A tale of burglary of clothes and metagame

[Oebelysk]

I want to start off by saying I really don't like making complaint threads. I don't like taking things OOC, I don't like arguing, it annoys me and detracts from the game. It's quite unfortunate I'm having to even make this considering player freedom is not supposed to be taken lightly, however whenever consequential anti-citizen activity occurs it almost always seems to be voided by administration or heavily nerfed.

What happened: I was able to steal a plethora of the "Clean Clothes" item from the CWU warehouse. I was not caught, I was not searched, I was not even questioned. I literally walked in and out of the warehouse and was able to loot the containers multiple times. Keep in mind, this is the only actual item you can take within the CWU warehouse. There aren't tools. There aren't outfits, there isn't anything except clean clothes. If someone breaks into the CWU warehouse, they are going to have to take clean clothes. The fact that not once has it been considered what happens when someone actually robs the warehouse of these items is quite absurd in my opinion. Anyhow, I'm able to do this throughout the day completely legitimately. The first time, I'm given citizen clothes. The second time, I can roll for what clothes I get, with every 3 clean clothes equalling one wearable clothing item. I and I luck out and acquire a CWU uniform with a high roll. The third time, I roll once more and get more clothing items.

The fourth time, the CWU leave the warehouse WIDE open and I go in and I steal the items. I contact @Lord Beckett to inquire about obtaining the clothes, and we're immediately confronted with accusations of metagame, coordinating with the CWU who left the door open, why did I start recording just as it happened, etc, etc. After I prove that I legitimately acquired the items, I'm now told that we can only get 1 wearable clothing item for every 7 clean clothes. This basically means that I would be getting the exact same amount of clothes from the last grab, despite obtaining more than 2 times as many of the clothes. I say no, I'll speak to another admin. Server then crashes and I go to bed.

Why am I making a complaint: Well, this morning, one of the CWU leads says they're both disappointed and impressed with what I did and that the four green containers that previously held the clothes have now been deleted. First of all, this means that the CWU leads were told OOC what I did and who I was OOC. Great, so I pull off this clandestine robbery and now the CWU leads now know who I am OOC? How is that fair? Not only that, but any possible future grab like this has been completely nullified because, coincidentally, the four containers have vanished the day after, PLUS they know that someone's been stealing clothes. IN ADDITION I am told that the entire situation has been voided because, "realistically the CWU would have found out the clothes were gone and called the CPs". No, the CWU are ran by characters. Maybe, if they weren't told OOC, we could have actually FOUND OUT if they were smart enough to see the clothes went missing. Instead, it's practically been metagamed that the clothes were stolen and any possible IC drama has been completely ruined.

Why am I being punished for abusing the CWU's IC incompetence with the warehouse? Why are IC actions being taken OOC and metagamed to the CWU leads? How is it fair that my scheme to steal clothing has now been publicly revealed to all of the CWU by an admin, removing any possibility of it being performed again?

 

[Lord Beckett]

The fourth time, the CWU leave the warehouse WIDE open and I go in and I steal the items. I contact @Lord Beckett to inquire about obtaining the clothes, and we're immediately confronted with accusations of metagame, coordinating with the CWU who left the door open, why did I start recording just as it happened, etc, etc. After I prove that I legitimately acquired the items, I'm now told that we can only get 1 wearable clothing item for every 7 clean clothes. This basically means that I would be getting the exact same amount of clothes from the last grab, despite obtaining more than 2 times as many of the clothes. I say no, I'll speak to another admin. Server then crashes and I go to bed.

Forgive me if I seem overly suspicious while I'm administrating, but I noticed several red flags about the situation which heightened by suspicions. I won't get into it but suffice to say I has serious reservations about the whole situation.

As for the 7 to 1 ratio, that is because you had I believe 42 pieces of clean clothes between you and your accomplice, and I wasn't comfortable handing out at a 3 to 1 ratio because of the sheer number of scripts.

