Stabilization whilst Wounded.

[ShadoWiz4rd]

For too long it's been if you were shot you either would die from being double tapped or you would bleed to death. I think it should be possible to stabilize yourself whilst downed I.E If you have medical supplies such as bandages and pain killers or a first-aid kit you should be able to stop the bleeding but need to be treated with superior medical equipment. I.E A first aid kit/Morphine/Med-kit. along with proper Med rp. Instead of having to rely on the small small chance that someone is going to run over and risk getting shot while putting a med script on you. Maybe there could be a way via pressing E that gives the option to bandage a downed person if you have one in your inventory.


This would be invaluable and give people downed more of a fighting chance, Give a chance for people to take prisoners. It would also make sense for Civil Protection and MAA Especially to be able to do this. And Rebels to a lesser extent instead of getting shot in the foot with an SMG and then instantly bleeding out until some edge-lord comes over you and mag dumps your body.

 

[vilhjalmrf]

No. I don't believe many will follow up with med rp and being put into bleedout is mercy enough in my opinion. It'll also be less hectic considering how fucky it already is.

 

[Belgg]

For too long it's been if you were shot you either would die from being double tapped or you would bleed to death. I think it should be possible to stabilize yourself whilst downed I.E If you have medical supplies such as bandages and pain killers or a first-aid kit you should be able to stop the bleeding but need to be treated with superior medical equipment. I.E A first aid kit/Morphine/Med-kit. along with proper Med rp. Instead of having to rely on the small small chance that someone is going to run over and risk getting shot while putting a med script on you. Maybe there could be a way via pressing E that gives the option to bandage a downed person if you have one in your inventory.


This would be invaluable and give people downed more of a fighting chance, Give a chance for people to take prisoners. It would also make sense for Civil Protection and MAA Especially to be able to do this. And Rebels to a lesser extent instead of getting shot in the foot with an SMG and then instantly bleeding out until some edge-lord comes over you and mag dumps your body.

Yeah right? Becouse when you get shot 10 times with an ak it would be very realistic to heal your own wounds... I really don't know why they didn't add this feature yet. Maybe we should test it to prove its realism, you up for it?

 

[The Milkman]

I think a longer amount of time before you can be brought back up would be good or something like you can’t get back up until the fight is over, because the reason most people simply double tap and PK someone is for fear that they’ll get back up and start shooting again in a minute

 

[Hayden]

Having it so when you're downed you can self heal with certain items, but need to be treat by someone else all the way to full HP within 10 minutes (maybe longer, with a delay for TBC) could work. If they're not fixed up within those 10 minutes, they go into bleedout again until they're healed to full by someone.

Forces people to medRP (or at the very least get medicated every few minutes for awhile), maybe the final bleedout after the 'second wind' could be cardiac arrest instead, and need someone with a defib script or a high medical skill to bring back.

Definitely could be refined but I think it's a option, idk

 

[Ruairidh]

Yeah right? Becouse when you get shot 10 times with an ak it would be very realistic to heal your own wounds... I really don't know why they didn't add this feature yet. Maybe we should test it to prove its realism, you up for it?

Well yeah it depends actually, people dont have health bars meaning they can tank alot of shots depending on their physical and mental strength adrenalin too

 

[Belgg]

Well yeah it depends actually, people dont have health bars meaning they can tank alot of shots depending on their physical and mental strength adrenalin too

If you are under tons of fucking adrenalin, still you wouldn't stop to heal your wounds, and in the moment you would, probably a few minutes after, the adrenalin would stop being produced and therfore cause you to get unconscious or just fucking die of a hearth attack, To be able to heal yourself after being shot to the point of being on the fucking ground dying is just unthinkable, and as i said, it would need a fucking ammount of adrenalin that would cause you a hearth attack. It is just impossible, and unrealistic to allow that to happen for everyone.
If it were to happen, it's a 0.00-1% chance, therefore making it a feature is just stupid.

