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[V3] Character Backgrounds / Traits

M!NT

Village Elder
GALUNGA
Joined
Apr 13, 2020
Messages
479
I feel like our current system, while more in-depth than most HL2RP servers, is still severely lacking when it comes to building an interesting character. You point buy whatever attributes you would like, which are more or less permanent and mostly influence skills. Then from there you can point buy a few skills, and pick a background. This background depends on the faction (Citizen, Vortigaunt, etc) and has various buffs or debuffs, most of which influence social credits and/or vortessence, as well as what items you get when you spawn.

This system lacks depth, and it doesn't really do much to help you construct a compelling character. We need something more compelling. This is where a new background and traits system comes in.

Because this system changes the core of your character, and removes the old backgrounds system, it would be a major pain in the ass to make without requiring a character wipe first. That's why I'm marking this as a potential willard V3 feature.

This system will reform backgrounds to make them more customizable to a specific character, and assist people with getting started.
  1. Select your background:
    1. This works in a similar way to how the backgrounds currently work. You select one from a dropdown (instead of a list).
    2. Behind the scenes, this of course sets up various things (like items you will spawn with, which spawn point you will spawn at, social credits, and so on)
    3. It also dictates which ideals and flaws will be generated for your character.
  2. Roll your character's ideals:
    1. You will click and the system will pick from a large list of ideals. Each character gets 2 ideals.
    2. You can keep rerolling until you get one that suits what you have in mind for your character.
  3. Roll your character's flaws.
    1. This works in the same way as ideals.

1711836153404.png
It will look something like this really basic outline above ^^

This is essentially character traits, similar to what you have in other RPGs, and its also shamelessly stolen from DND 5e. I think its a great mechanic and I would like to see it used to great effect on willard. It could be very flexible and we could make lots of them for each faction (Citizens, CPs, Vorts, CCA, etc.)

Your traits will be visible at all times in your character menu (I don't have a mockup for this presently).

As for the purpose of this thread- feel free to discuss what you think such a system should look like. :cool:
 
Anything that improves the backgrounds is good, honestly.

For anyone who isn't a first starter, the current system is just "What items/how much SC do you want to start with?". Sure, it can help get a basic idea going, but if you're making a character that will, for example, main loyalism, you're basically forcing yourself to grind longer if you pick anything but the "Loyalist" background, which starts you with free Social Credits.

Really, backgrounds and items should be separate. In the case of the former, more depth would always be nice, like choosing which city you came from as a relocatee, or what charges forced you to end up as an underclass. Something to help build an actual background and possibly even include the stuff in your profile's general notes (ever noticed how everything besides relocatee still says you "moved to district at [date of creation]", when you should've been living there for a while already?)

As for the traits/flaws idea, it will need to be updatable due to on-server character development. Whether the feature itself is a good thing or a bad thing is really hypothetical, at least for me, and depends on what you expect out of the usual willardstanian.

P.S. ADD BALD PEOPLE.
 
  1. It also dictates which ideals and flaws will be generated for your character.

  1. You will click and the system will pick from a large list of ideals.

Thinking practically here, I feel like anytime anyone first makes a character, you know exactly what that character is going to be, at least in broad strokes. Good RP'ers will leave room for massive deviation due to events well beyond the startup screen, but even then, its still well beyond the startup. Due to this, I question if this would really be good for anyone, as you'll just be fighting with the dropdown menu to get what you want - which is whatever you thought the character to be before hitting these drop down menus.

An old server I played did have traits, but they were just general personality orbs that you could view from the tab menu or whatever. Things like social, anti-social, kind or opportunistic etc. I feel like if you were to do something with traits that would be more useful and effective. Since it would ultimately just be a way for you to have a measuring block to keep your character consistent against.

But even then, could argue its just not needed.
 
I think having a list of dropdown list of cities, like some HL2RPs do, to have a pre-set relocated from city would be cool.
The city your character comes from is something you'd have to think of upon creation, and not as an afterthought just whenever someone asks.
 
