Open Letter To Community & Staff

[dusty]

Regarding Recent Ban and Rule Change


Dear Community Members and Administrators,​

I am writing to address the recent ban imposed on my account and the subsequent rule change that has led to this situation. Firstly, I want to express that I hold no animosity towards anyone within our community, and my intention here is to engage in constructive dialogue.


My name is Lasse, and I've recently found myself in a situation where one of my characters uttered a derogatory term, specifically the word "faggot." As a member of the LGBTQ+ community myself, I want to emphasise that I vehemently condemn such language. However, I believe it's crucial to contextualise the roleplay environment and the purpose of portraying characters who may express views and behaviours diametrically opposed to our personal beliefs.


Upon joining this community, I familiarised myself with the established rules, which at that time, permitted in-character racism under specific conditions. I adhered to these guidelines, understanding that while IC racism was allowed, it should not be overtly racist or used to circumvent OOC restrictions. In accordance with this understanding, I engaged in roleplay activities that adhered to the existing rules.


However, the landscape changed when a retrospective rule adjustment was made, expanding the scope to explicitly prohibit not only racial slurs but also homophobia. This modification occurred after the incident in question, which leads me to question the fairness of my retrospective ban.


I understand and support the need for community guidelines that foster inclusivity and respect. However, I believe it's essential to maintain consistency and transparency in enforcing these rules. Retroactively penalising actions that were permissible under the previous rule set raises concerns regarding fairness and due process.


Therefore, I respectfully seek clarification from the administrative team regarding the rationale behind my ban and the decision to apply new rules retrospectively. I invite open discussion and encourage transparency in addressing this matter.


Thank you for your attention, and I look forward to engaging in productive dialogue to resolve this issue.


Sincerely,

Lasse

 

[nath1234567]

Not sure why the staff team is sending admins to comb through the logs so that they can ban people based off of newly implemented guidelines. What happened to good faith?

It seems a complaint wasn't issued during the incident so there was likely no negative impact to the quality of roleplay, as we're dealing with an established character and active member of the community, in which their removal from the server over something that could have been handled in a simple warning is far more impactful to the roleplay of the server considering said characters forced absence from IC events due to this issue.

Another note is that the character clearly isn't using the term to attack someone based on their sexuality. Like most times this word is used, he was using it as a synonym to call someone lame. The fact that he is OOCly a member of LGBT makes this ban all the more ridiculous. It again could have been handled with a warning considering we are dealing with an active participant of the community, whose presence is overall beneficial to the server. The player also would have fully complied with a reasonable warning over the situation, but instead this has been escalated to a ban so that it can be a headache for everyone who interacts with their character regularly.

With all that being said, I would like to hear from staff why this situation was so urgent that it required someone to search through server logs to apply a ban when this all could easily be resolved through a warning? Please consider the impact you're having on the server roleplay by banning him. And the fact that the rules were different at the time of this incident.

I'd really not like to see players be treated so poorly like this.

 

[Deleted member 418]

The fact that he is OOCly a member of LGBT makes this ban all the more ridiculous.

I wouldn't use this as an argument in this case, since it's applying a double standard. Being part of a group doesn't negate a words or actions negative attributes, likewise if a black person calls another person the N-word in comparison, or a homosexual someone the F word. They're both still slurs and being part of an ethnic group or race or organisation/movement doesn't take away from it. Plus, I'm a 100% certain the banning staff member didn't even know they're affiliated with LGBTQ- not like it matters from a sober perch.

Nevertheless, applying a ban to someone retroactively before a change in the rules was made is just a bad application of faith and enforcement. One shouldn't be subjected to something that wasn't outlawed before, and it's not like the F-word being used - above all else in-game - is one of the worst examples to warrant a lengthier ban.

I had a short chat with Rad-X in DMs about this and was just told that roleplaying racism/discrimination is "moderated" - whatever that means, not like the announcement added any more sense to it. I believe it means "in moderation" or "moderate racism" that isn't outright severe slurs such as the N-word. Still, its written a little vague. I understand you can't possibly compile a list of all words one shouldn't use, but I think stating as much as "you can't say strong slurs as they are too offensive" could suffice here.

