What's the appeal of PK? (And my problems with it)

[Bounter]

Hello there gamers, and I offer you, a little (or not) post regarding PK. Which is both a question, but also my personal stance on it.

Now, if you have seen me in game, or in here, then you know that I am not the biggest fan of PK, maybe because I've never experienced it before (in any other game, or other Gmod RP servers, serious or semi) but in general, I'm not a fan. And the whole point I make this post, is to know why people like it in the first place?

The 3 main arguments (I'll get to 3rd one later) I have heard basically boil down to either preventing "chaos" and wanting people to be "careful" which, is not really fair, since even if you ARE careful, you can still die to bullshit, or something unavoidable, so at times it doesn't help. And preventing chaos, is not really that true since losing all of your items on you, and part of XP, prevents you from doing same things as before, at least immediately. Since you'll have to get your shit again, which is easier said than done.
However, another main argument, is that it makes you "want to be careful" and "care for your character" and so on, like your irl pet and such, so you don't lose them, or like someone loved who you don't want to die. But here is the problem with this logic... PEOPLE PLAY GAMES TO GET AWAY FROM REALITY. Like, seriously. People play games to escape from reality, or not focus on it as much, to relax and so on. And basically FORCING THEM to have to care about something FICTIONAL as if it's real, is in my opinion, just kind of cruel. There is a reason games that don't have PK are incredibly popular, or just better, but that's a different argument.

What I also don't understand is why it even exists? I mean... Other RPGs like Lord of the Rings Online, Fallout 76, Elder Scrolls Online etc. DO NOT have PK, so I don't understand why it even exists. Like what is the point? If the best RPGs (Fallout 1,2, NV, KOTOR 1 and 2) do not have it, then why even think about adding it? And yes, I know some people do Perma-Kill/Death runs in games, but that is ONLY for challenge. Not for the "immersion". Since, immersion doesn't come only from dying and losing everything, but also you know, the environment, music, design and so on. Basically, other things.

Now, when it comes to problems with PK, my personal ones at least, then there are a few, not really a number since I don't have a list on me, but basically, they are just things I hate about PK, that I think actively HURT the server.

- FORCING you into Passive RP - Now, you might be saying that PassiveRP is big part of HL2RP and yeah, that is true. But there is a difference between encouraging it. And FORCING you into it. And PK, definitely pushes you into it in a "forcing" way. Because, whenever I join the server, majority of people I see are folks that never have to take risks in order to survive (aside from 1), those being: Civil Protection (again, only one exception, but they have guns and authority, also literal gestapo), Loyalists (usually safe, can get stuff others don't, better rations), Shopkeepers and Workers (They work for their living with no risks, either in safe shops or working), and people who simply don't take risks. And, most of these, are passive RP based. Because, if doing ANYTHING risky, can cause you to lose everything, then what's the point of doing anything else? Like, it just feels counter-productive.

- Restricting player freedom - Might seem odd, but it kind of does that, even if not intentional. Dying means losing a character, and you CAN'T make them again, technically restricting freedom. You can't just go into 404 to find stuff, or such, since dying means losing everything, therefore it's too risky and usually not worth. AND DOING things that are in spirit of gmod (game you're playing) and freedom, are not allowed. You can't just build a little shack for the homeless. A stand with food, a shelter, nothing like that, since if CP is not happy about it, they will amputate on the spot which equals being deleted. Also, having a single character, which most people do, also is out of the question, since if you die as that character, they go down the sh*tter. Speaking of characters however...

- Causing people to leave and never return - This one is actually kind of known, but if you don't know about it, let me explain. Many people on the server BELIEVE IT OR NOT have only a SINGLE character that they stick to. And never make more. This is more common than you might think, and I don't know why it's done, in my opinion, it might be the "maxing out" aspect like in most games with levels where you have a single character you max out, and then move on to another. But it is also usually done, since having a single character to connect to, is much more interesting and it's like in real life you might be attached to your dog, cat, rat, boyfriend, girlfriend etc. So basically, people would be UPSET when they lose them. And from what I have talked with, with most people on the server I met, they said that if they would die, they would quit the server and never return. ONE OF THEM, had like 700 hours on one character, and when he died, he stopped playing for a month. Now, he has around 300-400 on the 2nd one, and told me if the ever dies again, he will just quit the server in general. So... It's not really a good way of keeping players, since most people, simply don't like that. A lot of people don't like that, but that's why they either play other servers, or only do passive, so take that as you will.