Also, i can assure you people tank less shots than they do in the fucking server. With 1 shot of an ak to any part of your body you're already fucked, no matter what bodyarmor you use, that's a fucking broken rib, or other kind of grave wound(Getting shot in any arm or leg would cause you to bleed out, and completely disable you from shooting, unless it's the leg, in that case it would just inmobilize you or kill you on the spot, i'm not even gonna mention headshots or stomach shots, becouse i think it's pretty obvious what would happen) that would incapacitate you from combat (Unless you are under adrenalin, wich would cause you to keep fighting until the effects are over).

 

[Belgg]

Having it so when you're downed you can self heal with certain items, but need to be treat by someone else all the way to full HP within 10 minutes (maybe longer, with a delay for TBC) could work. If they're not fixed up within those 10 minutes, they go into bleedout again until they're healed to full by someone.

Forces people to medRP (or at the very least get medicated every few minutes for awhile), maybe the final bleedout after the 'second wind' could be cardiac arrest instead, and need someone with a defib script or a high medical skill to bring back.

Definitely could be refined but I think it's a option, idk

You are just trying to save your idea, but that's simply stupid and will encourage people to double tap even more, so what you are suggesting is that someone can litteraly just heal themselves and run away from whatever place they were in (Litteraly 5 minutes are enough to go from one end to the map to the other) and go back to safety, well that's just stupid, you don't just go from fucking dying to getting saved becouse you "Medrp'd".
Realism


Edit: (You aren't "trying to save your idea", i just realized isn't yours, so just ignore that first part )

 

[Vulpes Callida]

I think an easier way to handle this is just to have bleedout not work with an OOC timer during TBC, rather a 'death save' system per turn. Heard a lot of complaints about bleedout being fucky like willum said, but also of not having enough time to get to someone in bigger TBC battles.

It'd be like DND, downed person maintains initiative instead of being 'ejected' from TBC, but their turn consists in an auto-roll. Failing the roll puts you one death save down, up to a maximum of 3, where you die.

As gamey as it is, I think it's still infinitely more realistic than performing near self surgery like others have said. See it more as a 'force of will to stay alive' mechanic. Not even the most badass of mega battle surgeons would know how to self-stabilize their own wound in the heat of combat, beyond holding something against it so it doesn't bleed too much. It's just too painful and incapacitating. Even with morphine. There's a reason you're put to deep slumber during surgery, and not just given one tablet of paracetamol and told to hold your breath.
(speaking about serious injuries that'd put you in a downed state)

A natural 20 on these rolls could get you up on a singular hp again. A natural 1 could mean the loss of not one death save, but two.

Inventories are accessable while you're in bleedout, so, so long you have meds on ya, someone else can get you up. I just kinda wish TBC's timer was longer than 6 seconds, it's kind of lame. Should be 30 or so to at least allow a degree of interaction.

(And a hotkey to skip turn!)

IMO, the bleedout timer is fine in S2K and S2K alone.

 

[Serhan]

This would be invaluable and give people downed more of a fighting chance

This is the exact reason why this should not be a thing. We're not Hank Schrader

 

[Vulpes Callida]

Addendum and hot take:

Meds shouldn't be able to be used mid combat unless you're downed. Should wait until the fight breaks off, put a cooldown on it. So many people hoard and spam meds like it's Christmas, making them into some kind of hyperjockeyed superman able to soak 102 different gunshots while not moving from the same windowstill. Maybe exempt from this, bandages and injectables... But we also kind of need a limit on that.

 

[Serhan]

Speaking of which, I would like to turn this post around its head and advocate for an overhaul in the medical system:



> All medical item’s healing rates should be reduced drastically to actively discourage players from continuing combat when wounded; or better yet, getting hurt at all.

> Only items such as morphine and adrenaline must have rapid/instant healing effect (which they already do, more on that here) but what I mean is that most items should only take effect after the script has been applied, similar to the attribute system boosted by the scripts.

> For moderate to light wounds, bandages are a solution. For anything beyond critical, cap the maximum allowed HP until a surgical kit, first aid kit or a medigel is applied so that the players are actively discouraged from spamming makeshift bandage rolls on their near-terminal wounds. This is utter nonsense, go see a fucking doctor.

> Speaking of which, make the surgical and first aid kits less accessible. This would be good to discourage players from not going to the clinic/getting treatment by a rebel doctor etc.