Anyway, since this is about addressing a ban: I don't know what they said and to which extend; if it was just the F-word once, I don't think this should disembogue in a ban a fortiori after the rules were changed. Just looks like fishing for a reason to oust members for something that they had little control over.

 

[Fedora]

Not sure why the staff team is sending admins to comb through the logs so that they can ban people based off of newly implemented guidelines. What happened to good faith?

hi quick note here, the bans were before the implemented guidelines and the staff team didn't send other staff to dig through logs. It was a server council member and staff member who shifted through logs of people saying the word and then banning them which sparked a whole discussion on saying the slurs IC, which then lead to the rule change as you saw implemented yesterday.

We also don't have knowledge that a player is part of the LGBTQ+ community, we also have people part of that community who is part of our staff team who feel differently on the use of the word.

For your information aswell, @Kappatalist and I are the ban managers and will be looking through the appeals. I think this will be handled by a case-by-case basis, I still need to talk to Kappa about how this will be handled. For example, we might decide to keep those banned who meant the word in an OOC malicious way while saying the word IC.

 

[Vewoth]

Regarding Recent Ban and Rule Change


Dear Community Members and Administrators,​

I am writing to address the recent ban imposed on my account and the subsequent rule change that has led to this situation. Firstly, I want to express that I hold no animosity towards anyone within our community, and my intention here is to engage in constructive dialogue.


My name is Lasse, and I've recently found myself in a situation where one of my characters uttered a derogatory term, specifically the word "faggot." As a member of the LGBTQ+ community myself, I want to emphasise that I vehemently condemn such language. However, I believe it's crucial to contextualise the roleplay environment and the purpose of portraying characters who may express views and behaviours diametrically opposed to our personal beliefs.


Upon joining this community, I familiarised myself with the established rules, which at that time, permitted in-character racism under specific conditions. I adhered to these guidelines, understanding that while IC racism was allowed, it should not be overtly racist or used to circumvent OOC restrictions. In accordance with this understanding, I engaged in roleplay activities that adhered to the existing rules.


However, the landscape changed when a retrospective rule adjustment was made, expanding the scope to explicitly prohibit not only racial slurs but also homophobia. This modification occurred after the incident in question, which leads me to question the fairness of my retrospective ban.


I understand and support the need for community guidelines that foster inclusivity and respect. However, I believe it's essential to maintain consistency and transparency in enforcing these rules. Retroactively penalising actions that were permissible under the previous rule set raises concerns regarding fairness and due process.


Therefore, I respectfully seek clarification from the administrative team regarding the rationale behind my ban and the decision to apply new rules retrospectively. I invite open discussion and encourage transparency in addressing this matter.


Thank you for your attention, and I look forward to engaging in productive dialogue to resolve this issue.


Sincerely,

Lasse

As someone who's been banned before...multiple times... I'm sorry to hear you got banned. Regardless of what or how, or if the person deserves it or not or w/e, it sucks for that person. Period. Not a fun time. So, whether you earned it not, - hang in there.

If you did earn it, I'd recommend making a ban appeal. If you already made a ban appeal, and for that reason you're making this post.... I'll also tell you, as someone who also blew up the admin abuse threads in the past and spewed my fair share of toxicity, that trying to appeal your ban through another thread is not a good idea. Trust the ban managers in your appeal, and give them a fair shake.

If I were you - and not to be discouraging here but I'm not gonna BS you - but if I were you, and if what you say is true, and you really feel this way, then I would move my thread to General Discussion, open a poll, and ask for an opportunity for community discussion to influence either a rule change or a change in adjudication of those rules that would affect everyone punished in the way you were punished (in this case, you're saying retroactive punishment using logs, which I don't personally know anything about, but can be dangerous way to adjudicate, in all fairness).

Personally, I feel no remorse for you other than the fact you got banned, and that's just empathy. Sorry.