I think this could be fun, what if some (but not all) ideals and flaws would add stuff to your datafile?

For example, if my character's flaw is that he has shown anti-combine sentiment in the past, that could be logged on the datafile, this would have an impact if I ever wanted to have the character become a loyalist and would serve as a pretty big problem for me. Perhaps to even things out, if I pick this anti-combine flaw, I get boosts to anti-civil skills like smuggling.

I just think it would be neat for flaws and ideals to be more than just stat buffs and debuffs.
 
Instead of just flaws and ideals, we could have it be a list of "traits" that players can pick (like the traits from the fallout games). These traits are optional, but have both positive and negative effects that can effect a number of different things. here are a few examples:

Skilled: You start with more skill points in all of your stats, but you gain experience slower.

Gifted: You start with more stat points, but you won't get as many points to put into your skills when making your character

Outcast: You start with low SC and a note on your datafile stating that you have shown anti-civil behavior in the past, but you start with more points in "Anti-civil" skills, like melee, guns, and smuggling.

Echelon graduate: You never experienced the world before the Combine took over, you were taken from your family as a child and were raised as part of the "Echelon" program, a "school" operated by the Combine to prepare the final generation for life in the Combine empire. You start with more SC and a note on your datafile indicating your history in Echelon, but your sheltered upbringing has greatly reduced your starting skills, and reduced your starting stat points by one. You are only able to make your character a Young adult.

Industrial worker: You were a worker in a highly polluted industrial city, the time you spent doing hard labour has increased your strength and crafting abilities, but your exposure to the pollution has damaged your lungs, lowering your agility and speed.

These probobly arent balanced very well, but you get the idea.
 
I feel like we should add more skills and traits to the mix rather than only 'Strength, Perception, Intelligence and Agilty'. There are many situations where you could realistically roll something else and it would be fun to see.

For example:
Speechcraft

Major boost to smuggling
Minor boost to crafting
Stealth

Major boost to speed
Minor boost to medicine


Furthermore, I'd like to see a 'trait' system like Zeropants describe, but I'd use it different rather than using the flaws/ideals system you proposed Mint.

1711897240846.png1711897633694.png
Maybe something like the system in Disco Elysium and Project Zomboid. Where you have skills which you can use to put extra points in certain stats, and can put flaws in to gain extra points.

For example, you can sprint less/have less stamina, that can get you 3 points, you put those 3 points to do more damage with your fists. So you do 10 damage instead of 5 via a trait.
 
Someone will have to explain to me how this doesn't just end up outlining a more hardline limitation on the character background we make. This stuff mostly just applies to active gameplay elements such as S2K or script hunting, which while apart of the game, isn't going to be its majority even for its most avid practitioners.

The reason zomboids system works for Zomboid is because its gameplay focused, and gameplay is the entire bread and butter of that experience. The reason Disco Elysium's skills work is because its a tightly woven, single-player experience, where rolls determine everything.

With Willard, alot of what we do is basically isolated from the game itself. /me's exist because its us constantly doing something the game doesn't technically support, as an example of what I mean. This means, outside of rolling which plenty of people don't really like, there's no way to directly influence this non-encoded systems or interactions.

I mentioned it above too, but I also think that as soon as you start adding 'boxes' or 'drop down menus' it becomes a limitation for character creation, not a boon. No matter how big and comically long you make that drop-down, there's going to be some detail or some unspoken parcel of experience that doesn't quite have it click. Even now, with the system we have, most people just put points into what gives them the ideal skills.

Some characters that RP as incredibly dull may have five int. simply because they also wanted to be a competent doctor.

In my mind, as I am seeing this now, if we really wanted to expand on this system, we'd be better off going for a simpler passive 'trait' system as told above. Or featuring some kind of psyche profile you setup on your characters creation, that is then able to be displayed on your Citizen Profile in-game?

I get the hype behind an idea like this, but I pragmatically just cant see how it would be implemented without impacting character creativity.
 
Even now, with the system we have, most people just put points into what gives them the ideal skills.

