Dingo8MyBud's Ban Appeal

[Maddox]

Steam Name: Dingo8MyBud | My Man
SteamID: STEAM_0:1:65282790 | STEAM_0:0:93978068

Name of the Admin you were banned by: [OP] Windbomb

How long is the ban for?: 1 month

The reason you were banned?: Metagame

Why do you wish to be unbanned?: Because I didn't metagame. -- To summarise the entire situation, I was watching the stream following my attack on the cameras because I was bound by the 15 minute charswap/disconnect rule. Thus, I sat around in the bunker, planning to hop off because it was about 3:00am at the time, and it's now 6:33am at the time of me writing this. Naturally, not happy about that. Anyways, continuing on, after a while I remembered there was still another biolock on the door in RB-2, and so I put myself near the entrance of the bunker to listen for CP footsteps. Couldn't hear anything, and eventually opened the door and headed on outside. Put myself near the glass window right at the end of the field in CZ-1, in front of Sunrise, and shot my Uzi to see if they would come running for it, if I heard footsteps or vo-coders, obviously they're still sweeping, and I would've dashed back to the bunker, obviously. Once nothing happened, or came of me shooting my gun, I got as close as I could get comfortably to the restrictor by PCS-3/CZ-1 ingress, and shot again. Didn't hear vo-coders or running, and so voila! Sweeps over, and so I wrapped around the one-way in CZ-1/RB-2, ran down to the door with the biolock, blasted it and made my way back to the bunker unharmed. Absolutely nothing was gained from the stream being open, because all the information to which I used to my advantage had been obtained ICly. If my intention was to meta, why would I risk exposing myself/waste ammo to make sure they're there or not if I 'already know'? -- The screenshot that was provided to warrant the ban was entirely without context, which hopefully is rectified here.

Do you have any picture or video evidence to support your reason?: Yes, as follows;



Were there any witnesses who can help in this appeal?: My Man

 

[JKSheo]

First 40 seconds it's blatant you metaed, not only was MYMAN on his cop when he told you to run, you we're literally tabbed into a vc and stream while you were shotgunning cams and running from cops.

idk just seems like meta to me

 

[Spine]

Here is also the picture that shows you sharing the view with @MY MAN on his cp while the cops were searching for you.

 

[Maddox]

First 40 seconds it's blatant you metaed, not only was MYMAN on his cop when he told you to run, you we're literally tabbed into a vc and stream while you were shotgunning cams and running from cops.

idk just seems like meta to me

w-... what? he didnt tell me to... run?

 

[Maddox]

and the only time i was watching the stream was while i was in the metabase..

 

[NEYO]

Yo,

Denied, evidence provided shows you were metaing the sweep for your character as it was happening.

Some of the evidence/logs provided by the admins involved:

 

[Maddox]

Yo,

Denied, evidence provided shows you were metaing the sweep for your character as it was happening.

Some of the evidence/logs provided by the admins involved:
View attachment 5653View attachment 5654View attachment 5655View attachment 5656

Actively doesn't prove anything. Complete lack of regard or professionalism... None of these logs, nor the screenshot proves literally anything. There is an extreme amount of bias here, and well.. I'm incredibly disappointed.

 

[Maddox]

None of the information that could have been provided by the stream was used ICly, and the lack of explaination demonstrates an already lackluster """"""investigation""""""". And what does the logs with Viktor have *anything* to do with meta? What does me RPing with a guy who needed food have *anything* to do with meta? What does me watching the stream while inside of the base before I was getting off have *anything* to do with meta? It doesn't. Because I didn't use any information for an IC advantage.

There is no proof here, nothing to suggest I've done anything wrong on my part, nothing to imply I've used the information for my own gain. You have banned someone without reason, which entirely defeats the purpose of punishment, to reinforce what they did wrong. Thing is, I don't even know what I did wrong. I uh, well I really don't know what to say.

Right, welp, I don't see this going anywhere. Cheers

 

[Maddox]

Yo,

Denied, evidence provided shows you were metaing the sweep for your character as it was happening.

