How should you play as Civil Protection, OTA, etc?

[Kappatalist]

On the flipside, Leudo's CP was taken captive by rebels after a sweep got demolished, and the results weren't ice breakers either. It was primarily a horde of people trying to fastgrab scripts by spamming /me loots the cop; to the point where we had to make a /localevent to tell people there's nothing else to loot. They then dragged him to the roof, and disregarding any other opportunity they may have had with a hostage for ransom under their hand, they just executed him.

I would've liked to have done something here but we just... didn't really have many options at the time, nowhere to take him and keeping him there would've made the attackers double their efforts to get to him. And the argument goes against rebels here too, it's a shame. Ideally that wouldn't have happened though, and we'd have been able to do something more constructive for RP - it goes for cops, too. The situation just isn't viable sometimes.

I'm not going to write a lot but, my 2 cents on OTA is that they just run around s2k and pk everyone in their path it's really pointless to RP especially when CP and OTA sweep at the same time. I know I may be wrong but, that is all I see about the problem. I agree with everything cloud said.

This is definitely the case with a lot, but it should be said that I've seen OTA play in good faith / s2m in most of my encounters.

 

[Silver]

CPs will never P2L and they shouldn’t either, they have developed characters too, they shouldn’t be expected to P2L if rebels are gonna go beast mode.

Aye I can agree with OTA during certain circumstances but not CPs

 

[Eviction Notice]

everyone should play to win, that way all deaths are on fair, equal ground

 

[Kamilisha Haijulikani]

theare not a lot of CPs on map any more from what i did notice. it make me feel lonely when i rp as my citizen.

i feel like this could be fixed by addiing NPC combine & civil protection characters all you need to do is spawn them from spawn menu and it will improve the ambience very much!

Civil protection Should be pay to win because they are much more trained than citizen and all rebels should pay to lose as theyare not as good.

 

[Cloudbucket]

CPs will never P2L and they shouldn’t either, they have developed characters too, they shouldn’t be expected to P2L if rebels are gonna go beast mode.

Aye I can agree with OTA during certain circumstances but not CPs

I believe depending on the scenario this changes. Should cops go absolute ham on the slums? Are rebels shotcoping in the streets?

Some of their characters are developed sure, but so are some of the rebels.

Of course this P2L situation varies based on scenario.

I believe I should rephrase my statement to thus

‘Civil Protection should P2L in a situation that would bring no direct harm to themselves’

Of course upon saying P2L it should be more so Medium to loose. Where as both sides win some and loose some to keep things going.

 

[Silver]

Al

I believe depending on the scenario this changes. Should cops go absolute ham on the slums? Are rebels shotcoping in the streets?

Some of their characters are developed sure, but so are some of the rebels.

Of course this P2L situation varies based on scenario.

I believe I should rephrase my statement to thus

‘Civil Protection should P2L in a situation that would bring no direct harm to themselves’

Of course upon saying P2L it should be more so Medium to loose. Where as both sides win some and loose some to keep things going.

Alright that sounds better than just handing the rebels their heads on a plate. Both sides have developed chars that shouldn’t mean the other side should roll onto their back and die

 

[vilhjalmrf]

The idea of CPs P2L... is why even suggest that idea? CPs have developed characters too. Literally the vast majority of them are NOT brainwashed hardcore loyalists who are willing to die for the Force like OTA. Not even Rank Leaders, maybe a bit of brainwashing but they're cut throats who would flee when they get the chance. They are citizens with guns just like rebels. I really think Rebels and CPs should have an equal footing in terms of weapons and armor. It's ridiculous to me how so many rebels have AKs, ARs, or any rifle that can just wipe the floor with CPs. But that's an argument for another day. OTA P2L? Possibly. But for rebels and CPs, they should both have an even ground level to fight on.

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

everyone should play to win, that way all deaths are on fair, equal ground

This is the absolute worst reality we unfortunately have to entrench ourselves in, as some players legitimately believe this is the way you should play on every character.

This goes both for rebels and combine.

The only way to combat this problem is implement fair restrictions in place for both sides.

Rebel example: Make scripts less common, I legitimately think pre rebel overhaul update was rebelRP’s prime time, it made illusive positions like CWU insider much more enjoyable- Sneakily swiping a worker uniform/filter just under the nose of your boss is a very fun experience. Not to mention the emphasis on co-operation to progress, nowadays John Doe can rebel all by himself no issue- THIS SHOULD NOT BE HOW IT WORKS.

Combine example: HEADCOUNT FUCKING SWEEPS, A blind, deaf, paraplegic old man suffering from brain damage could recognize that the combine have an extreme advantage over rebels- ranging from probes that can give an instant update on the situation of one spot on the map to the ENTIRE force, all the way to technologically enhanced super soldiers that can vaporize anything in their path. With this in mind; we should temper our expectations when dealing with guerilla-war fighters, because the combine would? NO. For the sake of RP. It makes sense that OTA would dispatch a sweep for a vortigaunt/rebel victory, but; ‘12 OTA shadow-sweep’ is just another euphemism for ‘butt-fuck’. I get that the combine are powerful, but they are also utilitarian, meaning; they have killing machines, but laconically use them in favor of the CP cannon fodder.

TLDR: I wish we could trust eachother to have fun and roleplay- but I doubt that’s what all of us are here for. So we should set boundaries in place to force ourselves to have fun.

 

[Cloudbucket]

FYI this thread is just to spark discussion. I understand my opinion is a bit extreme lol.