I genuinely did not want to write any of this, but if you’re getting shot on 5 different locations and try to bandage yourself mid-gunfight, wait 30 seconds or so and then storm an enemy position like you’ve just swallowed the vitamin gummies on top of our refrigerator, go play semi-serious RP at this point.

 

[Vulpes Callida]

[NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH]

please listen to this man.

To add, same with the whole "taking my armor off to repair it mid combat". I've seen CPs run around a corner to 'repair' in a nearby checkpoint or locked room, and I've seen rebels do it exactly on the fucking spot, both to then return to glorious battle.

Like wtf is this? Call of Duty Warzone? Why is it possible? Cap it to outside combat only. And roleplay your injuries please

 

[Blitz]

(And a hotkey to skip turn!)

There is a hotkey - shift + f3

 

[Gr4Ss]

Speaking of which, I would like to turn this post around its head and advocate for an overhaul in the medical system:



> All medical item’s healing rates should be reduced drastically to actively discourage players from continuing combat when wounded; or better yet, getting hurt at all.

> Only items such as morphine and adrenaline must have rapid/instant healing effect (which they already do, more on that here) but what I mean is that most items should only take effect after the script has been applied, similar to the attribute system boosted by the scripts.

> For moderate to light wounds, bandages are a solution. For anything beyond critical, cap the maximum allowed HP until a surgical kit, first aid kit or a medigel is applied so that the players are actively discouraged from spamming makeshift bandage rolls on their near-terminal wounds. This is utter nonsense, go see a fucking doctor.

> Speaking of which, make the surgical and first aid kits less accessible. This would be good to discourage players from not going to the clinic/getting treatment by a rebel doctor etc.



I genuinely did not want to write any of this, but if you’re getting shot on 5 different locations and try to bandage yourself mid-gunfight, wait 30 seconds or so and then storm an enemy position like you’ve just swallowed the vitamin gummies on top of our refrigerator, go play semi-serious RP at this point.

You know, having watched some combat, I am actually inclined to agree here with the healing speed. This is just a config in-game though so easy to change.

Everything else would require somewhat of a rework. And there's some good ideas here (limiting what bandages can be used for, or re-adding minimum level requirements on some medical items) as well as some other ideas I had (capping how much painkillers you can take, and lowering the total amount of painkillers you can survive on).

please listen to this man.

To add, same with the whole "taking my armor off to repair it mid combat". I've seen CPs run around a corner to 'repair' in a nearby checkpoint or locked room, and I've seen rebels do it exactly on the fucking spot, both to then return to glorious battle.

Like wtf is this? Call of Duty Warzone? Why is it possible? Cap it to outside combat only. And roleplay your injuries please

You know, I honestly thought we still had a rule against this until I saw someone do it. Kind of stupid, and tempted to just make it take forever/increasing the size of the repair plating/making them single use.

Inventories are accessable while you're in bleedout, so, so long you have meds on ya, someone else can get you up. I just kinda wish TBC's timer was longer than 6 seconds, it's kind of lame. Should be 30 or so to at least allow a degree of interaction.

Imagine how long a fight would take with only a few people involved if one person doesn't skip turn until it times out (which I imagine some people doing just to give their friends more time to show up and/or to piss everyone else off).

 

[Ruairidh]

If you are under tons of fucking adrenalin, still you wouldn't stop to heal your wounds, and in the moment you would, probably a few minutes after, the adrenalin would stop being produced and therfore cause you to get unconscious or just fucking die of a hearth attack, To be able to heal yourself after being shot to the point of being on the fucking ground dying is just unthinkable, and as i said, it would need a fucking ammount of adrenalin that would cause you a hearth attack. It is just impossible, and unrealistic to allow that to happen for everyone.
If it were to happen, it's a 0.00-1% chance, therefore making it a feature is just stupid.

Also, i can assure you people tank less shots than they do in the fucking server. With 1 shot of an ak to any part of your body you're already fucked, no matter what bodyarmor you use, that's a fucking broken rib, or other kind of grave wound(Getting shot in any arm or leg would cause you to bleed out, and completely disable you from shooting, unless it's the leg, in that case it would just inmobilize you or kill you on the spot, i'm not even gonna mention headshots or stomach shots, becouse i think it's pretty obvious what would happen) that would incapacitate you from combat (Unless you are under adrenalin, wich would cause you to keep fighting until the effects are over).

