Why RebelRP is dead and will always be.

[ClapTrap]

Okay so why is @Belgg getting shamed for doing a player driven event that was not just a BMD quest given out?
This was a full on player led event that he planned and was IC from all parties. This kind of stuff should be encouraged but all the admins here are shaming him for it. Why?

I don't see either of these comments, nor any other comment made by staff on this thread, to be shaming Belgg in any way. They're just disclosing the fact that this wasn't an event sanctioned by any official member as Belgg assumed. M!NT explained the viewpoint of GMs and staff as to their decision-making as calm and collected as you possibly can. It was bound to be messy in some areas due to GMs and staff having to improvise on the fly with what occurred.

We 100% encourage players taking initiative and showcasing their ability to create roleplay without the assistance of admins/CT setting it up for them. Spectating the event was some of the most fun I've had in observer due to knowing it was entirely done through player-agency and decisions, and I'm very pleased with how it ended up considering that there were no PKs. I understand Belgg being heated at the time of writing, but all things considered, this event was a total success in terms of roleplay development/progression and fun-factor.

 

[JakaSmith]

They're just disclosing the fact that this wasn't an event sanctioned by any official member as Belgg assumed

Which is how events should be. We should not have to have admin approval to do these kinds of things, we should just do them. Admins should help players out when they do them, not hinder them like they did to Jun. That door should have been opened when they got there. The door opens when I'm there wanting to explore the Outlands, it should especially open when Jun's army has such an incredibly good reason.

We 100% encourage players taking initiative and showcasing their ability to create roleplay without the assistance of admins/CT setting it up for them. Spectating the event was some of the most fun I've had in observer due to knowing it was entirely done through player-agency and decisions, and I'm very pleased with how it ended up considering that there were no PKs. I understand Belgg being heated at the time of writing, but all things considered, this event was a total success in terms of roleplay development/progression and fun-factor.

I understand, it just does not seem like that was done as good as it could have been from how Belgg is telling it. I was not there.
I just hope to see admins helping players when they do IC shenanigans, not slowing them down.

 

[Donavin Jones]

How to fix rebel RP.
You got two choices.
Option A - Add more trash to loot.
Option B - Change the map.
Boom, fixed rebel RP for you. Not that hard man

 

[toby]

Nah RebelRp Aint Dead We Just Need More People With Real Guns And Real Ammo

 

[Ekrell]

Hey, as a member of Jun's army and the second rebel that managed to escape without getting captured I must agree with both parties.

First things first, it was awesome! I haven't felt such an adrenaline rush in a longer time and I never really care who wins or loses. I think the GMs did great and although things could be a little better explained (I was the main guy who tried finding an escape route for us) I can understand why I rarely got an actual response in all this chaos and more importantly, improvisation. It was never clear to me, as a player, that the bars were indestructible by sheer hammering force. Must've missed it in all the text or something.

There are a few things that felt out of place though, that I can agree on. The most striking example here was the sudden opening of outlands. There could be some kind of a narrative indication that there will be an opening within given amount of time. For example, the battery was so old that it took 60 seconds to register it and actually open up the passage. If we knew it, I imagine way more defensive stances would be undertaken and the casualties could be slightly lower. I was also lacking explanation for the wall breach attempts. The attempts on our side, even if also improvised, were a bit more complex than just bashing mindlessly. We specifically switched the breacher in the middle of stalling to continue with renewed force. It was two people trying to break an old sewer wall. The bars I can understand but the wall couldn't have been that strong to not even be impacted a little bit. Any hint of progress would probably drive us to continue this idea instead of the battery and window. Remember, it was a sledgehammer more or less specifically created for these kind of tasks.

With that being said, I sincerely hope both parties will not have any grudges towards each other and in the future continue to do little unplanned events like these. Sometimes improvisation yields best results.

Also why no AR2 in CWU Warehouse???

Have a good one.

 

[Imperator RAD-X]

So essentially this happened. Alright.​

Better luck next time with the planning of operations such as that. There's ways to commit into the convert path without alerting the whole garrison. Stressful, but these things happen.

 

[Cengiz]

Dude, what kind of game are you playing ?

 

[Imperator RAD-X]

Dude, what kind of game are you playing ?

Not mine but this is what happens when you ship random images from the XCOM modding scene from Google Images lmfao

 

[Robert]

Okay so why is @Belgg getting shamed for doing a player driven event that was not just a BMD quest given out?
This was a full on player led event that he planned and was IC from all parties. This kind of stuff should be encouraged but all the admins here are shaming him for it. Why?

