The Overwatch Catastrophy: A Compilation of Issues and a call for Resolution.

[FreeStalker]

The situation occurred today, yes. I'm not sure about blowing-off kneecaps, but I do know that Transhumans were used to injure some members of CEC or CRU, I'm not quite sure. It was an event hosted by both Abe and Rad-X and as far as I know, none of the players partaking in it complained, though it's what I heard, and don't quote me on that.

Edit: Actually from what I'm hearing the feedback was positive.



Each complaint directed towards transhuman members is known by me, even something a simple as chat logs will help us locate the suspect and find out more about the situation. Any evidence helps.

I liked the RP. I was part of it. But I felt it was uncharacteristic of the Combine to just start gunning down it's own Union supervisors/workers trying to find a mole in the organization- When theres literally two cameras in the factory that covers both sides as well as cameras in the lobby....An all powerful technological empire can't sit down for five minutes to do basic investigation- But proceed to do Star Wars Sith Empire style interrogations. Good fear RP. Wrong game and genre.

 

[Manio]

I liked the RP. I was part of it. But I felt it was uncharacteristic of the Combine to just start gunning down it's own Union supervisors/workers trying to find a mole in the organization- When theres literally two cameras in the factory that covers both sides as well as cameras in the lobby....An all powerful technological empire can't sit down for five minutes to do basic investigation- But proceed to do Star Wars Sith Empire style interrogations. Good fear RP. Wrong game and genre.

I wasn't there myself to supervise it (only came after the thing happened) though I'm sure Rad-X and Abe will take the feedback into consideration. Thanks!

 

[Madcombat]

I remember the cool days where we would hold these graduation ceremonies and promotion ceremonies, they'd last a hour long and it'd involve litterally training everyone including even the Overwatch and ensuring those cp's that were invested in becoming overwatch were of the right standard.

The day would begin with us all arriving on train into a event map and then from there being sectioned off. There was the recruits that went off with a Squad Leader and the DvL would take charge over the squad leader's squad whilst he dealt with the recruits.

-The Squad leader would train the recruits in all the basics they needed to know resulting in a test at the end of the session with the DvL supervising the whole ordeal.

-The Squads would be split up, they as squads train among each other and build squad cohesion as they reherse things they new and fix issues they find in each other. This all culminates in all squads facing off against each other in a test of essentially 'Which Squad is the best at *Subject*'
It was fun, it was our chance to hold bragging rights over another squad. It was also our chance to be noticed specifically by those in positions to promote us for competent roleplay and knowledge.

-The Overwatch would be else where, they'd be mostly OOC. Getting things right and trying to ensure they know how to handle situations as these people by nature of being a OTA were already highly competent as roleplayers and the OTA usually tend to be a flat system.

At the end of all of this, the DvL would have all the recruits, all the squads, all the overwatch meet in a large hall where a ceremony would begin. The OTA would take position behind the DvL as the recruits took front rank in one solid line with the squads sectioned behind them. The DvL would announce which Recruits are to be promoted, which recruits are to remain recruits for another two weeks and the recruits that werent fit would be dismissed through a talk with a squad leader IC'ly and OOC'ly to help explain to them what they were missing.

Next up came the promotions and medal rewards where the Squad leaders would be informed which squad appears to be the cream of the crop. Those individuals got the honor of bragging rights for 2 weeks until the next training night. The Squad members would be informed to step up next to the DvL and receive a promotion or a reward depending on how they appeared to him whilst he observed as well as from how the information of their duty in the city has been proceeding.

Somewhere in 2012 this was lost

 

[M!NT]

I remember the cool days where we would hold these graduation ceremonies and promotion ceremonies, they'd last a hour long and it'd involve litterally training everyone including even the Overwatch and ensuring those cp's that were invested in becoming overwatch were of the right standard.

The day would begin with us all arriving on train into a event map and then from there being sectioned off. There was the recruits that went off with a Squad Leader and the DvL would take charge over the squad leader's squad whilst he dealt with the recruits.

-The Squad leader would train the recruits in all the basics they needed to know resulting in a test at the end of the session with the DvL supervising the whole ordeal.

-The Squads would be split up, they as squads train among each other and build squad cohesion as they reherse things they new and fix issues they find in each other. This all culminates in all squads facing off against each other in a test of essentially 'Which Squad is the best at *Subject*'
It was fun, it was our chance to hold bragging rights over another squad. It was also our chance to be noticed specifically by those in positions to promote us for competent roleplay and knowledge.

