Open Letter To Community & Staff

[dusty]

I initiated this thread to foster an open dialogue and address the inherent unfairness I perceived in receiving this ban. It's now a mark on my record, unless it's rectified.

The collective input from everyone here has shed light on our shared sentiments regarding this issue.

Now, I respectfully request a thorough review of my appeal. Missing out on numerous IC events due to a significant misunderstanding strikes me as unjust.

 

[Zebra]

guys pls just dont say slurs its not that deep you can roleplay without needing to

Why should we restrict our creative writing paths for aggressive and antagonistic traits because someone who isnt even involved, and only is by needlessly combing logs, is put off by it?

 

[Tuki]

guys pls just dont say slurs its not that deep you can roleplay without needing to

Ultima you remain as part of the issue... As i have said before on my other post on the thread, you literally did target practice on random players by looking up certain words and abused your powers over it, people should be able to express themselves however they want. If you want to have a serious RP server, be serious, don't ban or warn people for saying stuff that is FITTING and that no one seems to mind. At best 10 people in the whole community seem to care so deeply about this. Allow people to do whatever they want with their writing, we are trying to have fun, some people do it in different ways.

 

[ultima]

Why should we restrict our creative writing paths for aggressive and antagonistic traits because someone who isnt even involved, and only is by needlessly combing logs, is put off by it?

aggressive and antagonistic doesn't have to be slurs you know that right

Ultima you remain as part of the issue... As i have said before on my other post on the thread, you literally did target practice on random players by looking up certain words and abused your powers over it, people should be able to express themselves however they want. If you want to have a serious RP server, be serious, don't ban or warn people for saying stuff that is FITTING and that no one seems to mind. At best 10 people in the whole community seem to care so deeply about this.

call it whatever you want but we have rules and those rules dictate that you expressing yourself should not cross lines

 

[Tuki]

aggressive and antagonistic doesn't have to be slurs you know that right

And yet it can be, and if they want it to be they should be allowed to.

 

[Curbalas]

guys pls just dont say slurs its not that deep you can roleplay without needing to

In a realistic scene, which what Willard uses for its scene. These slurs occur, in the modern day and in the old days, there really isn't anything to do about it since it is all IC, some people like to roleplay antagonistically, some people like to roleplay passively, it should be their choice no?

 

[ultima]

In a realistic scene, which what Willard uses for its scene. These slurs occur, in the modern day and in the old days, there really isn't anything to do about it since it is all IC, some people like to roleplay antagonistically, some people like to roleplay passively, it should be their choice no?

ok but we still have control over our characters actions, just don't spam offensive slurs

 

[Tuki]

ok but we still have control over our characters actions, just don't spam offensive slurs

And we have not, but don't warn and ban people for saying them if they have no ill intent OOC towards it. Let them portray their characters however they want if people don't have an issue with it. The only one that seems to be against this is You, neonity and M!NT at this point, everyone else seems to like the idea we have and i'm still confused on why you seem to outright hate it.

EDIT: IT IS A GAME don't take it so damn seriously, enjoy it, have fun. If people want to say a few slurs, let them be!

 

[Curbalas]

ok but we still have control over our characters actions, just don't spam offensive slurs

I really don't think anybody is spamming offensive slurs, and if they are doing that ICly that could be counted as NITRP, since it is quite unneeded.

But slurs sometimes happens in roleplay, as long as they have no OOC motive it should be fine...

 

[Zebra]

I initiated this thread to foster an open dialogue and address the inherent unfairness I perceived in receiving this ban. It's now a mark on my record, unless it's rectified.

The collective input from everyone here has shed light on our shared sentiments regarding this issue.

Now, I respectfully request a thorough review of my appeal. Missing out on numerous IC events due to a significant misunderstanding strikes me as unjust.

Were you spamming slurs? Trying to push any irl beliefs and prejudices onto players?

 

[dusty]

ok but we still have control over our characters actions, just don't spam offensive slurs

You miss the entire point. Look at what I posted previously. I did not 'spam' slurs and the fact that you're saying such indicates that you haven't even read this thread.

 

[dusty]

Were you spamming slurs? Trying to push any irl beliefs and prejudices onto players?

I was not.

 

[JustWats]

aggressive and antagonistic doesn't have to be slurs you know that right


call it whatever you want but we have rules and those rules dictate that you expressing yourself should not cross lines

Where does a contextless ctrl+F in logs count as crossing the line. The rules specifically dictate how this is to be handled. This scenario didn’t circulate what is written for the policy and guidelines whatsoever.

 

[Zebra]

I was not.

