Implemented The Constant Scarcity of Essentials

[Takyon3]

Me bringing up a character who has been through tons of gunfights is inherently OPPOSITE of "easy survival" so I have no idea how I "proved" your point, nor have I ever disagreed with difficult survival being good for RP so long as it isn't done in a short-sighted and crappy manner.

It might seem crappy to someone who can't overcome the challenges such a system will inevitably provide. As for your risk-taking, long-lasting copper, he was probably one of the lucky ones.

Forty hours really isn't long. It's only 20 days, less than 3 weeks of 4 hour game sessions daily.

Lol, come the fuck on dude.

The main purpose of the nutrition system is to place a difference between "what you've eaten recently" versus "how much you have eaten over time". In your suggestion, you could eat a ton in one day and be fine, and then the very next day you'll drop dead. This doesn't even require an allegory or metaphor because it's literally what would happen.

I never said it wouldn't be challenging, and it will provide the server with the benefits I listed in the OP.

The tiers in my system are simply meant to show the effects of hungers, which have an impact on practically everything that uses skills/attributes outside of RP, but they are secondary to what is meant to be a much longer process than 8 hours.

Attribute penalties are not consequential enough to have any affect on people's motivations to acquire food, let alone a surplus of food.

And you are trying to remedy that by implementing an extreme that will result in the grindy nature I am talking about.

It doesn't have to be grindy if you are smart about how you secure your food and water. I can think of many ways I can find a reliable source, where I wouldn't have to grind. This is a matter for role play, for intelligence, and for creativity.

That's why I brought up grinding complaints in the first place. Why even bother roleplaying starvation when, in 3 hours, my character progress is about to come to a halt permanently?

No one said you had to roleplay starvation. Starvation will inevitably be a big part of the game with my system, so having to roleplay it constantly is stupid and I never even suggested it.

It's not a risk I would want to take, and it's going to result in people just dropping roleplay to run off to go click on scripts, assuming they didn't already have to go grinding for food scripts already.

If you have to "drop your rp" then you gotta do what you gotta do to survive. And like I said, it doesn't have to be grindy provided you know what you're doing.

Nor am I saying we should follow utter realism, or it'd be much longer than 40 or 80 hours. That's why I suggested shortening it for food and increasing it for water, so as to balance it out.

It's too long.

 

[Takyon3]

As for the suggestion itself, it fails to consider the negatives of such a change. 2 hours to eat food before your health starts to drop is simply too short. It goes beyond a "difficulty" change and into an interruption of RP.

I have explained why it must be punishing.

People will either be grinding for food scripts

You don't have to grind for it, there are other ways to secure food and water. The very act of acquiring food will transcend the RP of the server like I have listed in the OP.

It's far too similar to survival games like RUST and doesn't accomodate for what would be long term RP, especially when said RP usually comes in sessions that CAN last 2 hours.

Just because it's similar to other games doesn't mean it's bad or ineffective in some way. And of course it doesn't "accommodate" long-term rp, I explained why it shouldn't previously.

Unless something is done to increase the time needed before starvation, and the actual process to starvation is made to be more than "eat two food items and refill all hunger", than this suggestion will remain too penalizing, too demanding, and too shallow in my eyes. It doesn't have my support.

Read my OP properly next time. Most of your points have been addressed in the OP. THE OP, EQUINOX!!! THE OP!!!!!!

 

[verTix]

make players know what happens when their hunger/thirst hits zero. maybe at different percentages you get a message in chat like

75% - I could use a bite to eat.
50% - My stomach's starting to rumble.
25% - I really need to get some food in me.
10% - If I don't eat soon, I'm going to die.
0% - Death or timer to death

same thing goes with drinking. i don't care how long it takes to starve/dehydrate as long as i know what happens script-wise when i do starve or dehydrate

the scarcity of food should be inversely related to the speed of starvation and dehydration also

 

[RedHotGinger]

if you can't eat a decent meal every 1.5 to 2 IC hours, then your character should die of starvation.

While I am not against the idea of increased scarcity itself, this is simply way too overzealous a timeframe. IRL it can take weeks for you to literally die of starvation. Scarcity, if it were to be implemented, should still be more of a incentive rather than a double-barrel at your forehead. The incentive currently is pretty passive since even at its worse state, stat decreases are the worst you will experience (Not exactly a big issue for civs who do not regularly make use of such things)

So I do not think its an inherently bad idea to have starvation be a thing but it should still be pretty generous in its time allowance simply because it isn't fun chasing bars every other hour. When someone does eat, it should also provide a fair amount in order to facilitate progress and allow it to be put out of the mind for a while, just as it is IRL. Enough to apply a certain, expectant pressure. Not so much that it becomes a chain dragging behind you every step of the way.

now imagine a Combine occupied city, where this would presumably be ramped up to 11. People should be dying everyday on the server out of starvation, because they were not equipped enough as roleplayers to get what they wanted.