TL : DR - Why does PK exists, what's the appeal? + I have problems with it, that are not only "me" related but can hurt other people too. It's not perfect, it's kinda flawed actually.

 

[Imperator RAD-X]

One problem: every game you listed is some form of MMO. We are serious RP with RPG elements, not a fully fledged game with countless mechanics.

PKs are a mature and adult form of simulating the end of a character. It's been this way since OpenAura and Clockwork. Your character died, oh well. Create another. If people leave the server over having their characters PK'd, they're playing the wrong gamemode and shouldn't be fit playing Serious RP. Semi-serious, definitely. That is a sacrificial hill I'm willing to defend till the last days of earth, itself.

Try not to get PKd next time, alright?

 

[𝔄𝔪𝔟𝔢𝔯𝔮]

- Yeah, there's some bullshit stuff currently, maybe needs some resolving, but most of what you may call bullshit is resolved in a pk appeal.
- To get away from reality? Not so much in *seriousrp*. Things are closer to reality here than in most places.
- I don't understand how it forces you into passiverp, its your choice if you want to risk it or not with something, so this seems personal.
- Restricting freedom? Its seriousrp. People dying makes sense, instead of seeing them again after rping a brutal and epic end five minutes later naked in a store buying all their stuff back.
-Main character syndrome is also personal, and even then a majority of players cope with it and keep playing.

 

[𝔄𝔪𝔟𝔢𝔯𝔮]

Would you complain IRL if your choices were to live a passive life or risk death every five minutes fighting for a cause that you cant do the latter because you'd die and not be able to come back?

 

[vilhjalmrf]

PKs are to add consequences to your actions and to those around you. It'll be weird if you see your buddy die one day to a fiery explosion and stabbings then you seem them all fine the next day talking about having a sore toe. If that be the case then nothing would ever matter. People can shotcop all day and lose nothing. CPs can sweep all day and lose nothing. Every citizen to ever exist can go play rebel without the risk of losing neither of their belongings or their character. PKs have been around for a long time, I do not see it leaving at all.

To put it simply, if you decide to take a risk then that's on you if it bites back. If you can't handle that then this just really ain't for you.

 

[𝔄𝔪𝔟𝔢𝔯𝔮]

I got used to it doe, so will you. Once you play enough.

 

[Neonity]

Part of what makes serious RP believable is that most of the time when a character dies, they're actually dead. They don't reappear 5 minutes later ready to do it all over again. It adds weight and risk to your actions, and those around you too. When your character's friend sees you die, they'll likely mourn you, and it might fundamentally change the way their character acts. Maybe they'll become extra violent or bloodthirsty when they were previously a pacificist character. The death of your character can affect others in this way a simple NLR could never do. Mourning a dead character only to have them reappear 5 minutes later makes little sense.

Everyone's characters are part of a bigger story, and the death of those characters is essential to driving the story forward. It prevents the same characters from wandering around the city for 2 years straight because they can simply walk back every time someone gets pissed off enough to decide to kill them. Or a heroic sacrifice that ultimately amounts to nothing, because they can just come back like nothing happened away. Or a massive CP sweep resulting in countless of deaths from both sides, ultimately meaningless and affected nothing. CPs never lost their closest allies, rebels didn't lose long forged alliances. Everything stays the same.

To date, the best experience I've had in serious RP was barely surviving with a group of close-knit rebels in the outlands. We had to fight for our lives just to get enough food to survive for another day, and had to take the lives of other player characters in doing so. This experience was amazing because every situation meant life or death, and we were constantly risking it all. It was thrilling in a way that could have never been achieved if we could just respawn and try again if we failed.

 

[Belgg]

Hello there gamers, and I offer you, a little (or not) post regarding PK. Which is both a question, but also my personal stance on it.

Now, if you have seen me in game, or in here, then you know that I am not the biggest fan of PK, maybe because I've never experienced it before (in any other game, or other Gmod RP servers, serious or semi) but in general, I'm not a fan. And the whole point I make this post, is to know why people like it in the first place?

