Changing Willard's HL2RP: The Case for a Wipe & More

[Robert]

A full wipe won't magically conjure "competent" people, nor will it fix anything, rather than just serve as a way to get completely new issues or bring us to the existing ones.

There is no magical "Fix the server button", and even if there was, a full wipe isn't one of them. You're essentially throwing everything off a messy, yet at least functional desk, without actually asking yourself why it was messy in the first place, fully hoping that this time history won't repeat itself.

Unfortunately, it will, since all of the reasons why the server became the way it is still remain. In that case, what you ended up doing has killed the interest of the people who did actually care, only to buy yourself a small time of innovation, which will fizzle out eventually, as it always does.

I know it will sound insane... But how about we actually try to fix the issues without jumping the shark? I mean, do you really need a full wipe to raise vort activity? Change FLs? Improve staff? I know, easier said than done, but how would a wipe fix these, exactly? Does it magically improve communication and "fix" CityRP?

I am not saying a full wipe will magically fix everything on its own. No. I am saying a full wipe is REQUIRED for Willard to even dare begin fixing itself. You can never fix an already built community which already has so many holes in it without tearing the entire thing down til there is literally nothing and then build off from there with a new solid foundation.

Trying to repair/fix anything from current to new never works because you are simply building off a sand foundation rather than a concrete one. Lots of people won't be happy about a wipe... sure, but that hardly matters. If what is built is better by design in the end once the problems of the old has been properly understood and corrected in the new design, then anyone lost will either come back or just stay gone, regardless of the case it doesn't matter what they choose.

Something I have been discussing with quite a few people is that even if a community loses 100+ people it is something that you are free to ignore because in the end, we can lose 1000+ and it won't matter much as long as the lesson had been learned + something stronger is built in its place. And I know a wipe will guarantee people leaving but as a recent talk with an unnamed staff said, "It hardly matters how many are lost". (Not naming them as to avoid everyone getting their claws out as per my statement about the "toxicity" of the community which is very much present.)

And yes a wipe is required to answer you last point because you can't just change A or B in a still running server/community. To make changes it has always been proven that changing anything mid-way causing the whole thing to collapse in on itself due to internal warfare and discontent. Shutting everything down and taking away everything in the process as I said in the previous post and above allows you to build on solid foundations rather than foundations made of Sand... and Willard is currently exactly that a functional building sitting on a pile of sand that forever is slipping. You may not agree but in the end, that is the reality of Willard and how Communities tick.

 

[RedHotGinger]

That means characters, lore, staff, CT, SS, Factions and their leads, everyone's whitelists, scripts/items, eco, skills, etc etc. Nothing should remain even the slightest bit intact.

Don't know about other people, but I would probably just pack up and go in this scenario. Would take some six months or (Likely) more to accomplish and completely tear down anything that remotely provided Willard with an identity. Also would remove any and all personal investment anyone had emplaced into Willard. Worse yet, is that it wouldn't even matter as you would effectively just be rebuilding similar shit to replace the old.

From a players perspective, you may as well just jump servers or leave HL2RP entirely at that point. There's reasons that when projects hit a bump, the first reaction is never to dismantle the entire ordeal and start from the ground up.

 

[Lost Coast Chanties]

I am not saying a full wipe will magically fix everything on its own. No. I am saying a full wipe is REQUIRED for Willard to even dare begin fixing itself. You can never fix an already built community which already has so many holes in it without tearing the entire thing down til there is literally nothing and then build off from there with a new solid foundation.

I disagree.

Trying to repair/fix anything from current to new never works because you are simply building off a sand foundation rather than a concrete one. Lots of people won't be happy about a wipe... sure, but that hardly matters. If what is built is better by design in the end once the problems of the old has been properly understood and corrected in the new design, then anyone lost will either come back or just stay gone, regardless of the case it doesn't matter what they choose.

There won't be a "solid foundation", since that's not defined in any way or form. What we have right now can be called shaky, yes, but it has been built from a long amount of time and experience which a newly wiped server won't have - it will either follow the old format, or make a new system with its own set of flaws.

Even if a new structure is put in place, how can one be sure it'll stand the test of time? There have been plenty of cases when a new flashy idea comes up that everyone thinks will work wonders, and yet often these end up either achieving nothing or, worse, earning the ire of the players.