Why am I making a complaint: Well, this morning, one of the CWU leads says they're both disappointed and impressed with what I did and that the four green containers that previously held the clothes have now been deleted. First of all, this means that the CWU leads were told OOC what I did and who I was OOC. Great, so I pull off this clandestine robbery and now the CWU leads now know who I am OOC? How is that fair? Not only that, but any possible future grab like this has been completely nullified because, coincidentally, the four containers have vanished the day after, PLUS they know that someone's been stealing clothes. IN ADDITION I am told that the entire situation has been voided because, "realistically the CWU would have found out the clothes were gone and called the CPs". No, the CWU are ran by characters. Maybe, if they weren't told OOC, we could have actually FOUND OUT if they were smart enough to see the clothes went missing. Instead, it's practically been metagamed that the clothes were stolen and any possible IC drama has been completely ruined.

CWU leads were informed because we were discussing how to react to the situation: take it IC and punish all those involved or void it because of the ridiculous circumstances, those being...

(Video for reference)

1. You stood in the middle of the plaza waiting for the door to be opened. Once it did, you equipped the jacket without a /me, in view of the entire plaza and walked inside.

2. Three people were present at the entrance, one CWU worker, one CWU manager, and one CMU. The two workers were facing the entrance, while the CMU was facing where the lockers were and could have easily seen you taking the clothes out. (Timestamp 0:43 proves this.)

3. You performed no /me while picking up 20 shirts (not even a /mec), walked by multiple cameras, and escaped to the plaza.

If you wish to take this situation IC, then we can certainly do that. I will punish the CWU and your character will be arrested. Or we could just continue to void the situation like we were planning on. Up to CMs I suppose.

 

[Oebelysk]

As for the 7 to 1 ratio, that is because you had I believe 42 pieces of clean clothes between you and your accomplice, and I wasn't comfortable handing out at a 3 to 1 ratio because of the sheer number of scripts.

Sure, I get it. It's a lot of items. But at the same time it was a well-planned out and executed grab - I don't feel that I should be punished because of how successful it was. It is almost as if I would be rewarded more if I took less items, which I feel is completely backwards.

CWU leads were informed because we were discussing how to react to the situation: take it IC and punish all those involved or void it because of the ridiculous circumstances, those being...

I disagree that they should even be brought into the discussion. They are now aware of who I am, what I did, how I did it, and now it's basically impossible to do this again. I don't really see that as very fair.

1. You stood in the middle of the plaza waiting for the door to be opened. Once it did, you equipped the jacket without a /me, in view of the entire plaza and walked inside.

Alright, if the entire plaza saw me, why didn't anyone stop me? I see CWU take their clothes off and on with zero /mes all the time. Why do I need to broadcast the removal and equipping of my clothing when people can already see it being done in-game?

2. Three people were present at the entrance, one CWU worker, one CWU manager, and one CMU. The two workers were facing the entrance, while the CMU was facing where the lockers were and could have easily seen you taking the clothes out. (Timestamp 0:43 proves this.)

Why would a CMU get suspicious of a fully equipped CWU worker taking out clean clothes? And this is even proven - he doesn't care when he sees me at the cabinets. I don't see why this shouldn't be taken IC - if he sees me and doesn't care, he sees me and doesn't care. End of story.

3. You performed no /me while picking up 20 shirts (not even a /mec), walked by multiple cameras, and escaped to the plaza.

What would a /me or /mec have changed? Likely absolutely nothing, except the potential for metagame. If the CWU workers were in /me range, which I would say they very well may not have been, they would see the /me and turn around, when in reality, their backs were turned and as such have no idea that I'm taking the clothes out. A /mec changes nothing - I could easily have a /mec pasted and there would have been zero change.

Alright, so the cameras raise another issue of mine. First of all, there's only one camera in the warehouse and its FOV does not travel over the storage, so it wouldn't see me taking the clothes. It would have seen a man, dressed in CWU clothes with a hat on, walking in and out of the warehouse. How does that raise suspicion? Is the camera smart enough to detect I'm not in CWU?