Will also mention this is overestimating how bad it is within urban centers. Things vary between cities but City 24 is certainly not one where people are regularly dying from starvation. The Combine do keep a tight hold on supplies but they don't withhold them to such an extent because that would very much just piss everyone off quite exorbitantly. Theres a point to where oppression becomes counter-intuitive after all.

 

[Takyon3]

While I am not against the idea of increased scarcity itself, this is simply way too overzealous a timeframe.

It's punishing enough so players will value food, and when players value something, creative means can be applied to make a lot of it, and also secure a reliable supply of it. Any more leeway given with regards to starvation, and you begin cracking down on its importance. 1.5 to 2 hours is perfect in my opinion, and it should be tested on the server.

IRL it can take weeks for you to literally die of starvation.

Of course, but I've already mentioned why comparing this to real life is pointless. The current system doesn't reflect real life, neither does my own in the OP.

Scarcity, if it were to be implemented, should still be more of a incentive rather than a double-barrel at your forehead. The incentive currently is pretty passive since even at its worse state, stat decreases are the worst you will experience (Not exactly a big issue for civs who do not regularly make use of such things)

I disagree. Starvation is something that should be constantly looming over your head. Passive means of implementing starvation will not be enough to ignite a cut-throat food economy within the server. Stat decreases are simply not enough.

So I do not think its an inherently bad idea to have starvation be a thing but it should still be pretty generous in its time allowance simply because it isn't fun chasing bars every other hour. When someone does eat, it should also provide a fair amount in order to facilitate progress and allow it to be put out of the mind for a while, just as it is IRL. Enough to apply a certain, expectant pressure. Not so much that it becomes a chain dragging behind you every step of the way.

1.5 to 2 hours until death from starvation is what I ask, I've been thinking about it, I didn't pull the number out of my ass. This is what is required in order to make food important enough to see the server-wide benefits at full effect.

Will also mention this is overestimating how bad it is within urban centers. Things vary between cities but City 24 is certainly not one where people are regularly dying from starvation. The Combine do keep a tight hold on supplies but they don't withhold them to such an extent because that would very much just piss everyone off quite exorbitantly. Theres a point to where oppression becomes counter-intuitive after all.

People get their rations, but the rations alone should not sustain you for a long period of time. You need to work to secure your bread, and sometimes even that's not enough. Hence, black markets will form, and interesting means will be created to secure food.

 

[Deleted member 624]

As for the suggestion itself, it fails to consider the negatives of such a change. 2 hours to eat food before your health starts to drop is simply too short. It goes beyond a "difficulty" change and into an interruption of RP. People will either be grinding for food scripts, or dropping (what would be a constant state of near-death starvation RP) to run off and desperately scrounge up food scripts. It's far too similar to survival games like RUST and doesn't accomodate for what would be long term RP, especially when said RP usually comes in sessions that CAN last 2 hours.

Unless something is done to increase the time needed before starvation, and the actual process to starvation is made to be more than "eat two food items and refill all hunger", than this suggestion will remain too penalizing, too demanding, and too shallow in my eyes. It doesn't have my support.

A server had sped up where one day was 1.5 hours, and it lead to much rp to be had.

Once a 1.5 hour I would get rations for breakfast, once a 1.5 hours I would take part in a workshift and once a 1.5 hours there would be a curfew.

Considering a sped up gameplay will make you feel like your character actually progresses through the cycles of the day and getting hungry at realistic times of the day.

However when real life is debated into hl2rp it becomes fubar to your basic needs. You are playing hl2rp as yourself in hl2rp with real time. The fact you came on from 16:00 to 20:00 meant that so did your character. And in that time your character had 4 hourly ration snacks. With that logic the combine does not have any interest of oppressing citizens which makes no sense with the context of hl2.

By the logic of having 24/h cycles, it would only make sense to limit a real life day to 3 rations only with one at 6 am, 12 am and 6 pm

Scaling Real life time to 1:1 does not belong in a video game

 

[Imperator RAD-X]

"Keep your friends close, but your food closer..."​

If you guys remember back in City 24_v2, people were starving quite often and there was a fisherman who would reel in leeches at the river on his boat, cook them in a pot in a fire and have them ready to eat after taking civvies to try and purchase ingredients. The amount of people rushing over there to get free leech food was epic because the store clerks and the Combine were often unavailable unless rations were announced. Even if it was a semi-perilous journey because of leech water boat-to-boat jumping (some often ending up in the clinic near dead), it sparked a LOT of good roleplay scenarios.

