Quick Complaint about Deverinity's GM-ing

[Processed_Grain]

I'll try and keep this short for this thread. A bit of rambling. I just had a few qualms with this and that during my PK and it's denial. If you want to see the full story and whatnot feel free to here:

https://willard.network/forums/threads/kryrlo-bozydar-pk-appeal.13300/

For a recap;
Deverinity, while GMing my attack on a Civil Protection Officer, exhibited a few questionable ethics and choices.

For reference, I had just lunged at a lone VICE-4 with a knife, stabbing him in the back. VICE-4, shaken up, performed two actions in 1 /me in response initially, where he both falls into a mound of snow (where he began suffocating) and doing the classic "Presses side of radio with an 11-99 voiceline to boot" trick. (This was before Deverinity had intervened to GM the encounter, however it was never rescinded).



No flak on VICE-4 (@Jfish plays them I think). I honestly might have done the same on accident if I were in his shoes. The problem arises when the new GM supposed to clear this up just "Moves on with it" and throws the nuance out the window. Especially when that carefree nature gets me sent back to the forums.


Initially, Jfish hadn't known he had been stabbed, which is another reason why he immediately called for help over the radio. After Deverinity showed up, we cleared it up and semi-redo'd the initial actions. I tackled and stabbed VICE-4 in the back, and he fell into the pile of snow up front. Problem? He had already sent out the communication over the radio, and Civil Protection had over ~5 Minutes to figure out where VICE-4 was and were already on the way. Even though VICE-4 wouldn't even be able to realistically call for help given his situation (being stabbed, falling and suffocating in snow). I wasn't given the chance to at least roll or even react in both instances as I helplessly watched my chances of getting out alive were promptly halved.




(It's already been cleared up how it was impossible for the unit to transmit it in the first place)


Better yet - just as I was about to escape and try and make it free, Deverinity let the incoming horde of Civil Protection arrive 1 turn early (Said previously they'd arrive in 3 turns, not 2). Thus, sealing my fate to be either;

A: Captured and thrown into the giant pit in Nexus.
B: Being chased down and put killed like a dog (what I had to choose)

Bonus Cope Tangent on my PK

​

Wasn't included in the title but... forget it its 12 am.

 

[Neonity]

@Deverinity

 

[Devistral]

4.0 - Elaborating on Timescale
-- This server uses timescale. This means that for every round of actions taken in an RP session by a group of players - an opposing party may get closer each round.

In-regards to the 1 turn left, in a realistic scenario with timescaling the two CivPro would have noticed a man with a knife from afar. This means that even if I switched to S2K they would've chased you into the slums. You would also have done the same s2rp without notifying the civpro and you still would've been shot and PK'd as a result of it.

Two CivPro units is not a horde, they gave you a chance to escape, both of them had perfect clear shots in s2k. They also delayed themselves from outright entering the slums until another unit interlocked with them. I truly believe that nothing would've changed even if I let you run off 1 turn early; and by running off you rescinded your s2rp opportunity as per agreement when you spoke to me in looc.

I also made the decision to end the turn early because you were grabbed by a vortigaunt and the man, you would have been in a struggle and this would've allowed the attending CivPro to arrive in time. You would not have had the opportunity to escape until CivPro shot the wrong guy and the vortigaunt for holding the knife.

3.0 - Powergame
---- It can also be called Powergame when you perform an act not possible in real life.

You cannot release yourself from a vortigaunts and another mans grip. You were released when the vort was shot for taking the knife and when the other man got shot accidentally. From my perspective you stabbed the unit then was grabbed, you cannot multi-task fast enough to 'dodge' or 'block' any attempts of being grabbed when you have a knife in the back of the units spine. The only scenario where I would've considered the possibility of allowing this is if you took pills or drugs supporting it, though none were taken.

Now the 11-99 situation is a bit mixed, I did not have enough knowledge to go off of it and I asked the players if it's valid and I got mixed answers, the problem with the 11-99 call is the unit can't simply say 'void' after 5 minutes of saying it over the radio when the whole precinct was now aware of it. I was sort of forced to roll with it considering half of civpro at the time was searching for the unit. The two units that approached the area were not part of this search as I mentioned in the PK appeal which is why I gave them 3 turns.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes the whole situation was messy but I worked off of the chaos I could, there were NO GMs at your location when you made the attack; I was in the middle of GMing storm damage wit robert and the rest. The storm was not ended to cuck you specifically, we planned everything a week in advance; start time and end time - as a test of the system and see how the players reacted.

Additionally the four other CivPro that entered way too late were told to go void it and go elsewhere. I even told the CWU that were in your escape route to give you space to run away as you would've shoved them out of your way in s2k.

 

[Devistral]

 

[albertossic]

4.0 - Elaborating on Timescale
-- This server uses timescale. This means that for every round of actions taken in an RP session by a group of players - an opposing party may get closer each round.

In-regards to the 1 turn left, in a realistic scenario with timescaling the two CivPro would have noticed a man with a knife from afar. This means that even if I switched to S2K they would've chased you into the slums. You would also have done the same s2rp without notifying the civpro and you still would've been shot and PK'd as a result of it.