At this point, it seems that all this is is genuine nitpicking. None of these issues would change the outcome whatsoever.

 

[Lord Beckett]

Sure, I get it. It's a lot of items. But at the same time it was a well-planned out and executed grab - I don't feel that I should be punished because of how successful it was. It is almost as if I would be rewarded more if I took less items, which I feel is completely backwards.

This was my own judgment call. Maybe another admin would have given you the items.

I disagree that they should even be brought into the discussion. They are now aware of who I am, what I did, how I did it, and now it's basically impossible to do this again. I don't really see that as very fair.

As CCA faction lead, I like to discuss these issues with my faction. I'm sorry if you think that was a mistake, but I wanted to hear their opinions on the matter. They were the affected party, after all.

Alright, if the entire plaza saw me, why didn't anyone stop me? I see CWU take their clothes off and on with zero /mes all the time. Why do I need to broadcast the removal and equipping of my clothing when people can already see it being done in-game?

When performing illegal actions, it is expected to use /me. This is because illegal actions should be performed so the appropriate parties can react to them. Putting on a CWU shirt in the middle of the plaza is suspicious, and they didn't stop you because they probably didn't notice it happening. This is why /me's are necessary. It gives a chance for all parties to react.

Why would a CMU get suspicious of a fully equipped CWU worker taking out clean clothes? And this is even proven - he doesn't care when he sees me at the cabinets. I don't see why this shouldn't be taken IC - if he sees me and doesn't care, he sees me and doesn't care. End of story.

He would see you taking a bunch of clean clothes and then walking out of the warehouse. He might have just thought you were a CWU checking the stock in the cabinets—a /me is needed to differentiate. What information can he glean from you just standing stock still in front of them?

You need to perform the action; that's why we have the command. If we didn't use /me, everyone would just be standing around all the time, and no one would be able to tell if they were doing something else. This is basic HL2Rp.

What would a /me or /mec have changed? Likely absolutely nothing, except the potential for metagame. If the CWU workers were in /me range, which I would say they very well may not have been, they would see the /me and turn around, when in reality, their backs were turned and as such have no idea that I'm taking the clothes out. A /mec changes nothing - I could easily have a /mec pasted and there would have been zero change.

Again, there was a man staring at your direction the whole time. A /me is necessary for the reasons stated above.

Alright, so the cameras raise another issue of mine. First of all, there's only one camera in the warehouse and its FOV does not travel over the storage, so it wouldn't see me taking the clothes. It would have seen a man, dressed in CWU clothes with a hat on, walking in and out of the warehouse. How does that raise suspicion? Is the camera smart enough to detect I'm not in CWU?

Camera watching you walk into the warehouse.


Camera watching you walk up to the lockers.

Cameras would have seen you and identified you, and there is no CWU information in your data. Civil Protection is alerted and the stolen clothes are pinned on you. Case closed.

 

[Oebelysk]

This was my own judgment call. Maybe another admin would have given you the items.

As CCA faction lead, I like to discuss these issues with my faction. I'm sorry if you think that was a mistake, but I wanted to hear their opinions on the matter. They were the affected party, after all.

Alright, your opinion. I disagree with it. Not much else to say. Pretty disappointed I'm basically unable to do anything of this sort again because they now know about it, despite never even actually having found out IC. They were only told OOC. Also, why were the containers removed? That's kind of outrageous that even after this situation gets voided, the negative consequences of it are still applied.

When performing illegal actions, it is expected to use /me. This is because illegal actions should be performed so the appropriate parties can react to them. Putting on a CWU shirt in the middle of the plaza is suspicious, and they didn't stop you because they probably didn't notice it happening. This is why /me's are necessary. It gives a chance for all parties to react.

He would see you taking a bunch of clean clothes and then walking out of the warehouse. He might have just thought you were a CWU checking the stock in the cabinets—a /me is needed to differentiate. What information can he glean from you just standing stock still in front of them?

