OTA-Level Cops

[Divine]

Imagine if you will, you're sitting idle on Triumph street, enjoying a bagel on a bench. You sit yourself up, and trot off into the slums. You're enjoying that bagel as you walk around looking for trash to scavenge; the typical slummer on the hunt for goodies. All of a sudden, you hear some gunshots.

Oh? Someone's hunting zombies in the sewers. Then come the beeps, and the boots, and the "<:: Don't move! ::>" commands. That's right, the cops deployed 7-strong into the slums because someone shot a zombie in the deep underground.

You have a gun on you, some cheap armor, maybe you could take them. You consider fighting back, and you might make a decent escape attempt - only one thing in your way.

Every single cop from i5 to i3 has 75 armor and MP7's
Oh, and of course...
Every single cop from i2 to CpT have 100 armor and MP7's (or shotguns)
​

That's normal, right? The 7 cops with SMGs and armor equivalent to OTA rushing into the slums en-masse, about to stop and frisk you; you'll die here, or you'll die fighting with your meager 25 armor and pistol.

This isn't balancing, this is using incompetence and failure to justify dropping cops at a place that is not at all reachable by rebels. Every single cop currently has riot armor and MP7's on marginal socio-code. Even if they didn't have riot armor, a recent buff has pushed cops to have 50 (RCT-i3), 75 (i2-i1), and 100 (RL-CpT).

Now admittedly, 75 armor for command units isn't all that bad! See, this can help combat against random shotcops or quick deployments against high-tier rebels who also have heavy armor. It would be rare on both sides, but that 75 armor can make a big difference - especially since they wouldn't have to run off to get riot armor; however, basing the entire faction's capabilities around the biggest threat solely will do zero good for low-tier rebels or scrappers. Even if they outnumber cops, they would need proper rifles to stand a chance.

Ask yourself:
Why are we rewarding the Combine failing to take proper steps to protect
themselves with buffs that make it impossible for low tier players to survive?
​

100 armor is bizarre, especially given cop & OTA co-deployments are allowed - and recently, we've seen OTA deploy over an i4 dying in the underground metro even though they were meant to be shelved and only used if rifles or heavy vortigaunt presence was clear.

I think this balancing decision needs to be looked at again. I do not want to encourage shotcops, but if somebody wants to evade cops sweeping for the 752nd time because the voice in their head told them to, they should have a chance to live. This whole 'let's sweep slums 500 times' thing gets old when it interrupts roleplay or just blatantly kills off people with zero chance to fight back. Not carrying your gear is one thing, but not everybody has that luxury.

Say "No" to 100 armor for cops.​

 

[BrennenW05]

Maybe the ones only doing shotcops should find something else to do rather than just run up and shooting then complaining that there is a response. Cut power lines, mail bomb, throw acid in loyalists' faces, blow a hole in a wall, do something other than shooting and then getting nowhere.

The same people who attacked that sweep today, just bombed the triumph checkpoint last sunday.

 

[ford-michigan]

In i24 stuff was cool because rebels would blow stuff up, hack the speakers, or plant infestations. People say the only way to make stuff change is through PKing characters but that is only true if you intend to PK each combine character until the end of the server because they will just be replaced, but then with buildings it takes a lot more in game effort to repair a building, to fight an infestation, or to repair supply lines. With doing that you not only make it actually last some amount of time but also it involves other factions that have to repair and interact with the stuff.

And to add on to other points of people shotcoping after they do something other than shotcop. You can do other stuff then run away, you don't need to fight each wave of combine, usually you are supposed to run and hide, this is like poking a wasp nest each time some come out and wondering why you got stung a bunch of times.

 

[MrTuki]

t takes a lot more in game effort to repair a building

The CWU does 5 /me's on a workshift as SOON as the timer to repair is over and the entire place is back to being brand new. I dont know what effort you speak of.

 

[MisterMysteryMan]

As a Metrocop who was (very briefly) a part of that sweep last night, the rebels did absolutely NOTHING wrong in that encounter. They utilized their home turf effectively and coordinated surprise attacks to take out my fellow units by surprise. In contrast, we burst into Indigent like we own the place and got our asses handed to us. This was not a result of unfair balancing, but rather poor planning and being outmaneuvered.

I do, however, want to bring up two small suggestions that I think could aid in situations like these. For one, the return of riot gear as if we're put into a situation like this again, we can match their armour. And two: Units should be allowed to go "one-tier-up" in terms of weaponry (RCT gets pistols, i5 and i4s get mid-tier weapons like the MP7. I3s+ get access to rifles/shotguns if they haven't already. No pulse weaponry)

CivPros are balanced for Mid-Tier rebels and should remain that way. But what happens when we're faced with a large number of high-tier insurgents? In that case, we should be given tools to TEMPORARILY close the gap to match, but not exceed them.

Rebels should not be punished for doing everything right and playing how they're supposed to. CivPro players should take this loss as something to reflect on and learn from their mistakes. Rushing into a hot zone without communication or intel probably is not a good idea. We're in combat-trained soldiers of the Combine, time to act like it.

 

[toby]

with enough yankees with hatchets you can kill any combine bastard

 

[TheGamingPlumber]

The CWU does 5 /me's on a workshift as SOON as the timer to repair is over and the entire place is back to being brand new. I dont know what effort you speak of.

This is false

 

[MazuzaM]

Death happens when you die

 

[FieldersNL]

My opinion has shifted on this topic, in that low to mid tier rebels should be in no way shape or form capable of 1v1'ing a cop at all, and that, the only actual threat to cops should be high-tier rebels.

As things are right now, we're geared to be equivalent to mid tier rebels, (50 armor junk weaponry) with i5-i1 having 50 armor and an SMG, and RL-CPT having 75 armor.

Understandably, this has had a massive impact on any shotcops, and even when officers deploy a lot of officers, we still barely win some engagements, and lose the most. For example,

The shotcop prior to August on the aftermath of Crash's capture ended up with multiple cops being downed, Despite a spikewall being present, and a Rank Leader.

Most, if not all of those rebels had 75 armor and an SMG, if not better, not to mention, they had a vortigaunt present.

Cops should be dominant in terms of equipment. The recent shotcop being a very clear view of not only our inadequacy in equipment, but in training as well. Something that can only get better with practice.

Anyhow, marco burger over...

This is straight up a skill issue

 

[MazuzaM]

When is it that y'all will realize that the problem is Willard's Combat system and not the stats

 

[Deek29]

TBC would solve ALL these issues

 

[Elsida]

TBC would solve ALL these issues

It will not as numbers would win strength or strategy most of the times.

 

[Rabid]

If you remember how bad the "TBC meta" got it would literally just replace the current problems with all new (well, old) ones that were arguably worse in their own ways. People can - and did - abuse TBC to survive.