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Izabad (and Goodella) metagaming a player-run event to an entire faction

  • Thread starter Thread starter AdamCF
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AdamCF

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Your Steam Name: AdamCF

Your SteamID: STEAM_0:1:111349071


Their Steam Name(s): IZABAD [EDIT: Ron Goodfella]

Their SteamID(s): STEAM_0:1:47630761 [EDIT: STEAM_0:0:25052208]

Do you know their Discord or Forum name(s)?: IZABAD on the forums, IZABAD#0807 on discord

Why do you want them to be banned?: Metagaming. I'm making this on behalf of a number of people (mainly ZigZag557) who had an entire planned player-run event ruined by Izabad after he intentionally leaked the plans in an OOC chat with OTA members, breaking any secrecy we had before. Instead of just discussing it, the OTA continued to show clear intent to metagame, talking about 'shadowing' CPs due to this. Ron Goodfella even orders OTA, through IC radio, to keep their weapons ready and to monitor CPs. This is blatant metagame directly caused by Izabad's actions.
It's also definitely worth noting that the event planning was done with CM permission and oversight. I'll also say that I've not got all the information on this, but any required information can be given by the witnesses if they'd like.

How long do you think they should be banned for?: That's not really up to me to decide.

Evidence to support your reasoning (Evidence must be clear and it could be logs, pictures or video): Evidence - Pastebin.com

Names of witnesses that can provide extra feedback on this case?: Javichu, Gyran, ZigZag557, and Daniel Sanders have all agreed to be witnesses.


EDIT: I've added Ron Goodfella to this. The evidence pastebin provides a large amount of evidence to this and he arguably did worse than Izabad by taking it IC.
Here's an ooc chat log from GHOST-01, Ron's character
@dispatch S10/EOW.GHOST-01 apparently nothing is going to happen, so im going to delete the datapad update, the cps are raging ooc about the mass rogue thing
He's going to delete the datapad update because we cancelled the event? So he's made a datapad update using the OOC information gathered due to Izabad's actions? That's the very definition of metagame.
 
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Something I'd forgotten to add:
QUICK-0 (Izabad's character) was beaten extremely heavily by OTA due to something caused by HELIX-0 (ZigZag's character). Coincidentally, ZigZag was the one organising the event which Izabad metagamed. This probably influenced Izabad's decision to metagame the event, which one of his final messages in the event-planning discord (which again, was supervised and approved by a CM) makes even clearer.
 
Posting for logs sake

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Thanks for the report. I've physically spent a good while of my time looking into this directly. I'm going to make it really quick to give details after discussing:

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Basically what he says is true. Summit Twenty-Four was coming to have an important meeting on the matter through a mini-event, and the components processed were of the following calibre as placed above. There is also this, stated by Grass - our Senior Admin and Developer:

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Your report is legitimate and it did require a good run through of specific information. When the ordeal was eventually cancelled because of how physically crippling it would have been to the srver in various elements of the community, these preparations were not carried out. It was a mess to begin with and I can't state that any party was clean - but they've been reminded to be very much aware of their surroundings when it comes to preparation.

Thank you for the report. I'll still be looking into it a bit more than with just that, but this is the main, prime recipe you can read for the time being.
 
Talked with OTA leads on this, and it seems logs are being taken out of context which is a big no no and could have essentially avoided 90% of this complaint. From what I hear, OTA were also IC'ly notified by Overwatch regarding the increased tensions and Summit 24 coming in to resolve them. They took precautionary measures to avoid further damage until that happened. These measures were added to the standing orders on the datafile, but subsequently removed as they though everything was going to be cancelled. No specific actions were being taken against any individuals, only general precautionary measures. Given how big of an IC and OOC shitstorm this is, I do not blame them.

Further more, there was a discussion among OTA here in regards to what would happen. Kind of grey area in the rules right now, but I do not see a problem here, especially as no specific plans were made, just speculation on what would happen on a higher level if certain things went down. Nothing of it was acted upon either way, so it is very hard to establish any form of intentional metagame here.

