Ultima's bad faith report

[ultima]

Hey.
This entire report turned into a massive personal attack towards me from everyone on the server that doesn't like me. I won't respond to you.
I've stepped down from my position as a Rank Leader as it seems I'm not qualified for it, but I'll still respond and explain my reasoning for what happened.

Talia, first I want to tell you that your character was not supposed to exist at that point in time, as they had been PK'ed, You were un-pk'ed for reasons unknown to me, but due to extreme exhaustion and burnout I seem to have forgotten that I was told to re-pk you.

In any case, the situation still happened. So I will explain my reasoning for this PK.
First, I want to reiterate that during code black tensions are as high as ever, and any insubordination is simply seen as treason of the highest order. OCIN is down, you could have been a rebel in a officer uniform for all I know (icly that is) That is why I treated everyone as a potential rogue during this, as there is not a lot stopping anyone from gunning my Rank Leader down.
I was fairly tired during this situation, I haven't really been able to sleep so some of my points during your questioning weren't as concise as I would have liked.

I saw you take the elevator down as I was there, sitting right below you, your character acted with entitlement towards mine from our first interaction. I grabbed a command unit and brought you in for some questioning, asked you about what happened, you brought up a command unit, I told that command unit to report, he talked about an entire different scenario with you which was different from what I was talking to you about, so you were already on thin ice from there on.

You said you shot someone at the terminal that was inside the CZ from behind the forcefield gate on the catwalks. This made me raise an eyebrow, as I'm going to show that this is physically impossible (as I went to check out for myself in character)
From this picture, which is behind the said forcefield, you can see that there is no way you could have done so without going into PCS-3.
Now, after asking you around for a bit more, you changed the location. Suddenly, it's not behind your said "gate", but on the catwalks above.
Keeping in mind that I didn't hear the biolock or the door be opened that is right beside the elevator.

Here.
So, at this point I actually felt like I may have been wrong, and I allowed you to show me where exactly you shot from. I wanted to be sure that I was completely right in this.

This small gap is the only visible part of the CZ from the catwalk which you showed me. (Which is also obstructed by part of the geometry)

I can't fit it in an entire picture, but here I've traced a rope from up there, to the spot that you are able to see in question. This small pixel, from which you apparently opened fire upon on a man with a pickaxe who was beating on the terminal.
It just seems extremely fishy and outright impossible from your side of things especially with a revolver for which you claimed you shot twice, and hit both times, which from the sound of the gunfire was correct.
And if we're going by your un-pk. You had already been caught by OTA in PCS-3 by yourself once, so I was not inclined to believe you at all.
I want to say, I'd never go out of my way to end a unit's life over something like this, had they given me a good reason. I gave you a lot of chances to lie to my character or tell them the truth, I was genuine when I told you that being truthful meant I'd let you go. You had all the options here.
There (was) an explicit ban on anyone going into PCS-3 without a command unit around. I've since lifted all restrictions as it seems it was fairly unpopular, I'd only wish someone had actually brought it up before now instead of on an abuse thread.


Thanks.

 

[Taliazure]

Hey.
This entire report turned into a massive personal attack towards me from everyone on the server that doesn't like me. I won't respond to you.
I've stepped down from my position as a Rank Leader as it seems I'm not qualified for it, but I'll still respond and explain my reasoning for what happened.

Talia, first I want to tell you that your character was not supposed to exist at that point in time, as they had been PK'ed, You were un-pk'ed for reasons unknown to me, but due to extreme exhaustion and burnout I seem to have forgotten that I was told to re-pk you.

In any case, the situation still happened. So I will explain my reasoning for this PK.
First, I want to reiterate that during code black tensions are as high as ever, and any insubordination is simply seen as treason of the highest order. OCIN is down, you could have been a rebel in a officer uniform for all I know (icly that is) That is why I treated everyone as a potential rogue during this, as there is not a lot stopping anyone from gunning my Rank Leader down.
I was fairly tired during this situation, I haven't really been able to sleep so some of my points during your questioning weren't as concise as I would have liked.

