Ultima Abuse Report Continuation

[Curbalas]

I have been authorized to make another complaint thread after talking to RAD-X, because I completely think that the verdict was unjustified, unproven and completely disregarded some of the points I made.

https://willard.network/forums/threads/ultima-abuse-report.12993/post-102936

You can read the first abuse report I have made, with the comments on it before continuing to read this. It will be another long one explaining the situation that I could've done, and me objecting to the verdict RAD-X has given to the situation.

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First of all I will begin by explaining what parts of the verdict is either completely, or partially wrong with evidence I can provide.

The shooting that occurred in the slums was definitely aimed at that particular group, showcased by videos where the Civil Protection are slowly making their way toward the refugee zone. What ever lead up to that would have constituted an inevitable outcome where Curbalas et al will have needed to get in character.

First of all, the shooting has never occurred in the slums, it was in deep sewers where it was decently far away from any exits, the Civil Protection were making their way towards the refugee zone, but I had entered no-clip 1 minute ago before they entered the hallway leading to the refugee zone, I personally didn't even see CPs in sewers when I entered observer mode.

I could've been told by ultima to get out of observer, and to call someone else, supported by this screenshot. There was no ambush close to me, they still had 45 45-second long road to me, or even longer. I was in observer long before they were close to the refugee zone. He decided to wait until they entered the refugee camp, which I reacted by saying "holy shit" in /gm chat, to which I provided a screenshot.

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So idling that off to the side - Civil Protection was clearly after some people. Whether you were OOC or IC during that moment in time, ultimately you should have been in-character. Curbalas said so himself to me that he should have been in-character. It's why we state to people that if you are doing a ticket or sorting something out, get someone else to do it because the demands of eight / nine players or more in that situation constitute further importance than a phased pistol.

I should've been in IC situation if I knew a sweep was happening, which I would've learned 45 seconds before the CPs entered the refugee camp, provided by Relja Terzic yelling "Sweep." when they were in that position, confirmed by the screenshot above too. I was busy looking for the logs myself, since it was a minor situation which happens all the time.

If I was in IC, which I would more than love to be IC, I am not a coward who is scared of some S2K, don't listen to any staff or Divine telling that I wouldn't survive in the abuse thread, because damn yes I would.

If I heard ICly that Relja yelled the sweep was coming in that exact situation, I would've came out of observer and called vortigaunts, Relja had an AR-2 and I had an OSITR, this was a 100% chance of winning the fight for us, if one happened. Ultima knew this damn well, and didn't bother telling me to leave no-clip until they were in the refugee camp to attempt to get over me in the arguement.

Also to counter your eight / nine players situation, back when I was a CP in i24, I remember an exact situation where 10+ CP count sweep was happening, and we had to rewind a few steps back, estimatedly 30 seconds because a character was AFK, something that is much more lesser important than my situation.

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I don't care what anyone's side is and I don't care what faction anyone plays. But if a sweep is coming and you don't want to enter out of noclip when you were already there in-character, the pistol could have just been abandoned and collected later after the character made an escape or something. It's not rocket science for me to deduce that as someone in an administrative position.

I don't know how this point was achieved, because to counter this EXACT situation that a sweep was 100% unlikely if the overseeing staff (ultima) followed the rules as a server administrator. A person "Pierrik" left the game after the crystal situation, after shooting more bullets than me, nothing was told to him and he just left the game with no problems.

We are not allowed to enter metabases during a sweep is going on, but myself and two vortigaunts, Tuki and Stanford entered the metabase nonetheless, they were not warned to leave it at all, meaning that the overseeing staff was not ensuring the sweep-targets were following the rules. It is obvious that ultima has personal grudge against the rebellion due to the sweeps we have caused in recent days.

It's complete bullocks that a sweep could've been happening, if all rules were followed by the overseer of the situation.

The screenshot below is a proof of the vortigaunts that have extracted the crystal and were involved with the sweep targets, being in the metabase, not being warned at all. The other screenshot is ultima seeing the vortigaunts being in the meta-base, but not reacting or warning them at all.