Some characters that RP as incredibly dull may have five int. simply because they also wanted to be a competent doctor.
There is pretty much no reason not to always go with 5 INT and 3 AG, putting points into strength or perception isnt worth it because you gain less overall bonus skill points.

Intelligence and Agility both have a major boost for one skill each, and minor boost for two skills each. In comparison, Strength and perception have a major boost for one skill each, and a minor boost for one skill each, so it isn't really worth it. Plus, the main skill that is boosted by strength and perception, guns, won't be used by most players anyways, so there isn't any point in wasting stat points on STR and PER.

Plus, even though we have a melee skill, none of the stats even boost it at all.

TL;DR

Right now the optimal way to make your character is 5 INT and 3 AG, you are losing out on skill points by picking any other option. So if you want to make your character different than everyone else, you are actively losing out on skill points. I think this is a pretty big problem.
 
There is pretty much no reason not to always go with 5 INT and 3 AG, putting points into strength or perception isnt worth it because you gain less overall bonus skill points.

Intelligence and Agility both have a major boost for one skill each, and minor boost for two skills each. In comparison, Strength and perception have a major boost for one skill each, and a minor boost for one skill each, so it isn't really worth it. Plus, the main skill that is boosted by strength and perception, guns, won't be used by most players anyways, so there isn't any point in wasting stat points on STR and PER.

Plus, even though we have a melee skill, none of the stats even boost it at all.

TL;DR

Right now the optimal way to make your character is 5 INT and 3 AG, you are losing out on skill points by picking any other option. So if you want to make your character different than everyone else, you are actively losing out on skill points. I think this is a pretty big problem.
Actually, the meta is 5 strength because all S2RP combat scenarios inevitably devolve to using rolls to facilitate roleplay as a crutch, which is how you legally powergame in-character and win all fights.
 
Thinking practically here, I feel like anytime anyone first makes a character, you know exactly what that character is going to be, at least in broad strokes. Good RP'ers will leave room for massive deviation due to events well beyond the startup screen, but even then, its still well beyond the startup. Due to this, I question if this would really be good for anyone, as you'll just be fighting with the dropdown menu to get what you want - which is whatever you thought the character to be before hitting these drop down menus.
I think people like you, and me have a good idea on the character they're creating right at the creation screen. However, I think a lot of people don't. That's why I consider such a system to be a net positive. If you've got some HL2RP vet who knows exactly what kind of character they want to make, then they can select the traits that best align with that character and move on. If you're new to the gamemode, it can really help guide you make a character if you're undecided on what to do.

This ties into one thing I think we really need to improve with V3: onboarding & new player experience.

Imagine joining the server for the first time as a new player. It'd be very difficult to get a grasp on what exactly the point of the gamemode is and what you should do as the player. A system like this will help explain to someone that they're making a character that they are the author of, which is not themselves, and that they're one character in a sea of thousands.

For new players- it is so much better to have something like this rather than just getting a one sentence blurb about their background and being dumped into the trainstation.
For experienced players- they can set up the character to fit what they have in mind, and deviate as they see fit.

I think this could be fun, what if some (but not all) ideals and flaws would add stuff to your datafile?
Instead of just flaws and ideals, we could have it be a list of "traits" that players can pick (like the traits from the fallout games). These traits are optional, but have both positive and negative effects that can effect a number of different things. here are a few examples:
Maybe something like the system in Disco Elysium and Project Zomboid. Where you have skills which you can use to put extra points in certain stats, and can put flaws in to gain extra points.

For example, you can sprint less/have less stamina, that can get you 3 points, you put those 3 points to do more damage with your fists. So you do 10 damage instead of 5 via a trait.
Yeah, thats what I've got in mind as well. However, I don't really like the 'point buy' kind of system that these games have. I want to find something in the middle. Thats why I think we do something like this instead:

Background - Can select your background, and for certain backgrounds you can select things like the city you're transferring from or whatever.

Characteristics - A list of options you can select which give you certain bonuses. You can select two.