Two CivPro units is not a horde, they gave you a chance to escape, both of them had perfect clear shots in s2k. They also delayed themselves from outright entering the slums until another unit interlocked with them. I truly believe that nothing would've changed even if I let you run off 1 turn early; and by running off you rescinded your s2rp opportunity as per agreement when you spoke to me in looc.

Hi, I played one of the first two CP units that showed up, and I believe what Processed Grain is trying to say that were it not for the confusion around the radio, we would only have started making our way towards VICE-4 once the deed had been done and Kyrylo was already fleeing, in which case he would definitely have gotten away.

Not trying to weigh in on the complaint, just clarifying - it's definitely true that if CP had not been allowed to walk up and wait for timescale, we would not have known of the crime in time to stop the offender.

 

[Devistral]

Hi, I played one of the first two CP units that showed up, and I believe what Processed Grain is trying to say that were it not for the confusion around the radio, we would only have started making our way towards VICE-4 once the deed had been done and Kyrylo was already fleeing, in which case he would definitely have gotten away.

Not trying to weigh in on the complaint, just clarifying - it's definitely true that if CP had not been allowed to walk up and wait for timescale, we would not have known of the crime in time to stop the offender.

This goes into my paragraph where the 11-99 with a very etchy topic, I decided to roll with it because it's been 5 minutes and I had mixed responses. I understand his complaint but that portion of the incident is a very grey area which I tried to clarify with my point of view.

 

[Processed_Grain]

You cannot release yourself from a vortigaunts and another mans grip. You were released when the vort was shot for taking the knife and when the other man got shot accidentally.

You would not have had the opportunity to escape until CivPro shot the wrong guy and the vortigaunt for holding the knife.

The whole 'Getting apprehended by the Vort and other guy' thing was pretty sketchy too. Neither of them were trying to do a 'Citizens Arrest' that was only stopped by the cops intervening. They literally just wanted me to fuck off and not let their people buried beneath not suffocate. Once I dropped my knife for the Vort, they let me go. The whole thing was just bad timing with me ending up in the way, something I didn't know.

Yes the whole situation was messy but I worked off of the chaos I could, there were NO GMs at your location when you made the attack; I was in the middle of GMing storm damage wit robert and the rest. The storm was not ended to cuck you specifically, we planned everything a week in advance; start time and end time - as a test of the system and see how the players reacted.

Additionally the four other CivPro that entered way too late were told to go void it and go elsewhere. I even told the CWU that were in your escape route to give you space to run away as you would've shoved them out of your way in s2k.

Yeah... I get it. You did your best with the situation at hand and whatnot. I can't really blame you.

Maybe I'm just in the 'Denial' phase after another new character, group (Order of the Eastern Crown), and storyline gets pretty much put into the ground because of a bad series of unfortunate events. Who knows. I just feel like I was wronged in the PK ruling. Many others agree with me on this. That's why I made the complaint post in the first place. Especially since @Cengiz's answer was more or less;

"Yeah the 11-99 stuff was worrying and all but you still probably would have died anyway + when looking at the events straight from the perspective of the PK it was still justified since you risked it in the first place."



Yes. I took a risk. That's what makes the world go round. That doesn't mean I should just eat up anything the Civil Protection try to pull as a "Natural Consequence" of my actions.

I tried to diminish the risk. I came with a second man. I tried attacking with people around who I thought were allies or at least were neutral around. I tried making sure no other units were around. I tried attacking in the middle of White-Out as the entire city came to a stand still. And what happened?

The Third Party who were standing there intervenes since I came at a 'bad time' while they were managing something completely unrelated.

Civil Protection gets an impossible 11-99 out that can't be cancelled or voided OOC.

The Storm ends after just a few hours over OOC reasons.

And my only possible chance of escape ends in me getting chased by Civil Protection into the slums since they were even able to get onto the scene because of the timescale.



....And I can't even take a Void for the situation??

Or- even a No-Refund NLR would be fine. I don't care. I just wish to keep all the RP we've been building over this whole arc with the OEC Group intact. I don't want it all to go to waste over something completely avoidable. Especially a shitty shake-up gone wrong where the aim wasn't even to kill anyone.

I guarantee that most, if not all, parties involved would be completely indifferent or would even be for the PK being rescinded. There is zero sense in keeping the PK in place just because I'm "Prone to a PK" for trying to get something going and taking advantage of the environment.

It's diabolical.



I contacted Cengiz in DMs right after the denial. He explained to me that he can only deal with the PK itself and how it applies to the rules of the server, so I won't blame him for it. If you look at it from a straight perspective of "Did this death warrant a Perma-Kill" like he's meant to as PK Manager, the answer is still technically 'Yes'`.

If you zoom out, and take a look for yourself? You get to see how fucked this whole thing really was. It's cutting short a whole lot of actual constructive and interesting roleplay going with what is really the Terminal-7 Arc's first faction to be formed. A far cry from; "Hah. Guy dies in failed attack since he got fucked over. Lol!!".



I don't want to argue semantics over whether Civil Protection arriving early changes anything or whatever.

I just want the Server Council or- whoever makes the decision on this stuff to see reason, and take another look at this whole thing, my PK, it's appeal, and the eventual 'Ruling' that answered it.