The 3 main arguments (I'll get to 3rd one later) I have heard basically boil down to either preventing "chaos" and wanting people to be "careful" which, is not really fair, since even if you ARE careful, you can still die to bullshit, or something unavoidable, so at times it doesn't help. And preventing chaos, is not really that true since losing all of your items on you, and part of XP, prevents you from doing same things as before, at least immediately. Since you'll have to get your shit again, which is easier said than done.
However, another main argument, is that it makes you "want to be careful" and "care for your character" and so on, like your irl pet and such, so you don't lose them, or like someone loved who you don't want to die. But here is the problem with this logic... PEOPLE PLAY GAMES TO GET AWAY FROM REALITY. Like, seriously. People play games to escape from reality, or not focus on it as much, to relax and so on. And basically FORCING THEM to have to care about something FICTIONAL as if it's real, is in my opinion, just kind of cruel. There is a reason games that don't have PK are incredibly popular, or just better, but that's a different argument.

What I also don't understand is why it even exists? I mean... Other RPGs like Lord of the Rings Online, Fallout 76, Elder Scrolls Online etc. DO NOT have PK, so I don't understand why it even exists. Like what is the point? If the best RPGs (Fallout 1,2, NV, KOTOR 1 and 2) do not have it, then why even think about adding it? And yes, I know some people do Perma-Kill/Death runs in games, but that is ONLY for challenge. Not for the "immersion". Since, immersion doesn't come only from dying and losing everything, but also you know, the environment, music, design and so on. Basically, other things.

Now, when it comes to problems with PK, my personal ones at least, then there are a few, not really a number since I don't have a list on me, but basically, they are just things I hate about PK, that I think actively HURT the server.

- FORCING you into Passive RP - Now, you might be saying that PassiveRP is big part of HL2RP and yeah, that is true. But there is a difference between encouraging it. And FORCING you into it. And PK, definitely pushes you into it in a "forcing" way. Because, whenever I join the server, majority of people I see are folks that never have to take risks in order to survive (aside from 1), those being: Civil Protection (again, only one exception, but they have guns and authority, also literal gestapo), Loyalists (usually safe, can get stuff others don't, better rations), Shopkeepers and Workers (They work for their living with no risks, either in safe shops or working), and people who simply don't take risks. And, most of these, are passive RP based. Because, if doing ANYTHING risky, can cause you to lose everything, then what's the point of doing anything else? Like, it just feels counter-productive.

- Restricting player freedom - Might seem odd, but it kind of does that, even if not intentional. Dying means losing a character, and you CAN'T make them again, technically restricting freedom. You can't just go into 404 to find stuff, or such, since dying means losing everything, therefore it's too risky and usually not worth. AND DOING things that are in spirit of gmod (game you're playing) and freedom, are not allowed. You can't just build a little shack for the homeless. A stand with food, a shelter, nothing like that, since if CP is not happy about it, they will amputate on the spot which equals being deleted. Also, having a single character, which most people do, also is out of the question, since if you die as that character, they go down the sh*tter. Speaking of characters however...

- Causing people to leave and never return - This one is actually kind of known, but if you don't know about it, let me explain. Many people on the server BELIEVE IT OR NOT have only a SINGLE character that they stick to. And never make more. This is more common than you might think, and I don't know why it's done, in my opinion, it might be the "maxing out" aspect like in most games with levels where you have a single character you max out, and then move on to another. But it is also usually done, since having a single character to connect to, is much more interesting and it's like in real life you might be attached to your dog, cat, rat, boyfriend, girlfriend etc. So basically, people would be UPSET when they lose them. And from what I have talked with, with most people on the server I met, they said that if they would die, they would quit the server and never return. ONE OF THEM, had like 700 hours on one character, and when he died, he stopped playing for a month. Now, he has around 300-400 on the 2nd one, and told me if the ever dies again, he will just quit the server in general. So... It's not really a good way of keeping players, since most people, simply don't like that. A lot of people don't like that, but that's why they either play other servers, or only do passive, so take that as you will.