Firstly, Adrenalin cannot cause a heart attack, you would have to have prior damage to the heart or a condition with your heart.
Secondly, applying shit after being shot up while under the effects of adrenalin or after the effects of adrenalin isnt too crazy? People have done it, police do it (albeit not riddled with bullets) daily.
Thirdly, I feel popping a few painkillers isnt too bad as you can still talk in bleed out and personally I feel this shouldnt be an end all and that once the pills run out you return to bleedout
Fourthly, Its a little more realistic than you think, if I could I would link some source videos (not all as there are too fucking man) so you can see the people who get shot 10 maybe even 20 times and still manage to walk off. The human body is a marvel as it can either take no beating at all or it can take a heffy beating

---------------------------------------------

Firstly, the AK is strong however you are glossing over many factors (The bullet used, the bullet wound, shock, etc.) you wouldnt be fucked off the bat as there are things that can combat most of the injuries you listed. The broken rib wouldnt really do much and more than likely wouldnt happen, it would more likely crack your rib and I'm basing this off of kevlar and not the clearly metal plates that you slot into your vest, do remember that the plates you use are a weird type of steel? Possibly something else tho idk lol, for the major bleeds, all you would really need to do is pop a tourni or tie literally anything just above the bleed.
Secondly, you are right about a stomach shot/ Headshot, however for the stomach shot its a gamble as you need to actually hit vital organs.

 

[Neonity]

You know, I honestly thought we still had a rule against this until I saw someone do it. Kind of stupid, and tempted to just make it take forever/increasing the size of the repair plating/making them single use.

We do have a rule specifically against this.

 

[Vulpes Callida]

Ok I'm sorry I don't mean to be toxic I love you Ruairidh but this is exactly what Serhan was talking about. I don't expect a master's degree in Medicine but Hollywood has done a lot of damage and ngl your first sentence pissed me off as you were very confident about being wrong.

(still love you tho)

Firstly, Adrenalin cannot cause a heart attack, you would have to have prior damage to the heart or a condition with your heart.

Firstly, this is medically false. Adrenaline/Epinephrine contributes to vasoconstriction and heart rate, meaning blood pressure is greatly increased from both the increase of resistance and the force and frequency of ejection (see: "Ejection fraction" in medicine). It is what is called a "vasoactive" drug that works very strongly in very little doses (Epinephrine is what 'imitates' natural adrenaline, I will be using these words interchangeably, as I will be referring to the medication only)

And the coronaries (the arteries of the heart) are very, very sensible to these kinds of stresses.

One could argue there is a physical limit to the adrenergic receptors in your vases which is true, but the constant stimulation of those vases is what might lead to the problem: An excessive amount of adrenaline can and will cause coronary collapse leading to infarction, or severe arrhytmia due to unstable heart rate (namely EKG rhythms such as ventricular or auricial tachycardias), especially if artificially injected. In fact, it's not rare for people to experience considerable heart/chest pains on the use of the dreaded epipens (angina pectoris) similar to the pains you'd get during a "heart attack." - and there are cases of IV epinephrine/adrenaline abuse that resulted in death, even in heavily controlled environments such as the ICU, with perfusions.

Do not mistake the fact adrenaline is used in certain cases of cardiac arrest to embetter blood flow with it being unable to cause one. This is due to the properties described above: when the heart's too weak or too erratic to ensure this blood flow, it comes into play. But if it's already pumping properly, it can be bad.

Also, mythbust, there is no such thing as the inhibition of pain due to anything related to adrenaline. That's just Hollywood movie shenanigans.

Secondly, applying shit after being shot up while under the effects of adrenalin or after the effects of adrenalin isnt too crazy? People have done it, police do it

Secondly, epinephrin application is heavily restricted (at least in every first world country) for medical reasons that require it, namely vascular ones where there is a grave affection of the heart. Noone, and I mean noone, self injects adrenaline before going into a raid. In fact, it is heavily forbidden as it is a serious health risk for the reasons I stated above. People don't do it. Police don't do it.