The only thing left in this complaint is what was said in dispatch chat on what it originally should be - a complaint on metabaiting. Can we reduce this down to that instead rather than blow this up to the size of an elephant?
 
@Imperator RAD-X @Gr4Ss I don't see how logs are being taken out of context...

[12/08/21 21:45:48] S10/EOW.GHOST-01 used command '/D overwatch have to keep an eye on the nexus and its metrocops, and if any metrocops enter the elevator leading into the administration area, you can gun them down.'.
[12/08/21 21:58:02] S10/EOW.GHOST-01 used command '/D if they are inside of the HPR, you shoot them without a warning, they can tease entering all they want but if they actually go in its over'.
[12/08/21 21:58:40] S10/EOW.GHOST-01 used command '/D the combine would never let their volunteer human protection force make demands or assert themselves over the OTA/Dispatch AI'.
[12/08/21 21:58:56] S10/EOW.GHOST-01 used command '/D yeah, ofc it has to be rped, but s2k/tbc engagement for killing them.'.
[12/08/21 21:59:12] S10/EOW.GHOST-01 used command '/D standard rules of engagement'.
[12/08/21 22:07:56] S10/EOW.GHOST-01 used command '/D as mentioned before, striders and gunships will be around to remind metrocops what treacherous behavior will get them,'.
[12/08/21 22:08:09] S10/EOW.GHOST-01 used command '/D code red/black for a few days, ota in the streets, everyone apart of the mutiny will be killed and pked'.
[12/08/21 22:10:55] S10/EOW.GHOST-01 used command '/D apparently nothing is going to happen, so im going to delete the datapad update, the cps are raging ooc about the mass rogue thing'.
[12/08/21 22:11:01] S10/EOW.GHOST-01 used command '/D they are canceling it all'.
 
Yeah, I also don't really see any missing context. It's very clear that OOC information was used IC, and I don't see how that can be denied. Also, add everyone involved to this if you can.

If the messages are out of context, please provide the full context as to why they reacted this way immediately after being informed OOC about the plan
 
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I could be misinterpreting this, but to me it still seems like he's added an update note thing because of the information about the coup, then removed it as soon as he found out it wasn't happening. I don't see him ever saying that's not the case, or giving an alternate reason for having that update
 
I don’t see how this is out of context. If the higher admins want to go easy on the players involved, just say so. But it’s pretty evident they were FailRPing. “just gun them down”? What...? Isn’t the whole reason BCI can’t have guns that they shot a CP last iteration, but it’s okay for OTA to have standing orders to murder metro cops? It’s not, and the only reason they even gave the order was due to metagame. Sorry for the blunt speech, I just woke up so don’t have the patience to say that politely. Unless I’m missing a HUGE chunk of the story, dewhitelists need to be handed out because OTA leaders and some of the OTA members involved have been warned NUMEROUS times in regards to FailRP and Powergame. Why we allow these people to be the “shining star of roleplay” is beyond me.
 
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Adding some logs too generally what have found:
[12/08/21 23:22:14] S10/EOW.GHOST-01 used command '/D there is a bigger party coming to the city than the administrator and overseers'.
[12/08/21 23:22:55] S10/OWS.ION-98 used command '/D Inb4 the RLs shoot up Summit 24.'.
[12/08/21 23:23:37] S10-S2/OWS.SWIFT-17 used command '/D Now he is ploting a coup'.
[12/08/21 23:23:42] S10/EOW.GHOST-01 used command '/D in any case, what will likely happen is, if a mutiny occurs, all civil protection who die will be dewhitelisted and pked'.
[12/08/21 23:24:58] S10/EOW.GHOST-01 used command '/D this is of course if they decide to go through with it, rogue without auths + actively understanding that there are combine war machines and soldiers ready to prohibit any retaliation'.
[12/08/21 23:26:57] S10/EOW.GHOST-01 used command '/D the thing is, they want to charge the TRANSHUMAN ARM with 243 assault on protection teams....'.
[12/08/21 23:30:01] S10/EOW.GHOST-01 used command '/Radio SECTOR TEN CONTROL TEAMS, PRIORITY UPDATE: maintain weapon readiness, maintain cohesive oversight on precinct TWENTY-FOUR civic-protection teams in NEXUS region.'.
[12/08/21 23:45:00] S10/EOW.GHOST-01 used command '/Radio ALERT TWO, WARNING: All sociostabilization teams, entry into administrative zone will result in immediate expiry, adhere to protocol renewal.'.
[12/08/21 23:45:48] S10/EOW.GHOST-01 used command '/D overwatch have to keep an eye on the nexus and its metrocops, and if any metrocops enter the elevator leading into the administration area, you can gun them down.'.
[12/08/21 23:45:55] S10/EOW.GHOST-01 used command '/D this is non negotiable btw'.

