Vera Tanović PK Appeal

[Kitty]

Steam ID: STEAM_0:1:44624629
Steam Name: Kitty
Discord Name: kittyrina.
Character Name: Vera Tanović

Reason for Appeal:
Originally, I was not going to make an appeal for Vera, but after the insistence of several people, here I am. My main goal has been to be informed and have things be clarified, some of which require staff to look into the logs. I want to say that I have nothing against any of the people involved and hope they enjoyed my character all the way through.

Counter-Evidence/Arguments:
I am not 100% certain on everything Vera is being accused of, so I think it would be best for me to give any arguments only after Lavoie's player tells their side, and logs are checked.

Proof of Counter-Evidence:
I unfortunately do not have access to the logs. Anyone with access can verify or correct my claims. If it helps, I think the rooftop incident occurred on the 16th, though I am not 100% sure on this.

Additional Information:
Tagging @Wraygun so he can write his piece, but I am sure they can mention any other relevant party should others be needed. This thread should also be private in order to prevent metagaming.

 

[Wraygun]

I'll preface this by saying that PKs are to me the last resort on usual basis and that PKing Vera was more of a choice of self-preservation than anything. Her killing was not done based on rumors and lies which she did not do, but rather on an on-going grudge that was present from the start of the event, before the elections.

The fact that Vera threatened cops with killing their family members is an IC lie, for me to get them to kill Vera. I want to note that PKs are a very heavy-handed solution and it wasn't even the plan to begin with, especially with how harsh the PK rulings are. The reason why my character decided to kill Vera can be summed up pretty easily by these points here:

- There was a degree of hostility (minor, but significant enough to drive my character to hold a grudge against her) every time my character has encountered her. This has culminated during the meeting with the ministers (players were lost&found, Liam, CatHusky) who held a meeting. I was present during that meeting, and it was regarding the rooftop struggle where my character and officer King (@Tea) fought off Vera.

- To clarify this whole rooftop fight more, it was based on the fact that my character did rescue Vera from a riot. Naturally, like every cop-asshole that is selfish and arrogant that is in this precinct, he expected to have some sort of leverage when it came to her. Officer King and my cop asked Vera to help us out, but from what I gathered with Kitty in DMs she has no knowledge of such. Which confuses me and the rest of the cops that were there, due to the fact that we did ask her to help us out in a way multiple times before the fight.

- Vera began to yell, and my cop didn't have any of it, because it didn't answer any of the questions that both me and King asked her. Which was, again, for help to get out of here. We wanted something for her rescue to the hospital.

- My character slapped Vera, and Vera told him that he is not like Okada and she won't let herself be slapped around like that. I do not remember the exact wording, but it came across to my char and officer King as a threat, which is why we had the struggle on the rooftops to begin with.

I want to also note that Lieutenant Shin (played by Ashley) suggested killing Vera. But that alone did not seal the deal. What happened next, was the meeting with the ministers, where my cop was called out by Vera and insulted numerous times, which only adds insult to injury in the eyes of my char. Again, CatHusky, Liam, and the person who plays Freja Lund all were present. Without needlessly complicating things, the bickering can be summarized down to just this:
>"you lied"
>"no u"

I think the glass was basically full here, given that my character believed that the lieutenancy (my char is on good terms with only one lieutenant, but distrustful of others) was about to have him murdered over lies, disinformation and other things. It's why my character acted out of self-preservation, and because he held this grudge for so long. It was a choice that he had to make.

I also want to note that the precinct did retaliate against the governor's killers, by having one severely punished, and the other one shot.

Not of any relevance, but wanted to point out that I think Vera's death perfectly suits a narrative one, and that it had a big domino effect on my character, and the characters around. The screenshot below is basically the start of our fight.

 

[Kitty]

Before I begin, please verify any claim I make via logs or whatever means are available. Now on to the first point.