Whether IC or not, regardless of the purpose, even if it was joking, or for roleplay, or for character, I applaud your ability to take on a character different from your own. In this instance, if you play a homophobe while you, yourself, are LGBTQ+ or friendly....

But there's no tolerance for racism, sexism, or discrimination, to include acts that are homophobic, regardless of by whom. Zero. None. Zilch. Zip. If it were up to me, anyone with a racist or discriminatory character or who utters a word that reflects real world prejudice (not lore prejudice, like hating Vortigaunts... unless they really exist >.>).. but any of those players would be perma banned. One way ticket to the OOC Nova Prospekt. Say "Hi" to Gordon for me while you scream whatever slur you used.

Just as a person using a racial epithet that was intended as a derogatory slur for them or their race or ethnicity is not acceptable, so is this not acceptable. I don't know what you hope to find with this thread, but I promise you there won't be much sympathy in whatever is there. THere shouldn't be. I really don't mean this to be malicious or harsh. Someone who is black should never use the N-word as much as anyone else; someone who is of Asian descent should never use the Ch- word, someone who is white should never use the C-word, and someone who is LGBTQ+ should never use the "F" word. It's never acceptable, no matter who is saying it. Not as a joke, not for a friend, not with a meme, and not for a game, even this one.

In my humble experience to you, as someone who was banned, your best bet (because this thread isn't it), is to use your time banned to reflect on what you did wrong, why you did it, and how you're going to use this as an opportunity to turn it around by changing your attitude and behavior by never doing it again, and move on.

But that takes time. Not a thread. Making a thread about it right after the fact is not going to produce the intended results you're desiring. If anything, this thread is going to be interpreted in a way that causes your actions to be counterproductive to their ends - viz a vis - as someone who broke the rules trying to get out of the same punishment that was dished out to everyone else.

TL;DR: I'm sorry you were banned as a once-permad myself, props to you for being able to play a different character than your personality, but prejudice is not and SHOULD NOT be tolerated, no matter who you are, so I'd use your ban time to become a better person and player in the community. If you happen to get unbanned, then I hope you'll still refrain from this in the future. It's just not cool.

 

[dusty]

Spoiler

As someone who's been banned before...multiple times... I'm sorry to hear you got banned. Regardless of what or how, or if the person deserves it or not or w/e, it sucks for that person. Period. Not a fun time. So, whether you earned it not, - hang in there.

If you did earn it, I'd recommend making a ban appeal. If you already made a ban appeal, and for that reason you're making this post.... I'll also tell you, as someone who also blew up the admin abuse threads in the past and spewed my fair share of toxicity, that trying to appeal your ban through another thread is not a good idea. Trust the ban managers in your appeal, and give them a fair shake.

If I were you - and not to be discouraging here but I'm not gonna BS you - but if I were you, and if what you say is true, and you really feel this way, then I would move my thread to General Discussion, open a poll, and ask for an opportunity for community discussion to influence either a rule change or a change in adjudication of those rules that would affect everyone punished in the way you were punished (in this case, you're saying retroactive punishment using logs, which I don't personally know anything about, but can be dangerous way to adjudicate, in all fairness).

Personally, I feel no remorse for you other than the fact you got banned, and that's just empathy. Sorry.

Whether IC or not, regardless of the purpose, even if it was joking, or for roleplay, or for character, I applaud your ability to take on a character different from your own. In this instance, if you play a homophobe while you, yourself, are LGBTQ+ or friendly....

But there's no tolerance for racism, sexism, or discrimination, to include acts that are homophobic, regardless of by whom. Zero. None. Zilch. Zip. If it were up to me, anyone with a racist or discriminatory character or who utters a word that reflects real world prejudice (not lore prejudice, like hating Vortigaunts... unless they really exist >.>).. but any of those players would be perma banned. One way ticket to the OOC Nova Prospekt. Say "Hi" to Gordon for me while you scream whatever slur you used.