Okay so I guess this was entirely unprovoked as it appears

 

[Senor Sauce]

guys pls just dont say slurs its not that deep you can roleplay without needing to

I've been just reading through this, but I'm genuinely curious what brings you to this opinion. I understand people can be inflammatory just because it's allowed. If someone walks up to your [race] character, and goes, "you're a dirty fucking [race slur] haha [race slur] [race slur] [race slur] [race slur] [race slur] kys cuz you're a [race slur]", then obviously that person isn't trying to take it seriously. That person should just be banned and not given a second chance. That shouldn't even be taking into consideration in this conversation, IMHO.

However, Vortigaunt racism/species-ism and ethnic discrimination is deeply intertwined into Willard RP. Now being racist against for example, black people, at a large scale and put into the politics of the server can feel low effort and miserable to RP with, as it feels like discrimination is just implemented to have bigotry. I actually have no issue with any of this implementation at a political level, as I think all of the discrimination feels natural and well established through other means, not just race or ethnicity or skin color.

At a smaller scale though, especially as a slummer, in a realistic setting you WILL deal with people who hate you simply because of your looks. It doesn't always have to be racism or sexism; I've seen characters be excluded because they said they had X scar or Y feature (like too big of a nose) and be discriminated for that. It's the nature of human interaction, there is a very large percentage of people who just hate because they are angry, and because they just CAN. That is amplified by the nature of being oppressed, as well.

My point is; discrimination adds a flavor of distastefulness to a character, or a way to elicit emotion from the victim of it. Yes, it can be used improperly. But if we are allowing any discrimination of characters, why stop at race, because it's taboo? I find that a disingenuous way to allow for roleplay, chiefly based off of the fact that Willard prides itself on player interaction and agency within those interactions. If someone is abusing that privilege, I am on board with removing them from the community. But as a way to enhance roleplay using unpleasant techniques? I genuinely would like to understand why you're against it.

Looking forward to your response and further discussion.

 

[Neonity]

It’s a gross misuse of administrative systems. That’s all I have to say on the matter.

No. The logs system is implemented in a way that allows and encourages members of staff to monitor and check incidents from days, weeks, and months past. A lot of members of staff use it in this way, and they're supposed to. Not every rule break or infraction gets reported, which can be for a variety of reasons. That's understandable, as players can see even less than staff can.

A rulebreak happening with not enough people to see it does not suddenly make it no longer against the rules. Staff monitors logs, looks for common keywords, and takes action on various situations as they can see they hadn't been handled before. It's pretty common for a variety of staff members to do this for stuff like the n-word for instance, and ban a user for saying it. Even if it happened days ago. This isn't a misuse of administrative systems, it's what they were literally designed for.

 

[ultima]

I've been just reading through this, but I'm genuinely curious what brings you to this opinion. I understand people can be inflammatory just because it's allowed. If someone walks up to your [race] character, and goes, "you're a dirty fucking [race slur] haha [race slur] [race slur] [race slur] [race slur] [race slur] kys cuz you're a [race slur]", then obviously that person isn't trying to take it seriously. That person should just be banned and not given a second chance. That shouldn't even be taking into consideration in this conversation, IMHO.

However, Vortigaunt racism/species-ism and ethnic discrimination is deeply intertwined into Willard RP. Now being racist against for example, black people, at a large scale and put into the politics of the server can feel low effort and miserable to RP with, as it feels like discrimination is just implemented to have bigotry. I actually have no issue with any of this implementation at a political level, as I think all of the discrimination feels natural and well established through other means, not just race or ethnicity or skin color.

At a smaller scale though, especially as a slummer, in a realistic setting you WILL deal with people who hate you simply because of your looks. It doesn't always have to be racism or sexism; I've seen characters be excluded because they said they had X scar or Y feature (like too big of a nose) and be discriminated for that. It's the nature of human interaction, there is a very large percentage of people who just hate because they are angry, and because they just CAN. That is amplified by the nature of being oppressed, as well.

My point is; discrimination adds a flavor of distastefulness to a character, or a way to elicit emotion from the victim of it. Yes, it can be used improperly. But if we are allowing any discrimination of characters, why stop at race, because it's taboo? I find that a disingenuous way to allow for roleplay, chiefly based off of the fact that Willard prides itself on player interaction and agency within those interactions. If someone is abusing that privilege, I am on board with removing them from the community. But as a way to enhance roleplay using unpleasant techniques? I genuinely would like to understand why you're against it.