-The Overwatch would be else where, they'd be mostly OOC. Getting things right and trying to ensure they know how to handle situations as these people by nature of being a OTA were already highly competent as roleplayers and the OTA usually tend to be a flat system.

At the end of all of this, the DvL would have all the recruits, all the squads, all the overwatch meet in a large hall where a ceremony would begin. The OTA would take position behind the DvL as the recruits took front rank in one solid line with the squads sectioned behind them. The DvL would announce which Recruits are to be promoted, which recruits are to remain recruits for another two weeks and the recruits that werent fit would be dismissed through a talk with a squad leader IC'ly and OOC'ly to help explain to them what they were missing.

Next up came the promotions and medal rewards where the Squad leaders would be informed which squad appears to be the cream of the crop. Those individuals got the honor of bragging rights for 2 weeks until the next training night. The Squad members would be informed to step up next to the DvL and receive a promotion or a reward depending on how they appeared to him whilst he observed as well as from how the information of their duty in the city has been proceeding.

Somewhere in 2012 this was lost

I totally agree.
Due to the mentality and approach to civil protection here I have not dared propose such a thing.

However, when implemented correctly, some of the best roleplay I have ever had on a unit in all my time on this game mode was during training events.

 

[Light]

I remember the cool days where we would hold these graduation ceremonies and promotion ceremonies, they'd last a hour long and it'd involve litterally training everyone including even the Overwatch and ensuring those cp's that were invested in becoming overwatch were of the right standard.

-snip-

Golden days indeed. One of the best memories I have too.

 

[Madcombat]

---

But yeah, this is but one of MANY ways of doing things. The past exists to teach a lesson of what works and what doesn't work and I feel like a lot of us KNOW what works and what doesn't work and it infuriates us when we see the state of things.

 

[verTix]

I remember the cool days where we would hold these graduation ceremonies and promotion ceremonies, they'd last a hour long and it'd involve litterally training everyone including even the Overwatch and ensuring those cp's that were invested in becoming overwatch were of the right standard.

The day would begin with us all arriving on train into a event map and then from there being sectioned off. There was the recruits that went off with a Squad Leader and the DvL would take charge over the squad leader's squad whilst he dealt with the recruits.

-The Squad leader would train the recruits in all the basics they needed to know resulting in a test at the end of the session with the DvL supervising the whole ordeal.

-The Squads would be split up, they as squads train among each other and build squad cohesion as they reherse things they new and fix issues they find in each other. This all culminates in all squads facing off against each other in a test of essentially 'Which Squad is the best at *Subject*'
It was fun, it was our chance to hold bragging rights over another squad. It was also our chance to be noticed specifically by those in positions to promote us for competent roleplay and knowledge.

-The Overwatch would be else where, they'd be mostly OOC. Getting things right and trying to ensure they know how to handle situations as these people by nature of being a OTA were already highly competent as roleplayers and the OTA usually tend to be a flat system.

At the end of all of this, the DvL would have all the recruits, all the squads, all the overwatch meet in a large hall where a ceremony would begin. The OTA would take position behind the DvL as the recruits took front rank in one solid line with the squads sectioned behind them. The DvL would announce which Recruits are to be promoted, which recruits are to remain recruits for another two weeks and the recruits that werent fit would be dismissed through a talk with a squad leader IC'ly and OOC'ly to help explain to them what they were missing.

Next up came the promotions and medal rewards where the Squad leaders would be informed which squad appears to be the cream of the crop. Those individuals got the honor of bragging rights for 2 weeks until the next training night. The Squad members would be informed to step up next to the DvL and receive a promotion or a reward depending on how they appeared to him whilst he observed as well as from how the information of their duty in the city has been proceeding.

Somewhere in 2012 this was lost

Sounds great on paper, but now you have 40+ citizens left unattended.

 

[FreeStalker]

Sounds great on paper, but now you have 40+ citizens left unattended.

You can easily incorporate that for citizens too. They can attend.

Or you know that loyalty system that I haven't seen touched since start? How about ceremonies for citizens that have shown exemplar performance and loyalty to the Union? It would be beneficial to the Combine to show that loyalty works and is rewarded- to have more obedient slaves at their disposal. Instead you have the opposite.

Almost every encounter I have had with the CPs makes me think they want me to make my loyal DOP member a rebel.

Minus one encounter where they just arrested some minge chick for taking a shit in a restaurant freezer and raping other characters. Thanks for that.