I saw you take the elevator down as I was there, sitting right below you, your character acted with entitlement towards mine from our first interaction. I grabbed a command unit and brought you in for some questioning, asked you about what happened, you brought up a command unit, I told that command unit to report, he talked about an entire different scenario with you which was different from what I was talking to you about, so you were already on thin ice from there on.

You said you shot someone at the terminal that was inside the CZ from behind the forcefield gate on the catwalks. This made me raise an eyebrow, as I'm going to show that this is physically impossible (as I went to check out for myself in character)View attachment 31936
From this picture, which is behind the said forcefield, you can see that there is no way you could have done so without going into PCS-3.
Now, after asking you around for a bit more, you changed the location. Suddenly, it's not behind your said "gate", but on the catwalks above.
Keeping in mind that I didn't hear the biolock or the door be opened that is right beside the elevator.
View attachment 31937
Here.
So, at this point I actually felt like I may have been wrong, and I allowed you to show me where exactly you shot from. I wanted to be sure that I was completely right in this.
View attachment 31938
This small gap is the only visible part of the CZ from the catwalk which you showed me. (Which is also obstructed by part of the geometry)
View attachment 31939
I can't fit it in an entire picture, but here I've traced a rope from up there, to the spot that you are able to see in question. This small pixel, from which you apparently opened fire upon on a man with a pickaxe who was beating on the terminal.
It just seems extremely fishy and outright impossible from your side of things especially with a revolver for which you claimed you shot twice, and hit both times, which from the sound of the gunfire was correct.
And if we're going by your un-pk. You had already been caught by OTA in PCS-3 by yourself once, so I was not inclined to believe you at all.
I want to say, I'd never go out of my way to end a unit's life over something like this, had they given me a good reason. I gave you a lot of chances to lie to my character or tell them the truth, I was genuine when I told you that being truthful meant I'd let you go. You had all the options here.
There (was) an explicit ban on anyone going into PCS-3 without a command unit around. I've since lifted all restrictions as it seems it was fairly unpopular, I'd only wish someone had actually brought it up before now instead of on an abuse thread.


Thanks.

If you crouch in Tha position you can see the terminal as I told your character.
"get low and you can see the terminal full of blood".
From where you can see someone's feet of they are standing in front of the terminal and yes you can land a shot from that far with the revolver as it's a precise weapon with little to no spread per shot.

Me and the other unit both agreed on being on the ground floor together, the other unit claimed to not have seen me past the gate and sides with me. To wich you ignored and continued to press my character, not only that but little to about a minute into the interrogation you ordered the unit to shoot me on the spot. Your objective was to pk my character, I'm sorry but the intention is clear with how you behaved. You didn't rp shooting me you whipped your gun and mowed mte down on the spot, slaying me and pking me. Your looc talk alter shows that you are Glad my character is gone and that you knew oocly where my character was, ao I ask how can we trust you with this situation if you hold ooc information that will inflict on your judgment. Despite the fact my character proved it's innocence and the unit sided with my character you were still pressing me into giving up the truth when you oocly knew the truth but not icly. Clearly mixing the two.

You claim you "tried not to metagame"
Try? Excuse me, you are a staff member of this community ultima, you aren't supposed to "try", You shouldn't metagame. And with you knowing that you had a clear advantage over the situation by knowing oocly where I fired upon you still chose to interact with the situation as opposed to handing it over to someone else. Your intentions where clear and your judgment was poor.
As a staff member you should know that you shouldn't let ooc mix with ic information.
And as for the situation regarding my other pk it was voided and my character stayed away from pcs-3 the only time I stepped out into there was to fire upon that person's feet to sacre them away. The entire time my character was patrolling back and forth on the cataalks above the Plaza, where a gm is able to bakc me up as there was a game master playing as a headcrab whom i engaged.