 

[Icaria]

FYI this thread is just to spark discussion. I understand my opinion is a bit extreme lol.

Not really, thank you for sharing it! It's always good to have open discussion in the community, and you don't have to feel bad about sparking it.

I've been around the block with HL2RP, and at the end of the day, you have to realize that there is a multitude of different player groups, and what they come to HL2RP for is radically different from one another. In this context, I think it's important to differentiate between two of the (many!) major groups of players who tend to seek out HL2RP.

The storytellers, and the power-players.

Storytellers are the players who play HL2RP to create characters primarily to tell stories, as a form of cooperative storytelling and acting, developing relationships and building up a cohesive story between multiple characters. These kinds of players tend to have attachments to their characters, but also understand that losing, failure, and fighting against the odds is one of the primary driving forces of HL2RP character development, and tend to "go along" with the story that these failures bring, even if it puts their characters in a worse place. These players tend to be attracted to factions that allow them to tell stories and share them with other players with the most ease, such as citizens, CWU, and City Administration.

Power-players are the players who play HL2RP to earn achievements of some kind, whether that be in the form of scripts, ranks (IC or OOC!), or general 'prestige' in the community. These players are the ones who want to 'win' in one form or another, and to use the medium to gain that position over other players. These players thrive off having 'goals' set out for them, whether self-set or given by the system itself. These players tend to be attracted to factions that have clear-cut goals and methods, like the Loyalists, MPF, and the classic 'scriptwhore rebel'.

Does it mean that these types of players never cross over? Will a storyteller never play an MPF character to tell a story, or will a power-player never sit down and have a long conversation in character? Of course not! However, it's important to understand that the core of what makes HL2RP enjoyable to these two different groups, is fundamentally different.

I think that at the root of the question of "how should you play as a Civil Protection unit?", these two groups are what makes it so hard to answer. These two groups are essentially at each other's throats in an ever-escalating arms race between one another because the core of HL2RP reward systems relies on player conflict. In the eyes of power-players, the way to 'progress' throughout the various systems of HL2RP is through conflict, whether that be MPF units wanting to do successful sweeps and take out citizens for the sake of being considered for promotions, citizens wanting to gank MPF officers to get the tokens and scripts needed to gain more power and influence, or even loyalists reporting information for loyalty points. And to do those things, you need to "win" against other players.

Now, are those things inherently bad? I personally don't think so, HL2RP is a setting rife with conflict, violence, and confrontation between those who have accepted the new status-quo of colonial oppression and fascism, and those who work against it. Having players motivated to start conflict is a great thing to keep the server active, and to promote character development from the fallout. The issue comes when WINNING that conflict is the key to progress, because the players who get their fun primarily from gaining that progress, will not want to lose it.

In response, the storytellers have two options to choose from. They can simply accept the power-players who want to win every conflict and allow them to do so. However, most people can tell you a story of constantly losing, with no real chance of positive progress, isn't one that's easy to be interested in, especially when it's combined with the risk of losing characters in ways that can feel unfair. So the second option is more common. Fight and argue, using the same methods of P2Wing power-players use. This is where most servers end up, and I'm sure by now everyone has either been or been part of the horrible drama that this can bring.

We need to acknowledge that we're not dealing with a problem with just "shitty players" (though those tend to exasperate these issues!), but a systematic problem with how HL2RP's progress is structured to reward people who win conflicts and punish those who lose them, and how that puts the different groups of people who enjoy HL2RP at OOC conflict with one another. Rules, restrictions, and mounds of text about what-to-do and what-not-to-do don't matter in the end if we fail to address that division of what people actually want out of this world.

The two easiest solutions I can think of to solve this would be making consequences of losing be minuscule enough that people don't feel the need to reactively power-game at the risk of losing their own progress (something that a good chunk of the HL2RP player base doesn't enjoy, as it can strip away the risk and fear of the setting), or to entirely restructure how the goals power-players seek out are awarded, to make those goals focus on creating interesting characters and stories (something that is hard to measure, takes a long time to implement, and relies on other players who could be biased). I'd talk more about other ways that this could be potentially remedied, but I fear I've already talked way too much here, and it'd be better fitting for a separate post entirely!

 

[Rabid]

In response, the storytellers have two options to choose from. They can simply accept the power-players who want to win every conflict and allow them to do so. However, most people can tell you a story of constantly losing, with no real chance of positive progress, isn't one that's easy to be interested in, especially when it's combined with the risk of losing characters in ways that can feel unfair. So the second option is more common. Fight and argue, using the same methods of P2Wing power-players use. This is where most servers end up, and I'm sure by now everyone has either been or been part of the horrible drama that this can bring.

Adding on to this;

Cops are hit especially hard because they are literally forced to risk their characters in a PK zone for the sake of server balance - aka sweep. They can't opt out of it IC or OOC either (and you can't let them opt out either because then you embolden the shitters in RebelRP via OOC weakness).

So with that in mind, why wouldn't you shoot downed rebels characters to double-tap them if you are constantly at risk of a PK yourself and need to make sure you get out of that sweep alive?

This is especially true given situations like what @flork mentioned - I'm sorry but if getting captured has either a very slim chance of being liked enough to go rogue or the much more likely of being looted by a horde of script goblins and my character subsequently executed I'm just making sure I don't get captured to begin with tbh.

I'm not even saying that from a "I wanna win" perspective either, I'm a storyteller, I just want to keep playing my character until I'm satisfied with ending them - and sadly the current setup encourages both sides to fight as hard as possible at all times.