 

[Madcombat]

Sounds great on paper, but now you have 40+ citizens left unattended.

No because you organise it in a means where they arent unattended. This is very easy to do and you make it work by knowledge of the communities peaks/lowests. Remember, you still get a fair few who don't want to go through the training and so they are let loose.

It's all about comprimise and knowing how to handle things. For example- you can easily get gaps in training which allows one squad to go out on patrol whilst the other makes use of facilities.

Theres litterally TONS of ways to handle somthing like that and we did.

 

[Madcombat]

You can easily incorporate that for citizens too. They can attend.

Or you know that loyalty system that I haven't seen touched since start? How about ceremonies for citizens that have shown exemplar performance and loyalty to the Union? It would be beneficial to the Combine to show that loyalty works and is rewarded- to have more obedient slaves at their disposal. Instead you have the opposite.

Almost every encounter I have had with the CPs makes me think they want me to make my loyal DOP member a rebel.

Minus one encounter where they just arrested some minge chick for taking a shit in a restaurant freezer and raping other characters. Thanks for that.

See it's not hard- a little creativity goes a long way.

 

[Pawlu]

I myself have a case of my own. I was walking in the big CMU building, I was looking around seeing what was side since I hadn't been there, I noticed a door (It had no restricted access ) I decide to walk in to find what looks like an industrial area only to then find 4 CPs who then detained me and gave me re-education despite it being a fault of the CMU/Combine for never placing a lock and/or restricted access sign which is used on the actual medical offices above.

 

[Cold Steel]

So far I've actively tried to avoid killing people as Civil Protection if I could help it (I have only killed a minge with a melee weapon so far. So effectively I have not killed anyone). But I feel some of the rule-set leads to strange, aggressive behavior. One of the biggest complaints I have is people going out of there way to kill all people who may be mentally unfit.

The green paint guy mentioned in the post was acting weird, but ICly I could not see my character going through the effort to take him into detainment and killing him because he was not hurting anyone. I tied him up, searched him, and then released him into the CMU telling the doctors to "Get this fucking paint off him" (clearly that did not happen or he found more paint. rest in peace green paint man). Another instance was a guy walking around with a spray bottle and spraying people. Again, people were wanting to label him mentally unfit to be executed (which was pretty funny). ICly my unit could not believe they were even dealing with something like that, so she gave him a very stern warning to cut it out.

Contrary to the circlejerk of citizen lives not mattering to the union... they kind of do. Maybe not to the combine, but the more human sections care more about human life. Why are they contained in cities rather than being quickly phased out by becoming various trans-human constructs? Killing them off over petty, inconsequential things is a bit much considering humans cannot reproduce. This is why I also advocate for CAB being able to change more policies pertaining to citizens (or at-least trying) to show the contrast between human elements and alien elements.

I think this problem of aggression stems from civil protection wanting to over perform and adhere to the rules for fear of OOC punishment. Logically speaking, a fresh recruit with no memory replacement would struggle to enforce many of the more specific union rules. Like am I really going to beat the shit out of the guy for carrying a refrigerator door? I might ask him what he is doing with it, but in the perspective of my unit it's not worth their time. If I get blasted by dispatch some day for not hyper-policing every little thing, then so be it.

Essentially, CP aggression comes from a hyper-aggressive OOC need to 'do a good job' which just ends up ruining everything.

 

[M!NT]

So far I've actively tried to avoid killing people as Civil Protection if I could help it (I have only killed a minge with a melee weapon so far. So effectively I have not killed anyone). But I feel some of the rule-set leads to strange, aggressive behavior. One of the biggest complaints I have is people going out of there way to kill all people who may be mentally unfit.

The green paint guy mentioned in the post was acting weird, but ICly I could not see my character going through the effort to take him into detainment and killing him because he was not hurting anyone. I tied him up, searched him, and then released him into the CMU telling the doctors to "Get this fucking paint off him" (clearly that did not happen or he found more paint. rest in peace green paint man). Another instance was a guy walking around with a spray bottle and spraying people. Again, people were wanting to label him mentally unfit to be executed (which was pretty funny). ICly my unit could not believe they were even dealing with something like that, so she gave him a very stern warning to cut it out.

Contrary to the circlejerk of citizen lives not mattering to the union... they kind of do. Maybe not to the combine, but the more human sections care more about human life. Why are they contained in cities rather than being quickly phased out by becoming various trans-human constructs? Killing them off over petty, inconsequential things is a bit much considering humans cannot reproduce. This is why I also advocate for CAB being able to change more policies pertaining to citizens (or at-least trying) to show the contrast between human elements and alien elements.