- Vera first met Lavoie during the railway riot, at which point he brought her to the clinic where they had a lovely chat while waiting out the storm (not exactly a hostile encounter). The next time they met was when Vera was called to the precinct, at which point she was escorted up to the rooftop by King, Lavoie, Scordato and a fourth person I do not remember (Maybe Kastel? Shin? Not too important). Scordato and the other person leave, leaving only Lavoie and King. At this point, Vera was not given an elaborate explanation as to why she was brought up to the rooftop, having assumed that the Lieutenants wanted to talk to her about something, only to excuse themselves due to some other matter they needed to attend. Vera makes small talk with Lavoie to pass the time as she does not know if the Lieutenants will return or not. (A conversation which I recall being pleasant, up until the moment Vera is attacked at which point it obviously got hostile, which obviously surprised me both IC and OOC seeing as I've been trying to learn the reason even a week after Vera's death. Will get into more detail on my second point). The final time Vera ever sees Lavoie is during the meeting with the ministers, where Vera is accused of holding a knife to the throat of Lavoie's niece. I only recall Vera attempting to defend herself against the lies that she was being slandered with. Tense? Obviously, given that the man who assaulted Vera was in the room right next to her, but I do not recall anything overtly insulting otherwise.
- A bit more detail on the rooftop talk, I do not exactly remember the whole thing, but I do recall the conversation moving to the state of the district and how everything is fucked, at which point Vera says that she will obviously not shoo away opportunity if it came to her lap from the sky. Soon after, the pair assault Vera. Think Lavoie also said something about the Governor not cooperating with them to King before jumping her, not entirely sure. Still, no offer or favor, directly or indirectly was refused.

- I remember using /yell only after Vera is attacked, even remember us talking about it briefly in LOOC.

- Her comment about the smack in the face (which if I recall correctly happens right before the attack properly begins) is in reference to Vera slapping Okada earlier while he was covering in a corner. Point being that a Sergeant can't just bitch slap the Governor like that. I do not see how this is a threat to them, if anything laying a hand on Vera is obviously the threat here.

Vera has been purely on the defensive, having to constantly defend herself from attacks and slander, while Lavoie was never in any danger, seeing as everyone was on his side, believing his lies, not even a hand being raised after he assaulted the Governor, to the witness of two ministers as well as a lieutenant no less. Now it is being claimed that she was killed in self-preservation, which is a bit odd. How can it be self-preservation when even the lieutenants are suggesting that Vera be killed due to Lavoie's lies? If the claim is that his lies about Vera were about to get him killed, which spearheading the murder of Vera would get him double targeted, how can Lavoie claim to be in any danger? The simple answer is that he was never in any danger, the lack of consequences he suffered after Vera's death being the obvious evidence. It was not like Vera had some untold information, revealing of which would have damned Lavoie. She had already said her truth from day one, which nobody believed her for, yet this was escalated to murder anyway. A pointless death.

I am also obviously not getting into others being used to kill Vera as that is part of the whole lie section, which claims that the death was not due to said lies, so I leave that up to you all to decide if it is relevant or not.

 

[Wraygun]

- Vera first met Lavoie during the railway riot,

Fundamentally wrong, I was the masked cop that visited the city. Our quarrel goes much further, and you chalking it down to just a railway riot is dismissing roleplay. Much like the comments (which I am sure can be verified through logs, where you told my cop to "stop gawking".

How can it be self-preservation when even the lieutenants are suggesting that Vera be killed due to Lavoie's lies?

You like chalking it down to just black and white when it's much more complex. Scordato, Shin, they don't necessarily share a good opinion of my sergeant. It's three lieutenants, and only one wanted to kill you, while the other two did not.

given that the man who assaulted Vera was in the room right next to her, but I do not recall anything overtly insulting otherwise

It caused problems to me with the other cops. I refuse to go into detail, but the cop that was with me spilled the beans to the others. It is why I had people coming up to me (Katrien, one of the female cops that killed Vera) pushing my character towards your death. ALONGSIDE the fact that they believed you threatened their families. Lavoie did have to act on this, because if the allegations that he made proved false it could have landed him being killed. I hope providing this conjuncture helps, but yes.

while Lavoie was never in any danger,

Fundamentally wrong as well. Laying hands on you, garnered Lavoie a terrible reputation among command. Lieutenant Kastel, if she would find out about what happened on the rooftop, alongside Shin would tear Lavoie a new one for even hitting the governor.

I remember using /yell only after Vera is attacked, even remember us talking about it briefly in LOOC.