Not sure if this will help but logs at the time and the summit 24 stuff at the same time from the looks of it which kinda makes it messy.
 
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Bodger said:
@Imperator RAD-X @Gr4Ss I don't see how logs are being taken out of context...

[12/08/21 21:45:48] S10/EOW.GHOST-01 used command '/D overwatch have to keep an eye on the nexus and its metrocops, and if any metrocops enter the elevator leading into the administration area, you can gun them down.'.
[12/08/21 21:58:02] S10/EOW.GHOST-01 used command '/D if they are inside of the HPR, you shoot them without a warning, they can tease entering all they want but if they actually go in its over'.
[12/08/21 21:58:40] S10/EOW.GHOST-01 used command '/D the combine would never let their volunteer human protection force make demands or assert themselves over the OTA/Dispatch AI'.
[12/08/21 21:58:56] S10/EOW.GHOST-01 used command '/D yeah, ofc it has to be rped, but s2k/tbc engagement for killing them.'.
[12/08/21 21:59:12] S10/EOW.GHOST-01 used command '/D standard rules of engagement'.
[12/08/21 22:07:56] S10/EOW.GHOST-01 used command '/D as mentioned before, striders and gunships will be around to remind metrocops what treacherous behavior will get them,'.
[12/08/21 22:08:09] S10/EOW.GHOST-01 used command '/D code red/black for a few days, ota in the streets, everyone apart of the mutiny will be killed and pked'.
[12/08/21 22:10:55] S10/EOW.GHOST-01 used command '/D apparently nothing is going to happen, so im going to delete the datapad update, the cps are raging ooc about the mass rogue thing'.
[12/08/21 22:11:01] S10/EOW.GHOST-01 used command '/D they are canceling it all'.
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Where are the logs of radio traffic, plus when was OTA informed via Overwatch that Summit 24 was coming down to settle the tensions? Where are the logs of OTA actually doing anything with this information IC'ly? Where are there any concrete plans being made other than explanations of what would happen if/clarification of the ROE that all OTA should be aware about IC'ly and hence was elaborated upon in /d OOC'ly?

Why were we even taking conclusions about a log snippet without allowing Ron to put in a counter argument? We had to hit him up on Discord to give him that chance, he should be able to post in this thread or this is just a stupid closed-door witch hunt.

Overwatch was made aware of tensions between CP and CCA, big enough for Summit 24 (aka the very very very top of the Combine) to come down to solve it. At that they put in place a restriction to separate the two factions as really they have very little reason to talk to each other (communication should go through the Overseer, exactly to avoid situations like this).

Ruffian said:
I don’t see how this is out of context. If the higher admins want to go easy on the players involved, just say so. But it’s pretty evident they were FailRPing. “just gun them down”? What...? Isn’t the whole reason BCI can’t have guns that they shot a CP last iteration, but it’s okay for OTA to have standing orders to murder metro cops? It’s not, and the only reason they even gave the order was due to metagame. Sorry for the blunt speech, I just woke up so don’t have the patience to say that politely. Unless I’m missing a HUGE chunk of the story, dewhitelists need to be handed out because OTA leaders and some of the OTA members involved have been warned NUMEROUS times in regards to FailRP and Powergame. Why we allow these people to be the “shining star of roleplay” is beyond me.
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I am going to pretend I read none of this until you have fully woken up and reworded that. That is some very big accusations you are leveling there that if they were leveled against me I would very much take the wrong way. Let alone the that you want CM's to remove the faction lead and half the faction...
 
