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[Accepted] Powergaming and Unprofessionalism.

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Alfie

Alfie

Radio Bob Approved
Joined
Nov 30, 2020
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145
Greetings, everyone.

I usually don't complain too much regarding things. Esepcially as it's Beta at the end of the day and nothing is perfect. But what played out recently was well beyond acceptable in my opinion. It's regarding Powergaming from and IC character. And Unprofessionalism from an assisting Moderator. I'll be explaining it fully from start to finish so everyone gets a good view of what i'm talking about.


Alright so! Was normally patroling around the outterparts of the Xen-infestaion. Still trying to get myself some sort of understanding and mapping of this massive place. Perhaps meeting up with any resistance members when i eventually found the typical hangaround area. EIther way, after killing a couple of Zombies and making my way around. I run into a seemingly armed resistance member with a bandana covering his face and an SMG pointed at me.

I contributed with some FearRP thinking he was going to mug me. Instead we exchanged a couple of words regarding unknown people and groups. Before he let me scramble away. I eventually make my way out of his sight and hide behind a door where i waited to ambush him if he ever followed me or eventually walked back. Which he did! He's quickly caught with his pants down as you can see on his reaction on the video down below which i will be posting. Either way, i start typing my /me on how i would procced to ambush and attack him.

But instead of being resonable and standing still in the same place. He begins to backtrack behind the door and eventually walking out of my sight. Knowing he can't do that, he walks forward again. He then hasstly then types out a fast /Me . (((( *** [You'd see a man standing 5'8. A hispa...] was already readied, having his weapon peaked at the corner. ))) Even though he has already walked through the door. I didn't catch it fully on the video but this is clearly a blatant try to save himself from the situation by creating a /me checks corners with his gun even though he already walked through. But when Admins check the logs, it would look like him actually checking corners when he actually walked through without doing so. Almost trying to loop-hole the Admins. But you can clearly see him walking through the door without peaking any corners resutling in me have an advantage and him being in a P2L state.




Instead of responding to my /Me where he's unexpectedly getting hit over the head with a Claw Hammer. In the attempt of knocking him unconsiouss. He instead stalls the situation and calls an Admin showing him the logs that he supposingly "checked the corners with him gun" even though he didn't. The Admin that checked the logs was Robert which believed him at first. Until i eventually showed him the video how he blatanlty lied. Once againt telling me that i have the advantage.

Instead of moving on. He calls another Admin. And attempts to /me (((*** [You'd see a man standing 5'8. A hispa...] flicked over his holster, gunning his weapon up attempting to block strike it.))) Even though he's being unexpectedly ambushed and lost the roll. He somehow still strikes me and blocks my attempt of hitting him. I completely disagree with this as it's absolutely powergaming and not overseeing the fact that he's:

Disadvantage*
Unexpectanly*
Ambushed*
Lost the Roll*
And P2L*

FungletheBungle eventually swings by with quite a rude behavior and Unprofessional manners. Telling me to stop bitching. Even though he barely knows what's currently going on. And this casuses some LOOC chatter between Me, Bungle and resistance guy. Which i won't provide here as it's seen uneccesary.

Instead of being knocked uncocsiouss by all the factors included. Or perhaps dropping his SMG. Or even bleed from his head. He instead post this:

*** [You'd see a man standing 5'8. A hispa...] quickly staggered backward from the hit by the hammer, letting out a "YOU FUCKING CUNT!" as he tries to recover.

When you're getting unexpectedly ambushed and hit with full force over the head with a hammer. In real life you would literally get brain-damage because of that. But this is HL2RP at the end of the day. But even that isn't a good excuse to provide the /me he just did. You don't stagger backwards like someone shoved you. And the fact he isn't even bleeding from his head is miracles.

Unexpectantly*
Ambushed*
Disadvantage*
Lost Roll*
P2L state.

FungleTheBungle eventually dismisses the whole situation and lets him escape even though he forced some /Me upon himself to do so. I got generally pissy about the situation and Fungle told me to take it to the forums so here i am.

:) I think the resistance guy was also a CM.
 
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Will respond to this tomorrow in full with other CMs.

But will note for now:
Trap said:
I think the resistance guy was also a CM.
Click to expand...
Resistance was played by Robusted - rank of Admin.
 