You need to perform the action; that's why we have the command. If we didn't use /me, everyone would just be standing around all the time, and no one would be able to tell if they were doing something else. This is basic HL2Rp.

Putting clothes on in plaza: First of all, there was no one around me which can be seen in the video, meaning a /me wouldn't change anything. Second, as I said before, CWU and everyone else changes clothes all the time in the middle of the plaza without anyone caring, and without /mes. I don't think it's necessary to type out a /me - all that does is unneededly decrease the amount of time I have to get in and out of the warehouse.

Taking the clothes from the cabinet: I first of all highly suggest you test to see if they're even within /me range - the CMU most definitely is not within range. This is really pushing it even for the two other CWU.

Besides, you said I could have done a /mec instead, no? They are obviously far out of range of that as well. Doing a /me would only have alerted the two other CWU workers that realistically would have zero idea of what I'm doing. The only thing a /me would change is them being able to metagame what I just did and become suspicious for zero reason at all.

Camera watching you walk up to the lockers.

Cameras would have seen you and identified you, and there is no CWU information in your data. Civil Protection is alerted and the stolen clothes are pinned on you. Case closed.

Okay, so is there somewhere that lists the full camera capability? Do the cameras identify everyone who enters the warehouse and flags them if they're not a CWU worker? How does it work when workers enter the warehouse for a shift - it must flag them all as well, right? How about yesterday when countless citizens were running in and out of the warehouse willy nilly to acquire water buckets? Are they all supposed to be anti-citizens too? Perhaps we should also mention the fact that I have a hat that should partially conceal my face. This is an incredibly slippery slope with far too many variables and holes. Saying "oh, the cameras would have seen and flagged you" is, in my opinion, a quite frankly lame excuse that can be applied to virtually every act of crime in the city.

This raises another question of mine then. How, realistically, would a heist occur in the game? It seems like it's basically impossible with all of these restrictions. If cameras immediately detect you, cops will swarm your location. If you have to /me and write out every single action, that adds on another 10-15 minutes of time for the authorities to show up. In my mind, this is the cleanest possible way to steal anything in the warehouse, yet I apparently will still be flagged as an anti-citizen and amputated, for reasons not even clearly documented nor seen in-game - I'm going to be BOL solely due to admin intervention and "cameras". I simply wish we could just accept what happened IC as IC.

 

[Lord Beckett]

Alright, your opinion. I disagree with it. Not much else to say. Pretty disappointed I'm basically unable to do anything of this sort again because they now know about it, despite never even actually having found out IC. They were only told OOC. Also, why were the containers removed? That's kind of outrageous that even after this situation gets voided, the negative consequences of it are still applied.

As you have said, you personally have stolen clothes from the warehouse on four separate occasions. The lockers have been a security hazard for the entire duration of the server. I see no reason to tell CWU to keep them, even if it was influenced by a voided situation.

Look at it this way. If a rebel group's base was constantly being entered by unauthorized people and all the instances were being voided, would they be metagaming if they blocked off more entrances in-game? The server has had issues with scripts falling into the wrong hands without very much effort at all. OOC actions need to be taken to remedy this, even if it doesn't make much IC sense.

Putting clothes on in plaza: First of all, there was no one around me which can be seen in the video, meaning a /me wouldn't change anything. Second, as I said before, CWU and everyone else changes clothes all the time in the middle of the plaza without anyone caring, and without /mes. I don't think it's necessary to type out a /me - all that does is unneededly decrease the amount of time I have to get in and out of the warehouse.

There are definitely people in the plaza, and the workers taking off/putting on uniforms in the plaza without a /me should definitely be doing so. I've never personally seen this happen, but if I did, I would tell them to be more realistic.