Some of the evidence/logs provided by the admins involved:
View attachment 5653View attachment 5654View attachment 5655View attachment 5656

Let me add this, if you are to suggest that streaming in and of itself is somehow metagame, then that is nowhere defined in the rules. And, consequently; a lot of people need to get banned.

 

[Deleted member 418]

By this logic, if hes metagaming then whoever was streaming was certainly metabaiting, am i right? Lol
Nice discord group y'all got there anyway.

You'd be surprised how many Discord groups are active. There is one for pretty much every rebel group on the server, same goes for (I'm almost 100% certain on that) OTA, Civil Protection, CWU etc.

I find it quite appalling to issue bans based on the fact somebody is streaming. Streams happen nearly every day on the main Willard discord and no one is ever issued a ban over it. If streaming bears such a high risk of people apparantly metagaming things, then it should be banned all together if staff desires to avoid clusterfucks of drama such as this. In theory, every person streaming is also metabaiting. Every person watching, could be metagaming. You can't 100% rule out the risk factor, irregardless of who is watching at the time.

I understand how streaming a CP/OTA sweep can look kind of weird, especially if others are inside with their rebel characters, though unless there is clear evidence of said stream being used in order to gain an advantange, and not knowing of it due to IC influences (which happens a lot, trust me, almost all the time a sweep happens, people hear of it IC first because the slums is tight knit like that) then this should not be held against somebody.

My advise to @RedHotGinger as a Community Manager in this case (I'll just tag you since I think you're the right person for this) is to have a sit down with staff, re-consider this and just ban streams all together if you want to avoid further complications of this caliber in the future. You can never know or trust anyone not to do something bad.

As for this appeal, IMO, 1 month for something like this seems crass. Think 2 weeks would of done the job as well, just like @Ehrenmann got for when he got banned for the use of /actwindow.

 

[Robert]

Lemme put this into a very simple way that is easy to understand from my perspective:

1. We got the above screenshots that you were in a group chat with a CP present and you playing as Rebel. The CP was streaming. This alone is not too bad but already raises tons of Red flags
   1. However, because the CP was streaming, that already counts as a Metabait for him so his ban is unappealable in contrast to you.
2. While playing your Rebel, the CPs were about to sweep from what I saw and I was told at the time you weren't really doing much at this point, maybe another staff member can clarify but you were sorta just waiting in your base... again nothing incriminating here.
3. The CPs sweep the slums and finish up, as they are leaving, you magically run out of the bunker and go to fire a few shots with an Uzi in the slums, attracting all the CPs once again. You Immediately run back to the bunker.
   1. That may not sound like much but the question for me is: "The only way to pull off that convenient timing is to know exactly when they are leaving and to know they were sweeping beforehand." This much you seemed to know somehow despite sitting in a bunker, seemingly knowing where the CPs are and what they are currently doing.
4. When the CPs left again, nothing much happened afterwards probably because we had dewhitelisted and kicked the Cp who was providing information in your group chat whether knowingly or unknowingly.
5. For a note: A group chat with a CP and Rebel in the same chat who work together and sit in the same rebel group is like... a big no no. It's basically like 2 friends giving a helping hand. Just don't do it. If you know someone else in a chat is playing an opposing faction, avoid communicating with them or leave the VC.

In the end, everything here is very sus. The CP for sure was metabaiting with his stream, and yes, streams do count as metabait so would heavily advise against anyone doing them. As for you, your metagame case is currently based on staff suspicion based on what they saw, I am not 100% informed about it, I only got glimpses from my perspective and did see quite a lot of sus activity from you. Other staff such as @SteyrShotgun @Hiros and @Windbomb

I do believe the staff I listed were the ones present, but they can correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Wraygun]

I find it quite appalling to issue bans based on the fact somebody is streaming.

The ban wasn't issued for streaming. It was used for using the information that was provided during the stream to avoid our sweep yesterday.