Traits - A list of character-centered traits which are all RP-oriented (have no impact on skills) that you can select two of.

1711947231040.png
The system will use these things to generate a small biography for you to read and can be read in the F1 menu. It can also generate datapad entries to suit the background you've selected here.
 
View attachment 33250
The system will use these things to generate a small biography for you to read and can be read in the F1 menu. It can also generate datapad entries to suit the background you've selected here.
I like this, I have a few suggestions that could be interesting.

For the biography, we could have it formatted like a datafile, written from the perspective of Dispatch. This way the biography can be displayed on the datafile for other players to read, and having the biography written perspective of dispatch allows players to fill in the blanks of the story, the Combine doesn't know everything about the player's background, only the important details.

We shouldn't write players' backgrounds for them, just give them a starting point so they can fill in the blanks later on. We should only be writing the parts the combine know about them.

Background ideas:

Background name: Citizen
Description: A default background, pretty much just the same as the relocated citizen background, good for starting out, but it doesn't have anything special about it.
Positives: None
Negatives: None
Datafile additions: None

Background name: Loyalist
Description: You have been careful to not do anything that could break any of the rules set out by the Combine, the reasons you do this are your own. Your adherence to the Combine's laws has increased your social credit score, but because you haven't taken any risks, you haven't learned anything new, and you do not start with any skill points.
Positives: Bonus 10 starting SC
Negatives: You do not start with any skill points during character creation
Datafile additions: None

Background name: Echelon Graduate
Description: You were born just a few years before the Combine activated the suppression field in 2006, you never experienced the old world. You were taken from your parents and were raised in the ECHELON program, a schooling system put in place by the combine to educate the last generation of humanity. Your Combine education has increased your social credit by a decent amount and a note has been added to your datafile about your past in the Echelon program, this note may help you in the future. Due to your sheltered upbringing and lack of experience in the real world, you start with one less stat point and no starting skills.
Positives: 20 bonus starting SC, a note on your datafile indicating you were part of the Echelon program.
Negatives: You start with one less stat point and no starting skill points during character creation.
Datafile additions: "Individual has been processed through the ECHELON program and has been integrated into the civic population on (date of character creation)"

Background name: Military Veteran
Description: You were once part of your country's military, however, your advanced age forced you into retirement before the resonance cascade occurred. When the Combine invaded you saw as your country's military forces slowly begin to slowly disappear, you are one of the few remaining members of your country's military. You experienced a lot during your military career, giving you more skill points to start with, but your body isn't as good as it used to be due to your advanced age, reducing your starting stat points by 2.
Positives: You start with 30 bonus skill points to allocate during character creation.
Negatives: You start with 2 less stat points to allocate during character creation, you also have a note on your datafile indicating your history with the old-world military.
Datafile additions: "Individual was once a member of now decommissioned human miltary forces. Individual was retired from military service before the liberation of Earth. Due to the subject's advanced age, they are not suited for transhumanization and have been integrated into the citizen population until the date they become incapable of performing civic duties. Note; Subject may still harbor loyalties to the old world, further investigation into the subject's loyalties may be required."

Background name: Outcast
Description: You have been cast out from civilized society for one reason or another. You have lived a rough life in the slums, eating whatever bits of food you can scavenge. Even though you are an outcast from Combine society, you may still be able to make up for your mistakes by somehow proving your loyalty to the Combine. You have been hardened by the struggles you faced living in the slums, increasing your starting stat points by one, but your bad history with the Combine has reduced your Social credit score by 10.
Positives: You start with one extra stat point to allocate during character creation.
Negatives: You start with 10 fewer Social Credits, and you also have a note on your datefile stating you have displayed anti-civil behavior.
Datafile additions: "Individual has displayed anti-civil tendencies, further display of such tendencies should be met with severe punishment."