Something I have been discussing with quite a few people is that even if a community loses 100+ people it is something that you are free to ignore because in the end, we can lose 1000+ and it won't matter much as long as the lesson had been learned + something stronger is built in its place. And I know a wipe will guarantee people leaving but as a recent talk with an unnamed staff said, "It hardly matters how many are lost". (Not naming them as to avoid everyone getting their claws out as per my statement about the "toxicity" of the community which is very much present.)

The losing people comment, in my humble opinion, is just idiotic. Who are you building this stronger foundation for if everyone quits? Who will learn this new lesson? Who will use this stronger foundation? It's a Gmod server. I know it's hard to believe, but it relies on the players to function. How will CityRP function if said city only has 7 people on it?

And yes a wipe is required to answer you last point because you can't just change A or B in a still running server/community. To make changes it has always been proven that changing anything mid-way causing the whole thing to collapse in on itself due to internal warfare and discontent. Shutting everything down and taking away everything in the process as I said in the previous post and above allows you to build on solid foundations rather than foundations made of Sand... and Willard is currently exactly that a functional building sitting on a pile of sand that forever is slipping. You may not agree but in the end, that is the reality of Willard and how Communities tick.

If people are opposed to changes, I don't think ripping everything apart and sewing it back together will earn the opposite reaction. If the changes to the formula are good, then people won't mind them. Hell, we already had changes on the server, which to me didn't seem like they caused everything to implode. Did the server really collapse when LFC just started existing? When DOB merged with CWU? MAA turned into the OSF?

At the end of the day, wiping the server just feels to me like a form of escapism, a romantic notion that you can only fix all of the mistakes by completely starting over, "the grass is greener on the other side" type of ordeal. I might not hold deep insight on the broad workings of the server, especially not behind the curtains, but this whole concept simply seems like people don't even want to try to fix anything.

 

[Rat King]

Typing messages on the willard forum while waiting for news from staff is like methadone for these poor, terminally addicted souls. Something to tide off the cravings and withdrawal symptoms as they persist in a miserable half-life.

this is the true half life roleplay ladies and gentlemen, the new paradigm

there's so much contradicting feedback here that id be surprised if anything changed as a result of it

 

[Garratz]

@Freudek Nah bro, Admins do be certified in HVAC, they got it.

 

[Rat King]

@Freudek Nah bro, Admins do be certified in HVAC, they got it.

less how to save willard and more how do i fix my electriQ 18000 BTU 5.2kW Portable Air Conditioner with Heat Pump?

 

[UnLimited]

I don't wanna be the one to slam the book shut on this case but this thread basically finished up at Page 1-2 where the points where straight forward and everyone had the same opinion. Now it's just back and forth action between 5 different people arguing about who has the biggest dick and what factions should be wiped or not.

Couldn't have said it better myself like Freudek did:

Typing messages on the willard forum while waiting for news from staff is like methadone for these poor, terminally addicted souls. Something to tide off the cravings and withdrawal symptoms as they persist in a miserable half-life.

this is the true half life roleplay ladies and gentlemen, the new paradigm

there's so much contradicting feedback here that id be surprised if anything changed as a result of it

Don't know if you've guys have seen the "Spider-man into the spider-verse" movie but it's basically along the lines of wiping everyone's memory about Peter Parkers identity. Due to his inconsistancy about what should be wiped and what shouldn't, the entire universe goes into chaos. We're basically falling into the same rabbit-hole here. The "Agree/Disagree" ratio on Merlinclaws first post is basically a 80% ratio (with hearts). People are obviously itching for a wipe of some sort. Nicpicking what should stay and what shouldn't be wiped is just going to become a cluster-fuck of a situation to connect lore wise just because some bellend said "Please don't wipe LT faction because i get free credits" it's stuiped. Like what the fuck is this LT faction i see on the world-map anyways?