I understand how streaming a CP/OTA sweep can look kind of weird

It is weird to stream something like this in a rebel discord, especially if you consider that the user in question is a CP streaming to his friend who is hiding from the sweep in question. And judging by the fact of how well the two know each other, it only adds to this factor.

though unless there is clear evidence of said stream being used

Believe it or not, but the stream affects you in some ways, without even realizing it: you subconsciously avoid CP patrols and their whereabouts if you're aware of their location.

 

[Light]

Yo,

Denied, evidence provided shows you were metaing the sweep for your character as it was happening.

Some of the evidence/logs provided by the admins involved:
View attachment 5653View attachment 5654View attachment 5655View attachment 5656

Why'd you include me and my man's logs? This doesn't prove anything other than I was mad about two cool members I knew getting banned and dewhitelisted from the CP faction.

All this really served to do is introduce me into a ban appeal I wouldn't normally comment in.

 

[Light]

I'm sure you've all made a conclusion here, but let me remind you that they both got banned for a month for two biolocks. Sure, you can say they've metagamed or metabaited whatever floats your boat but the context makes this sort or punishment laughable. RebelRP thrives with my man and Dingo and they should not be punished this much for this. We need to change the rules to make this sort of thing absolutely clear from now on so more beloved players are not cast away like this. My man alone had sunk in the effort to become an i1 and yet he says he's done with the cp faction even if he was given the chance for another whitelist.

Ban streams from now on, sure, but it should not be a retroactive ban.

This is my personal opinion and I hope you are able to reflect on it.

 

[Spine]

RebelRP thrives with my man and Dingo

All they're doing is breaking down cameras and blowing up locks, which forces me to respond with sweeps that don't work because they simply just run into a rebel base.
Rinse and repeat. Thank God for this character development.

 

[Light]

All they're doing is breaking down cameras and blowing up locks, which forces me to respond with sweeps that don't work because they simply just run into a rebel base.
Rinse and repeat. Thank God for this character development.

This is the entire point of a guerella resistance.

Sure, CPs dont get as much out of it as they do, but they do get a reputation and it increases their standing for it.

 

[Spine]

This is the entire point of a guerella resistance.

It's to not know they're there until it's too late. What exactly did you destabilize- or did anything productive?

 

[Light]

It's to not know they're there until it's too late. What exactly did you destabilize- or did anything productive?

I don't play as a rebel so you can't really ask me. With the current linear map I would say its their only option to make themselves heard. You cant really blow up a factory without the entire mpf running up your ass the entire time. (Also I wasn't here during the 19th event so if there is a comparable voided thing from then that'd help prove my point here).

Look, I am a CP main through and through, if you want to capture these evasion-behavior rebels, then come up with an ic plan to get rid of them, like staking them out, we didn't do that after the first injection and therefore we lost dingo, simple. Not saying he wasn't metagaming, that's not my call, but we just lost a guy with a gun and left like nothing ever happened, it's highly likely he just easily ran off after doing it again. That's our mistake.

In addition, metabait is usually a 1 week ban and not a 1 month ban, yet my man was served both a 1 month ban and a dewhitelist from his i1 CP, which I find overkill. I believe it may outline a bias or a specific disliking to these two members of the community who have otherwise been outstanding members of the community in my eyes, dingo as D-6 helped set up the CWD and was an amazing CP alongside being a donator and my man spent enough time and effort in the MPF to get himself to i1 and to develop his rebel character. I'm not saying bias is certainly here but there's definitely a hint of it at the very least and if it is involved here that is simply unnacceptable.

 

[Mulky]

It is weird to stream something like this in a rebel discord, especially if you consider that the user in question is a CP streaming to his friend who is hiding from the sweep in question. And judging by the fact of how well the two know each other, it only adds to this factor.

Yes, it very much is, everyone in the discord is a suspect in that case

 

[Mulky]

It's also quite funny that despite the amount of information used and seen by both the correspondents of said Discord server that comes from stream, this is the only instance of it being caught. Where does this info come from? I made the discord

Edit: And no, they're not the only ones that are doing this. Whatever happened in this appeal is very small compared to what has been happening around.