Taking the clothes from the cabinet: I first of all highly suggest you test to see if they're even within /me range - the CMU most definitely is not within range. This is really pushing it even for the two other CWU.
View attachment 4670

He clearly has a direct line of sight on you. If you don't think a /me would have reached him, then a /mel would have certainly worked. It doesn't really matter than he couldn't see the /me, realistically he could still be able to see you pulling clothes out of the locker. And the other two CWU could have heard you opening the locker and whatnot and become suspicious. These are the dangers of committing crimes in plain view.

Besides, you said I could have done a /mec instead, no? They are obviously far out of range of that as well. Doing a /me would only have alerted the two other CWU workers that realistically would have zero idea of what I'm doing. The only thing a /me would change is them being able to metagame what I just did and become suspicious for zero reason at all.

I said you didn't even do a /mec. This was merely to emphasize that you did absolutely no RP during the entire situation.

Okay, so is there somewhere that lists the full camera capability? Do the cameras identify everyone who enters the warehouse and flags them if they're not a CWU worker? How does it work when workers enter the warehouse for a shift - it must flag them all as well, right? How about yesterday when countless citizens were running in and out of the warehouse willy nilly to acquire water buckets? Are they all supposed to be anti-citizens too? Perhaps we should also mention the fact that I have a hat that should partially conceal my face. This is an incredibly slippery slope with far too many variables and holes. Saying "oh, the cameras would have seen and flagged you" is, in my opinion, a quite frankly lame excuse that can be applied to virtually every act of crime in the city.

This raises another question of mine then. How, realistically, would a heist occur in the game? It seems like it's basically impossible with all of these restrictions. If cameras immediately detect you, cops will swarm your location. If you have to /me and write out every single action, that adds on another 10-15 minutes of time for the authorities to show up. In my mind, this is the cleanest possible way to steal anything in the warehouse, yet I apparently will still be flagged as an anti-citizen and amputated, for reasons not even clearly documented nor seen in-game - I'm going to be BOL solely due to admin intervention and "cameras". I simply wish we could just accept what happened IC as IC.

It makes sense to me that a camera would have tagged you as a person who was wearing an unauthorized uniform. I believe Combine technology is perfectly capable of identifying you in these circumstances. I suppose the only real way to resolve this dispute is to get a CM who is knowledgeable on the lore to arbitrate.

 

[theHandgun]

It makes sense to me that a camera would have tagged you as a person who was wearing an unauthorized uniform. I believe Combine technology is perfectly capable of identifying you in these circumstances. I suppose the only real way to resolve this dispute is to get a CM who is knowledgeable on the lore to arbitrate.

Even if the camera didn't detect that at the time, CWU could report the stolen clothing to CPs and they could watch the recording to find out the person who left with the clothing. Since you weren't wearing a mask, CPs would easily mark you as an anti-citizen later on.

 

[Oebelysk]

Look at it this way. If a rebel group's base was constantly being entered by unauthorized people and all the instances were being voided, would they be metagaming if they blocked off more entrances in-game? The server has had issues with scripts falling into the wrong hands without very much effort at all. OOC actions need to be taken to remedy this, even if it doesn't make much IC sense.

This really isn't comparable in any way. The situation you bring up sounds like a case of blatant metagame, in which someone is breaking the rules and requires admin intervention to prevent it. THIS situation was completely IC, performed because of IC negligence. To then intervene as an admin to OOCly fix the negligence is unfair.

There are definitely people in the plaza, and the workers taking off/putting on uniforms in the plaza without a /me should definitely be doing so. I've never personally seen this happen, but if I did, I would tell them to be more realistic.

Okay, but you can literally see the clothes get changed in-game. It wouldn't change a thing. I don't have to rp picking up my ration, or walking, or breathing. Changing clothes should be the same. And if it's not, maybe it should be said in the rules.

He clearly has a direct line of sight on you. If you don't think a /me would have reached him, then a /mel would have certainly worked. It doesn't really matter than he couldn't see the /me, realistically he could still be able to see you pulling clothes out of the locker. And the other two CWU could have heard you opening the locker and whatnot and become suspicious. These are the dangers of committing crimes in plain view.

