Suggestions for Improving CvR Engagements

[Janek]

Following recent events, undoubtedly the September 19th raid on The Front's base, I'd like to propose solutions to address some noteworthy issues in the Combine vs Rebels (CvR) engagements seen. The goal is to promote fairness, have rules clarified, and improve the player experience for both factions. These suggestions aim to tackle problems like wave timer disputes, inconsistent permakill (PK)/New Life Rule (NLR) rulings, raid justifications and missed roleplay (RP) opportunities.

Suggestions

1. Clarify and Enforce Wave Timer Rules (Ref: Guidelines Section 6, Rule 3.2 General Scale Crimes):
Rule 3.2 mandates a 10-minute cooldown between waves for "general scale" crimes, but the recent raid saw an Overwatch Transhuman Arm (OTA) wave deployed 5-8 minutes after a Civil Protection (CivPro) response sweep's defeat, disrupting roleplay like hostage negotiations. Confusion arose over whether the initial sweep was "generic" or a "response" to a crime, as it was claimed to be generic, while a dispatch player called it a response sweep.

Proposals:

• Define Sweep Types: Update Rule 3.2 to explicitly define "generic" (e.g. routine patrols with no specific IC trigger) vs "response" sweeps (e.g. triggered by reported crimes, defeated waves, or specific IC events like spotting rebels). Specify or clarify whether response sweeps always trigger a 10-minute cooldown.
• Admin Oversight: Require a staff member to monitor high-stakes CvR engagements (e.g. base raids) to enforce the 10-minute timer, using in-game logs or timers to verify.

2. Standardize PK/NLR Rulings (Ref: PK Policy Section Sweep* PK's & NLR):
The PK Policy outlines specific PK scenarios and NLR conditions, but the raid saw inconsistent rulings; responding rebels were PKed, while base defenders and Combine players received NLR, some without refunds. This contradicts the PK Policy's "Not an involved party, but engaged in combat = NLR (no refund)" rule.

Proposals:

• Define an example in the "Example Scenario" column for "Not an involved party, but engaged in combat = NLR".
• Pre-Approval for PKs: Require a large staff-wide pre-approval for PKs in major raids, especially for responders, to align with the PK Policy's emphasis on fair and warranted PKs.

3. Promote Situational Roleplay Over Combat:
The rapid OTA deployment disrupted roleplay opportunities (e.g. hostage negotiations, evacuation planning and MedRP).

Proposals:

• Hostage Protocols: Add a guideline requiring Combine forces to attempt negotiations for High IC Value Characters before escalating, unless IC circumstances justify immediate action.
• Leader Training: Provide training for faction leaders (e.g. OTA lead(s)) on balancing combat and RP, with mentorship from senior staff and the like.

4. Mitigate Dual-Role Conflicts (Ref: Guidelines Section 2, Metagaming):
Players holding both rebel and Combine roles risk metagaming, as speculated in several instances, when many rebels were offline (The Front Raid as a notable example).

Proposals:

• Role Restrictions: Amend Section 2 to prohibit players from holding leadership roles in opposing factions (e.g. Rebel Group and CivPro commander) to minimize metagaming risks and conflicts of interest.
• Activity Monitoring: Require players to declare active factions during major events, with admins tracking logoffs/switches for potential metagaming or changes due to conflicts of interest (e.g. switching off Combine when certain rebels are active).

5. Enhance Staff-Player Transparency :
Some players feel uninformed about staff decisions (e.g. raid approvals, PK rulings), leading to mistrust.

Proposals:

• Event Debriefs: After events such as sweeps and/or raids, post brief admin summaries on the Willard Networks (WN) Discord or forums (e.g. "Raid approved per IC scout report; PKs issued per PK Policy...) to clarify decisions without necessarily naming players.
• Private Feedback Channel: Create a ticket system for the WN's Discord server for players to submit rule and decision concerns directly.

Please share your thoughts to refine these suggestions. Thank you for reading.

 

[Janek]

I'm in fact not gonna double down on this post with this comment.

 

[Bounter]

Just make it S2K non IC, with no loss, like TnB does, and make S2RP the real way to lose gear and characters.

On TnB, the idea is... S2K is impossible to balance and NOT fun, hence why it is like that.

I know I sound like I am high but, not sure what else you can do.

 

[NanCi_]

Just make it S2K non IC, with no loss, like TnB does, and make S2RP the real way to lose gear and characters.

On TnB, the idea is... S2K is impossible to balance and NOT fun, hence why it is like that.

I know I sound like I am high but, not sure what else you can do.

Nah too many problems with that

 

[MisterMysteryMan]

Just make it S2K non IC, with no loss, like TnB does, and make S2RP the real way to lose gear and characters.

On TnB, the idea is... S2K is impossible to balance and NOT fun, hence why it is like that.

I know I sound like I am high but, not sure what else you can do.

