Implemented Gunskill Overhaul

[Milky]

I'd suggest the first shot to be accurate as it is, and i agree that a new person to guns would be abit unexperienced to control a weapon but if you're aiming down sight then it should on point, people would start using the burst-fire technique to stay accurate instead of spray and pray, the recoil is fine for a new person since no one new would handle the recoil properly at first but i think it should also be abit increased from your strength. And for shotguns i would suggest it'd be based off your strength attribute, someone with 2/10 would be able to still have it in hand but still quite a big recoil, and so pills and food that increase your strength would also have more use in combat now, 0/10 strenght will have a chance of it flying out of your hands [Imagine OTA raiding and one of them suddenly drops their shotty. Funny.] Could also be beneficial for rebelRP as militia or what not would need to actually train people to use guns instead of 'here ya go', but i can see people getting sweeped and PKed already.

 

[Risvolto]

I'd suggest the first shot to be accurate as it is, and i agree that a new person to guns would be abit unexperienced to control a weapon but if you're aiming down sight then it should on point, people would start using the burst-fire technique to stay accurate instead of spray and pray, the recoil is fine for a new person since no one new would handle the recoil properly at first but i think it should also be abit increased from your strength. And for shotguns i would suggest it'd be based off your strength attribute, someone with 2/10 would be able to still have it in hand but still quite a big recoil, and so pills and food that increase your strength would also have more use in combat now, 0/10 strenght will have a chance of it flying out of your hands [Imagine OTA raiding and one of them suddenly drops their shotty. Funny.] Could also be beneficial for rebelRP as militia or what not would need to actually train people to use guns instead of 'here ya go', but i can see people getting sweeped and PKed already.

I agree that the first shot should hit 100%, as you'd have to be blind to fail that

 

[Muho]

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS this is good and will lead to Reb L's taking care when they try to shot cop and think twice about it

And yes the first shot should always hit the target, and there should be specific cooldowns on weapons first shot thingy. Let's say you shoot 1 shot with AK and the 100% accuracy comes back after 0.75 to 1 second.

 

[M!NT]

OK so I think there is some... confusion here about this all, and I don't think that demo was very good. After all, I did state that it was pretty rough but, whatever. To add to it, the AK isn't really accurate and this code does little to affect its accuracy.

Anyways,

I improved the code so that it scales better, and I added difficulty levels to the weapons. At the moment, their are 4 tiers. The way this works is that there are easy guns, intermediate, expert, etc. The less difficulty the gun has, the less impact it has on your recoil. Aka: its easier to control at lower levels.

This essentially means that this is enforcing some progression. In the sense that its easier to shoot pistols at a low level. Then, once you get a few levels, SMGs become more manageable. From there, rifles become an option. Finally, large calliber rifles, shotguns, and pistols open up. So on and so forth.

Anyways, I know that the recoil in ArcCW looks silly. I'm sorry. This code doesn't touch that. I can mitigate that by reducing the side-to-side recoil though but, there's only so much I can do.

Also, in addition to this stuff, I also added sway to the aim down sight code, which of course scales based on level...

Below are some examples. Do note that, for these examples, I literally just pressed M1- no moving of the mouse.

Here's an example with a pistol:


An SMG:


NOTE: These values will be indicated to the player through the item description:

 

[swagile]

This is cool and all but...

The fact that:
A) Rebels have to train 2-3 different non-combat skills to be effective while CP's only need to train their combat stats and maybe medical if XRAY.
B) Rebels have MUCH less ammo to play around with due to the economy.

This just feels like a major rebel nerf with nothing to compensate, and will further the stagnation of rebels doing nothing. Cause if those examples stay, half of the fight for a rebel will be the carpal tunnel they get IRL trying to keep their virtual character's gun down.

 

[Fallizs]

you might aswell just use Arc9 at this point

 

[Risvolto]

This is cool and all but...

The fact that:
A) Rebels have to train 2-3 different non-combat skills to be effective while CP's only need to train their combat stats and maybe medical if XRAY.
B) Rebels have MUCH less ammo to play around with due to the economy.

This just feels like a major rebel nerf with nothing to compensate, and will further the stagnation of rebels doing nothing. Cause if those examples stay, half of the fight for a rebel will be the carpal tunnel they get IRL trying to keep their virtual character's gun down.

I didn't actually think of this, but it's true. Rebels HAVE to train at least 3-4 skills while combine don't

 

[HalfLife2CitizenMale09]

[EVENT] You attempt to fire the AK-47, though your lack of experience causes you to drop it, it fires and hits you, killing you instantly

 

[M!NT]

This is cool and all but...

