The Ministry of Progress HAS to go.

[ItsLiam]

​

The Ministry of Progress, or was it the Research department... Or was it the Bureau of Research and Innovation? These factions have contributed NOTHING to the environment of the server, personally I've never even interacted with them. Does anyone truly know what they have done? You guys do the research on the forums, and then the result of it goes into the void. Zero Roleplay purposes, zero Roleplay has been done and zero effects have been felt in Willard. I'd go as far as saying that the fact that the Research department is detrimental to the server's Roleplaying climate, and action needs to be taken. We shit on Rebels for always circle jerking in their base however, we have to look closer at home, and by closer... I mean the CMRU/MOP. The MOP is now even going as far as claiming an entire -THREE STORY BUILDING- for a faction existing of seven members. This is absolutely spitting in the face of the community. A three story building for a faction that sits AFK in their lab writing something on the forums? Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but is it better to spend 3 hours writing something on the forums, or spending those 3 hours actually roleplaying and being in the city, interacting with the population?​

Now, I can't only complain and shit on a faction without giving any suggestions on how it CAN go better. If I went about it, I would abolish the MoP first of all, it serves no purpose in the current Willard and I don't understand why we keep trying it over and over and over again. We don't gain anything by having the MoP, we don't lose anything by removing it. A wise man once said, insanity is trying the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. The BRI didn't work 2 years ago, the CMRU didn't work now, the MOP won't work in the future. Especially as a, and I can't state this enough times, SEVEN TO ELEVEN MAN FACTION. I would then reintegrate it into the CMRU, and have the CMRU share a lab/hospital again, there is no reason for them to split up and take up two different buildings, when arguably they just need 3 rooms. Don't get me wrong, I do like to see people putting work into things and I like reading the documents, but do we really gain anything by having it as an entirely different division? Why can't people just do both? We've recently taken the decision in the CWU to remove divisions and all act on the same purpose to not cause anymore confusion. The MoP should follow this. Be mature enough to put your hands up and admit it's not working, and that your faction doesn't do anything.​

Please do note, I have nothing against the people in this faction, I just want to have a better playing experience for the entirety of the server.​

​

 

[Robert]

Hi,

Will just jump straight in and say while I understand this sentiment about the BRI, CMRU, MOP etc and its many versions, the only failure anyone can ever really fully recall is the BRI, its oldest cousin that was subsumed into the CMU to bring it back to life at the time and it worked for a whole year straight under Freudekas leadership (if that is how you spell his name)

Since I24/C8 it has died down since then with it becoming more isolated and disconnected from the playerbase and its members activity dropping under the CMRU due some conflicts of what the purpose of the CMRU/CMU should be and what the MOP was in comparison was causing quite a lot of hiccups in the system to my understanding. According to the words of some researchers directly, their demotivation came from some factions doing their best to hinder the efforts of the Research based players. Similar to how CWU was close to death due to a group of CPs being a unending nuisance to the Workers Union.

Now I haven't personally been in the CMRU/MOP since i24, but do hear whispers of it and understand why it fell into the state that it has currently fallen into.

Recently over the break, some of the fixes CMU and MOP leadership is trying is removing Research from CMU and giving it over to the MOP in its entirety, bolstering the MOPs purpose on the server. Now some may say Research has no place and adds nothing to any faction but the one doing the research- this is only true if you look purely at C8 and i24 and ignore literally everything else. Research has been responsible for the Generators dating back to C24 which rebels once liked to sabotage, the VX gas of the Antlion Arc, the vort batteries in some of our maps, fight off the infestations and work with CWU to beat the Stage 5 infestation named "Thanarok" in its time period, etc. Also partly responsible for the whole Debt arc we once went through.

Research has been responsible for a lot of major events in its past and just because recently and its oldest self failed doesn't mean it simply can no longer exist, just means it needs a breath of fresh air to bring it back to life which both the CMU and MOP are working towards doing. Believe it or not, but there is a lot of Medical and Research fanatics that love these types of factions. CMU exists because of such fanatics with their hyper advanced medical knowledge doing extensive RP and giving life and reason to their existence, research had once done that same thing, just fell into a creative block of sorts with its members feeling a bit left out and there is plans to fix that.