Just as a person using a racial epithet that was intended as a derogatory slur for them or their race or ethnicity is not acceptable, so is this not acceptable. I don't know what you hope to find with this thread, but I promise you there won't be much sympathy in whatever is there. THere shouldn't be. I really don't mean this to be malicious or harsh. Someone who is black should never use the N-word as much as anyone else; someone who is of Asian descent should never use the Ch- word, someone who is white should never use the C-word, and someone who is LGBTQ+ should never use the "F" word. It's never acceptable, no matter who is saying it. Not as a joke, not for a friend, not with a meme, and not for a game, even this one.

In my humble experience to you, as someone who was banned, your best bet (because this thread isn't it), is to use your time banned to reflect on what you did wrong, why you did it, and how you're going to use this as an opportunity to turn it around by changing your attitude and behavior by never doing it again, and move on.

But that takes time. Not a thread. Making a thread about it right after the fact is not going to produce the intended results you're desiring. If anything, this thread is going to be interpreted in a way that causes your actions to be counterproductive to their ends - viz a vis - as someone who broke the rules trying to get out of the same punishment that was dished out to everyone else.

TL;DR: I'm sorry you were banned as a once-permad myself, props to you for being able to play a different character than your personality, but prejudice is not and SHOULD NOT be tolerated, no matter who you are, so I'd use your ban time to become a better person and player in the community. If you happen to get unbanned, then I hope you'll still refrain from this in the future. It's just not cool.

It seems you may have missed the core issue I'm addressing. The purpose of my post is not solely to appeal my ban but to initiate a broader discussion about retrospective punishment following rule changes.

Your suggestion to move the thread to General Discussion and open a poll for community discussion is something I will consider, as community dialogue and positively influencing rule changes is indeed one of my intentions.

I also appreciate your recognition of the complexity of portraying characters different from one's own and your stance against prejudice and discrimination, which I wholeheartedly share.

However, I must clarify that my goal is not seeking sympathy but raising awareness and engaging in constructive criticism of the rules and how they are applied.

I made it very clear in my initial post that my characters do not reflect who I am as a person. As a wise man once said, 'IC is IC'.

 

[dusty]

It was a server council member and staff member who shifted through logs of people saying the word and then banning them which sparked a whole discussion on saying the slurs IC, which then lead to the rule change as you saw implemented yesterday.

If this is the case, then I ask why M!NT said this in my appeal, as it seems to support the whole point I am trying to make.

The rules have been modified to clarify this.

If indeed the rules have been updated for clarity, as M!NT indicated, it suggests an awareness of the potential ambiguity and misinterpretation in the previous version. My contention lies in the fact that if it were prohibited to use the F-word in-character, why was this stipulation not explicitly articulated from the outset? The need for subsequent clarification lends weight to the core argument I presented in my post.

 

[JustWats]

Am I going to get banned for my character singing along to the songs by Niggaz With Attitude on the Rebel Radio?

 

[ItsLiam]

I personally think that you can't ban someone based on rules implemented at a later time. Willard also used to be an entirely different server in the past where slurs were regularly used in the Discord and nobody gave a shit.

Sure, it's different now, but the rules never stated that literally and like dusty said "If indeed the rules have been updated for clarity, as M!NT indicated, it suggests an awareness of the potential ambiguity and misinterpretation in the previous version.".

I can think of an earlier incident (The Chip-Looping) where an entire purge happened, causing around 10 people to be banned, only for 80% of them to be unbanned straight after because the rules didn't state it wasn't allowed, thus it was unfair to ban them based on that.

Although I think slurs (to provide RP) should be allowed if there isn't any OOC malice, I do think that if Willard wants to move away from them it's entirely fair. BUT it's unfair to ban the people who have shown no OOC malice in using these words, since the rules didn't state so before.

That's my 2 cents on this.

 

[nath1234567]

hi quick note here, the bans were before the implemented guidelines and the staff team didn't send other staff to dig through logs. It was a server council member and staff member who shifted through logs of people saying the word and then banning them which sparked a whole discussion on saying the slurs IC, which then lead to the rule change as you saw implemented yesterday.