This doesn't really make any sense. Does this mean that every action has to be done with /mel, to include everyone who may have possibly seen the action? Are you saying I should have PMed the CMU and CWU? What am I supposed to do? The game isn't advanced enough to display me pulling clothes out of the locker. I don't know what more you want.

It makes sense to me that a camera would have tagged you as a person who was wearing an unauthorized uniform. I believe Combine technology is perfectly capable of identifying you in these circumstances. I suppose the only real way to resolve this dispute is to get a CM who is knowledgeable on the lore to arbitrate.

Then please elaborate on this in the rules. I don't know how I'm supposed to know all these unwritten guidelines. Every single thing I did in this situation was within the boundary of the ruleset. Everything you are telling me is frankly pulled out of thin air.

Even if the camera didn't detect that at the time, CWU could report the stolen clothing to CPs and they could watch the recording to find out the person who left with the clothing. Since you weren't wearing a mask, CPs would easily mark you as an anti-citizen later on.

They COULD report me to the CPs, you're right. They didn't. They were told OOC. Maybe we should allow these situations to play out in-game before telling everyone involved to let it actually play out realistically.

 

[theHandgun]

The only problem here I see is that you walked past the CWU managers without letting them know that you are carrying a huge load of clothing ICly which is extremely suspicious even to ordinary citizens. Yes, you are right, people store TVs and literally truck tires in their inventories but they gain these items through searching the trash without roleplaying, that's different from a roleplay scenario of you stealing items from the CWU factory.

But we also know that you wouldn't leave the door with that many shirts on you if you knew it would be counted visible IC'ly so Beckett decided to give you some complimentary rewards after voiding the whole situation. I think this was a fair decision because otherwise you would 99% be arrested for stealing these items later on and CWU management would be punished severely and a lot of drama would happen on CWU side about you not /me'ing while walking past them.

As for metagaming, I would normally agree with lettings things go IC'ly first and talk about OOC'ly later on BUT, you metabaited many people, including me, by posting the video of you stealing all of the items in general chat so I think you should've expected this to be talked in OOC medium as you were the one who carried it to OOC.

 

[Lord Beckett]

This really isn't comparable in any way. The situation you bring up sounds like a case of blatant metagame, in which someone is breaking the rules and requires admin intervention to prevent it. THIS situation was completely IC, performed because of IC negligence. To then intervene as an admin to OOCly fix the negligence is unfair.

They removed the lockers after being told of a voided situation, which directly relates to my example. Like I said, scripts being lost for very little effort is something we'd like to avoid, and removing the lockers is a totally reasonable way to do this.

Okay, but you can literally see the clothes get changed in-game. It wouldn't change a thing. I don't have to rp picking up my ration, or walking, or breathing. Changing clothes should be the same. And if it's not, maybe it should be said in the rules.


This doesn't really make any sense. Does this mean that every action has to be done with /mel, to include everyone who may have possibly seen the action? Are you saying I should have PMed the CMU and CWU? What am I supposed to do? The game isn't advanced enough to display me pulling clothes out of the locker. I don't know what more you want.

I think it's pretty clear that during CrimeRP, all steps should be taken to make sure that any potential witness has a chance of actually witnessing the event. You are correct in saying the game isn't advanced enough to show you stealing the clothes—that is why we have /me. CrimeRP without any discernible RP is borderline FailRP.

Then please elaborate on this in the rules. I don't know how I'm supposed to know all these unwritten guidelines. Every single thing I did in this situation was within the boundary of the ruleset. Everything you are telling me is frankly pulled out of thin air.

Hopefully a CM will respond soon to clear this up.

They COULD report me to the CPs, you're right. They didn't. They were told OOC. Maybe we should allow these situations to play out in-game before telling everyone involved to let it actually play out realistically.

Like I said, the cameras would have seen a man wearing an unauthorized uniform. CWU negligence would be a larger issue if they saw you taking the clothes and did nothing.