You've heard of a terrorist attack each day, now get ready for TEN terrorist attacks each day!

 

[NanCi_]

You've heard of a terrorist attack each day, now get ready for TEN terrorist attacks each day!

Yup. If there is legit next to 0 punishment for doing a crime. We'd need to just rename willard it to Deep gaming with the amount of shootouts that'd happen every day. If everyones complaining OTA come out too frequently wait till they come out every hour for every fuckin shootout

 

[Rabid]

The biggest flaw Combine vs Rebel engagements has, imo, is this:

What constitutes 'fun' and not wasting your time differs massively between the two factions.

Take your average rebel who goes to kill a cop but fails to do so. If they manage to escape and survive? That's still a victory for them. Its very rewarding because you get to fight another day. Even minor acts of Resistance like stealing or planting propaganda can feel good to do.

Your average cop player doesn't typically have that 'I can feel good even if I didn't get my main goal' feeling. Why? Because rebels are an all-or-nothing affair as a Combine player. If you don't directly disrupt them - which usually means capturing or killing characters or groups - then they can continue doing whatever the very next day. And that can eventually make you feel like a punching bag, or like you are wasting your time.

I also want to point out that to a degree the above does apply to rebels too - rebels are never able to inflict meaningful change via aggression unless the server is ending because of the nature of CityRP needing Combine dominance in the long-term to keep ticking.

Back to my main point: on top of the above disparity between the two factions, the very nature of the server is a total "us vs them" on an IC level. Yes you are meant to be working together OOC, but eventually someone has to lose so you can win - which usually means having your character and hours upon hours of roleplay taken away by force. If I win this engagement and kill you, you lose something. You then have a vested interest in staying alive, right?

There are very few ways for rebels and cops to interact that aren't instantly and fatally hostile, which is why everyone fights as hard as they can to survive.

 

[Bounter]

Yup. If there is legit next to 0 punishment for doing a crime. We'd need to just rename willard it to Deep gaming with the amount of shootouts that'd happen every day. If everyones complaining OTA come out too frequently wait till they come out every hour for every fuckin shootout

I guess its just too different compared to there for it to work ...

Issue is S2K sucks, and People who want to reduce TTK aint helping either.

 

[Kappatalist]

The staff and development teams have shown time and time again that they are unable or unwilling to add consistent and sustainable alternatives to the current "grind, fight, die" loop that has prevailed for the last several years on Willard. At least 60% of the gameplay systems revolve around either S2K gameplay or the acquisition of resources and materiel for S2K gameplay.

Frankly, this is the design Willard wanted. It wasn't another traditional HL2RP server, it's built from the ground-up to be autonomous and function more as an RPG - Because, well, it is.

"Discover the fresh Half-Life 2 Roleplay (HL2RP) server, featuring an overhauled combat system, gameplay and UI, forming a unique experience. Taking inspiration from games such as Divinity Original Sin and Xcom 2, we've created a new HL2RPG genre."

I'm fairly sure it was openly marketted as a HL2RPG more initially when I joined and was changed to be an RPG 'Inspired' server, but it functions the same. Grinding, fighting, and dying is the essential gameplay loop for an RPG. Roleplay is of course important, but the gameplay elements were always core to the server, and like we said the other day, that kinda comes into conflict with each other.

CvR will always be huge no matter how hard you try to balance it (If we haven't got there after 5 years, I don't think we're missing a miracle rule change or damage nerf), because that's the mentality that's core to the gameplay that Willard really focuses on. Like @Rabid said, it absolutely works and a lot of players want to do that and you can't really just rip it away from them without making fundamental changes to Willard and potentially losing those players.

You also can't just add new rules or clarify existing ones, every time it's done within a month there's another problem that shows up and new rules are added or the whole thing is voided because somebody didn't read chapter 2, page 16, line 232 of the Willard S2K bible. (Like in this thread)

The whole thing is a compromise between serious roleplay and the gameplay, and I don't think it works without accepting that it's gonna come at a cost to both of those. Which to be fair, is something Willard has consistently just dealt with. Otherwise, it needs to shift entirely in one direction or the other imo.

There was a period of time where Willard made the passive side more appealing but that was gradually squashed and strangled in favor of attracting a broader lot of semi-serious Impulse players who would be more inticed to stay around because of the "RPG" elements were front-and-center.

And while this change worked (in raw playercount the numbers are generally as good as ever) quite a lot of the people responsible for helping things initially take shape left a long time ago over the direction they saw the community going.

Spoiler

I think it was moreso that despite the RPG elements Willard leans on that passiveRP was so good around then, people were complaining about it before Willard even launched, but the players made it work regardless. But like you said they've been leaving as a result, not really over burnout or real life, but because of the problems both direct and indirect this causes. Nobody in that image plays anymore, and I know for a majority it was because of things like this. Trying to cater to two essentially different communities will lead to some from either being disappointed.

tl;dr