the more it will be half-assed, because I sure as hell wouldn't want to keep track of all this on top of preparing the expedition.

I feel like I am not really understanding this? Are you saying you dont want the faction to be complicated because the event team might not give enough of a shit to make an event good?

 

[Deagantio]

I feel like this adds too much complexity to a faction that's not even important enough to warrant this kind of effort from the CT. In the end, the more complicated you want to make an event mechanically, the more it will be half-assed, because I sure as hell wouldn't want to keep track of all this on top of preparing the expedition.

If the CT is divided on whether the MAA should exist in the first place, I don't see how this would fix the issue. The bad rep came when we were active soldiers in-server and the only thing that came out of that opportunity was a retarded amount of tomfuckery from most members involved, I doubt any amount of off-server events would change the opinion most people have about the faction.

Yeah, that's sort of the biggest issue here. Hell, the MAA is such a controversial concept, let alone topic, that it can't even agree on what it is let alone what it wants to be.

This level of commitment would mean a shit ton of collaboration from the Creative Team considering the CT ever acknowledges it as a source of potential. IMO, the CT has their priorities skewed, but in the end of the day it's entirely their choice on whether or not to flesh it out.

 

[RedHotGinger]

This comment sort of tells me that you didn't read my proposition.

I did. Problem is your proposition comes in the face of a faction that is marred with constant problems and frankly doesn't even 'exist' in practical terms.

Never did I mention there should be any sort of presence within the city outside of collaborating with Civil Administration. I disagree with the members that push for this.

This is kinda the whole issue with the concept itself, as I said. you are asking for tons of effort to be diverted to a faction that has not only provided very little benefit to the server as a whole, but is one of the very few faction to have actively hindered it in some respects. The only time the MAA was good was when it was first introduced as a temporary event faction leading up to the C2 event. I have no idea why it spiraled out of control from that, but here we are.

The problem is not you wanting one thing or the other. The problem is that regardless what you want, the faction you are trying to garner support for is completely detached and pointless when compared to literally any other. MAA could have one event run for it per week and it would carry absolutely zero effect on the city itself. Thus making it a pointless endeavor to begin with.

it's a concept more than a faction.

Its been a concept for over four months at this point.

#2 doesn't really apply unless you bar any chances for the group to coordinate with the Creative Team.

Given the main thing MAA begs for is events and general attention from 'staff' CT is included into this point. Without the CT or admins constantly there to spoonfeed something or another to the faction in particular, it has nothing to do in relation to Willard. The last faction like this was the CRU, and that was discontinued a long time ago. Difference is, CRU was not even as bad, as they could exist within the city, but were ultimately ruined by the fact endless generic events needed to be summoned just to give them enough to do. MAA doesn't even have that luxury. They don't even have a presence in the city - nor should they.

the Creative Team's work - while good in creating lore - falls short of actually engaging players and vice versa.

If this is the case, why on earth would it be best for the CT to waste tons of time and energy trying to jumpstart a concept that is four months or more without any solid benefit or boon to the server as a whole?


MAA will simply never work as some official faction as far as I can tell. Even if it could, people just sound completely tired of it at this point, as it has just been in limbo for so long. MAA should simply be a list of citizens who are considered in reserve and can be eligible for going on expeditions that are requested the same as any one else does. If it gets accepted, have a IC training period or something during the setup phase. Best RP'ers get selected out of the bunch by two event officers or whatever, and then MAA buggers off until next time. Something very simple and very passive.

MAA should simply and only be a faction designed to allow loyalists/Civs the chance to go on expeditions and events. Nothing more, nothing less. No extra servers. No custom rules. No unique bases. No logistics additives. Just a lore based justification overseen by some two people who can organize minor events when relevant.

(Btw, again, just my own thoughts.)

 

[Deagantio]

(Btw, again, just my own thoughts.)

Ultimately I understand your argument. But I'm afraid the genie is already out of the bottle when it comes to player expectations regarding the faction.

Putting the proposition I made aside to talk about the group as a whole. Since the discussion sort of derailed for all involved.

I think we want the same thing from the MAA - a grounded vehicle for players to enter and engage with on expeditions.

In the base form that we see now it offers no benefit to the main server - though IMO, It brings as much benefit as its allowed to provide to the playerbase, if and as a form of actually participating in, drafting, and proposing expeditions for folks to go on. That is assuming it ever has expeditions to engage in. Meanwhile, its players clearly want to interact with it further to provide some level of significance to their characters participation. I think a compromise is doable. Perhaps in the form of a shitty monetary system, perhaps from something else.

Hell, the MAA members aren't even paid after events.