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Seems to me Ultima was very direct in this case, and some negotiation / discussion could have emancipated the situation but if there's multiple people calling for the continuation of in-character circumstances for ten minutes without reversing it because, yes, I can see where people will get frustrated that the sudden ambush advantage was lost from the CPs side.

The ambush advantage was already lost after Relja Terzic, pite told us there was a sweep going on before 45 seconds the CPs arrived to the refugee camp, lesser situations proved rewinds, lesser situations proved voids. But for this exact situation, where ultima despises Rebels OOCly, confirmed by their discussions in staff chat, provided by Gutsy in his addition to the thread.

There were nobody wanting to reverse the situation 10 minutes, and I bet that no CP knew that I was in observer mode, except Ultima, which he knew a minute earlier the CPs came in. He was direct, and falsely direct, clearly biased against me. He could've told me a minute earlier to get out of noclip, but decided to wait until CPs barged in refugee camp. Could've did a rewind, since Relja told Nam, which I should've been next to her if I wasn't in observer looking for the pistol, there was a sweep going on. Relja would grab his AR-2, I would grab my OSITR and 2 vorts would be called in for help, it is clear that he knew that the CPs were going to get decimated, no matter if I never entered observer or got a rewind. He just used this to abuse his powers against me.

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That is all to object from the verdict I was given, and all of these confirm that is is completely false, either written with unconfirmed information, or misinformation gained from another staff member.

I would like to add some of the notes myself, firstly candle knows that we have shot the guns in the sewers, since he was the one GM'ing our crystal harvesting, which can be easily checked if he has done this. We were in the sewers, not slums, not anywhere.

Another member called Pierrik left the game, he was not given any warnings that there was a sweep going on after shooting his guns and stuff, nobody knew there was a sweep, and I expected that there were no sweeps. If it was truly a sweep due to the gunshots, everybody involved should've been told to not leave, including Pierrik. Because every single one of us has used their guns quite a lot during the crystal harvesting.

I have entered the meta-base, vortigaunts have entered the meta-base, but nobody was warned that a sweep was impending? Nobody was told to get out of the base? Or not leave the game? What was there to stop me from leaving the game after shooting something in sewers. Shooting in sewers does not count as a crime and I could've just left. Yet, it would be disallowed since there was a sweep, and ultima did not enforce this.

The verdict is not right, and I hereby request the Staff Council to reconsider their decision, both on my PK and the punishment upon ultima, because this is not his first time committing a bad faith crime, and I don't believe it will be his last. When will this stop?

 

[Curbalas]

Due to previous incidents, I would like the staff council dealing with this abuse report, and not the head of staff, authorized by RAD-X. Thank you.

 

[Curbalas]

This got to be a troll, is this guy just going to make appeals until it goes his way?

You shouldn't respond to something you are not remotely connected with, or have no context or knowledge behind it. It's against to rules to post messages on abuse reports like this with unnecessary messages right? You should know best Liam.

I was authorized by RAD-X to make another complaint thread, due to the verdict being completely wrong, and incomplete.

 

[Curbalas]

Another point I have forgot to include as an evidence in the initial thread that, the CPs were sweeping for everybody that was involved in the crystal activity, that goes for both the person that left the game with nothing told to him, indicating the sweep overseeing as a staff was being mishandled, and me nor the vortigaunts were warned to leave the meta-base after entering it, due to the impending sweep coming in.

 

[nath1234567]

This got to be a troll, is this guy just going to make appeals until it goes his way?

Unnecessary comment. You and everyone supporting this outcome would be in agreement with the complaint if the same OOC circumstances were responsible for the death of your character. This was an unfair outcome and I'm shocked that anyone has the gall to pretend it isn't. You're only giving way for more anti-RP outcomes to form by setting a precedent here and that could effect you one day regardless of your connections. Please keep further toxic comments in the DMs of the personality cult you belong to, thanks.
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I'll reiterate my comment from the last thread since it seems the last one was overlooked.