TL : DR - Why does PK exists, what's the appeal? + I have problems with it, that are not only "me" related but can hurt other people too. It's not perfect, it's kinda flawed actually.

I personally enjoy this feature since it adds realism and makes you really respect FEARRP, wich is something i've rarely seen broken in this server, and if it has been, it was by minges with their character lasting litteraly minutes.

This feature was a pain when i first got into contact with it, but i beleive it to be a really good mechanic. The only problem that i see with it is that CP's don't suffer it (They just get de-ranked), wich makes them go like fucking rambo's. But apart from that, i think it's a really cool feature.

If you feel bad about your character dying i recommend disconnecting from them, and realizing its a character and not yourself

 

[Banana]

A sense of satisfaction like no other.

Part of what makes serious RP believable is that most of the time when a character dies, they're actually dead. They don't reappear 5 minutes later ready to do it all over again. It adds weight and risk to your actions, and those around you too. When your character's friend sees you die, they'll likely mourn you, and it might fundamentally change the way their character acts. Maybe they'll become extra violent or bloodthirsty when they were previously a pacificist character. The death of your character can affect others in this way a simple NLR could never do. Mourning a dead character only to have them reappear 5 minutes later makes little sense.

Everyone's characters are part of a bigger story, and the death of those characters is essential to driving the story forward. It prevents the same characters from wandering around the city for 2 years straight because they can simply walk back every time someone gets pissed off enough to decide to kill them. Or a heroic sacrifice that ultimately amounts to nothing, because they can just come back like nothing happened away. Or a massive CP sweep resulting in countless of deaths from both sides, ultimately meaningless and affected nothing. CPs never lost their closest allies, rebels didn't lose long forged alliances. Everything stays the same.

To date, the best experience I've had in serious RP was barely surviving with a group of close-knit rebels in the outlands. We had to fight for our lives just to get enough food to survive for another day, and had to take the lives of other player characters in doing so. This experience was amazing because every situation meant life or death, and we were constantly risking it all. It was thrilling in a way that could have never been achieved if we could just respawn and try again if we failed.

 

[TheMouths]

Hello there gamers, and I offer you, a little (or not) post regarding PK. Which is both a question, but also my personal stance on it.

Now, if you have seen me in game, or in here, then you know that I am not the biggest fan of PK, maybe because I've never experienced it before (in any other game, or other Gmod RP servers, serious or semi) but in general, I'm not a fan. And the whole point I make this post, is to know why people like it in the first place?

The 3 main arguments (I'll get to 3rd one later) I have heard basically boil down to either preventing "chaos" and wanting people to be "careful" which, is not really fair, since even if you ARE careful, you can still die to bullshit, or something unavoidable, so at times it doesn't help. And preventing chaos, is not really that true since losing all of your items on you, and part of XP, prevents you from doing same things as before, at least immediately. Since you'll have to get your shit again, which is easier said than done.
However, another main argument, is that it makes you "want to be careful" and "care for your character" and so on, like your irl pet and such, so you don't lose them, or like someone loved who you don't want to die. But here is the problem with this logic... PEOPLE PLAY GAMES TO GET AWAY FROM REALITY. Like, seriously. People play games to escape from reality, or not focus on it as much, to relax and so on. And basically FORCING THEM to have to care about something FICTIONAL as if it's real, is in my opinion, just kind of cruel. There is a reason games that don't have PK are incredibly popular, or just better, but that's a different argument.

What I also don't understand is why it even exists? I mean... Other RPGs like Lord of the Rings Online, Fallout 76, Elder Scrolls Online etc. DO NOT have PK, so I don't understand why it even exists. Like what is the point? If the best RPGs (Fallout 1,2, NV, KOTOR 1 and 2) do not have it, then why even think about adding it? And yes, I know some people do Perma-Kill/Death runs in games, but that is ONLY for challenge. Not for the "immersion". Since, immersion doesn't come only from dying and losing everything, but also you know, the environment, music, design and so on. Basically, other things.

Now, when it comes to problems with PK, my personal ones at least, then there are a few, not really a number since I don't have a list on me, but basically, they are just things I hate about PK, that I think actively HURT the server.

