Ultima Abuse Report

[ultima]

I want to quickly add on to the fact that I never accused you of any ill intentions or ever said that you were abusing noclip. I simply told you to get out of it and roleplay which you refused to for upwards of 10 minutes, after which I took action.

 

[Divine]

This does not fix the point that I still would’ve responded aggressively, or escaped with Relja the moment of sweep. As pite said, he learned about the sweep ICly and told Nam that it was happening, if I wasn’t in observer looking for the pistol, I would’ve heard that and called the vortigaunts over the radio or escape the camp.

Thus I still support my claims of bad faith from ultima against me.

Right, you were distracted and pite ran off. Would you have responded aggressively? Perhaps, but I feel the 6 armed cops (half with guns larger than pistols) would’ve taken you down regardless of your Kevlar. Weapon raise time for your OTAR is what, 3-4 seconds? Especially since you didn’t have it out. I’m not going to go into semantics or mathematical equations, but you responding aggressively would not have saved you before you could radio for help in that scenario.

 

[Divine]

The point of the report is entirely missed in this paragraph you wrote. Its not really an issue that the sweep was for HIM, but the fact that ultima didnt even want to rewind back and the possibility of someone giving false information to Rad-x.

The entire sweep and Ultima's attitude on it was just scuffed overall and did more wrong than good. The issue here is them charbanning curbalas because they refused to take an unfair PK.

Why were they on observer? Dealing with a bug that happened then and there, he was not even aware nor given a crime timer by the GM with the crystal. Mind you that even after exploding and bombing things in other maps and other situations in the sewers, the sweeps dont happen 100% of the time.

1. He made a point, whether a question or concern, and I explained it.

2. It wasn’t really unfair, he was caught off guard in a 1v6.

3. He shouldn’t have been trying to get the weapon himself. Was he aware of the cops? No, that’s kind of the entire point of being quiet. He should have waited for other GMs, or asked considering he had only just finished that massive fight.

 

[Curbalas]

In my opinion, it should just boil down to a mistake with the same consequences applying.

There is simply no way of the same consequences happening, whether I never entered observer during the sweep, or if there was a rewind. My character would’ve survived that no matter what, I both had rebel allies and vortigaunt allies waiting for me to radio in for anything. As pite said he would’ve given me the information that a sweep was happening, thus removing the surprise effect.

If the rewind happened, it would've given you the advantage with the ooc knowledge of CPs inbound.

I would’ve had IC information given by Relja, so it wouldn’t be information gained through OOC ways, but ICly.

I don't see this being in bad faith on Ultima's side, more than a lack of understanding and communication.

I disagree, it is clear that ultima had multiple incidents in the past about having ill-intentions against rebels OOCly, everyone knows about that. This was another example happening, but to me.

However, I'll add onto the point that given the recent circumstances of you firing, you shouldn't have been in observer.

It was supposed to be a fast observer entrance, which is quite normal. I would’ve entered it, looked for the pistol, gave it back and return to IC. I was all-okay with a rewind but, ultima with their ill-intentions wanted me to get PK’d in this situation. Which wouldn’t have happened either I never entered no-clip, or had a rewind nonetheless.

 

[Tuki]

1. He made a point, whether a question or concern, and I explained it.

2. It wasn’t really unfair, he was caught off guard in a 1v6.

3. He shouldn’t have been trying to get the weapon himself. Was he aware of the cops? No, that’s kind of the entire point of being quiet. He should have waited for other GMs, or asked considering he had only just finished that massive fight.

1- Fair enough

2- It is an unfair treatment, as as soon as a gunshot was heard half of the sewer populace would start moving, including me, Pite, Stanford and probably a few others. The fact it was all done in FTB is the unfair and scummy part of this whole situation.

3- Tickets take too long, more than half of the time GMs are told that if its things like that? Simple and easy that they should do them themselves, there is no real need to call for someone else.

And the fact that you people deny the possibility of a rewind is absurd, no one is asking for them to be at the start of the sewers, just a few steps back and have Ultima oversee thst they dont do no bad faith things.

He could've sprinted off, throw an incen down to cover his escape, radio'd as he was getting shot. A lot could have happened and yet they were just charbanned off screen which is the issue. If ultima didnt act in such a way in GM chat and actually got his point across and didnt make it seem so unfair (Just by giving curbalas a 5 second rewind???) He maybe would have accepted and it would have been a fair fight.

 

[Curbalas]

1. He made a point, whether a question or concern, and I explained it.

2. It wasn’t really unfair, he was caught off guard in a 1v6.

3. He shouldn’t have been trying to get the weapon himself. Was he aware of the cops? No, that’s kind of the entire point of being quiet. He should have waited for other GMs, or asked considering he had only just finished that massive fight.

Firstly, it wouldn’t be a 1v6, I would both have Nam with me, with a WPM of 110 per seconds I would’ve immediately said “help, refugee” in radio and calls vortigaunts to me. So it is quite false.

For the third problem, it was impossible for me to know there was a sweep going on, another person that was in the firefight had disconnected priorly, who has shot the same amount as me. Nothing was done to him, so I thought there couldn’t be a sweep going on. These kinds of bugs happen all the time in the server, thus why I entered observer mode with no malicious intent.

This is a clear example of bad faith and PK hungriness. Nothing can otherwise say that, everyone knows that.