Hello Trap, you already know who I am so let's skip to the discussion.

I wasn't there for the start of this interaction, so I'll just address the points I can. For which I can tell the main ones are.

1.Unprofessionalism
2.Powergame from the Admin Player
3.Your argument that he didn't expect the ambush
4.Your expectation that a hammer is a guaranteed knockout in an RP situation if the other party is "unaware"

So let's cover these in no particular order

1. He didn't know you were going to ambush him

This is false, as seen in the video (which is all I can go off of for now, seeing as I arrived after the fact) he makes you walk through the door with his gun raised, this assumes he is in an aware state. If he was wondering around with a gun on safety or holstered I would agree with you, but this was not the case. Gun out and off safety in the sewers = combat ready

2. Hammer is guaranteed knockout

I disagree with this, even if we go completely by you view on events prior, a hammer to the head in anything but Hollywood is any but a guaranteed knockout. Concussive, Yes. Painfull, Yes. Going to put you in a situation that you can win, 100%. But an instant knockout (without a roll may I add) is ridiculous.

In that vein I was trying to ensure that it was made clear that, while he was not knocked out, you had very much the upper hand, and that Robusted was P2L. However that brings us onto the next point.

3. Unprofessionalism

Two points here, the first being we are not professionals, however it is still something we strive towards.

Second point is your stubbornness and lack of compromise lead to a situation were it was you way or the highway. I attempted multiple times to handle the situation professionally, insisting that you continue RP in a P2W situation, however your insistence on continuing to argue in LOOC and refusal to RP anything but what you demanded caused me to A. Start using crass language, something that I could have gone without admittedly. and B put my foot down, else we would be spending a lot more time arguing on the logic of hammer knockouts. There I was, attempting to hand out an almost guaranteed victory that would leave BOTH parties involved (both you and Robusted) at least amicable about the situation, but you wanted your way so badly that you essentially self sabotaged what was in all essence a very good situation for you to be in.

In addition you insistence on demanding a specific admin during the situation (Robert, with whom I was in a VC with AT THE TIME), when I made it abundantly clear that I was the admin in charge of that specific situation, did not show any good will on your part and only a desire to have it your way.

Finally, I warned you in LOOC that if you continue to complain and argue against my decisions instead of continuing in a situation where I admitted you have the clear upper hand, then I would let Robusted get away. After all, there is only so much time one can spend on a single situation.

Lo and behold to little surprise, you decided that you absolutely needed to continue arguing.

4. Powergame from Admin Player

This is something I will address with Robusted Admin to Admin as I did see some unbecoming behavior in this specific situation.
Perhaps we can have a VC about it, no promises.


In conclusion
It was only through your insistence, stubbornness and lack of letting others bend your own RP (as it takes more then one, you BOTH should agree) that lead to the situation ending in a less then ideal conclusion.

However I do APOLOGISE for my crass language, it is something I should strive to avoid in such situations and will ensure that I keep it to an absolute minimum.
 
FungletheBungle said:
1. He didn't know you were going to ambush him

This is false, as seen in the video (which is all I can go off of for now, seeing as I arrived after the fact) he makes you walk through the door with his gun raised, this assumes he is in an aware state. If he was wondering around with a gun on safety or holstered I would agree with you, but this was not the case. Gun out and off safety in the sewers = combat ready
Click to expand...
Quite wrong indeed... How you explain things in your entire thread as a response to mine is quite off. Almost as you're trying to slowly angle the encounter differently. He doesn't "make me walk through the door" as you explained it. He actually wanted me to scramble my way out of there. Believing that i actually ran away. And if you ACTUALLY look at the video. It clearly shows him almost walking past my character before he even regonizes that he got ambushed. Sush as his back-tracking movements and unpreparedness by him not checking any corner. All these factors combined just screams unawareness-

More evidence to stack ontop of this was his attempt lie and Log-loophole Robin when he hasstly typed out ((( *** [You'd see a man standing 5'8. A hispa...] was already readied, having his weapon peaked at the corner. ))) As a way of saving himself through the logs knowing that he messed up. In my opinion that should almost count as a rule-break.