Can I just ask why people aren’t being added? I’ve asked about three times for people to be added to this but no-one has.
 
You guys say it was because of summit 24 coming down, but it’s very clear to me that this was primarily due to izabad reporting the coup.

@Gr4Ss If this is all because of summit 24, why did Ron Goodfella delete this IC ‘update’ he talked about as soon as he knew he knew about the coup having been cancelled? If it was unrelated, then why would he need to remove it? Clearly, he’s taken the OOC information about the coup and taken it IC. I don’t see how you can disagree, the evidence is conclusive even with the context you’ve given.
 
AdamCF said:
You guys say it was because of summit 24 coming down, but it’s very clear to me that this was primarily due to izabad reporting the coup.

@Gr4Ss If this is all because of summit 24, why did Ron Goodfella delete this IC ‘update’ he talked about as soon as he knew he knew about the coup having been cancelled? If it was unrelated, then why would he need to remove it? Clearly, he’s taken the OOC information about the coup and taken it IC. I don’t see how you can disagree, the evidence is conclusive even with the context you’ve given.
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Because the event was also cancelled with it as everything was being voided and nobody knew anymore what was still IC and what wasn't.

Edit: unfortunately, none of this is visible in the logs as it happened on Discord/wherever else, hence why I find it hard to take the logs at face value. This series of events did not only go down in dispatch chat, so ONLY looking at dispatch chat because it seems to tell you a story you want to hear is not good. I've been at this for 10+ years now, and logs of what people say are so easy to misread (usually this happens with staff chat logs, or a LOOC conversation, ...). You technically need all the logs from all the characters involved (IC, (L)OOC, commands), and in this case cross-reference timestamps with the storm that went down on Discord as well in like 3 different channels (excluding VC's) that I know off.

Unfortunately this isn't a discussion that went down purely on /d. I went for one drink and came back to staff chat exploding, rank leader chat exploding, 150 unread messages in the CP/OTA lead convo, people in VC's all over the place... I didn't even bother to chew through what might have been in the other channels.
 
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Gr4Ss said:
Because the event was also cancelled with it as everything was being voided and nobody knew anymore what was still IC and what wasn't.
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He added orders and, as he said, an IC update because of OOC information. “Nobody knew what was still IC”? Seriously? Not gonna say that’s a valid excuse to blatantly take OOC information IC. If someone went into an OOC chat and told me that something was happening, I’d know that information was OOC.
 
AdamCF said:
He added orders and, as he said, an IC update because of OOC information. “Nobody knew what was still IC”? Seriously? Not gonna say that’s a valid excuse to blatantly take OOC information IC. If someone went into an OOC chat and told me that something was happening, I’d know that information was OOC.
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If you don't know exactly what was voided, you no longer know which info you still have IC'ly. I didn't mean that point as OOC/IC info, I more meant it that with people saying 'things are voided' without every specifying exactly what 'things' includes, it is very hard for you to know what you IC'ly still know, and which information you now only have purely OOC'ly because the IC events (or their causes) were poofed into a void.
 
how does one grant access again? Could always make a forum PM and invite them.
 
Gr4Ss said:
If you don't know exactly what was voided, you no longer know which info you still have IC'ly. I didn't mean that point as OOC/IC info, I more meant it that with people saying 'things are voided' without every specifying exactly what 'things' includes, it is very hard for you to know what you IC'ly still know, and which information you now only have purely OOC'ly because the IC events (or their causes) were poofed into a void.
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Well, this again isn’t an excuse. They were fully aware that pretty much everything they knew was from izabad’s OOC messages. The logs make this clear.
 
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