Meaning that if you get shot and you're already "under the effects of it" - you did something wrong, as no sane person would "preemptively inject themselves with it". And if you mean under NATURAL adrenaline, yeah -- no way. Our body does not suddenly become operable when it's damaged. Actually the opposite.

To follow this up, injecting adrenaline in a person who is bleeding is a TERRIBLE idea. Unless he's going into certain types of cardiac arrest due to blood loss already, DON'T DO IT. They will just bleed out (X) times faster.

Thirdly, I feel popping a few painkillers isnt too bad as you can still talk in bleed out and personally I feel this shouldnt be an end all and that once the pills run out you return to bleedout

Thirdly, your digestive system takes about 1-2h to process the pill you just swallowed and for your liver to activate it just like it does with your food. That's why it takes a while for your paracetamol to kick in and drag away the headache and fever from your cold. Unless you're referring to IV, IM or SC (if those latter even exist) painkillers, that is a different world.

Fourthly, Its a little more realistic than you think, if I could I would link some source videos (not all as there are too fucking man) so you can see the people who get shot 10 maybe even 20 times and still manage to walk off. The human body is a marvel as it can either take no beating at all or it can take a heffy beating

This is not due to adrenaline, but due to the fact the damage a bullet does takes several minutes to really start causing organc failure from the blood loss or affected structure, and other metabolic processes. The pain is the same, comes within a minute or so, especially if nerves are struck. Again, Hollywood has sold us on the fact "damage" is as instant as "relief" from medication. This is not true. They walk off until they drop half an hour later completely dead without any hope of recovery. Think of it as a series of systems that start slowly failing until catastrophe (shock) is reached.

That said, a good shot to the lungs or chest and you're out.

Firstly, the AK is strong however you are glossing over many factors (The bullet used, the bullet wound, shock, etc.) you wouldnt be fucked off the bat as there are things that can combat most of the injuries you listed. The broken rib wouldnt really do much and more than likely wouldnt happen, it would more likely crack your rib and I'm basing this off of kevlar and not the clearly metal plates that you slot into your vest, do remember that the plates you use are a weird type of steel? Possibly something else tho idk lol, for the major bleeds, all you would really need to do is pop a tourni or tie literally anything just above the bleed.
Secondly, you are right about a stomach shot/ Headshot, however for the stomach shot its a gamble as you need to actually hit vital organs.

I am a nurse, not a gun nut, but 7.62 and its subtypes has been known to tear limbs apart and make holes as big as 5 to 6 cm in diameter on a person's flesh.

Also, for the love of god. The "stomach" (what you call the intestines) are one of the highest rate mortality GSW types across history entirely, as not only do they bleed more profusely than other organs, save the spleen, liver or the heart itself, but they also make it so very toxic substances and bacteria that circulate in our digestive tract merge with the normal bloodstream. If the bullet doesn't kill you, septic shock will in a few hours, or days. THEYRE A VITAL ORGAN. You cannot subsist without nutrition.

thanks for coming to my ted talk

addendum: addictions also exist

addendum 2: u can't tourniquet A CHEST or a STOMACH

addendum 3: TOURNIQUETS ALSO IMPEDE LIMB FUNCTION

addendum 4: my brother in christ BROKEN RIBS (especially those caused by kinetic/ballistic damage) ARE DANGEROUS

addendum 5: the liver, spleen and kidneys also exist in the abdominal region, and a hit on the very former means you're dead, on the latter that you will die very soon

 

[ShadoWiz4rd]

I'm just saying I've been in events where I was nailed by shrapnel whilst wearing full armor and bled to death beacuse I couldn't bandage myself. Considering noone comes to help you, I'd rather rp being there vulnerable and whoever comes along to have a choice to make if I'm left there.

 

[Blitz]

Ok I'm sorry I don't mean to be toxic I love you Ruairidh but this is exactly what Serhan was talking about. I don't expect a master's degree in Medicine but Hollywood has done a lot of damage and ngl your first sentence pissed me off as you were very confident about being wrong.