Looking forward to your response and further discussion.

guys pls i didnt say that u cant do xyz just dont say the f and n word thats kinda the whole point < thats what i mean by slurs (and other synonyms)
most of these bans were something along the line of this:

u can be discriminatory and rude to ppl etc just be mindful of the words you say considering that even if its serious rp we're all still people behind the computer screens and some people like using video games as an escape from hate and the last thing we want is to bring that here under the guise of roleplay
i didnt ban dusty, though i still believe what he said was not good his ban was toned down to a warning (keep in mind it was only 1 day)
tldr: you can portray a character as racist and evil IC without spewing hateful words, the server isn't an outlet for hate speech

 

[dusty]

Where does a contextless ctrl+F in logs count as crossing the line. The rules specifically dictate how this is to be handled. This scenario didn’t circulate what is written for the policy and guidelines whatsoever.​

​

I'm interpreting these rules based on their written language, but shouldn't that count for something? Under those rules, how is what happened to me fair? At no time did anyone attempt to contact me regarding the two instances I used the word. So, I have to ask, how does my ban align with the principle of ensuring fun and fairness for all players without resorting to drastic measures? Or, how does it align with the notion of maintaining high standards of roleplay and fairness to other players?


This thread wasn't about defending the content of my characters' speech; it's about shedding light on the absurdity of the situation and fostering a mature dialogue around it. I commend the majority of the community for their maturity in handling this discussion. However, I must express my disappointment with how you've conducted yourself in this thread, Ultima. It underscores the systemic issues within this community. It's now abundantly clear that there's little room for free thought within the staff team, as evidenced by the willingness to ban someone for embarking on their RP journey, regardless of their character's disposition.

No. The logs system is implemented in a way that allows and encourages members of staff to monitor and check incidents from days, weeks, and months past. A lot of members of staff use it in this way, and they're supposed to. Not every rule break or infraction gets reported, which can be for a variety of reasons. That's understandable, as players can see even less than staff can.

A rulebreak happening with not enough people to see it does not suddenly make it no longer against the rules. Staff monitors logs, looks for common keywords, and takes action on various situations as they can see they hadn't been handled before. It's pretty common for a variety of staff members to do this for stuff like the n-word for instance, and ban a user for saying it. Even if it happened days ago. This isn't a misuse of administrative systems, it's what they were literally designed for.

The expectation of "maturity" and "respect" should extend to how administrative actions are conducted. Retroactively banning players for infractions that were not previously addressed undermines the trust and fairness within the community. While I acknowledge the importance of maintaining a respectful and cooperative atmosphere, I believe there should be a balance between enforcing rules and ensuring transparency and fairness in the process.

Enforcing rules retrospectively without clear communication or warning does not align with the principle of "common courtesy." It's essential to maintain open communication and ensure that all members of the community understand the rules and the consequences of their actions.

In summary, while I appreciate the need to address rule violations, I believe that retroactive punishment without clear communication or warning erodes trust within the community and undermines the principles of fairness and transparency outlined in the rules.

guys pls i didnt say that u cant do xyz just dont say the f and n word thats kinda the whole point < thats what i mean by slurs (and other synonyms)
most of these bans were something along the line of this:
View attachment 30814
u can be discriminatory and rude to ppl etc just be mindful of the words you say considering that even if its serious rp we're all still people behind the computer screens and some people like using video games as an escape from hate and the last thing we want is to bring that here under the guise of roleplay
i didnt ban dusty, though i still believe what he said was not good his ban was toned down to a warning (keep in mind it was only 3 days)
tldr: you can portray a character as racist and evil IC without spewing hateful words, the server isn't an outlet for hate speech

I want to clarify that the screenshot provided does not involve any of my characters. I just wanted to make sure there is no confusion about my involvement in the situation being discussed.

 

[ClapTrap]

There are plenty of cases in literature where use of slurs and other visceral language drive home a pivotal root message that can be explicitly anti-homophobia and otherwise. It is insanely important for authors and writers in general to use this type of language to highlight issues, insults, and other hardships that these targeted minority groups tend to struggle with.

That being said...

The Garry's Mod community, ESPECIALLY the serious roleplay community, has been notorious for abusing these slurs in a derogatory fashion in the past. Homophobia and blatant racism plagued many forums, chats, and in-game activity back in the day, and even though it's drastically improved from what it once was, it's still a very present issue.

Though I don't support a total banning on use the words, I think it's appropriate to very heavily moderate anybody using that sort of language, because frankly, I don't trust most of the people in Garry's Mod when they use it. I've simply seen too many individuals that have used that language, not coincidentally, reveal themselves to be homophobic/racist/etc OOCly.

 

[dusty]

i still believe what he said was not good

You believe what who said 'was not good'? Just clarify for the thread please.