So why did you continue to press my character when their innocence was established.
Even the other unit claimed to be confused on what you were stating after they sided with me.
This situation should not have happened.

 

[ultima]

I didn't let OOC mix with IC. A comment in LOOC to another staff member taken out of context isn't everything. "Try" Puts me in a bad spot, I wasn't metagaming. I admit, I was relieved that you left because of your tendency to take things over the top, especially when it comes to your conduct on the server.

You claim you "tried not to metagame"
Try? Excuse me, you are a staff member of this community ultima, you aren't supposed to "try", You shouldn't metagame. And with you knowing that you had a clear advantage over the situation by knowing oocly where I fired upon you still chose to interact with the situation as opposed to handing it over to someone else. Your intentions where clear and your judgment was poor.

I explained to you all my reasoning for everything and it should clear it up that this wasn't malicious, In those same logs I say that I'm disappointed because I know you can do better if you actually tried.

And as for the situation regarding my other pk it was voided and my character stayed away from pcs-3 the only time I stepped out into there was to fire upon that person's feet to sacre them away. The entire time my character was patrolling back and forth on the cataalks above the Plaza, where a gm is able to bakc me up as there was a game master playing as a headcrab whom i engaged.

Your PK was not voided. I was told by RAD-X himself to PK you once I'm able to. I had just forgotten as you didn't get on the server again until last night.
Also, you're contradicting yourself. You said you shot him in the back.

You also said that you were on the "gate", never did you say you were up on the CPRD catwalk until the end

 

[Taliazure]

I didn't let OOC mix with IC. A comment in LOOC to another staff member taken out of context isn't everything. "Try" Puts me in a bad spot, I wasn't metagaming. I admit, I was relieved that you left because of your tendency to take things over the top, especially when it comes to your conduct on the server.

I explained to you all my reasoning for everything and it should clear it up that this wasn't malicious, In those same logs I say that I'm disappointed because I know you can do better if you actually tried.

View attachment 31940

Your PK was not voided. I was told by RAD-X himself to PK you once I'm able to. I had just forgotten as you didn't get on the server again until last night.
Also, you're contradicting yourself. You said you shot him in the back.
View attachment 31943
You also said that you were on the "gate", never did you say you were up on the CPRD catwalk until the end
View attachment 31945

My pk was a demotion, my character was to be shot and demoted one rank below but it was reversed for "resisting ota" when my character did not resist ota. I was told it was a miscommunication and I would be unpkd and refunded.
And yes I'm not going to shoot someone in the back with the revolver with can deal 40 damage a shot for hitting a terminal. My purpose wasnt to kill them njut to scare them away, my character couldn't know if they hit the person or not from that afar icly, icly you don't have a text telling you how much damage you did to someone. Thus I aimed for the persons leg while they had their back to me. You can still hit someone in the back from up there if you step back enough so it is still valid. You can see the screen on the terminal and don't forget you can zoom with your cp suit allowing you to ligj up a proper shot.

I claimed I spotted the individual through the gate, when you asked That you can't shoot form the without being past the gate I said yes you can and showed you that by running up there to the cprd you can get a shot into the terminal cz.
I could've ran up and then shot from up there wich would be the most logical conclusion.
And I'm sorry but being tired doesn't excuse you from malicious intent. And you were told to demote me not pk me again, but you went out of your way for a pk.
Yet not a minute into the interrogation you ere already ordering my execution based on suspicion. Your goal was clear ultima.

And I also am disappointed in this situation.

 

[ultima]

My pk was a demotion, my character was to be shot and demoted one rank below but it was reversed for "resisting ota" when my character did not resist ota. I was told it was a miscommunication and I would be unpkd and refunded.
And yes I'm not going to shoot someone in the back with the revolver with can deal 40 damage a shot for hitting a terminal. My purpose wasnt to kill them njut to scare them away, my character couldn't know if they hit the person or not from that afar icly, icly you don't have a text telling you how much damage you did to someone. Thus I aimed for the persons leg while they had their back to me. You can still hit someone in the back from up there if you step back enough so it is still valid. You can see the screen on the terminal and don't forget you can zoom with your cp suit allowing you to ligj up a proper shot.

