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The Great Rebel Economy Rework

The only major thing I have to say on this is that it should only allow crafting of T1 kevlar and pipe weapons. Otherwise these should come from BMDs to an extent and primarily expeditions and other RP scenarios.

We should not encourage rebels to get the high-tier equipment by sitting in trash piles in the sewers.
 
The only major thing I have to say on this is that it should only allow crafting of T1 kevlar and pipe weapons. Otherwise these should come from BMDs to an extent and primarily expeditions and other RP scenarios.

We should not encourage rebels to get the high-tier equipment by sitting in trash piles in the sewers.
Yeah, but that would also require a way to acquire chips that wasn't locked behind high level smuggling. Operations where you can earn chips or weapons are extremely sparse and there is no guarantee you can make it to them. Pipe weapons are borderline garbage, and while it's logical that they would be the only ones you can produce, you can also make grenades, flashbangs, flares. Generally restricting weaponry to only pipe weapons would ONLY be good if opportunities for RP relating to gear acquisition were even somewhat frequent, which they are most certainly not.
 
Before I list some of the things, I want to say that I point out both things that I agree upon and things that I do not agree with and then don't talk about things that I don't care enough to be talked about:


1-Tinker Bench for electronics has no use because electronics as it currently stands has 0 use whatsoever except for handheld radios and that's if people craft it instead of buying it from the BMD in the first place, even the EMP is useless since it is better to just blow up stuff with nades than use it.


If CPs see you using a crafting station to make contraband, they may take it. If the crafting station is in a public space but nobody ever keeps an eye on it that's an IC issue.
Also anyone can just steal them considering they aren't protected under raid rules in public spaces afaik.
2-If people are gonna be able to remove and steal workbenches then there's no point in making an "ammo workbench" because only Civil Protection or just minges would even attempt to do those things and that will just make it annoying. I don't believe that both things are even necessary in the first place because stealing workbench is now useless since they are so common except for minges and loyalists to be a bother for the sake of SC farming or being a dick and the fact that some people dislike rebels OOC'ly so very much that they would go to that extent.

From what I've seen there is plenty of progression to crafting levels. Higher level crafting unlocks better recipes. Such as higher tier crafting components, higher tier weapons, explosives at a certain point. There is a definite progression system.
Smuggling has more weird aspects to it, but in general even there higher level smuggling means ability to smuggler higher tier items.

3-Crafting has lost quite literally all value due to BMDs, yes there is quite a large amount of things you can craft but there's no use to craft them EXCEPT to sell them back to the ADMIN BMDs for chips. The only things that are worth putting levels in crafting is ammo, armor plating, toolkit, and scraps because those things are incredibly cheap, if you require guns, armor or any type of equipment then you can just ask a BMD and you're already in the end-game, especially since you require a large amount of storage to craft while you can just use your slum public stash to put your chips safely and then wait for a BMD to make his appearance and buy gear from him.

4-Farming trash is tedious, yes. No matter how you see it, it is an extremely TEDIOUS REPEATABLE action that will just burn out players until they realize that there's no point in farming trash except to sell the scraps to the smuggler and make enough chips to buy equipment from BMDs instead of having to make two small containers to then make a medium container to then only stockpile on scraps and be able to make firearms and armor that are of a lower quality than that of Civil Protections especially since the QRF and the Grunts exist.

5-Yes smuggling is actually worthless and the sole reason for it's existence is making chip out of it. If you actually genuinely believe that it is worth it to get level 42 smuggling only to be able to buy an Handheld radio or level 40 to buy a gasmask or a mixer then I believe you require a reality check.

The only major thing I have to say on this is that it should only allow crafting of T1 kevlar and pipe weapons. Otherwise these should come from BMDs to an extent and primarily expeditions and other RP scenarios.

We should not encourage rebels to get the high-tier equipment by sitting in trash piles in the sewers.
6- Kappatalist being a crazy bastard by saying that Rebels should only be able to craft T-1 Kevlar and Pipe Weapons, allowing only BMDs to give any other type of gear. The worst part is that I believe that he is being unironic even though nobody even crafts weapons in the first place because they know that a UZI and T-1 armor rebel will never win against 1 CP with an MP7 that is if CPs can manage to even 1V1 rebels in the first place. Now I hope that Civil Protections mains aren't gonna start slandering me and insulting me!

Unfortunately, if you wanna make rebels stop sitting on top of trash piles in the sewers to get chips and good gear then you'll have to find a way to rework the entire rebel system yourself.

Ammo, grenades, people underestimate the value of 6 rebels armed with pistols compared to 1 rebel with an M4. Plenty of decent stuff can be gained through crafting. I've really only seen BMD buying useful if you really needed something not in crafting, which really aren't even that many items.
7- Asimo, unfortunately, overestimate the Combat System and Weapon/Armor system of the server because unfortunately, 1 rebel with an M4A1 is weaker to 6 armed rebels only if both of the sides wear absolutely 0 armor! Yes because due to pistols only dealing 10% armor pen, they hold 0 value when fighting against armored people which is also the reason why CPs are freely issued in the first place, the fact that they are there more to destroy very small under-geared rebels forces or random civilians than fighting an entirely decked-out rebel platoon!
As a personal experience of mine fighting against 5 CPs+ with pistols and 2 CPs with MP7s as a solo T-3 AK-74 rebel, I can safely assure you that they didn't put my armor below 50 armor and instead 57 when all of them were shooting at me! Why? Not because CPs are trash but simply because Pistols are worthless which allowed me to escape before I got completely surrounded.