Also the door opens if you have an IC reason. They had an IC reason to go to the Outlands, admins should have opened it asap. Why wait until half the group is downed? They pulled off a heist without your guys help and it seems like your just punishing them for doing it.

I appreciate everything the GM's do but this just seems wrong, I agree with @Belgg

Ah no no. Not trying to shame Belgg here but merely point out that this was something which staff/gms had to react to all of a sudden without any prior heads-up, making it harder for them to coordinate. We encourage players to run their own stories and events by all means just when it comes to parts that need GMs we do prefer some form of heads-up in advance so we are prepared to tackle it. Overall, I think what happened was just a player-driven quest gone wrong via the use of even more players. (Aka, getting spotted and someone reporting it in, so CP players move in)

One of the things I was trying to point out in my post along with Neonity I believe was to make sure there was no confusion in regards to if this was a staff/CT made thing rather than a player. So we answered but trying to clarify it was not any staffing or event figure but just a player to avoid that confusion.

I think everything in total was quite fair based on M!NT's response to what had occurred here. From witnesses not being dealt with by the raiders, to the strange 19 roll of the dice to try cross an impossible gap which not even a 100% perfect roll can get you across because it would still be power game in the sense that it's a completely superhuman move. Even everything after that seems fair with the gate situation and all. Even got a reward for it.

 

[Conundrum]

Reading through this entire thread I can't help but feel it is kind of sus that gate opens when it feels like, but stayed (in)conveniently closed during an important situation.

By default it should have have just been open to them. Anything less (with staff present and witnessing their attempts to open it, but refusing to cooperate) is inherently admin meddling to coerce a certain outcome.

Like I get the arguments about plan A, B's and 3's, but in the end of the day if you want rebels to do anything, you should reward their efforts instead of arbitrarily punishing them by not cooperating by unlocking the magic 'closed at low-pop' door located at a chokepoint while you are observing. It clearly wasn't low pop.

 

[Robert]

Reading through this entire thread I can't help but feel it is kind of sus that gate opens when it feels like, but stayed (in)conveniently closed during an important situation.

By default it should have have just been open to them. Anything less (with staff present and witnessing their attempts to open it, but refusing to cooperate) is inherently admin meddling to coerce a certain outcome.

Like I get the arguments about plan A, B's and 3's, but in the end of the day if you want rebels to do anything, you should reward their efforts instead of arbitrarily punishing them by not cooperating by unlocking the magic 'closed at low-pop' door located at a chokepoint while you are observing.

Well, the context is not really that the door is magically closed. It just always locked and closed pretty much AT ALL times unless someone has the means and tools to open it. Even the people who regularly go through it have procedures/processes to follow to open it, it isn't meant to be a magical door which randomly decides to open but opens when prompted to do so.

And as we see in M!NT's response, the group tried an old battery waiting for the gate to respond then proceeding to bash against the triple-reinforced glass window, which was impossible to break through. As per all of this:

The gate to the outlands:
The gate to the outlands is almost always locked, and hard to get through. Yes they were able to get through it yesterday and I wasn't there for that. The CPs weren't actively chasing then, and all in all, it was a different situation altogether.

Here's what the Jun's army did to try and get through the gate.

1. Use a 20+ year old car battery to try and power it up
2. Try to use a sledgehammer to beat through an iron gate, which behind it was very clearly security glass

The windows in question ^^ Notice how there are rigid iron bars on one side, then thick security glass, then another set of iron bars on the other side.

After a few minutes the CPs showed up, and the group spent some time chatting with them while wasting their time beating on the aforementioned glass. At each opportunity I made it very clear through /it's that their attempts had little effect, yet they continued with this plan.

Eventually, a firefight breaks out. I started a timer for 60 seconds. Two characters out of the group of five are downed, the door is open, and the rest flee to safety. The two that were downed were arrested by the CPs, which interrogated them. One was released, another was taken by the IMS to be 'experimented on'. That character will be released here in a couple days with no knowlege of the event, some mental trauma, and otherwise unharmed.

So at the end of it, there were no PKs. Hardly anything was lost other than the scripts on the bodies of the two that were downed. Jun's group got lots of roleplay and development (especially the guy that was captured) and got a good reward. The CPs were able to investigate and do some RP, and Jun is able to turn in the intel gathered from the IMS building for a hefty reward and/or weaponize it however he sees fit. Its all in all basically a win/win for everyone.