 

[nath1234567]

The cops didn't run when in a rebel zone so you wouldn't have heard them in the first place, my character specifically enacted a code of silence while we were there, in case of a rewind the whole surprise effect that we managed to achieve would've been ruined

And yet Relja Terzic, who was standing right next to Curb and Nam, was able to hear the sweep, warn the others and make his own escape. He would have had the IC information from Relja if not for the OOC circumstances that you all are trying to get him killed for.

I can't believe staff are advocating for an immersion breaking exit from noclip directly into a certain death RP scenario. Coincedentally most everyone saying that the death is fair is a Combine/loyalist main, hmmmm.

 

[Taliazure]

You lot had been firing constantly underground for ten minutes, and it attracted attention for every

So cps sweeped because they heard gunshots that would be impossible to hear. They heard shots through the whatever miles of pavements would icly be there between them and the rebels in the sewers firing and they went and sweeped in?

Then by that case the sweep shouldn't even happened.
So the sweep for curbalas is I'm sorry not even valid given it's impossible they heard him through the floor.


And Secondly for muffin, Curbalas did not commit any crime, he didn't engage any civil protection, he didn't engage any ota, therefore he could leave the game if he wanted, he fired his weapon in a safe location where no one would ever hear his gunfire.

So curbalas was fine entering observer to fix the issue at hand.

 

[Curbalas]

I want to quickly add on to the fact that I never accused you of any ill intentions or ever said that you were abusing noclip. I simply told you to get out of it and roleplay which you refused to for upwards of 10 minutes, after which I took action.

“Roleplay” in the question is me getting killed with no chance of responding to the situation. I quite felt that I was being accused of such situation because of the language that was being used towards me. Which I still think like that to this time.

 

[Imperator RAD-X]

Right, hi.

I'll put my response down for clarification's sake. The response is not here to make anyone happy, and I won't be using someone's previous reports as a means to suggest wrongdoing on this circumstances, consequential by the reported or the reportee.

The shooting that occurred in the slums was definitely aimed at that particular group, showcased by videos where the Civil Protection are slowly making their way toward the refugee zone. What ever lead up to that would have constituted an inevitable outcome where Curbalas et al will have needed to get in character.

One of the most important pieces of this discussion is what Gutsy said here;

But yeah, a GM making sure that they dropped rewards is not a refund.

and as Curbalas said himself

this situation is NOT a refund situation

So idling that off to the side - Civil Protection was clearly after some people. Whether you were OOC or IC during that moment in time, ultimately you should have been in-character. Curbalas said so himself to me that he should have been in-character. It's why we state to people that if you are doing a ticket or sorting something out, get someone else to do it because the demands of eight / nine players or more in that situation constitute further importance than a phased pistol.

The whole point of this debate / report or what ever one wants to call it is "Should you have been IC during this time?" - The answer is obviously yes.

Now, the gunshots you will definitely be able to hear - there's enough openings in the sewers where gunfire travels and for a solid ten minutes as Divine stated, obviously you'll hear them. I can hear the gunfire from the Den quite often, and I'm sure if anything happened in the Den people would have been running and gunning if there was gunfire erupting there too from the inside.

I don't care what anyone's side is and I don't care what faction anyone plays. But if a sweep is coming and you don't want to enter out of noclip when you were already there in-character, the pistol could have just been abandoned and collected later after the character made an escape or something. It's not rocket science for me to deduce that as someone in an administrative position.

Seems to me Ultima was very direct in this case, and some negotiation / discussion could have emancipated the situation but if there's multiple people calling for the continuation of in-character circumstances for ten minutes without reversing it because, yes, I can see where people will get frustrated that the sudden ambush advantage was lost from the CPs side.

...

Onto the main reasons why we're here, were these rules broken?


Yes - one side refused to cooperate and the other side enacted an escalation clause. Ten minutes of arguing could have been solved and a reversal could have initiated. Could ultima have actually said it differently? Probably, but there's other people here saying their time was wasted and I don't really blame ultima for making the decision in the end. The administrator's decision is final and it was circumvented, it would have been a matter of topical discussion later to solve the situation in this purview. I can't fault my admin for it in this situation.

Though the charban? Unnecessary, yes. Take it to the CT Coordinators for them to decide what the action would have been taken as but I don't think ultima's actions here are of a negative light, even if I previously suspended him myself. Why? Because it's backed up by the Civil Protection Members involved in the situation.

At the same time, the Civil Protection units had a successful ambush position readied, which was undone by the noclip / OOC to find a very, very broken gun that would have taken a lot longer to actually fix.



This isn't a powergame situation, but it borders it. After watching the videos, I can clearly deduce everyone is in character up until the moment the CPs turn the corner and noclip is entered. A reversal should have been initiated and IC triggered because if the pistol is missing and you're running through the sophisticated method of tracking down its ID - more than likely that pistol was doomed. If nobody can cooperate, nobody is getting anywhere. That's what happened.



Refer to reversal of time regarding the incident. That's nearly ten players out of action for ten minutes over a refusal to cooperate.

As admins, there's a reason we handle the *now* rather than the *later*.

I have to confer in ultima's actions on this occasion. He did the right thing based on what I'd expect a server administrator to do when he has no physical choice. For your character to be unbanned, I advise a PK appeal because of the situation.