I think this problem of aggression stems from civil protection wanting to over perform and adhere to the rules for fear of OOC punishment. Logically speaking, a fresh recruit with no memory replacement would struggle to enforce many of the more specific union rules. Like am I really going to beat the shit out of the guy for carrying a refrigerator door? I might ask him what he is doing with it, but in the perspective of my unit it's not worth their time. If I get blasted by dispatch some day for not hyper-policing every little thing, then so be it.

Essentially, CP aggression comes from a hyper-aggressive OOC need to 'do a good job' which just ends up ruining everything.

Precisely.

The approach here seems to be black and white. Either all or nothing.
This leaves no room for interesting character development and destroys the potential for interesting roleplay.
CP roleplay should not be black and white, 'us vs them', it should be much more gray. Something in between.

 

[Madcombat]

So far I've actively tried to avoid killing people as Civil Protection if I could help it (I have only killed a minge with a melee weapon so far. So effectively I have not killed anyone). But I feel some of the rule-set leads to strange, aggressive behavior. One of the biggest complaints I have is people going out of there way to kill all people who may be mentally unfit.

Ah- A very good observation. So yeah this is a 'We need to do everything super by the book' mentality but no one when designing this mentality has thought about "Okay, what severities though?"

And this is the thing, people do have mental illnesses and these things should be able to freely be roleplayed out. It adds a layer of complexity to characters. But when you make any sort of "This guy is mentally ill, let's kill him off because of that." you kill a layer of character complexity

Don't get me wrong, there is people who go nuts with it and use it for a excuse to cause a scene but there is legitimately people who're trying to develop a well thought character only to get the boot stomped on their face because the Combine refuses to allow a little nuisance in characters.

Contrary to the circlejerk of citizen lives not mattering to the union... they kind of do. Maybe not to the combine, but the more human sections care more about human life. Why are they contained in cities rather than being quickly phased out by becoming various trans-human constructs? Killing them off over petty, inconsequential things is a bit much considering humans cannot reproduce. This is why I also advocate for CAB being able to change more policies pertaining to citizens (or at-least trying) to show the contrast between human elements and alien elements.

Hell yeah brotha'!

I think this problem of aggression stems from civil protection wanting to over perform and adhere to the rules for fear of OOC punishment. Logically speaking, a fresh recruit with no memory replacement would struggle to enforce many of the more specific union rules. Like am I really going to beat the shit out of the guy for carrying a refrigerator door? I might ask him what he is doing with it, but in the perspective of my unit it's not worth their time. If I get blasted by dispatch some day for not hyper-policing every little thing, then so be it.

Keep fighting the good fight my man, this is what we want to see.

Essentially, CP aggression comes from a hyper-aggressive OOC need to 'do a good job' which just ends up ruining everything.

And this is why I have a issue with how things are being ran- no one at any point has considered anything else other then. "We're just going to get units that know everything and are completely adherent to the systems we've put in place." This is a monotone faction control without looking at what other things have to offer.

We want a diverse faction that actually has something positive to offer the server, we don't want a menace to the roleplay.

 

[Black Flag]

How about you explicitly give examples of how you would like CPs to act. Saying we want them to benefit the server and RP is just fancy words that have no inherent meaning. CPs I’ve interacted with as a citizen and as a CP are neutral at best.

 

[Madcombat]

How about you explicitly give examples of how you would like CPs to act. Saying we want them to benefit the server and RP is just fancy words that have no inherent meaning. CPs I’ve interacted with as a citizen and as a CP are neutral at best.

Sure, very easy infact.

Interactions can be anything outside of that training manual or what you see in half life 2. Not every interaction needs to be a negative one with negative scenario's for the individuals involved. Remember, you're playing a character with thoughts, feelings, life style.

Let's assume you're going to beat someone for something, you can denote a lot of expression in your writing such as it being a regretful act, a hint that you don't want to do something but are forced to. You can even say things in a different manner rather then appearing stoic all the time. For example, showing that your character is clearly afraid, showing that you actively sympasise with someone. Hell even begging for someone not to do something just so you don't have to do something you don't want to.

^ All of this, you can do and it generates metric fuck tons of relatability in the eyes of who ever you are roleplaying with.

2nd. Let's assume you're not actually punishing someone.