FungletheBungle said:
2. Hammer is guaranteed knockout

I disagree with this, even if we go completely by you view on events prior, a hammer to the head in anything but Hollywood is any but a guaranteed knockout. Concussive, Yes. Painfull, Yes. Going to put you in a situation that you can win, 100%. But an instant knockout (without a roll may I add) is ridiculous.
Click to expand...

I never mentioned anything about Hammer being a guranteed knockout. I strongly argued for it to be that way, looking at all the factors that was included. But i never guranteed it being. Once again an attempt to almost angle the encounter from your side of view. To be honest, a knockout is probably one of the highest achivements that could have been achived. But looking at how this played out. It could very well be resonable. Another option could have been dropping his SMG or perhaps injuring one of his arms making it un-useable during the encounter. But instead of being respectful and resonable over my clear characters advantage in all factors. He still provided a well beyond powergaming /Me almost as if someone shoved him. Not feeling any sort of satisfaction of fair RP advantage.

And to add ontop of the "You guys didn't roll the knockout" Well actually. We did roll the encounter. And i won.


FungletheBungle said:
3. Unprofessionalism

Two points here, the first being we are not professionals, however it is still something we strive towards.

Second point is your stubbornness and lack of compromise lead to a situation were it was you way or the highway. I attempted multiple times to handle the situation professionally, insisting that you continue RP in a P2W situation, however your insistence on continuing to argue in LOOC and refusal to RP anything but what you demanded caused me to A. Start using crass language, something that I could have gone without admittedly. and B put my foot down, else we would be spending a lot more time arguing on the logic of hammer knockouts. There I was, attempting to hand out an almost guaranteed victory that would leave BOTH parties involved (both you and Robusted) at least amicable about the situation, but you wanted your way so badly that you essentially self sabotaged what was in all essence a very good situation for you to be in.
Click to expand...

Of course i'm going to be stubborn and disagree with continuing the RP situation. Especially how it played out. Including all the factors that has been mentioned so far. And the fact you barely knew what was going on, doesn't result in a well justified and resonable encounter. Compare to Robert who actually had a better image of what was actually going on. Therefor attempting call him instead of you. You wasn't really happy about that, and instead of being resonable and responding with that he actually was in the VC at the time. You told me to stop bitching to Robert which was a direct slap to your reputation from my side of view.


Either way, nothing is perfect and mistakes are done. I've probably contributed with mistakes i haven't seen so far. But this is where the line is drawn.
 
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Sorry for being late on this.

However, I do want to start by saying that when it comes to Admin Characters, the player should always take priority. Admin Character < Player. The character Robusted used in this scenario was an Admin Character and thus in my personal opinion should have been at a loss. I was the one who first appeared to the scene when this first kicked off.

When I arrived, I thought Robusted had walked through the door already checking his corners... I eventually found out this was not the case and was done after he had spotted the player AFTER walking through the door. This means that he can not check corners anymore since doing so would be unfair and technically failrp since he already walked in without doing so.

With this said, @Trap had the advantage and thus got the jump on Robusted. This is the first fatal mistake the Admin made when RP'ing because a roll suddenly took place out of the blue. This should not happen. When you have the Advantage in battle, the player with said advantage can take an action freely without rolling since they have the jump, basically equally something akin to a 100 out of 100 roll. This should've of been a Play to Lose scenario.

Robusted, in this case, should've of not rolled and tumbled forwards... not backwards. He was hit at the back of the head with a hammer and where he was standing, he would of gone forwards from the hit. Makes no sense to go backwards. As for everything that took place afterwards... it all went wrong but in the end, it could've easily gone either way, but @Trap again would have the advantage here and should've more or less ended in his victory.

Again, Admin Character Vs Player... The player should always take priority.

Conclusion: Trap should've won this scenario. This situation was roleplayed by the Admin poorly.


Now I will edit this post later to include Fungle and behaviour into this. Still waiting for @RedHotGinger to start the investigation with me.
 
This ain't too important, the Beta is ending in a couple of days. I just want the administration to be aware of this and hopefully avoid further encounters like this.


Respect+ To Robert for his neutral stance and overseeing both parties.
 
Robusted was confirmed to be in the wrong here on his side of RP. From what I just got told, Robusted is now Suspended until the 12th.

Fungle was also in the wrong on his behavioural side, I do remember flying nearby and catching some of his comments out which were not really worded in any form of respectable way. Suspended as well until the 12th.
 
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