Firstly, I was under the impression that Willard Networks operated under a good faith system when it comes to the death of characters. There is no good faith to be found in the verdict that Ultima administered for this situation. Rewinds have been given for less and Curb was effectively forced into a situation where he was certain to die all because of unfortunate OOC circumstances.

The precedent set here is that winning matters more than creating fair roleplay opportunities for everyone, which is something that Willard claims to be against but has clearly lost sight of.

It was argued by @Imperator RAD-X that it would have been unfair for Civil Protection to have to rewind as it would have given away their element of surprise and ruined their plan to ambush. This isn't sensible because we have already established that their ambush was foiled very early on by Relja Terzic ( @pite ) Relja was in the same room as Curb's character and loudly warned them of the incoming sweep before making his escape. Relja Terzic survived, and so it is safe to assume that Curb's character would have survived if he was allowed a fair opportunity to roleplay on a roleplay server.

The point of what is fair for Civil Protection being brought up is also quite ironic considering nobody seems to care what is fair for Curbalas in this situation.

Another thing is that the outcome suggested by @ultima would have been for Curbalas to exit noclip into an active RP situation and immediately open fire on the Civil Protection that surround him. What an immersion breaking clusterfuck that would have turned into. We can all be glad that isn't what happened because it would have been far more ridiculous than what Curbalas suggested and should have been granted.

I don't think there's anything else to say. This outcome is anti-RP and was massively unfair for Curbalas. Anyone pretending that it isn't would immediately change tune if it was their character being killed.

Willard has evidently turned into a place where winning matters more than fair RP and this behavior is perpetuated by figures in staff who have openly or privately admitted that they are done doing anything for rebels for various reasons, which is clear bias that no doubt played a role in Curbalas's death.

 

[ItsLiam]

Please keep further toxic comments in the DMs of the personality cult you belong to, thanks.

Pretty toxic comment from someone saying I should keep further toxic comments in 'the personality cult' I 'belong to'. Please enlighten me, whose personality cult do I belong to anyway.

Also, why wasn't there a hate parade for people commenting on the earlier thread when they were in support of Curbulas and had absolutely zero to do with it? Apparently you can only comment if you're in support of one side, right.

#noticing

 

[Curbalas]

Also, why wasn't there a hate parade for people commenting on the earlier thread when they were in support of Curbulas and had absolutely zero to do with it? Apparently you can only comment if you're in support of one side, right.

Stop rage-baiting, unless you got something actually important to add that is factual, leave this thread in it's entirety, you are a known community troll. And everyone that supported me had evidence to support my case, which is completely right.

 

[MazuzaM]

This thread will be locked given the unnecessary amount of replies present, the evidence was provided in the previous thread and by Curbalas.

Server Council has been informed for further evaluation.

 

[Rabithunter]

I'm locking this thread for the moment, pending review by the server council. Unnecessary comments will be removed should any be deemed as such.

 

[Rabithunter]

Hello! Sorry for the long wait on this abuse thread. Meme and myself have looked into this and been talking about it behind the scenes, and have come to the following conclusion, whilst also taking ownership of the character PK as well.

From an abuse side of things, we don't feel that Ultima abused his staff powers here. As a staff member its one of his roles to ensure that other members of staff, game masters or mentors are conforming to the rules we set out for everyone. This in our view was done in a calm manner and in our opinion without malice towards you. From an abuse of powers perspective, he gave you many chances to get back into character, as to allow the RP to continue. Mazuzam was also asking you to do the same thing. You chose not to do this and argued against Ultima, telling him no and that what he was saying is 'Bullshit', continuing with your refusal to get back into character again.

We understand that you had entered noclip to search for a missing weapon and we want to highlight something. As much as this is not a thread to bring about the issues you yourself have done, it must be noted that you had your Gm powers on for an hour, before this eventually happened.