While understandably people will still look at the MOP as a circlejerk faction, that is what they are working hard to undo and CMU is helping their goal towards that and giving back their Research duties to MOP which is roughly the same size as CMU now. Both CMU and MOP are relatively small factions, always have been in hl2rp (even ones that include both Research and Medical). It has potential as shown in its previous working form under certain leaders who are now since gone, but is still possible.

Even today I was speaking to them about how to improve their projects to include the citizenry and not just the CPs or CWU. Ideas on how to expand it out to the rest of the playerbase without needing to tell random Civ #254252 how Dark Energy works or something silly like that. But ones which at least are interesting and interactable enough to not be boring to perform, as well as have an impact on the server like they used to have.

---

This was a very quick and late night posting, but wanted to get this out of the way to try and say MOP and Research isn't as broken as people see it to be. Just because it suffered some internal issues causing it to become closed off doesn't mean it no longer serves a purpose, just going through a rough patch they are all trying to work their way out of.

Do they deserve a 3 story building? Maybe not, but I would rather see how it goes rather than see a few or many complaints and make a decision on that and would prefer seeing what happens to see if it can fix itself or die trying.

It is incredibly rude to shutdown a faction when they are just finding their footing again. Similar to how many have called for CCRs removal but we have stuck down our stance that CCR is not going anywhere, it will stay and see how the setup by its leaders works on this map. Is everyone happy with that decision? Clearly not, but such is the nature of a Community such as Willard. Some will hate ideas, factions and features. Others will like it. No one can say for sure how things will work out, nor can anyone solely determine if X or Y is right or wrong for the community.

I sleep now

 

[ford-michigan]

I would also like to say. Have you ever been in research? If not then why say it needs to be stopped if you have not even tried. Also I feel like it was more a mindset and management issue as the dean of research once told me when I asked them something "I am busy watching anime tits" (not marco, marco is doing stuff and being good at it. It was the former dean sam). Also if other players see this, please please please do projects that involve other factions or a cool project that rebels or citizens get hints of and it can be a RP piece. I did like doing the research stuff but I do notice there are not a lot of active projects. So apply.

 

[ItsLiam]

It is incredibly rude to shutdown a faction when they are just finding their footing again. Similar to how many have called for CCRs removal but we have stuck down our stance that CCR is not going anywhere, it will stay and see how the setup by its leaders works on this map. Is everyone happy with that decision? Clearly not, but such is the nature of a Community such as Willard. Some will hate ideas, factions and features. Others will like it. No one can say for sure how things will work out, nor can anyone solely determine if X or Y is right or wrong for the community.

Although I think you make a great point, do note that in my original post I am advocating for a research department, however, I advocated for it to be merged with the CMRU and to remove division based appointing. Let the current MoP (Vasilidesu, Rabit, Walker iirc) be management of the research department in the CMRU, they don't need their entire own faction.

I for one also enjoy essays and the Research, however, I do wholeheartedly believe we gain more out of this if we disengage from the whole 'divisions' thing and start letting people do whatever they want. Much like how the CWU has done, and how a lot of factions should do it.

Why should Doctor 1 not be able to do Research? And why should Researcher 2 not be able to be a doctor?

I don't see any reason why the MOP should not do this, as they are trying to get rid of the (well placed) stigma that it is a circle jerk. Don't we want our players to be able to by polyvalent and have fun at multiple parts on the same character?

 

[ford-michigan]

Okay so where in the change to MOP does it state that you can't be a doctor and a researcher? I am sure maro would be fine with that. @Marco

 

[RedHotGinger]

The MOP is objectively a bloat faction and unneeded.

That being said, as someone who had lots of debate regarding them, I don't really care if they are removed or not though. Would it be better if they were just collapsed into the CMRU? Yeah. Really no argument against such a thing, trust me I've checked. Research is going to see no degradation or improvement beneath them that couldn't have been achieved within the old setup. Them being absorbed would have provided a stronger presence of a core faction, rather than split it up. So MOP is, at best, entirely unnecessary. Its a faction that probably exists to allow certain characters to retain an 'important' status.