We also don't have knowledge that a player is part of the LGBTQ+ community, we also have people part of that community who is part of our staff team who feel differently on the use of the word.

For your information aswell, @Kappatalist and I are the ban managers and will be looking through the appeals. I think this will be handled by a case-by-case basis, I still need to talk to Kappa about how this will be handled. For example, we might decide to keep those banned who meant the word in an OOC malicious way while saying the word IC.

I still fail to see how this situation couldn't have been handled with a simple warning. Searching through logs with the intention of banning legit RPers and active members of the community seems ridiculous. It's not like we're dealing with a troll who has NITRP. Dusty is a legit RP'er who wouldn't have repeated the word had a member of staff approached him in a civil manner.

To me, it seems obvious that this is an overreaction, likely caused by the dopamine hit that Gmod admins get when they hand out bans.

The escalation to immediate bans has caused the server more harm than good, as now there are people missing from RP for essentially a nonissue that wasnt even reported, and the appeal managers now have to deal with the headache of sorting through this situation.

Again. I'd really like to see the admins treat active members of the community better than giving them surprise bans over something that happened IC. I don't disagree with the rule being put in place. I disagree with the unneeded and extreme reaction to ban over this. There's clearly no good faith if the admins aren't willing to approach anyone in a civil manner before handing out a ban.

 

[Deleted member 418]

I still fail to see how this situation couldn't have been handled with a simple warning. Searching through logs with the intention of banning legit RPers and active members of the community seems ridiculous. It's not like we're dealing with a troll who has NITRP. Dusty is a legit RP'er who wouldn't have repeated the word had a member of staff approached him in a civil manner.

To me, it seems obvious that this is an overreaction, likely caused by the dopamine hit that Gmod admins get when they hand out bans.

The escalation to immediate bans has caused the server more harm than good, as now there are people missing from RP for essentially a nonissue that wasnt even reported, and the appeal managers now have to deal with the headache of sorting through this situation.

Again. I'd really like to see the admins treat active members of the community better than giving them surprise bans over something that happened IC. I don't disagree with the rule being put in place. I disagree with the unneeded and extreme reaction to ban over this. There's clearly no good faith if the admins aren't willing to approach anyone in a civil manner before handing out a ban.

Just looks like fishing for a reason to oust members for something that they had little control over.

 

[dusty]

I don't know what they said and to which extend; if it was just the F-word once

 

[HOKI]

someone make a breen voice ai read this

 

[JustWats]

The server has always been pretty clear on how derogatory conduct is to be portrayed. Before it was declared under the Offensive Roleplay caveat, where previously... The server operated under the guidance that moderated it. It was not to be used as an excuse to be overtly and unrealistically racist, prejudicial, or otherwise intolerant of other people. Nor used in a way to bypass OOC restrictions. This includes most slurs and offensive statements regarding homophobia.

Now, under the guise that players should be following the current rulesets... People should understand that players are playing the role of a character, not themselves. This is a world you choose to roleplay in, one that predominantly is from around the years of the early 2000s when
racial slurs, pejoratives, and offensive language deemed to qualify as phobias auxiliary to LGBTQ were much more prevalent. This means that the vocabulary portrayed by a character from that period should not be too outlandish if conducted to what's above. In the current ruleset, you are still permitted to portray this as long as it's not targeted or unrealistic.

Most communities consider the usage of pejorative language as offensive roleplay. The current ruleset for offensive roleplay allows players and staff to stop the roleplay at any time. All that needs to be done as a punishment when a player is being unrealistic is to be warned. If they're targetting players maliciously, sure ban them for a week or so. Second offense? Just remove them.

Willard is a melted pot community, with different cultures, societies, ideologies, and political understandings... If you aim to treat all players equally and mature. Then treat them like a normal person, ask them to stop, convene with them, direct message them to get their side, and make a complaint. When staff members circumvent that avenue of approach, you get a little bit of injustice which has been observed before when bans get issued before the rules properly reflect or enough due diligence has been gathered. You can't do that shit backward.