Logs should prove otherwise. Vera got slapped because she yelled. Escalating that conversation through yelling was what led to the fight to begin with.

She had already said her truth from day one, which nobody believed her for, yet this was escalated to murder anyway. A pointless death.

You're missing a lot of information on what Lavoie's situation is, and saying that it was a pointless death is outright insulting and dismissive of any roleplay that took place. The death had purpose, a good reason as to why, and it was actually pivotal for my character's life. Yes, it was escalated to murder, because that is the one and only choice of where my character would live.

I can refute even more of the points here but I kind of had enough of repeating the same things, so I will put it plain and simple once more: Vera got killed because,

1. My cop has had a grudge against her, almost every interaction with Vera was just terrible.
2. Lavoie rescued Vera to the clinic, he moved her away from the Railway riot, and has hoped he might've gained a favor. That did in fact not happen, and when we approached you for help asking for a way out of here, it was precisely us calling in our favor.
3. Lavoie had to kill the governor, or he might've ended dead himself. I've had subordinates telling me to take action (Katrien Van Dijk, played by @melodicwaste), and things might have turned out very ugly for me. If the other two lieutenants would find out the details about this, it also won't look pretty.
4. The ministerial meeting did not reflect well on Lavoie, and you making that exchange infront of another cop (that spilled the information further to the others) put me at danger, due to how it gave grounds for my character to be exposed.

I'm going to end this post here, but yes. This is what it comes down to, regardless of how you try to word things. I only hope for the logs to be posted soon. You got a lot of stuff mixed here (such as Lavoie's niece, he has a daughter, not a niece. King has a niece) but I'll abstain from nitpicking everything apart.

Edit: Vera knew from the start what she was in for the moment she ran for governor. The stakes were high, and if you were in Milada's place, you'd have crumbled day one since the coup started. Vera wanting the position so badly, means that the position was more important for her than responsibility as a whole.

 

[Kitty]

where you told my cop to "stop gawking"

I recall either one of the bodyguards (you in this case) or the suit (do not remember if it was a D7 Councillor or someone from the Captaincy) commenting about how the peasants of D1 were gawking at them in the street. I think you might be confusing that with Vera, though logs will tell everything.


As for the part about the lieutenants:

I want to also note that Lieutenant Shin (played by Ashley) suggested killing Vera

First it is Shin making the plans

Scordato, Shin, they don't necessarily share a good opinion of my sergeant.

Then suddenly her and Scordato don't agree with it all, leaving Kastel as the lieutenant in question

Lieutenant Kastel, if she would find out about what happened on the rooftop, alongside Shin would tear Lavoie a new one for even hitting the governor.

But here her and Shin are the ones against him, leaving Scordato as the lieutenant that agrees with Lavoie

Each lieutenant has been mentioned both for and against. So which is it? Are they in cahoots with him? Or are they supposedly a threat to him? Would love a clarification.

It caused problems to me with the other cops. I refuse to go into detail, but the cop that was with me spilled the beans to the others.

So, the lie that Lavoie told to others himself, an action which he made, caused him to sink deeper into the mud of his own making. I fail to see how that is Vera's fault. Also I feel like a PK appeal is the perfect time to not refuse to go into details, but that is just me.

I'll wait for the logs to be posted for everything else.

 

[Wraygun]

 

[CatHusky]

Would like to point out that we planned to kill Vera after that meeting where we accused her because her answer to every one of our questions regarding it was "I don't know." And then she tried to contradict an officer in the room with us and made under-handed remarks to the Officers, essentially accusing them of lying.

If she had been earnest about what had happened and not answered everything with "I don't know" we might have shown some leverage but Okada was planning to kill her anyway the moment she won that governors election.

The fact that we then get reports of her apparently bribing cops to rig the election for her and then her threatening cops families, regardless of ability to carry out those threats, warranted her death more-so. She also carolled a large crowd of her supporters essentially threatening a riot if she didn't win and attempting to demand that she count the votes. None of this exactly put her in a good light to begin with. The whole 'Rooftop' incident was just pouring gasolene on a fire.

Vera had been actively making enemies within the government and precinct whether she knew it or not but her actions did cause a lot of resentment to build up. There were more than enough reasons to kill her.