Think that pretty much covers the whole gate and how it works and why the gate wasn't magically open as some think it to be. Even though for 99% of the day, it is sealed tight.

Nothing was put against the players here, it was all pretty fair with a large compensation since of how much they got in the end, and no one died. Sure they lost a few things but overall, they gained quite a bit for a reward too.

Anyway, all the info is down, and I would pretty much say fair game.

 

[Conundrum]

Well, the context is not really that the door is magically closed. It just always locked and closed pretty much AT ALL times unless someone has the means and tools to open it. Even the people who regularly go through it have procedures/processes to follow to open it, it isn't meant to be a magical door which randomly decides to open but opens when prompted to do so.

And as we see in M!NT's response, the group tried an old battery waiting for the gate to respond then proceeding to bash against the triple-reinforced glass window, which was impossible to break through. As per all of this:

I once boredly and unexpectedly spotted an old battery randomly sitting on a power station in the middle of the acid bath after half an hour of apologizing to people caught outside while the door was closed. I thought 'screw it' and Rp'd moving some planks to build a makeshift bridge to where it was. This was at a time where I was purely guessing and had no idea if it even needed a battery to begin with.

An admin then started to move things out of nowhere as I was looking through the prop menu and helped me along.

I grabbed that battery that was probably there for 20 years itself, and shoved it into the slot. The door opened.

I think the precedent of an old battery working has been set, if an old man of no significance can get his shot (Mind, it later caught fire and exploded and said admin kept spawning threats in the wilderness for me, so I at least faced equal consequences for the opportunity afforded). But that's just me. I appreciate this situation created roleplay because that's what we should all strive for. But it feels mean spirited, intentionally or not. Accidental negligence can be just as harmful as wrongful intent.

 

[Ekrell]

There could be some kind of a narrative indication that there will be an opening within given amount of time. For example, the battery was so old that it took 60 seconds to register it and actually open up the passage. If we knew it, I imagine way more defensive stances would be undertaken and the casualties could be slightly lower.

Think that pretty much covers the whole gate and how it works and why the gate wasn't magically open as some think it to be. Even though for 99% of the day, it is sealed tight.

Hear me out though, how did the gate magically open once 60 seconds has passed and two people got downed?

 

[Robert]

Hear me out though, how did the gate magically open once 60 seconds has passed and two people got downed?

In all seriousness, that is more than likely due to the GM realizing keeping it shut will get them all captured and killed. So they decided to get that door opened soon to allow the group to run out of pity.

We have been talking about it a bit already, and I think it's best a system is developed to give that door a permeant standard for how and when it opens for the sake of avoiding this gate being brought up again in the future.

 

[Merlinsclaw]

somewhat related

the term rebel, insurgent freedom fighter, protestor, and rioter is dead.

it has instead been replaced by admin characters and circlejerkers who sit in safe areas / bases all day and refuse to do anything.


----

you won't fix rebel rp by changing the map or adding more trash bags. you change it by having engaging characters that can push things forward in a meaningful way and, as such, people will follow. the problem is that no one does that.

 

[Inspector Orlok]

How to fix rebel RP.
You got two choices.
Option A - Add more trash to loot.
Option B - Change the map.
Boom, fixed rebel RP for you. Not that hard man

Most sane Donavin Jones post

 

[M!NT]

you won't fix rebel rp by changing the map or adding more trash bags. you change it by having engaging characters that can push things forward in a meaningful way and, as such, people will follow. the problem is that no one does that.

We're working on it.

 

[Kappatalist]

somewhat related

the term rebel, insurgent freedom fighter, protestor, and rioter is dead.

it has instead been replaced by admin characters and circlejerkers who sit in safe areas / bases all day and refuse to do anything.


----

you won't fix rebel rp by changing the map or adding more trash bags. you change it by having engaging characters that can push things forward in a meaningful way and, as such, people will follow. the problem is that no one does that.

most sophisticated rebelRP

 

[TheGoodHunter]

after reviewing this thread with the 30+ replies in it, i can now safely say that Belgg has taken yet another L

 

[Morgen]

Mann CPs and overwatch want to kill you and coming after you????Not enough tio get to the outlands)))
And map is pretty shitty as I already said. As it was on WN7 as it origin was.
Why it still here?