 

[Oebelysk]

There are definitely people in the plaza, and the workers taking off/putting on uniforms in the plaza without a /me should definitely be doing so. I've never personally seen this happen, but if I did, I would tell them to be more realistic.

There's literally no one in the plaza lol. This image was taken right before I put on the uniform

The only problem here I see is that you walked past the CWU managers without letting them know that you are carrying a huge load of clothing ICly which is extremely suspicious even to ordinary citizens. Yes, you are right, people store TVs and literally truck tires in their inventories but they gain these items through searching the trash without roleplaying, that's different from a roleplay scenario of you stealing items from the CWU factory.

But we also know that you wouldn't leave the door with that many shirts on you if you knew it would be counted visible IC'ly so Beckett decided to give you some complimentary rewards after voiding the whole situation. I think this was a fair decision because otherwise you would 99% be arrested for stealing these items later on and CWU management would be punished severely and a lot of drama would happen on CWU side about you not /me'ing while walking past them.

This is all completely OOC and up to staff interpretation, not to mention fully pulled out of thin air. Where does it say if I'm carrying a certain amount of items, I have to /me it? How can you retroactively include all these restrictions that are not once mentioned within the rules? None of this can be consistently abided by. How do players explain carrying 5 computer monitors? How can I fit an entire oven in my inventory? I don't get it.

As for metagaming, I would normally agree with lettings things go IC'ly first and talk about OOC'ly later on BUT, you metabaited many people, including me, by posting the video of you stealing all of the items in general chat so I think you should've expected this to be talked in OOC medium as you were the one who carried it to OOC.

What? I don't even know what this is referencing. I never posted the video in any general chat.

They removed the lockers after being told of a voided situation, which directly relates to my example. Like I said, scripts being lost for very little effort is something we'd like to avoid, and removing the lockers is a totally reasonable way to do this.

Take it IC then. Again, the scripts were lost for little effort because of IC actions. it shouldn't be then made OOC.

I think it's pretty clear that during CrimeRP, all steps should be taken to make sure that any potential witness has a chance of actually witnessing the event. You are correct in saying the game isn't advanced enough to show you stealing the clothes—that is why we have /me. CrimeRP without any discernible RP is borderline FailRP.

Again, feel free to test if the CMU is within /me range because he isn't. A /me wouldn't change anything except encourage metagame. There's nothing else to say on the issue.

Like I said, the cameras would have seen a man wearing an unauthorized uniform. CWU negligence would be a larger issue if they saw you taking the clothes and did nothing.

So they have this ability now? I've had a different character with an unauthorized uniform for some time and I've performed multiple CID scams and nothing was ever mentioned of that. Cameras saw me multiple times too, so how does that work?

I've enjoyed this server because of a lack of rules and freedom. However, when the gaps in the rules have to be filled with admin interpretation that's when situations like this occur. Cameras can either detect these things, or they can't. Either I can walk past with clothes in my hands, or I can't. YOU may think I have to /me putting on my uniform, but it says no where I have to do this. Every single thing that you are saying is not included in the rules and is completely up to your own interpretation. I will say this again - this entire event was done within the confines of the rules.

 

[Lord Beckett]

There's literally no one in the plaza lol. This image was taken right before I put on the uniform
View attachment 4676

People by the stall if you look closely.

This is all completely OOC and up to staff interpretation, not to mention fully pulled out of thin air. Where does it say if I'm carrying a certain amount of items, I have to /me it? How can you retroactively include all these restrictions that are not once mentioned within the rules? None of this can be consistently abided by. How do players explain carrying 5 computer monitors? How can I fit an entire oven in my inventory? I don't get it.

I'm not too concerned about the illogical nature of the inventory, but more so the lack of a /me when committing the crime. It was my understanding that CrimeRP has more expectations than normal RP. Unless a staff member would like to correct me, it is my belief that you should have performed a /me when stealing those clothes.

Again, feel free to test if the CMU is within /me range because he isn't. A /me wouldn't change anything except encourage metagame. There's nothing else to say on the issue.