What's happening right now is that:

We have lore that's an absolute dumpster-fire filled with nonsense that shouldn't be there. ("Who are all these faction? Why should i care? etc") 50% of the community has either been banned, exiled or forced to quit in way or another. What most people don't understand is that HL2RP's community is such a small and fragile community. Effectively shooting themselves in the foot by pulling out the Perma-ban card over small offenses. Willards usually sat at 100/100 players with more people in the queue waiting. Now it's less than half. If anything Perma-Bans should actively be reserved for exploiters, hackers, DDosers or "pedophiles" etc. Not because someone didn't do /me after picking up a ration. As said: "You either quit HL2RP Or play long enough to get banned"

At the end of the day, wipe the server and go back to 2019 when everyone loved Willards. It was fun, it was simple and it was fresh. Start with CCA, CWU, CMU, DoB and let people expand from there. You can't build anything new on a foundation that's has already been ruined by players and staff in the past. I'm not here to gaslight Willards, but for the past year nothing has changed and it's obviously not going to fix itself. We either continue in this downwards spiral or we wipe. Simple.

 

[ShadoWiz4rd]

"You either quit HL2RP Or play long enough to get banned"

<3

At the end of the day, wipe the server and go back to 2019

Gonna lose alot of people if we go that route, A-lot of the hate seems to stem from the rebel factions, And we could easily resolve this by "Removing" these factions, ESIC For example could work better as Maoist guerilla's fighting in the Asian country-side so they could stay.

SRF could either be defeated outright or be exiled to the mountains / ruins of Ukraine.

The Patriots could still work but would need to be less openly fighting the combine with A10's and advanced weapons systems and more like back-woods rednecks ambushing the combine under the American banner with a few small well hidden outposts or ""Bunkers"" across continental America. Having them be weapons smugglers and so on.

 

[𝔄𝔪𝔟𝔢𝔯𝔮]

I am very much pro wipe... however....

1. Rebels need rework, all I can attest to but with the amount of critic the other factions have been getting I'm inclined to agree.

2. LFC is too colossal to be included in main server, remove it. It's like a benign tumor, metaphorically speaking.

3. Major toxicity and bias in the staff team, I won't start with names and I hope it will be solved with everything else.

4. I have prime examples, such as during rebel events when they're supposed to do something to harm the combine and they're not supposed to immediately respond they still do anyway and the rebels all die, the event is either voided and it was a waste of everyone's time or it stays unvoided and the combine faction management only gets a slap on the wrist.

5. Cannot attest.

6. As you said, self explanatory.

7. I say return Fungle, but only if he can ignore anyone his beliefs say are bad.

8. This is because of 1, 3 and 4. Also a chunk of 9, if it is really as bad people say.

9. Cannot attest.

10. I gave the "Stages of Apprehension" idea for rebels, and it so far has been ignored, unlike my speak of mind. Only arguments seem to get attention from the mega Willard fans. Or its just No.3 point in play.

11. I suppose? I don't care, as long as everyone gets equal treatment.

12. Cannot attest.

13. Rule 0 is what got me perma banned the first time. I was just starting to try not to get under the ban hammer and booile slapped me with that, like he did with many others from what I know. The rule needs to change or be removed.

 

[Belgg]

This is such a mess.

I agree with RedHot, sort of. We CANNOT wipe everything with nothing to show for it.

However, it is clear that the timeline the HL2RP server is on right now is very stale and people are rapidly losing interest in it. This is something that has happened time and time again throughout many of the large servers throughout the years; LP, TNB, Gridhive, SCG, Neb, etc. The issue of people losing interest and the community fizzling out.

Doing NOTHING will KILL the server SLOWLY.

This is why we need to do something to get people interested in playing on Willard again.

We should take the lessons we've learned over these last two years and come up with something fresh. To do that we're going to have to wipe a lot of what exists currently as it just isn't working.

Here's what we should do to steer out of this:

V3 is exciting, in it contains localized damage, resource cultivation, closed economy (gears of industry), huge model update, and many other things.
New and old players will be excited to come on to try out these systems.

When we release V3 we'll get a big bump in players, which will taper off over the course of a few weeks. Eventually we won't even get over 10 players on the weekends and, before you know it, we'll be where we are now once again.

That is why we should take what we've learned these last two years and put that into redoing these problematic factions from the ground up. This means a wipe of CCA, CP, Rebels, good chunk of CWU, and so on.

Trying to fix them as they currently stand is like trying to fix a house sitting on a crumbling foundation.

The reason why those factions need to all be redone simultaneously is because we tend to focus on rebuilding whichever faction is most problematic while neglecting the others. So, they're 'fixed' one at a time in a cycle, which results in big parts of the server being dysfunctional at all times.