(still love you tho)


Firstly, this is medically false. Adrenaline/Epinephrine contributes to vasoconstriction and heart rate, meaning blood pressure is greatly increased from both the increase of resistance and the force and frequency of ejection (see: "Ejection fraction" in medicine). It is what is called a "vasoactive" drug that works very strongly in very little doses (Epinephrine is what 'imitates' natural adrenaline, I will be using these words interchangeably, as I will be referring to the medication only)

And the coronaries (the arteries of the heart) are very, very sensible to these kinds of stresses.

One could argue there is a physical limit to the adrenergic receptors in your vases which is true, but the constant stimulation of those vases is what might lead to the problem: An excessive amount of adrenaline can and will cause coronary collapse leading to infarction, or severe arrhytmia due to unstable heart rate (namely EKG rhythms such as ventricular or auricial tachycardias), especially if artificially injected. In fact, it's not rare for people to experience considerable heart/chest pains on the use of the dreaded epipens (angina pectoris) similar to the pains you'd get during a "heart attack." - and there are cases of IV epinephrine/adrenaline abuse that resulted in death, even in heavily controlled environments such as the ICU, with perfusions.

Do not mistake the fact adrenaline is used in certain cases of cardiac arrest to embetter blood flow with it being unable to cause one. This is due to the properties described above: when the heart's too weak or too erratic to ensure this blood flow, it comes into play. But if it's already pumping properly, it can be bad.

Also, mythbust, there is no such thing as the inhibition of pain due to anything related to adrenaline. That's just Hollywood movie shenanigans.



Secondly, epinephrin application is heavily restricted (at least in every first world country) for medical reasons that require it, namely vascular ones where there is a grave affection of the heart. Noone, and I mean noone, self injects adrenaline before going into a raid. In fact, it is heavily forbidden as it is a serious health risk for the reasons I stated above. People don't do it. Police don't do it.

Meaning that if you get shot and you're already "under the effects of it" - you did something wrong, as no sane person would "preemptively inject themselves with it". And if you mean under NATURAL adrenaline, yeah -- no way. Our body does not suddenly become operable when it's damaged. Actually the opposite.

To follow this up, injecting adrenaline in a person who is bleeding is a TERRIBLE idea. Unless he's going into certain types of cardiac arrest due to blood loss already, DON'T DO IT. They will just bleed out (X) times faster.



Thirdly, your digestive system takes about 1-2h to process the pill you just swallowed and for your liver to activate it just like it does with your food. That's why it takes a while for your paracetamol to kick in and drag away the headache and fever from your cold. Unless you're referring to IV, IM or SC (if those latter even exist) painkillers, that is a different world.



This is not due to adrenaline, but due to the fact the damage a bullet does takes several minutes to really start causing organc failure from the blood loss or affected structure, and other metabolic processes. The pain is the same, comes within a minute or so, especially if nerves are struck. Again, Hollywood has sold us on the fact "damage" is as instant as "relief" from medication. This is not true. They walk off until they drop half an hour later completely dead without any hope of recovery. Think of it as a series of systems that start slowly failing until catastrophe (shock) is reached.

That said, a good shot to the lungs or chest and you're out.



I am a nurse, not a gun nut, but 7.62 and its subtypes has been known to tear limbs apart and make holes as big as 5 to 6 cm in diameter on a person's flesh.

Also, for the love of god. The "stomach" (what you call the intestines) are one of the highest rate mortality GSW types across history entirely, as not only do they bleed more profusely than other organs, save the spleen, liver or the heart itself, but they also make it so very toxic substances and bacteria that circulate in our digestive tract merge with the normal bloodstream. If the bullet doesn't kill you, septic shock will in a few hours, or days. THEYRE A VITAL ORGAN. You cannot subsist without nutrition.

thanks for coming to my ted talk

addendum: addictions also exist

addendum 2: u can't tourniquet A CHEST or a STOMACH

addendum 3: TOURNIQUETS ALSO IMPEDE LIMB FUNCTION

addendum 4: my brother in christ BROKEN RIBS (especially those caused by kinetic/ballistic damage) ARE DANGEROUS

addendum 5: the liver, spleen and kidneys also exist in the abdominal region, and a hit on the very former means you're dead, on the latter that you will die very soon

nerd?