The unfortunate matter is that Vera was so focused on trying to gain power by making friends with the people she failed to make friends with authority, which ultimately caused her death. If she had played the game fairly, accepted a Ministerial position, not threatened a riot if she didn't get Governor, not gone on a terrorists radio broadcast that called for the Ministers deaths. She likely would have been in Government as a Minister regardless.

In conclusion, a LOT of people in power with means, opportunity and motive wanted her dead, if one group didn't kill her first it would have been another. For the sake of metagaming I will not reveal the total number of people conspiring Vera's death but there were numerous different groups all plotting as such.

 

[TheGamingPlumber]

Can

Would like to point out that we planned to kill Vera after that meeting where we accused her because her answer to every one of our questions regarding it was "I don't know." And then she tried to contradict an officer in the room with us and made under-handed remarks to the Officers, essentially accusing them of lying.

If she had been earnest about what had happened and not answered everything with "I don't know" we might have shown some leverage but Okada was planning to kill her anyway the moment she won that governors election.

The fact that we then get reports of her apparently bribing cops to rig the election for her and then her threatening cops families, regardless of ability to carry out those threats, warranted her death more-so. She also carolled a large crowd of her supporters essentially threatening a riot if she didn't win and attempting to demand that she count the votes. None of this exactly put her in a good light to begin with. The whole 'Rooftop' incident was just pouring gasolene on a fire.

Vera had been actively making enemies within the government and precinct whether she knew it or not but her actions did cause a lot of resentment to build up. There were more than enough reasons to kill her.

The unfortunate matter is that Vera was so focused on trying to gain power by making friends with the people she failed to make friends with authority, which ultimately caused her death. If she had played the game fairly, accepted a Ministerial position, not threatened a riot if she didn't get Governor, not gone on a terrorists radio broadcast that called for the Ministers deaths. She likely would have been in Government as a Minister regardless.

In conclusion, a LOT of people in power with means, opportunity and motive wanted her dead, if one group didn't kill her first it would have been another. For the sake of metagaming I will not reveal the total number of people conspiring Vera's death but there were numerous different groups all plotting as such.

Can you please elaborate on the comments made so we are able to verify through the logs and look at the conversations.

 

[Kitty]

her answer to every one of our questions regarding it was "I don't know."

If she had been earnest about what had happened and not answered everything with "I don't know"

Well, she did not know why she was attacked in the first place, I OOCLY did not know why she was attacked in the first place, even after a week of her death. The whole point of the appeal is to learn the reasons why. So it is as earnest an answer as it gets.

we then get reports of her apparently bribing cops to rig the election for her and then her threatening cops families, regardless of ability to carry out those threats, warranted her death more-so

The lies of which I am told are not part of the PK reason, so I fail to see how it warrants her death here.

She also carolled a large crowd of her supporters essentially threatening a riot if she didn't win and attempting to demand that she count the votes.

She only stated that the Ministerial Decree was undemocratic, no call for violence was ever made by her and nothing about the threat of a riot was said by her either.

She never demanded to count the votes, only wishing to be an observer in the process. Once she was denied to even look at the votes being counted, she asked that a random civilian or two be there as witnesses, seeing as the vote count only had ministers present with the counting, the very same ones that had attempted to undermine the democratic process in the first place with their own actions earlier. So I would say it was reasonable to be skeptical of only allowing ministers to do the counting with no outside observers. Please do not twist her words and say she "demanded to do the counting".

Vera had been actively making enemies within the government and precinct

Her broadcast was literally demanding that the precinct's orders be followed, unsure as to how she is gaining enemies there by siding with them on the governor race issue. Vera also goes out of her way not to make any ministerial position changes after she is elected, even though the same ministers had conspired to undermine the whole race and rug pull the people, the same people demanding that Okada's position be removed as well. Vera makes a conscious effort to not only keep Okada in his current position, but also try to mediate between Ivar's people and the Appachi in order to calm things down and stop the cycle of people going for the throat. Okada's player can confirm this, though from what I know, he is banned right now.