Redo the factions, this time with some careful thought and direction. Think of a storyline for the server to follow and set up the factions so that they best adhere to that storyline. Find leads that are passionate, and give them the support and direction they need so that they don't burn out and become inactive.

In summary, I think our best bet is to replace much of what is bad with something new- built using the lessons we've learned these last two years. We will get a lot of players when V3 launches. Make sure this 'something new' keeps them engaged enough to stick around for months.

Of course, I have a lot of ideas about specific things we can do for this, but this post is already long enough

I disagree with the idea that a wipe will revive the server since if Willard has people right now it's because of their legacy, and because it's a monopoly, but in a few months, new servers will pop up, and if you destroy the only thing Willard will have (its legacy), people that used to play Willard will see no reason to keep playing it since they can't play their characters anymore, so they might as well go to another server.

If a wipe is to happen, which I disagree with, you should let players recreate their characters to avoid a massive exile from Willard. Willard's major problems have nothing to do with a general wipe(character wipe) and have more to do with factions.

The main problems that should be fixed are the following:

1. There are some factions that have leads that have been in LOA for a very long time, and for some reason, they haven't been swapped yet. Willard should move out of important spots people that are not going to play for a long time, and put someone else in that place, even if it's temporary (until they come back)
2. The low amount of players and lack of interest in Willard now is because of the lack of development in the server as of now. There is nothing to do, and no events going on, as there used to be. There is no progress, and that's why people get bored.
3. New players aren't welcome in Willard as of now, given the strict bans that they receive as a first offense (I've been only seeing 2-week bans in December, not a single ban that's below that). That should be reduced by a lot, and treat new players in a different manner, since now, it seems as if they were some sort of pest, instead of being good for Willard's growth.

 

[RedHotGinger]

Willards usually sat at 100/100 players with more people in the queue waiting

This was only ever the case on like fresh launches. (It didn't even have its current capacity for a long time) Lets not polish our rose-tinted googles too hard. I mean shit, the earliest version of Willard I was around for straight up died.

At the end of the day, wipe the server and go back to 2019 when everyone loved Willards

It amazes me that you actually manage to view the wipe as some strange 'fix-all' button. As if the people running the server, the people writing it, the people playing it, the schema it runs on, the development team creating it, the staff managing it and the factions it uses...
suddenly just enter a phoenix rebirth upon being told we're doing it like its "2019" again. Hell, Willard wasn't even around in 2019. It may have been around under its previous identity, but it wasn't Willard.

Something I have been discussing with quite a few people is that even if a community loses 100+ people it is something that you are free to ignore because in the end, we can lose 1000+ and it won't matter much as long as the lesson had been learned

Boy, this is straight up nonsense. It VERY much matters how many players an RP server has. There is a reason people bring it up A LOT when talking about stuff of this nature. If Willard sat permanently at five or ten people the server would be considered DEAD by most people - a condition that would only worsen as low numbers = low incentive for those offline to join. Idealism is fine to an extent, but its going to be damn hard to declare a lesson learned if the server is dead.

And yes a wipe is required to answer you last point because you can't just change A or B in a still running server/community.

A, B and C have all been changed during Willards run-time. We've had factions added and removed. We've had managers leave and added. We've had maps switched and development changes implemented. Loads has changed during server uptime, much of it without even so much as an official break. Even that aside this point is still weak as it implies that you cant just have a break designed to fix the server without a massive all-encompassing wipe.

 

[𝔄𝔪𝔟𝔢𝔯𝔮]

I also think everyone, when speaking of a wipe, is forgetting about how good it would feel, and what would keep you playing on the server more than not doing a wipe. It's like turning your pillow to the cold side, but then, instead of letting it get warm again, you do anything in your power to keep it cool.

With a wipe, rebels would have new hope for achieving their goals. They'd take their time achieving that, by building their empire(s) over time, keeping them playing. Doing things differently, taking over different places, et cetera.

Same case with CityRP, characters could take different paths, instead of joining CP's, they'd join the CWU, former CWU joins CMU, and so on. New character ideas could be executed..

93% of you are lying if you say you don't want a wipe because then you'd quit. Admit it.

 

[Belgg]

3. Major toxicity and bias in the staff team, I won't start with names and I hope it will be solved with everything else.