I've already explained how he would clearly be able to see what you're doing from that distance. Doesn't matter whether or not the /me could have reached him. You committed a crime in front of several people and provided no /me to make you accountable. Refer to the point above.

I've enjoyed this server because of a lack of rules and freedom. However, when the gaps in the rules have to be filled with admin interpretation that's when situations like this occur. Cameras can either detect these things, or they can't. Either I can walk past with clothes in my hands, or I can't. YOU may think I have to /me putting on my uniform, but it says no where I have to do this. Every single thing that you are saying is not included in the rules and is completely up to your own interpretation. I will say this again - this entire event was done within the confines of the rules.

To be fair, almost all rules in life have some interpretation that goes along with them. That's why we have courts and judges. It is my belief that this situation should be voided considering all the factors at play, or if it is taken IC, then the CWU will be punished and you will be arrested. That's all I have to say on the matter, and I leave the decision up to those who will review the complaint.

 

[Maroon]

I'm not too concerned about the illogical nature of the inventory, but more so the lack of a /me when committing the crime. It was my understanding that CrimeRP has more expectations than normal RP. Unless a staff member would like to correct me, it is my belief that you should have performed a /me when stealing those clothes.

It's not in the rules, technically. We already set a prescedent that certain things that aren't specifically mentioned in our ruleset go unpunished. I don't see why this would be an exception.

 

[Lord Beckett]

It's not in the rules, technically. We already set a prescedent that certain things that aren't specifically mentioned in our ruleset go unpunished. I don't see why this would be an exception.

If my decision is out of line with precedent, then I was unaware. It would be appreciated if an SA+ could clear this up.

 

[Oebelysk]

Any way I can get a response on this? This is really the only other character I play and can't do so because of this

 

[Robert]

Can I get a quick rundown on what happened and what this complaint is about exactly. Or You can wait for another few hours as I go to sleep and answer the next day.

 

[Oebelysk]

Can I get a quick rundown on what happened and what this complaint is about exactly. Or You can wait for another few hours as I go to sleep and answer the next day.

I stole cleaned clothes from the CWU unlocked container and requested actual wearable clothes. I’m given a bad deal and don’t accept it, and the next day the containers are removed, the entire thing is voided, and the CWU managers are informed of what I did OOC

 

[Robert]

Understandable.

I will let you have the original deal of what you were supposed to get. However, next time when doing crimes like these make sure you do /me's when switching clothes essentially disguising yourself and the taking of the clothes from the cabinet. CWU seemed to move the cabinets themselves by expanding their storage options and renovating their warehouse. It wasn't done over the fact you stole clothes.

It will be unvoided, but keep a note of this: Cameras identify you with facial recognition. It doesn't take long for a camera to look at you and know exactly who you are. Which you walked straight past a few as clear as day so they will know exactly who you are.

Do you accept these conditions?

1. You get your original deal for the clothes
2. The situation is no longer voided
   1. Cameras noticed you however
   2. This may result in IC consequences.

 

[Oebelysk]

Understandable.

I will let you have the original deal of what you were supposed to get. However, next time when doing crimes like these make sure you do /me's when switching clothes essentially disguising yourself and the taking of the clothes from the cabinet. CWU seemed to move the cabinets themselves by expanding their storage options and renovating their warehouse. It wasn't done over the fact you stole clothes.

It will be unvoided, but keep a note of this: Cameras identify you with facial recognition. It doesn't take long for a camera to look at you and know exactly who you are. Which you walked straight past a few as clear as day so they will know exactly who you are.

Do you accept these conditions?

1. You get your original deal for the clothes
2. The situation is no longer voided
   1. Cameras noticed you however
   2. This may result in IC consequences.

Yes, this is completely fair. I must suggest that the camera recognition mechanic be elaborated on in the rules so something like this doesn’t happen however

 

[Robert]

Closing. The deal was 3 clean clothes for 1 clothing item right? Just to confirm the original deal.