With this in mind, I don't see them doing damage to warrant a full blown crusade over their removal. They've their own building and in truth, research added very little the CMU overall - which mostly just acted as a flotation device for the failing concept of an independent research faction. Will it last this time around? Almost certainly not. But at the same time, it doesn't really hurt anything for it to try (again)

My main beef with the MOP has historically been how parasitic it is towards the CMU, and now that its separated, warded off from taking any of the factions space and now just doing its own thing without being 'over' the CMU in any way, Its a big 'meh' for me. Researchers can still be doctors (maybe other stuff too, not sure) and thus contribute to a more traditional and general state within the server.

 

[ItsLiam]

To give an update, the 3 story building now has to be rewarded through some jigamajig. I'm going to be honest, the Mop getting this much attention is beyond laughable. Why are we entertaining this sort of thing? Why can't we just for once think about the better of the server rather than thinking about our own faction. I genuinely think this is one of, if not the most infuriating things I've ever had the displeasure of coming across in my time at Willard. I'm sorry, I can't put it in any nicer way. The Mop has added nothing to the server in the past 2 years and the fact we're even entertaining the idea of them getting two(!) whole floors of a building to themselves is nothing but a spit in the face of the playerbase and everyone involved with the current map. Honestly, the one I feel the most for is Astro. A guy who put his everything into the map, working on it almost daily like it's a fucking job. The map is small, compact, it's hard to get housing correctly done, this done, that done, coordinate with every faction... And to make it even harder, he now has to look at the mop getting an entire building when it could be better used in... ANY OTHER WAY. Also, yes, for anyone who wants to comment they are only getting 2 out of 3 floors, I KNOW. However, we're entertaining this circus for no reason.

 

[Marco]

How about you join it and roleplay instead of spending 3 hours on forum a day writing arguments about why people shouldn't be able to have fun the way they want.

 

[Asimo1234]

With the recent changes Willard has pivoted towards pushing all players into the city and to interact with it. And something like the CMU or MoP/CMRU/Whateverthefucktheyare shouldn't be an exception to this. Now, they are usually situated in the city, but that does not automatically mean that they're adding to cityRP.

I think when it comes down to it this discussion is quite simple, if the research just ends up being circlejerk in offices with little interaction with the general playerbase (And this does not just mean loyalist circlejerk, regular bluesuits are the goal now.) then the faction is flawed. No matter how much fun the researchers themselves are having.
We also axed rebels circlejerking with weapons in the sewers, so precedent is there.

And if the faction cannot change itself to involve citizens and the city, then they're detracting from RP and that should open them up for axing.

 

[TheGamingPlumber]

How about you join it and roleplay instead of spending 3 hours on forum a day writing arguments about why people shouldn't be able to have fun the way they want.

legendary comeback

 

[Purple Knight]

Just gonna add my two-pence here:

I *did* originally have quite negative views on the MoP, and I still do in some regards, I personally advocated for them to just merge into CM(R)U instead of dividing but if that's the direction they want to take that's on them, neither a positive nor negative change.

I will say, CWU and CMRU/MoP etc have had a fair few interactions in the past, and as a matter of fact, I'm *in* that faction so I know they do actually do some work that affects the main server.

I personally believe the MoP will have a functional existence on the new map, they sort of have to, all eyes will be on them, a lot of which want them axed, so they need to step up and produce something to justify their existence as a separated faction now that they can't hide behind the CMRU.

My views on the MoP are neutral, though personally I'm not a fan of having "Ministries" at all on the new map but that's something that's too late to change now, I have faith that the MoP will provide substance, so I don't believe they should be axed for the simple fact that they're taking up space.

All in all, we will see, and it's undeniable that eyes will be on the MoP to provide, so I wish my best of luck to the members of the faction and its leads to do this, and hope they can shake the stigma they have and become a valued faction on the server

EDIT:

I will say, the CWU changed its divisional system because it's what *our* people wanted, the MoP split from the CM(R)U because that's what *they* wanted, anyone else doesn't really have a say in the way they conduct business unless it's actively negatively affecting the playerbase, which it's not IMO

 

[Inspector Orlok]

How about you join it and roleplay instead of spending 3 hours on forum a day writing arguments about why people shouldn't be able to have fun the way they want.