8- Yes there is a loophole but unfortunately for rebels, it only benefits them by a little. What I mean by that, the possible 100K+ chips whether it is true or not is not done by the same player, which means it doesn't actually matter unless they were all regrouped by a single player.

9- People unfortunately very much overestimate medical, getting +6 hp every 5-10 secs for getting medical level 50 is very underwhelming in the middle of a S2K fight
 
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The amount of workbenches being suggested to be added is gonna cause space issues.
You're certainly not going to fit all that in one base
 
The amount of workbenches being suggested to be added is gonna cause space issues.
You're certainly not going to fit all that in one base
Feature and intended. Maybe you can work together with other rebel groups or something.
 
Feature and intended. Maybe you can work together with other rebel groups or something.
Doesn't really make sense to need that many tables.. i didn't know this was minecraft really... IRL you only need litteraly a single one.. I can accept two or three for extra stuff (The chemestry one, the mixer, and the crafting workbenches make sense, but apart from that, it's just stupid..)

You are litteraly making a table to putting powder into a fucking metalic bullet and closing it. That can litteraly be done anywhere, doesn't even require any special tools.
 
Also all higher tier benches count for the lower tiers to make life easier (just granting that QOL). In the end, your crafting + metal bench would be replaced by one bench. Mixer wouldn't be needed with a refinery. The furnace for metal isn't that big (think the size of a barrel). That adds 2 extra benches for ammo/electronics - I think you can survive without electronics bench if you only have small base. And the ammo bench's physbox is a lot smaller than the crafting bench's idiot physbox.

I don't see this as a particularly big issue.
 
Also all higher tier benches count for the lower tiers to make life easier (just granting that QOL). In the end, your crafting + metal bench would be replaced by one bench. Mixer wouldn't be needed with a refinery. The furnace for metal isn't that big (think the size of a barrel). That adds 2 extra benches for ammo/electronics - I think you can survive without electronics bench if you only have small base. And the ammo bench's physbox is a lot smaller than the crafting bench's idiot physbox.

I don't see this as a particularly big issue.
Minecraft 2.0
 
Doesn't really make sense to need that many tables.. i didn't know this was minecraft really... IRL you only need litteraly a single one.. I can accept two or three for extra stuff (The chemestry one, the mixer, and the crafting workbenches make sense, but apart from that, it's just stupid..)

You are litteraly making a table to putting powder into a fucking metalic bullet and closing it. That can litteraly be done anywhere, doesn't even require any special tools.
Actually, it does require special tools. Sealing the bullet casing requires a specialized press.
 
Also all higher tier benches count for the lower tiers to make life easier (just granting that QOL). In the end, your crafting + metal bench would be replaced by one bench. Mixer wouldn't be needed with a refinery. The furnace for metal isn't that big (think the size of a barrel). That adds 2 extra benches for ammo/electronics - I think you can survive without electronics bench if you only have small base. And the ammo bench's physbox is a lot smaller than the crafting bench's idiot physbox.

I don't see this as a particularly big issue.
Does this imply that the refinery isn't going to permanently be expedition exclusive?
 
Like you can litteraly make grenades that work just as you intend them to work instead of exploding in your hand, but you can't make an ak?
Grenades arent really too hard to make comparing a grenade to an AK is a bit too far of a stretch
 
Grenades arent really too hard to make comparing a grenade to an AK is a bit too far of a stretch
Grenades are harder to make than an ak IRL. Making a grenade that is reliable and doesn't just explode instantly is hard. Making an ak is just litteraly sticking shit together, and if you don't have all that's required you can litteraly print it yourself or make it out of pipes and shit.
 
Grenades are harder to make than an ak IRL. Making a grenade that is reliable and doesn't just explode instantly is hard. Making an ak is just litteraly sticking shit together, and if you don't have all that's required you can litteraly print it yourself or make it out of pipes and shit.
Grenades dont need exact measurements, they just need some sort of explosive and a fuse etc etc However for an effective AK74 you need to firstly know the required sizes for a reciever, gastube, barrel, bolt etc. You then need to make said parts and they need to be EXACT for your AK to work well and then you need to put it together correctly.
 
7- Asimo, unfortunately, overestimate the Combat System and Weapon/Armor system of the server because unfortunately, 1 rebel with an M4A1 is weaker to 6 armed rebels only if both of the sides wear absolutely 0 armor! Yes because due to pistols only dealing 10% armor pen, they hold 0 value when fighting against armored people
Makarov 9 damage 4 shots per ap.
Ok let's say you never score a critical hit (The only system armor pen ties into)
4.5 (Rounded to 5) damage per hit. 5 x 8 per turn. Times 6 people. 240 damage total.

M4 21 damage 4 shots per ap
Let's say you only score critical hits.
21 x 8 = 168 damage total.

I'd much rather have 6 people doing 240 damage per turn AT WORST with a total health pool of 600 than a rebel with an m4 doing 170 damage a turn AT BEST who only has 200 health (100 hp + 100 armor).

And before you try saying this is now how the system works:
I have been testing this godforsaken combat system for the past 11 months on actual players. This IS how it works.
Any oddities during actual combat in the server is the result of severe skill issue not being able to hit the chest or head of someone.
 
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