I understand that people come here to enjoy their time, relax, be creative, or escape from whatever. I understand the staff team wanting to promote a comfortable environment. Usually, in communities, you tailor what is allowed, and clearly, this community is not capable of being comfortable with that. Also keep in mind that this community is drastically immature as a whole and has no real understanding of language, linguistics, or how any of this shit works. What it surmounts is just trying to protect everyone as best as possible, which is not the incorrect thing to do.

The way that dusty utilized both statements is kind of indecipherable because there's zero context surrounding anything. I don't have access to view that because I'm not staff. Either way, I don't care, I'm an adult who doesn't get offended by meaningless words from a story that has zero application to me as a person. Pragmatically, if the community wants to set proper guidance. Then the server council needs to understand what qualifies as pejorative and inflammatory language, hate speech, vulgarities, expletives, and slurring. From what I perceive, nothing appears to be targeted, intentionally circumventing, or unrealistic.

It seems like the character dusty portrayed is just a cunt, and should be treated as one in-character.

 

[Orphan]

Catching… Not pitching..?

 

[nora]

Catching… Not pitching..?

I can't believe I stuck up for him, I feel like I've been stabbed in the heart.

 

[Imperator RAD-X]

Hiya,

I've had to deal with this whole aching situation yesterday which is what was part of the rules & regulations reform. Essentially put, I & Atle saw the incident and stepped in to rectify this situation but it appears that a left over was seen. So, allow me to explain - I'll keep it short and simple.

A few members of staff have been targeted by people actively trying to provoke them, same with other players. However, once people reach a certain point - they had gotten emotional and mixed up by these sensations who are part of that labelled community that is what LGBT is. We've been constantly dealing with players actively trying to troll / attack the server by doing this, and I don't blame them for having enough of it.

However.

Personally and professionally, to me, once we noticed the bans we had to quickly take action because we know this was not only incorrect reasonings for bans. I thought this issue was resolved yesterday but it turned out it wasn't after a quick intervention.

So, on behalf of the community, I'm sorry this happened.

I understand and support the need for community guidelines that foster inclusivity and respect. However, I believe it's essential to maintain consistency and transparency in enforcing these rules. Retroactively penalising actions that were permissible under the previous rule set raises concerns regarding fairness and due process.

The incident had me forced to rectify the regulations in needing to cover that avenue. It's no secret Willard has problems with this. Because we know there's a problem and has been for years (which bothers me).

Then the server council needs to understand what qualifies as pejorative and inflammatory language, hate speech, vulgarities, expletives, and slurring. From what I perceive, nothing appears to be targeted, intentionally circumventing, or unrealistic.

I disagree with the unneeded and extreme reaction to ban over this. There's clearly no good faith if the admins aren't willing to approach anyone in a civil manner before handing out a ban.

I understand these concerns, they are the same as mine. Not everyone in management is in agreement with each other on this issue despite the 24 hour grace period of talking it over. Slurs are categorised as part of offensive RP. I'd prefer people to play characters as they always are, though the community in general isn't exactly friendly toward it.

I'll look on replacing as much as I can to be pushed In-Character, since this is an ongoing process.

 

[Serhan]

We are sorry this happened to you, and ban might've been an excessive use of force: But IC racism, sexism and transphobia has rarely been used as a means to improve and set realistic interactions for roleplay, but almost always as vessels to either discriminate, offend and/or make irony of members of the LGBTQ+ community and the people of colour with the justification of "I did it in game bro!!!". As such, me and and the other members of the community are sensitive towards any and all transgressions in this regard.

I'd wager a part of the community has certain "statistical" prejudices against black people, and think "trans men are women wearing men's clothing, trans women are men in skirts" and I'm not taking risks interacting with them.

 

[Knight]

I don't think in 10+ years of RPing across Gmod, MMO's, or Discord text-based stuff have I ever seen such a hardline approach to restricting insults or one-off messages from players.

 

[Vadim]

tldr?