You shouldn't have your GM powers enabled all the time, as stipulated in the rules for those within the creative team. The times you are allowed to activate your powers are for Gm tickets, running events or preparing for events. As for the weapon itself, this is usually handled by staff, given its an admin related issue and not a CT one. We can understand your reasoning as to why you done it yourself, as you were there and present at the time of this happening and could handle it fairly quickly, had it not gone into the void realm. In the future, you need to ensure you switch off your GM powers after doing anything that requires them. Its understandable that mistakes happen, this possibly being one of those times, so we ask you learn from it and follow those rules in the future.

As a final response to the abuse side of this issue, we wont be taking any actions against Ultima in this case. He acted cordially towards you and asked you repeatedly in a calm manner to get back into character, to which you continued saying no to. Ultima didnt abuse his staff rank to alter the situation for someone elses gain, only trying to maintain the balance of fair play for the CP's who came looking in a sweep.

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Moving to the PK, as I have been asked to look into this on behalf of Cengiz. I wont ask you to make an appeal, as thats yet another thread for yet more time waiting to get a reply, and im about to start the first of three day shifts at work, so you'll be waiting for a while.

Given the issue of being in observer at the time of CP's arriving, your character was not necessarily given the chance to fight back against those who may have captured your char/killed them. You claim that vorts may have come to your aid, as you have a radio frequency that they themselves listen to. In the video evidence from Ultima's perspective, the vorts engaged a manhack, before diving into their base for cover or to hide. This base is fairly close to where your character was RPing at the time, perhaps being close enough to aid your character should he have required it.

With that in mind, and your claim that suggests you can type so many words per minute and could have called aid, its very hard to say if they would have come to help, or if they even had their radio's on at the time. Another character yelled that CP's were on approach as well, that being Pite's character.

They said the word 'Sweep' before running down into the sewers, as you said and is noticeable in the third video posted by Ultima. Had you been in character at this time you may well have ran in the same direction as well, though Pite's char may also have not gone and found the CP's sweeping if you had continued your interactions with their character, along with the third player who lost the gun.

This is a tough one as we can all speculate what could or could not have happened in this case, going back and forth with variables and suggestions to other potentialities. Your PK was based on your ooc decision to enter into observer and then not get back into character, asking for a roll back of the sweep which in my opinion would have ruined the surprise and created other issues in itself. Pite by this point had already gone offline, meaning he wouldn't have been able to help, unless asked to come back onto the server to redo it, though asking him to do that would have also placed his own character at risk which wouldn't be fair to them, given he was not involved in the gun related issue and was in character throughout.

Overall, your PK will be lifted, however I expect the following set of events to be followed. This is to ensure that all players involved are treated with some fair play.

1. Your character was captured, interrogated and sent off to a labor camp for a number of weeks, determined by the length of time we will be offline.
2. Whilst in this labor camp, your character will have been tortured, subjected to emotional, mental and physical abuse and conditioning. What this means is they will fear others, vorts and be generally very anxious around the rebel scene for a fair amount of time, suffering with mental instability as well.
3. Your character will be known to civil protection, a note being placed on file to suggest having been captured and interrogated already.
4. Your character will not be refunded, having been caught with items on them and subsequently removed upon being captured.

Should you not follow this series of events and roleplay accordingly, your character will be PK'd again, without further appeals. Whilst you were doing something from an OOC standpoint and I understand this fact, I cant deny the fact that you had your GM powers on for a long time before this, which you shouldn't be doing, only to then go into observer when this situation unfolded and proceeded to remain there, arguing and complaining in GM ooc chat. We have PK appeals for a reason and this is what should have been done, instead of trying to battle it out on the server.

We can all come up with hypothetical scenarios, based on who was nearby at the time of any event. In this situation however, given how long you argued with Ultima oocly and other staff members, I dont think this was a viable solution.

As this is relatively long:
Abuse claim - DENIED
PK appeal - ACCEPTED under the events outlined.