This is also a big problem and should be dealt with. Most staff members aren't this way, but the ones that act that way and are biased toward some players should be purged from the staff team.

 

[𝔄𝔪𝔟𝔢𝔯𝔮]

I also think everyone, when speaking of a wipe...

When saying this I don't mean it has to be a full wipe, just the characters and the bad lore, instead of making an entirely new everything. Past events could have happened but different people who we dont call by name, and with the wipe, disassociate ourselves from those 'different' characters, and that sort of thing.

 

[Belgg]

just the characters

Yeah, because removing the only thing that keeps Willard players playing right now sounds like a great idea, right?

 

[𝔄𝔪𝔟𝔢𝔯𝔮]

Yeah, because removing the only thing that keeps Willard players playing right now sounds like a great idea, right?

Because it would give a fresh start for everyone, which'd feel, well, fresh. Right now from most POV's on this and other threads is that being an active player on the server is like being Squidward in Clarinetland.

 

[RedHotGinger]

With a wipe, rebels would have new hope for achieving their goals

No they wouldn't. They'd start with nothing, back at square one with no connections, no development and absolutely no starting ground. Yes, that includes no scripts. The only way you could reason they'd finally start doing shit is if the server was rebooted to give them some insane advantages over everyone else (It wouldn't)

Same case with CityRP, characters could take different paths,

The presented logic seems to insinuate that people would just be remaking the exact same characters and just doing random shit with them this time instead. Unless you mean players, but players tend to go to factions they OOC prefer.

93% of you are lying if you say you don't want a wipe because then you'd quit. Admit it.

Literally sounds like you're trying to say everyone who disagrees with you is just too stupid to realize they actually totally do agree with you.

 

[𝔄𝔪𝔟𝔢𝔯𝔮]

Literally sounds like you're trying to say everyone who disagrees with you is just too stupid to realize they actually totally do agree with you.

Literally, have never seen anyone quit any other server just because they wiped. If the server is wiped, it'd remain the best in the HL2RP community to offer, for obvious reasons. Every other server I'm at is yet not launched/at ground floor.

 

[Belgg]

No they wouldn't. They'd start with nothing, back at square one with no connections, no development and absolutely no starting ground. Yes, that includes no scripts. The only way you could reason they'd finally start doing shit is if the server was rebooted to give them some insane advantages over everyone else (It wouldn't)



The presented logic seems to insinuate that people would just be remaking the exact same characters and just doing random shit with them this time instead. Unless you mean players, but players tend to go to factions they OOC prefer.



Literally sounds like you're trying to say everyone who disagrees with you is just too stupid to realize they actually totally do agree with you.

Everything in this post reflects exactly what I think, and I hope this guy gets some attention from the staff team.
As I said before, the wipe won't fix anything, instead, it'll kill the server. What should be done with immediate effect, however, are the things specified below.

I disagree with the idea that a wipe will revive the server since if Willard has people right now it's because of their legacy, and because it's a monopoly, but in a few months, new servers will pop up, and if you destroy the only thing Willard will have (its legacy), people that used to play Willard will see no reason to keep playing it since they can't play their characters anymore, so they might as well go to another server.

If a wipe is to happen, which I disagree with, you should let players recreate their characters to avoid a massive exile from Willard. Willard's major problems have nothing to do with a general wipe(character wipe) and have more to do with factions.

The main problems that should be fixed are the following:

1. There are some factions that have leads that have been in LOA for a very long time, and for some reason, they haven't been swapped yet. Willard should move out of important spots people that are not going to play for a long time, and put someone else in that place, even if it's temporary (until they come back)
2. The low amount of players and lack of interest in Willard now is because of the lack of development in the server as of now. There is nothing to do, and no events going on, as there used to be. There is no progress, and that's why people get bored.
3. New players aren't welcome in Willard as of now, given the strict bans that they receive as a first offense (I've been only seeing 2-week bans in December, not a single ban that's below that). That should be reduced by a lot, and treat new players in a different manner, since now, it seems as if they were some sort of pest, instead of being good for Willard's growth.

 

[Belgg]

it'd remain the best in the HL2RP community to offer

There will be much more options that may or may not have better systems than Willard, or people may have had enough of Willard and use that as an excuse to leave. Are you really that blind to not see it?