I claimed I spotted the individual through the gate, when you asked That you can't shoot form the without being past the gate I said yes you can and showed you that by running up there to the cprd you can get a shot into the terminal cz.
I could've ran up and then shot from up there wich would be the most logical conclusion.
And I'm sorry but being tired doesn't excuse you from malicious intent. And you were told to demote me not pk me again, but you went out of your way for a pk.

And I also am disappointed in this situation.

There seems to be a clear line in the middle here from what is actual truth and what was the lie that you attempted to tell my RL which you are continuing to tell on the thread. I'd rather not go in circles for this as it's just confusing everyone even more on what is fact and what is fantasy considering the constant contradictions. I've explained my reasoning.

My pk was a demotion, my character was to be shot and demoted one rank below but it was reversed for "resisting ota" when my character did not resist ota. I was told it was a miscommunication and I would be unpkd and refunded.

And that communication issue was cleared up once more above that as me and ozzie made it clear to RAD-X, so. You are supposed to be PK'ed.
I think I'm done responding to this thread now as we seem to be going in circles. You can have your character back as a resolution to this if that's what you want,

 

[M!NT]

Right. We've spent some time and looked into all the information we have available at present and we've come to a consensus on the matters accused in this abuse situation between @Taliazure and @ultima

This boils down to two things, which I will address now.

1. Metagame
   1. I don't think @ultima metagamed here. Yes, he did go into observer for a brief period. I got on and pulled location logs. At the time he went in observer for 10 seconds @Taliazure 's unit was up on the CPRD catwalks. I don't think that could have had any impact on this scenario.
   2. @ultima 's unit had plenty of evidence to support this. For starters, your unit had been caught for doing this just recently. That scenario was not voided as you claim. I don't believe this was communicated to you, so I apologize for the confusion here.
   3. @Taliazure's unit proceeded to change her story, and present two different impossible positions to @ultima 's RL.
   4. Given ROLLER-41 stated plainly which terminal it was (the one near the CZ), and brought @ultima's RL to the catwalks to show them where she shot from. It'd be painfully obvious that shooting at the terminal from those angles is nearly impossible (unless you line it up ever so perfectly..) and that the unit must have been in the forbidden area of PCS-3 to shoot at someone standing in front of the terminal in question.
   5. Taking the above points in consideration, there isn't enough substance here to prove that a brief usage of observer prior resulted in any metagame in this scenario.
2. Bad Faith
   1. @ultima 's RL had quite a few options for @Taliazure 's character which dont' result in a PK. Deranking, blackmarking, fines, and any other combination of things could've been used here.
   2. @ultima 's RL decided to just open fire on @Taliazure 's unit and PK her on the spot after it became clear she was lying.
   3. @ultima proceeded to then vent in LOOC about how he was "glad she was gone for real now", which just shows clear bad faith on his end.
   4. I think that there is clear evidence to support this PK being in bad faith, given all the points above.

With all that said, community management has come to a decision on how we'll be resolving this situation.

Because of this incident, and some other recent issues, @ultima will be getting a formal warning in vyhub for bad faith RP, and he will suspended for two weeks. If any other cases of bad faith come up after he returns then, it will result in a full on removal and a ban.

As for @Taliazure 's unit, we consider it best for her fate to be left up to the CP faction leads. She may reach out to @ClapTrap or @Ozzekiel about what will happen next. I would expect a blackmark, a deranking, or any other combination of punishments. A PK for her earlier actions may still be on the table though. I'll leave the specifics up to them, as it's their faction.

With that said, I'll be marking this abuse thread as accepted and locking it.