In my eyes, the group just needs to be experimented with more while being given more expeditions to go on. Because ultimately this is a non-argument when approaching the topic of a proposed direction:

why on earth would it be best for the CT to waste tons of time and energy trying to jumpstart a concept that is four months or more without any solid benefit or boon to the server as a whole?

Since the current direction it's going now only brings frustration for all involved.

I'm not trying to justify the MAA's existence as it stands right now.
Most of its players suffer from high-functioning retarded, and I'm merely the chaos goblin that sees some value in what can be salvaged from what looks to be a worsening situation for all involved. There's very little justification that can be made.
It's a group that relies on the sole mercy of the Creative Team and staff due to its lack of any autonomy let alone the little to no concessions made for it.

While at the same time, players who have engaged with the concept overwhelmingly want more to see more than a McGuffin plot excuse to shovel them into the Short Stories server once every one or two months. Hence the autismo-drama that is the discord's MAA chat.

As it stands right now, without any sort of proposed rework or expansion - if you wanted my personal opinion, I would say the MAA should be aborted as a player opportunity in its entirety because the Creative Team is currently not able to accommodate it. Since it implies that expeditions and short stories are frequent enough to actually warrant an actual organized community group to begin with.

But that's my own personal viewpoint due to the OOC frustration and drama that circulates the concept and that seems to get worse before it gets better. I just want to see something done.

Also

No logistics additives.

Also fuck you, William Brown Logistics Co is purely a private proprietorship with no relation to the Militant Arm Arteria or the Combine Overwatch.

 

[Landon]

Yes it should it's a fucking Milita. And falls under command of Overwatch Forces Umbrella like CP/OTA do. We're not gonna larp as Diamond dogs, We're not anarchist rebels with an off-shore oil rig or some bunker with a fleet of choppers. We're a Reserve Milita.


That all being said, It would be nice for us to acquire better more modern/NATO Weaponry like M4's instead of AK74's. Maybe an RPK. But if the state won't give us them we'll just procure on site as available not an issue.

Disagree. I do not believe MAA should be a military in any sort of form. That's what OTA are for. MAA should, as all factions (except for OTA), be citizens in suits. MAA fits more of the bill as, said before, a rag-tag group of mercenaries than a military. They're all cannon fodder sent out on missions not important enough for OTA to step in. Why give expensive weapons like M4s to men that are expected to die? MAA should be handed leftovers.

 

[John Rico]

I feel like I am not really understanding this? Are you saying you dont want the faction to be complicated because the event team might not give enough of a shit to make an event good?

No, it wouldn't be a case of the CT not giving a shit, it would be a case of being physically unable to properly run the event. I produced events elsewhere, and I know first-hand how easy is to get burnt out doing this, even more easily in the case of these player-tailored expeditions.

Also, wording it like that is kinda silly, the MAA is not the victim here, the CT doesn't hate the faction, the MAA committed reputational suicide back when we were given the opportunity to be a full-time faction in the city. It's actually surprising that staff allowed the faction to continue existing after that, yet some members are still complaining??

Disagree. I do not believe MAA should be a military in any sort of form. That's what OTA are for. MAA should, as all factions (except for OTA), be citizens in suits. MAA fits more of the bill as, said before, a rag-tag group of mercenaries than a military. They're all cannon fodder sent out on missions not important enough for OTA to step in. Why give expensive weapons like M4s to men that are expected to die? MAA should be handed leftovers.

This should also be another point of discussion, because currently, as a concept, the MAA kinda has an identity crisis. The current roster wants the faction to work as a group of loyalists trying to be professional soldiers, while the CT has clearly favored the original conscript concept of a ragtag group of bums picked up from the streets and given basic training and gear. The mix of both visions of the conscripts makes for a really bad faction to engage your character in.

The MAA loyalist company only makes sense if it's just a list of citizens willing to take up arms in cases of emergency, for any sort of expedition outside the city? That doesn't quite make sense. That sounds more like you would want to send the actual conscripts, which we are not.

 

[Merlinsclaw]

here's my take on it:

The MAA as a concept isn't bad. As others have said, and in line with other things, Civil Protection handle cities, OTA are the elite squads, and MMA? They are fighting the wars, massive battles, and things along those lines.

However, the MMA hasn't been under the best leadership and has been without direction. The City 2 arc was a bit of a gamerfest and after that the MMA had little to no leadership and basically, as others said, committed reputational suicide.

However, I also don't think the MMA has much of a purpose on this map. If there were an Outlands portion of the map, it could make more sense.

My thinking is that the MMA could be useful for certain storybeats. Say, a megaevent where the entire City gets conscripted. But, alas, this City and Map just isn't it.

If you ask me, it should just be used for storybeats and the system could be developed from there. If CT has something to do, do it, otherwise don't have cringe MMA guys running around the City and all of that.