Okada was planning to kill her anyway

Except.. he did not kill her. If he was the one that PK'd her things might have been different, but I fail to see how it is relevant to this appeal.

not threatened a riot if she didn't get Governor

Which she did not do.

not gone on a terrorists radio broadcast that called for the Ministers deaths

Chucky's actions are his own. Ask @Kamilisha Haijulikani what he was going to say whether Vera joined the broadcast or not. For all I know, he was going to molotov the clinic even if Vera wasn't online.

She likely would have been in Government as a Minister regardless.

Being in a higher up position of power is irrelevant to her. I explicitly state many times that her gripes are about the undermining of the democratic process. I do not see ministers attempting to murder cops because they kept their original word and let it stay a governor race either.

​

None of the points above were in the original PK reasons so I am unsure as to why they are being brought up. "Somebody would have killed her anyway" is a moot argument. I also find it interesting that Nadine's player jumps from "Vera's only interactions with Nadine are that she did surgery on her and she helped organize the clinic donation event" to "We need to kill Vera and spread lies about her."

​

Lies of which were not just kept to and spread in IC chat from the looks of it. Yikes. I defer to the staff team's judgement.

 

[Kamilisha Haijulikani]

Chucky's actions are his own. Ask @Kamilisha Haijulikani what he was going to say whether Vera joined the broadcast or not. For all I know, he was going to molotov the clinic even if Vera wasn't online.

Calling Chuck Brier a terrorist is subjective. I prefer the term hero.

But yes, Chuck Brier essentially pulled the wool over Vera's eyes with that provocative broadcast by not informing her of his intentions and even mischaracterizing what the broadcast was for (presenting it as more of a denouncement of the Ministries than a full-on attack).

I still don't think he made any explicit threats beyond overthrowing the Ministries, which, by then, was an entitled position to hold. As soon as Vera finished her broadcast, Chuck ushered her out of the room and began his own. I even recall her commenting against the violence as it was forming.

Not commenting on the merit of the PK, but confirming what was said.

If she had played the game fairly

 

[lost&found]

If I may butt in as Lund in this case:

I feel that Lavoie tried to press Vera, Vera fought back and that lead to Lavoie wanting to protect himself because he realized how large of a mistake he's made, and wanted to cover his ass and the only way out was through killing Vera. I was awaiting a response in regards to a specific comment Vera made but it was never brought up at all by Lavoie's player, which I originally thought was going to be the 'valid' reason of the killing.

Vera wanted Lavoie sanctioned and punished greatly for his crimes of attempting to attack the Governor, said in a private room with very few people that are not involved in this situation. Did you have IC proof that she wanted a get-back? Because if this is a valid case, I can agitate anyone I want until they get pressed enough to want to retaliate, and then when I feel cornered, I just kill them.

A grudge is irrelevant, with the way things are right now, you could PK anyone who suspects you because of your...rather loose reasoning for killing? It seems loop-holey to me that you can act on people's lives to cover up your character's rather aggressive behaviour. The lies about her threatening your family were one thing, but even then I doubt that it should give grounds for anyone to PK Vera, I could lie that Lavoie killed Lund's mother and get everyone to hang him, would you be content with that PK?

I personally think that by pressing her the way Lavoie did, she should have grounds to PK you, but not the other way around, otherwise it is a very easy method of gaining a free PK on anyone.

I harbor no ill-will to you, to be clear, I just think that the reasonings were insufficient in my eyes as someone who's been there halfway through.

 

[Kitty]

Vera wanted Lavoie sanctioned and punished greatly for his crimes of attempting to attack the Governor, said in a private room with very few people that are not involved in this situation. Did you have IC proof that she wanted a get-back?

I want to add to this by saying that Vera took no escalating actions once it was clear that she was not going to get any justice. Once the lieutenants decided that Lavoie was not going to be punished, she did not attempt to sabotage him further, or call upon a third party to harm him. She simply took it on the chin, and went back to dealing with whatever new crises D1 was thrown into.