You can still literally talk to people, you can strike up a odd nervous conversation on the side with character, routine questions "How was your day?" - "How are you feeling."

Hell, you can even go on the limp and slips a ration reward when no one is looking. There is just so much you could literally do.

Let's go again, you could be playing a long con on citizens, appearing soft to them and compelling but in truth just trying to acquire trust to find something greater.

Once again, there is a metric fuck ton that you can literally do.

---

What doesn't contribute at all is just being that same unit that you see in HL2. (An NPC.)
If all your interactions with the citizen populace consist of "Citizen, get out of here!" and "MOVE BACK RIGHT NOW!!!" and "PREPARE TO RECEIVE CIVIL JUDGEMENT." and other standard-text book things, then you're not meeting the mark we're trying to talk about.

Let me just add- if you don't even understand why this is a problem in the first place because "We're in a dystopia!" then you're literally a example of what we're talking about- and if you've been told that you can't do any of this, you should say so.

Again, we're after better characters, not NPC's. You want the playerbase to respect CP's? You got to show us your character and what sets them apart from the rest. Do that and you're fine, you have my respect.

 

[Maroon]

I think a huge issue is that a lot of CP's are actually afraid to play their character. With constant (admin) surveillance by Dispatch, and being hounded every 10 minutes by rank leaders over the radio, and sterilization credit punishments being handed out rather leniently, there is no reason to play something other than the distant, hyper-focused cop. Some may like that, I do not, and I think a lot of other players don't either. My suggestion is to restrict Dispatch to scanner characters, and not allow the AI/observer ones. Let PT's have more autonomy and stop checking them as often as is done. Let people play a character and break the (ic) rules for a bit, so cops can see that, yes, it's okay to roleplay.

To clarify, Spine is aware of this, and actively encouraged CP's find ways to break minor rules and play their character as a character. This is more something of an explanation on why certain CP's behave a certain way, and it just needs to be clarified again that, yes, it's okay to roleplay.

 

[Fabulous]

I think a huge issue is that a lot of CP's are actually afraid to play their character. With constant (admin) surveillance by Dispatch, and being hounded every 10 minutes by rank leaders over the radio, and sterilization credit punishments being handed out rather leniently, there is no reason to play something other than the distant, hyper-focused cop. Some may like that, I do not, and I think a lot of other players don't either. My suggestion is to restrict Dispatch to scanner characters, and not allow the AI/observer ones. Let PT's have more autonomy and stop checking them as often as is done. Let people play a character and break the (ic) rules for a bit, so cops can see that, yes, it's okay to roleplay.

I agree with this. My character already breaks the patrol partner rule often, I see this as an IC issue if she gets caught, and I deal with this IC but I understand not everyone can feel this confident about some actions. The fact that Dispatch monitors your every movement and you have to have a partner at all times simply erases the chance of you being able to act out of protocol, aka being generous to people, chat around, save people from verdicts etc. Some things you just can't do when there's a risk of your partner or dispatch telling on you.

On the bright side though, I was told they're working on that to be changed.

 

[Ekolait]

Lets not have OTAs clamping or waiting for the individual to be escorted at the gates to the nexus. They are mostly exhibits there and toys for the minges to play with. As an example yesterday an OTA was waiting to escort a person at SJ-1, a minge spotted him and just minge ran through the place where the force-field used to stand, the OTA open fired and at the end of the turn-based combat he was killed in front of other people, dropping all of his items. So other minges swarmed and started collecting the dropped things. What I'm trying to say here is that the positioning of OTAs can cause chaos. I understand it looks cool, but is it worth it?

 

[Cold Steel]

Putting people on blast like this isn't going to bring a swifter resolution - or whatever resolution it does bring will be sloppy and half-finished due to community pressure, if not infighting and resentment in the staff team for being tossed under the bus.

Good thing it's getting attention but keep that in mind.

Trainings are also very rarely as effective as you think they are. Most people just want to get out and play their character; they'll say and do anything to pass then play what they want to regardless. It's a mentality issue, not a lack of IC training.

Nah, it's not a mentality issue in my humble opinion. Including training and events that promote unit cohesion actually lets people play their characters much better because it builds bonds. Most units who want to get out and just play their characters are not really playing much of a character (many of them just stand at a hardpoint). Making experiences like training happen gives CP memories to pull on when they are bantering about with one another which makes a more lively setting.

Plus I feel making training also tangibly shows how people make /me's, if they will P2L, and so on.