Mr House here
Funny enough I was in an iteration of the MOP, the BRI, if you remember that? Within the first week of me being in the BRI we did this:


We created a rocket and sent it to the atmosphere to overlook the movement of an antlion hive.

This alone has done more for the server in terms of RP than the MOP has ever done.

 

[Purple Knight]

Funny enough I was in an iteration of the MOP, the BRI, if you remember that? Within the first week of me being in the BRI we did this:
View attachment 37631
View attachment 37632
We created a rocket and sent it to the atmosphere to overlook the movement of an antlion hive.

This alone has done more for the server in terms of RP than the MOP has ever done.

Okay??? On a real one labcoats and hard hats go hard frfr

 

[Lost Coast Chanties]

Mr House here
Funny enough I was in an iteration of the MOP, the BRI, if you remember that? Within the first week of me being in the BRI we did this:
View attachment 37631
View attachment 37632
We created a rocket and sent it to the atmosphere to overlook the movement of an antlion hive.

This alone has done more for the server in terms of RP than the MOP has ever done.

I remember that. It didn't really lead to anything but it was cool.

 

[Cengiz]

How about you join it and roleplay instead of spending 3 hours on forum a day writing arguments about why people shouldn't be able to have fun the way they want.

legendary comeback

 

[quarter]

Although I think you make a great point, do note that in my original post I am advocating for a research department, however, I advocated for it to be merged with the CMRU and to remove division based appointing. Let the current MoP (Vasilidesu, Rabit, Walker iirc) be management of the research department in the CMRU, they don't need their entire own faction.

I for one also enjoy essays and the Research, however, I do wholeheartedly believe we gain more out of this if we disengage from the whole 'divisions' thing and start letting people do whatever they want. Much like how the CWU has done, and how a lot of factions should do it.

Why should Doctor 1 not be able to do Research? And why should Researcher 2 not be able to be a doctor?

I don't see any reason why the MOP should not do this, as they are trying to get rid of the (well placed) stigma that it is a circle jerk. Don't we want our players to be able to by polyvalent and have fun at multiple parts on the same character?

Alright, I'll try to clear the water here.

The main reason for the divide is so the research side doesn't have to wait a thousand years from the CCA for approval on higher classified projects or CWU for material orders. This was the main killer as plenty of researchers' (including Marco before his promotion) progress were either demoralized or delayed by lack of communication between factions. Having the MoP, a faction specifically inside the CCA with the execs and whatnot, have all the researchers under their wing allows for ease of access; that, as well as some projects that need external funding.

The CMU and MoP are not exclusive in employment, either. A researcher can, indeed, be a doctor, but cannot be more than standard personnel in the medical field if they are a senior researcher and vice versa. Me, Marco, Rabit and a few others talked over this extensively and have come to this agreement. This is final and set-in-stone; I see no reason why there's an argument.

Another thing that may help, as a suggestion of mine, is to allow the researchers who have been successful in their studies and have created something worthwhile access to creating custom scripts or having an event trigger via GM aid. That's just a random thought off the top, though.

 

[Robert]

We are going to be proceeding with closing the thread. The legendary Willardian move of closing threads.



But overall MOP & CMU is going to be trying out a few of its own changes as of the server opens and I know some aren't a fan of these type of factions in general, mainly the MOP- but both the CMRU and MOP leads did agree to the changes made over the break and the transference of the Research Department from CMRU to MOP was done to get around some IC issues by bumping up the Research division power to one more equal to the CCA by giving them a direct seat within the CCA to approve their own projects without someone trying to block them or waiting a really long time just to get a project approved.

This as Quarter said above was the main issue Research was facing and why it eventually stopped doing what it used to do back in C24 and the map after it.

But anyway, if the MOP and CMU want to test out these changes then I think that is for the best. We will see if it works out or not and if not, then we can reconsider what is the best course of action for the factions in this regard.