 

[ashley]

I want to also note that Lieutenant Shin (played by Ashley) suggested killing Vera.

not directly involved in Vera's murder, just wanted to comment on the matter given that I play Lieutenant Shin.

the following statement 'suggested killing Vera' has more nuance to it rather than it being a planned out homicide attempt; the implication was made as a retort to Lavoie's words about Vera threatening one of her own Sergeant's families - and was a heat in the moment implication based on emotions/personal feelings rather than a direct order per se.

regardless of how it goes -- I too habor no ill-intentions toward anyone involved and hope that this can be resolved in an amicable manner

 

[Wraygun]

A grudge is irrelevant, with the way things are right now, you could PK anyone who suspects you

I think it matters, but it obviously was not the sole reason for her death. It's about being put in a life or death situation that spiraled out of my control. The grudge is not the sole reason here, but it is yet another motivator as to why Lavoie had her killed.

I harbor no ill-will to you, to be clear, I just think that the reasonings were insufficient in my eyes as someone who's been there halfway through.

Yeah, I can see why you think that way, and it's respectable. To me, it's about the matter of living and dying, and my character had to choose between letting Vera live, and him dying, or he lives, and Vera dies. That is what it all sums up to. It was obvious what Lavoie's choice was going to be, given the circumstances.

 

[lost&found]

I think it matters, but it obviously was not the sole reason for her death. It's about being put in a life or death situation that spiraled out of my control. The grudge is not the sole reason here, but it is yet another motivator as to why Lavoie had her killed.

I suppose a grudge will nudge him to getting rid of her yes, but that should be the fuel to a pre-existing flame, one that (from my perspective) he stoked. He put himself in a life or death situation by doing what he did the way he did it, and in turn had to sacrifice Vera to recover. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's just how it looks like from where I stand.

I don't know the PK rules fully but if someone had terrible intentions(which I don't think you have them!) they could use this method of 'try something -> it fails -> get threatened -> kill them' as a viable method of getting authorization to permanently kill someone. But I don't know

 

[Wraygun]

I don't know the PK rules fully but if someone had terrible intentions(which I don't think you have them!) they could use this method of 'try something -> it fails -> get threatened -> kill them' as a viable method of getting authorization to permanently kill someone. But I don't know

suppose a grudge will nudge him to getting rid of her yes, but that should be the fuel to a pre-existing flame,

Agree with you fully on this loop btw, can be abused to hand out PKs and what not. For myself, I'd say that this is not the case though, because it was not me directly who stoked the flames here. Lavoie was called names by the governor first, and things only escalated from here.

And I know it looks like I'm trying to argue my way that insults warrant a PK, but the grudge is the fuel to an already going conflict. Vera wasn't hated by my cop for no reason of course, especially given that he felt he was wronged by her after literally saving her from an armed Railway mob at the precinct.

 

[Kitty]

Some context for those who are not in the loop about "Vera being saved" as it seems to be brought up often. I am not omniscient, so I encourage anyone to correct me if I'm wrong.

After a railway worker was killed by an officer of the precinct, an armed group of company men gathered at the precinct gates. Vera was then moved from the precinct to the clinic via the side entrance of the precinct courtyard. Vera, Lavoie, and doctors of the clinic sit inside the backroom and wait until the heat dies down. That is the whole event from Vera's perspective.

After witnessing the Governor’s relocation, none of the railway personnel gave chase. She was not called by any of them (as far as I can tell at least), and no shots were fired Vera's way. Of course this makes sense, as Vera had nothing to do with the killing of the railway workers in the first place. It seems more like Vera was moved as a precaution, in case the railway attempted anything as revenge. I would argue that Lieutenant Shin risked her life more as she made the conscious decision to use herself as a human shield for Vera, while Lavoie simply moved her from point A to B. He wasn't exactly fighting hordes of men to save Vera's life.

 

[Wraygun]

Lavoie simply moved her from point A to B

Yeah, which proved to be vital, given the fact that the Railway started shooting civvies in the streets. Easy to reduce it to that, but the context that I mentioned in the first sentence should give you an idea that a risk was taken. I did spoke about it with Shin, which way to go, and where after all.

 

[CatHusky]

Well, she did not know why she was attacked in the first place, I OOCLY did not know why she was attacked in the first place, even after a week of her death. The whole point of the appeal is to learn the reasons why. So it is as earnest an answer as it gets.



The lies of which I am told are not part of the PK reason, so I fail to see how it warrants her death here.


She only stated that the Ministerial Decree was undemocratic, no call for violence was ever made by her and nothing about the threat of a riot was said by her either.