My own personal view is that the systems are put in place as a temporary challenge to overcome and can definitely produce its own roleplay environments spontaneously. Developmental awareness just comes to mind. The matter in which can be stated from me is I won't mind food scarcity to put in the looming fear factor of starvation, though a positive Catch-22 should be present to negate.

I'll think of something for main release. Threads like these are pretty cool and respected.

 

[KazonGT1126]

Yeah, I agree.

 

[Equinox]

A server had sped up where one day was 1.5 hours, and it lead to much rp to be had.

Once a 1.5 hour I would get rations for breakfast, once a 1.5 hours I would take part in a workshift and once a 1.5 hours there would be a curfew.

Considering a sped up gameplay will make you feel like your character actually progresses through the cycles of the day and getting hungry at realistic times of the day.

However when real life is debated into hl2rp it becomes fubar to your basic needs. You are playing hl2rp as yourself in hl2rp with real time. The fact you came on from 16:00 to 20:00 meant that so did your character. And in that time your character had 4 hourly ration snacks. With that logic the combine does not have any interest of oppressing citizens which makes no sense with the context of hl2.

By the logic of having 24/h cycles, it would only make sense to limit a real life day to 3 rations only with one at 6 am, 12 am and 6 pm

Scaling Real life time to 1:1 does not belong in a video game

At no point have I ever advocated or even implied 24 hour cycles, or anything close to even half that time. I bring up realism because HL2RP is set in a realistic world beset by extraordinary conditions. There is a balance here and I’ve seen servers run just as well (AND poorly) with long (12-24 hour) cycles as with short ones (1-3 hours). 4 hours is based on the average play time of a person when considering time zones as well, which is what I’m suggesting.

 

[Deleted member 624]

At no point have I ever advocated or even implied 24 hour cycles, or anything close to even half that time. I bring up realism because HL2RP is set in a realistic world beset by extraordinary conditions. There is a balance here and I’ve seen servers run just as well (AND poorly) with long (12-24 hour) cycles as with short ones (1-3 hours). 4 hours is based on the average play time of a person when considering time zones as well, which is what I’m suggesting.

Realism will become cursed if you try to add it by too much, it makes more sense of focussing on the gameplay.

If you have 4 hours to play a day, it would be a much enjoyable experience to have 2 days pass in the session.

You'll see your character deteriorate from the needs he has for the two days, which is better than walking in circles since you have an actual motive to keep yourself alive.

 

[Atle]

HOWEVER! We will look into the possibility of implementing DEATH if you don't eat food before... Say... 5 days? So that's something we can look into eventually and wont piss off an ocean of people in the process

 

[Takyon3]

HOWEVER! We will look into the possibility of implementing DEATH if you don't eat food before... Say... 5 days? So that's something we can look into eventually and wont piss off an ocean of people in the process

Five days is far too long. Considering what Chair said earlier, your character probably should be eating two or three meals each session (4 hours) to stay out of starvation and then death. What may seem harsh at first, will eventually balance itself out. Food-related businesses will begin to profit and prosper (which, I believe, will add to the atmosphere you're looking for in C24_V3), and they will find ways of producing more food with the cooking system. Black markets will begin to form, as various groups use food as a means of bartering. No one will use food to barter if it takes five days to starve, it will simply be too valueless. And regular citizens may look up to loyalists, and value their IC relations with them, as they would be a potential source of extra resources in case they really need it from them.

You see, people will seek out solutions to this seemingly troublesome problem of starvation, and this is how RP and stories are formed.

 

[Robert]

Moving this to accepted (Not yet implemented)

It won't be seen in the beta nor the launch most likely but it will come in later. We have made a trello card on our development board to improve upon our current hunger/thirst systems in order to make them riskier and thus boost the food/water businesses. It won't be so harsh that it is unplayable like how many other servers have attempted barely thought out hunger systems in the past, but we will make sure to test and refine it as much as we need before any form of implementation towards players.

On top of this, we will look into ways to making food and water more scarce as this post mentions, but not so rare that it gets anywhere near hard to find. Just requires only a slight amount of luck every now and then since we don't want to make such so scarce that it becomes a battle for food and water each day just to avoid death, that would be silly and interrupt RP.

Overall, we are thinking on ways to implement this without throwing a wrench in the gears of peoples fun, enjoyment and roleplay. Just note it may take a long time before being implemented due to the difficultly of such a topic in the rp game setting. But yes, I do agree with some points made here because I want to make sure food and water businesses get their fair share of customers and hopefully put them on par with clothing store customer counts due to the high rent incurred on them at the beginning which may be harder for such businesses.