The fact that:
A) Rebels have to train 2-3 different non-combat skills to be effective while CP's only need to train their combat stats and maybe medical if XRAY.
B) Rebels have MUCH less ammo to play around with due to the economy.

This just feels like a major rebel nerf with nothing to compensate, and will further the stagnation of rebels doing nothing. Cause if those examples stay, half of the fight for a rebel will be the carpal tunnel they get IRL trying to keep their virtual character's gun down.

Perhaps one might consider joining a group, where said group has people dedicated for doing specific tasks, where they only need to train that specific skill..

This these affect everyone equally. Its not like only rebels will have to train on guns. Of course, balancing wise, there's a lot that can be done, like making ammo cheaper now that people need it to grind the skill. With this will come balancing, I am sure of it. I'm not just going to blindly add this change without making sure its balanced properly via the balancing team.

Also, on the note of this apparently not being fair to rebels: Do you have any suggestions or alternatives then? How can I remedy that

 

[swagile]

Perhaps one might consider joining a group, where said group has people dedicated for doing specific tasks, where they only need to train that specific skill..

This these affect everyone equally. Its not like only rebels will have to train on guns. Of course, balancing wise, there's a lot that can be done, like making ammo cheaper now that people need it to grind the skill. With this will come balancing, I am sure of it. I'm not just going to blindly add this change without making sure its balanced properly via the balancing team.

Also, on the note of this apparently not being fair to rebels: Do you have any suggestions or alternatives then? How can I remedy that

Maybe make it so rebels have to rely less on game-ified skill systems to progress as a whole? Such as better looting system.

Or lower the thresholds for said skills.

Also joining a group and focusing all of your points on 1 skill isn't a solution because of timezone issues, burn out, rebels dying, etc. Thats why the best rebel groups going forward found workarounds so that 1 player could reliably do almost all skills (with things like food boosting) otherwise nothing would ever get done. Now, though, they would actually have to focus Guns much like Speed used to be an essential (due to the TBC system).

 

[M!NT]

Maybe make it so rebels have to rely less on game-ified skill systems to progress as a whole? Such as better looting system.

Or lower the thresholds for said skills.

Also joining a group and focusing all of your points on 1 skill isn't a solution because of timezone issues, burn out, rebels dying, etc. Thats why the best rebel groups going forward found workarounds so that 1 player could reliably do almost all skills (with things like food boosting) otherwise nothing would ever get done. Now, though, they would actually have to focus Guns much like Speed used to be an essential (due to the TBC system).

You don't want 'game-ified skill systems', but you do want a 'better looting system'? What

How else do you want rebels to progress? This gives them progression options, and requires people do more than just have 1 man army type rebel characters. I think that is a bit silly. When I've lead rebel groups in the past, everyone always had a role, and it was always a lot more fun that way..

Burn out, timezone issues, and character deaths effect CPs and, honestly, every other faction equally. That doesn't mean that you can't manage a group so that people have specific roles. Of course, CPs have easier access to ammo because of the nature of the faction. Like I said earlier, we can always discuss making ammo easier to get with this update to balance that out on the rebel side.

 

[ultima]

Perhaps one might consider joining a group, where said group has people dedicated for doing specific tasks, where they only need to train that specific skill..

This these affect everyone equally. Its not like only rebels will have to train on guns. Of course, balancing wise, there's a lot that can be done, like making ammo cheaper now that people need it to grind the skill. With this will come balancing, I am sure of it. I'm not just going to blindly add this change without making sure its balanced properly via the balancing team.

Also, on the note of this apparently not being fair to rebels: Do you have any suggestions or alternatives then? How can I remedy that

if youre going to make the recoil go up insane amounts the lower the gun skill, at least remove the link between the damage and your lvl too.
lvl 1 guns with 500000 recoil and 1 dmg per hit is not le cool

 

[swagile]

You don't want 'game-ified skill systems', but you do want a 'better looting system'? What

How else do you want rebels to progress? This gives them progression options, and requires people do more than just have 1 man army type rebel characters. I think that is a bit silly. When I've lead rebel groups in the past, everyone always had a role, and it was always a lot more fun that way..

Burn out, timezone issues, and character deaths effect CPs and, honestly, every other faction equally. That doesn't mean that you can't manage a group so that people have specific roles. Of course, CPs have easier access to ammo because of the nature of the faction. Like I said earlier, we can always discuss making ammo easier to get with this update to balance that out on the rebel side.