She never demanded to count the votes, only wishing to be an observer in the process. Once she was denied to even look at the votes being counted, she asked that a random civilian or two be there as witnesses, seeing as the vote count only had ministers present with the counting, the very same ones that had attempted to undermine the democratic process in the first place with their own actions earlier. So I would say it was reasonable to be skeptical of only allowing ministers to do the counting with no outside observers. Please do not twist her words and say she "demanded to do the counting".


Her broadcast was literally demanding that the precinct's orders be followed, unsure as to how she is gaining enemies there by siding with them on the governor race issue. Vera also goes out of her way not to make any ministerial position changes after she is elected, even though the same ministers had conspired to undermine the whole race and rug pull the people, the same people demanding that Okada's position be removed as well. Vera makes a conscious effort to not only keep Okada in his current position, but also try to mediate between Ivar's people and the Appachi in order to calm things down and stop the cycle of people going for the throat. Okada's player can confirm this, though from what I know, he is banned right now.

Except.. he did not kill her. If he was the one that PK'd her things might have been different, but I fail to see how it is relevant to this appeal.


Which she did not do.


Chucky's actions are his own. Ask @Kamilisha Haijulikani what he was going to say whether Vera joined the broadcast or not. For all I know, he was going to molotov the clinic even if Vera wasn't online.


Being in a higher up position of power is irrelevant to her. I explicitly state many times that her gripes are about the undermining of the democratic process. I do not see ministers attempting to murder cops because they kept their original word and let it stay a governor race either.

​

None of the points above were in the original PK reasons so I am unsure as to why they are being brought up. "Somebody would have killed her anyway" is a moot argument. I also find it interesting that Nadine's player jumps from "Vera's only interactions with Nadine are that she did surgery on her and she helped organize the clinic donation event" to "We need to kill Vera and spread lies about her."

View attachment 53533​

Lies of which were not just kept to and spread in IC chat from the looks of it. Yikes. I defer to the staff team's judgement.

My issue with this response is that you're presenting a lot of your opinions as facts.

So, you went onto a terrorists broadcast and incited a riot against the government, a riot then ensued which resulted in Pierre almost being killed. It also resulted in the same people you made that broadcast with throwing a Molotov at Kastel. You then also refused to come forward with details and information about this terrorist until we had to interrogate it out of you in the Ministers meeting, and even then left out details.
Pierre and a whole host of others + the clinic being vandalised in the process was reason alone to have you killed. You were actually extremely lucky you weren't branded a terrorist the second you touched that broadcast.

A good measure in the future might be not to make inflammatory remarks denouncing the government you're aiming to join and undermining them on a public broadcast to the entire district while political tensions are already at a boiling point. You did these things to get public opinion but in response made an enemy of the precinct and government.

During the voting itself, one civil protection officer even came into the precinct demanding you be disbarred for the behaviour of the crowd you had amassed outside during the voting itself, there were genuinely strong fears you would start a riot if you didn't get Governor.

I should also point out, it was not a 'rug pull' as you mentioned. The ministers had already voted on not having another Governor and for the position of MOFA (Minister of Foreign Affairs). But the precinct made the announcement for a governor race without consulting the government in any way shape or form so we were then forced into back-pedalling that quickly as it went against our votes.

If you're going to undermine the votes of the Ministers and then publicly denounce them and their authority before you're even in government on a terrorists broadcast that resulted in two officers in critical condition why on Gods green earth would we ever want you in government? You became a terrorist the moment you touched that broadcast. That alone would have been enough reason for Pierre to want to kill your character as he had already suffered permanent disfigurement as a result of your characters own actions.

You also don't have the authority to demand Okada's position be removed or for new or disbanding Ministers. You had already lost all sway in the government before you were even in it.

 

[Bighomer]

I think the people involved in the PK should be more involved in these discussions.
I feel like this arc is still ongoing and making it public just hurts Wray' and others in the long run.
Takes out the mystery in Vera's assassination.
Still, if Kitty wanted to find out why her character got assassinated, they could've asked the perps' in DMs or anywhere else.
Someone like @melodicwaste and @Wraygun should be speaking more and discussing things, I can't even tell what are the arguments for the PK being revoked or denied are so far since this is so disorganized.