- FORCING you into Passive RP - Now, you might be saying that PassiveRP is big part of HL2RP and yeah, that is true. But there is a difference between encouraging it. And FORCING you into it. And PK, definitely pushes you into it in a "forcing" way. Because, whenever I join the server, majority of people I see are folks that never have to take risks in order to survive (aside from 1), those being: Civil Protection (again, only one exception, but they have guns and authority, also literal gestapo), Loyalists (usually safe, can get stuff others don't, better rations), Shopkeepers and Workers (They work for their living with no risks, either in safe shops or working), and people who simply don't take risks. And, most of these, are passive RP based. Because, if doing ANYTHING risky, can cause you to lose everything, then what's the point of doing anything else? Like, it just feels counter-productive.

- Restricting player freedom - Might seem odd, but it kind of does that, even if not intentional. Dying means losing a character, and you CAN'T make them again, technically restricting freedom. You can't just go into 404 to find stuff, or such, since dying means losing everything, therefore it's too risky and usually not worth. AND DOING things that are in spirit of gmod (game you're playing) and freedom, are not allowed. You can't just build a little shack for the homeless. A stand with food, a shelter, nothing like that, since if CP is not happy about it, they will amputate on the spot which equals being deleted. Also, having a single character, which most people do, also is out of the question, since if you die as that character, they go down the sh*tter. Speaking of characters however...

- Causing people to leave and never return - This one is actually kind of known, but if you don't know about it, let me explain. Many people on the server BELIEVE IT OR NOT have only a SINGLE character that they stick to. And never make more. This is more common than you might think, and I don't know why it's done, in my opinion, it might be the "maxing out" aspect like in most games with levels where you have a single character you max out, and then move on to another. But it is also usually done, since having a single character to connect to, is much more interesting and it's like in real life you might be attached to your dog, cat, rat, boyfriend, girlfriend etc. So basically, people would be UPSET when they lose them. And from what I have talked with, with most people on the server I met, they said that if they would die, they would quit the server and never return. ONE OF THEM, had like 700 hours on one character, and when he died, he stopped playing for a month. Now, he has around 300-400 on the 2nd one, and told me if the ever dies again, he will just quit the server in general. So... It's not really a good way of keeping players, since most people, simply don't like that. A lot of people don't like that, but that's why they either play other servers, or only do passive, so take that as you will.

TL : DR - Why does PK exists, what's the appeal? + I have problems with it, that are not only "me" related but can hurt other people too. It's not perfect, it's kinda flawed actually.

The only thing that's annoying about PK is when you are completely cornered and nothing you can do will allow your character to survive and then unfortunately you die and cannot do anything about it because the odds were stacked against you, now, unfortunately, that's one of the big reasons why taking the initiative to attempt to make something big on the server never happens and that might be because the pace of the server can be painfully slow when you aren't in a group or one that is completely inactive which usually forces you to make connections but sometimes even this isn't enough and that causes you to die but remember that if your character goes against the Combine in any way shape or form then you better have already come out with a completely full-proof plan otherwise no matter what you do at the end you'll lose which is why everything seems to slow and the server looks monotone but unfortunately that is the flaw of every single HL2RP servers... Except for Russians server because they seriously passioned there

 

[Ruairidh]

Its pixels bro

 

[TheMouths]

Its pixels bro

You usually wanna make a character that you actually care about otherwise there is no point in playing in a serious-rp server

 

[Pazzcacha]

Like, seriously. People play games to escape from reality, or not focus on it as much, to relax and so on. And basically FORCING THEM to have to care about something FICTIONAL as if it's real

From my point of view, WN is a serious Half-Life 2 Role-playing server, and the management as well as many people who play try to keep it as realistic as possible, because we are not a DarkRP server, nor Impulse, that's the whole point of roleplay, to be accurate. Another thing I want to point out is that knowing your character will be lost as of its death makes people want to take care of it more because they put effort into making the character's lore, and even description sometimes.

Causing people to leave and never return - This one is actually kind of known, but if you don't know about it, let me explain. Many people on the server BELIEVE IT OR NOT have only a SINGLE character that they stick to

I had a much-loved character that died due to its altercations with anti-citizens, and I had it for a long time believe me, but I moved on. People who refuse to play because their character was PK'ed are childish or haven't played enough HL2RP to come to terms with the idea of irrevocably losing their character.