Skill system is super game-ified, whereas loot is a more general game system that equalizes all rebels. Anyone can loot, but not everyone can craft, is what I meant.

You talk of progression as if this is still a RPG yet the staff team keeps trying to push RP. How can you RP if you are too focused on properly fixing your character so they can actually rebel through your skill min-maxing, since if you don't level your character correctly its garbage for rebelRP.

No they do not; losing a 50 medical skill rebel is a MUCH more impactful thing to a group if everyone focuses one skill, or heck, even a level 50 crafting rebel, than it is to lose a CP with max combat skills considering its MUCH easier to get a CP with 50 guns and 50 speed back than it is to get a 50 guns, 50 crafting / medical / etc and speed character back.

They are two completely different sides of a coin with their own struggles; but CP struggles are much more streamlined and efficient than rebel ones.

 

[M!NT]

if youre going to make the recoil go up insane amounts the lower the gun skill, at least remove the link between the damage and your lvl too.
lvl 1 guns with 500000 recoil and 1 dmg per hit is not le cool

AFAIK gun skill currently does not effect damage in any meaningful way. Its currently a useless stat in S2K.

 

[Risvolto]

AFAIK gun skill currently does not effect damage in any meaningful way. Its currently a useless stat in S2K.

It does??
Critical hit chance...
Even when it says 100% critical hit chance, the bodypart you hit, or if the target has armor also count. So yes, the gun skill HAS a use in S2k already

That is why tons of rebels have 30+ guns, or even 50

 

[Neonity]

It does??
Critical hit chance...
Even when it says 100% critical hit chance, the bodypart you hit, or if the target has armor also count. So yes, the gun skill HAS a use in S2k already

That is why tons of rebels have 30+ guns, or even 50

atm gun skills does nothing as of a few balancing changes ago. it may say it does, but in practice it's meaningless

 

[Risvolto]

atm gun skills does nothing as of a few balancing changes ago. it may say it does, but in practice it's meaningless

Wait but when you shoot at someone you have a crit chance, does guns not change that?

 

[gb_]

I'm not sure if anybody has already suggested this or if it has already been discussed, but I think something that relates to guns in general, but not directly to the skill (although it could), is a durability meter on every gun, similar to the tools one. This way, the guns that already exist would need to be constantly maintained by each gun user, and 'lower' tier weapons such as old or scrap-made weaponry should require constant maintenance.

One thing to go along with this is the chance for the weapon to jam, causing the player to have to reload. I think this would cool down S2K a bit (I don't know if it's still active) and make fights a lot more intense.

 

[RedHotGinger]

I dont mind the gun skill getting some actual meat added onto it, but this is one of those things where the extreme end of the spectrum is probably going to be a bit problematic.

That lvl 1 recoil is just so silly to me. Guns have kick sure, but it looks like your character is trying one of these on for size given the amount seen.


On a more practical level, this will have lots of effects on rebels.
Not exactly sure how it will be divided, but this would ensure that to be effective with your weapons, you need at least 30 in guns to safely engage Combine (especially OTA) On the surface, thats actually fine. Someone even mentioned its a nice way to make OTA scary in a natural way.
But...
I do have to turn to the fact that Willard is very combat centric at the end of the day. Nobody remembers the rebels last food drive or hacking attempt or BBQ. What everyone remembers is the combat, cause at the end of the day, your character isn't going to die from a lack of food due to low smuggling. Or die of the Nile Virus due to low medicine. Nor a roof falling ontop of them when they built their base poorly during crafting...

But you absolutely will die if you don't have this leveled up. Which arguably takes the gun skill from the most useless one to the most important. Even over crafting, by a large metric.

Is that a good or bad thing...I don't really know. But Willard rebellion is hyper-combat centric (Not saying this is a good thing, just how it is) and this definitely alters the meta to an extreme degree.

 

[0xNiklas]

I'm not sure if anybody has already suggested this or if it has already been discussed, but I think something that relates to guns in general, but not directly to the skill (although it could), is a durability meter on every gun, similar to the tools one. This way, the guns that already exist would need to be constantly maintained by each gun user, and 'lower' tier weapons such as old or scrap-made weaponry should require constant maintenance.

One thing to go along with this is the chance for the weapon to jam, causing the player to have to reload. I think this would cool down S2K a bit (I don't know if it's still active) and make fights a lot more intense.

TFA Weapons we used could jam. Was funny when I was still a Rank Leader and shot at a Gnome and my gun jammed ( fun fact, I died)