A stand with food, a shelter, nothing like that, since if CP is not happy about it, they will amputate on the spot which equals being deleted. Also, having a single character, which most people do, also is out of the question, since if you die as that character, they go down the sh*tter.

The last thing I want to talk about is this. CPs (if you didn't know) have a set of guidelines that specifically tells them what to do and what to not do. Random amputations have consequences in many cases and we also have PK appeals if you think your PK was not motivated right. What I am telling you now is basic stuff about Civil Protection. About "most people have a single character and stick to it" is a wrong argument, and I feel everyone should put equal effort into making different characters.

In short, having more experience with the server and general HL2 Roleplay will improve how you feel about PK's and you will come to the understanding it is a thing that happens to everyone. Some characters last hours, days, and weeks, and some characters last months. It falls on you whether you allow your character to get in trouble or not. And believe me, random PK's are not a thing, even if the reason is absurd, staff will look into it if you care enough about your character to make a PK appeal.

 

[Rabid]

PK's give a sense of consequence and weight to actions.

On most of the other games you listed you're not roleplaying with 40-60 other people at once and the 'world' is only as dynamic as you make it with the specific people you are roleplaying with, if you even decide to go down that route to begin with. Otherwise you are basically playing a single-player game but online. If you and another character have reason to attack and kill eachother in an RP context the nature of those games forces you to talk it out and work to a satisfying conclusion.

In servers like this with so many moving parts, that isn't possible and it gets incredibly dull without consequence. If someone blows up a character and they pop back into being the next day unharmed it very quickly becomes stale. Nothing can advance, nothing can change.

tl;dr: You cannot fairly compare an opt-in RP community in an MMO to a server built around RP that puts you in a direct "us vs them" situation IC.

 

[TheGoodHunter]

imagine some guy burns down an entire shop, murders several CPs and commits the most heinous crimes in the entire city and being labeled as a domestic terrorist

you think the combine are just gonna incarcerate this dude for life? simple solution; kill that mf

 

[Rebel RP Philosopher]

I agree with this post to the fullest of extents. If you disagree, you're living a virtual life and are stuck wanting to keep it that way until you are victim.

 

[TheGoodHunter]

I agree with this post to the fullest of extents. If you disagree, you're living a virtual life and are stuck wanting to keep it that way until you are victim.

this post makes my balls itch

 

[RogueSynapse]

Without PKs, it would be a darkrp server with no mics enabled.

 

[Hayden]

I agree somewhat, PKs have a use like everyone has said- someone dying in a well roleplayed situation where their background and character is entirely relevant can't just come back a few days later otherwise it'd mess with immersion and realism.

But I do in all honesty dislike the current PK rules, primarily because of how all encompassing they are. To my understanding, if you die and someone's witnessed it, regardless if it could've been any random character replaced by a nobody for NLR, it's a PK. Which makes even existing risky sometimes, anyone can assume you're a loyalist/rebel based on vague information and act on it, or just mug and kill you and that's a PK.

But I don't really expect anything to change because it seems the majority are okay with these new rules, so I'll just live with it.

 

[Bounter]

PK's give a sense of consequence and weight to actions.

On most of the other games you listed you're not roleplaying with 40-60 other people at once and the 'world' is only as dynamic as you make it with the specific people you are roleplaying with, if you even decide to go down that route to begin with. Otherwise you are basically playing a single-player game but online. If you and another character have reason to attack and kill eachother in an RP context the nature of those games forces you to talk it out and work to a satisfying conclusion.

In servers like this with so many moving parts, that isn't possible and it gets incredibly dull without consequence. If someone blows up a character and they pop back into being the next day unharmed it very quickly becomes stale. Nothing can advance, nothing can change.

tl;dr: You cannot fairly compare an opt-in RP community in an MMO to a server built around RP that puts you in a direct "us vs them" situation IC.

You act like losing all of your items, which you spent time on either crafting/trading/buying/grinding is "nothing". Which trust me, it isn't. Spending hours/days getting stuff just to lose it in moments is gut punch.

Most people do not care if a character "comes back" from death. This might be the first time people actually get angry at this fact lmfao.