Background name: Anti-citizen
Description: You were declared an anti-citizen by the Combine and fled to the hostile outlands. You managed to survive in the outlands where most normal people would have perished. The struggles you faced in the outlands have hardened you, increasing your starting stat points by five points! You have decided to return to the city for one reason or another, however, you must take care not to be discovered by the Combine, if you are found, you will be killed as a result of your anti-citizen status.
Positives: You start with five extra stat points to allocate during character creation.
Negatives: You are marked as an anti-citizen and you will be killed if you are found by the Combine.
Datafile additions: "Individual has been deemed a threat to socio-stability. If discovered, the subject is to be apprehended and processed appropriately."

Background name: Medical background
Description: You have some sort of history in the medical field, and your medical skills may prove useful in this chaotic new world. Because of your medical training, you start with 10 extra points in your medical skill and a note on your datafile indicating you have a medical background. Sadly, because you were primarily focused on your medical career, you have one less stat point to allocate during character creation.
Positives: You start with 10 extra stat points in the medical skill, you also have a note on your datafile indicating your medical background, this note could help you get certain jobs in the future.
Negatives: You start with one less stat point to allocate during character creation.
Datafile additions: "Individual is known to possess medical knowledge that could prove beneficial to medical unions, protection units are advised to monitor this individual to ensure this knowledge isn't used to assist any anti-civil groups."

Background name: Industrial worker
Description: You worked in a highly polluted industrial district within one of the many Combine cities. The years of hard labor have made you three points stronger and more 10 points more knowledgeable when it comes to crafting, but the pollution in the industrial district has damaged your lungs permanently, reducing your agility by one point and preventing you from leveling up your speed skill ever again.
Positives: You start with 3 bonus points in your strength stat, and 10 bonus points in your crafting skill.
Negatives: Your lungs are permanently damaged from industrial pollution, your agility is reduced by one, and you cannot level up your speed skill ever again.
Datafile additions: "Individual is suffering from an asthma-like condition caused by industrial pollution and may require continued medical treatments from the CMRU."

There are many more background concepts we can make, these are just examples. We should provide players with a pretty big number of backgrounds they can pick from. The backgrounds shouldn't just be stat changes, but the backgrounds should have other important effects that actually have an impact.

For example, a player that picks the medical background will have the datafile note that indicates they have medical experience, if other players read this note, it could help them get a job in the CMRU. Another example is the outcast background, players start with better stats, but the note on the datafile will make it more difficult to get jobs in the different Combine groups.

I'd like to know everyone thoughts on other things we could have the backgrounds effect asides from just the stats, skills, and datafiles. What background ideas do you have?

Age-specific backgrounds:

Depending on what age you make your character, different backgrounds will be available to you, making your character a young adult would allow you to pick the Echelon graduate background, while making your character an elder would allow you to pick a retired military veteran background.
 
Background name: Loyalist
Description: You have been careful to not do anything that could break any of the rules set out by the Combine, the reasons you do this are your own. Your adherence to the Combine's laws has increased your social credit score, but because you haven't taken any risks, you haven't learned anything new, and you do not start with any skill points.
Positives: Bonus 10 starting SC
Negatives: You do not start with any skill points during character creation
Datafile additions: None

Background name: Echelon Graduate
Description: You were born just a few years before the Combine activated the suppression field in 2006, you never experienced the old world. You were taken from your parents and were raised in the ECHELON program, a schooling system put in place by the combine to educate the last generation of humanity. Your Combine education has increased your social credit by a decent amount and a note has been added to your datafile about your past in the Echelon program, this note may help you in the future. Due to your sheltered upbringing and lack of experience in the real world, you start with one less stat point and no starting skills.
Positives: 20 bonus starting SC, a note on your datafile indicating you were part of the Echelon program.
Negatives: You start with one less stat point and no starting skill points during character creation.
Datafile additions: "Individual has been processed through the ECHELON program and has been integrated into the civic population on (date of character creation)"
These two are really unbalanced... 10 SC aren't that hard to get, really. Not worth losing 10 skills or 10 skills and 1 attribute

Background name: Outcast
Description: You have been cast out from civilized society for one reason or another. You have lived a rough life in the slums, eating whatever bits of food you can scavenge. Even though you are an outcast from Combine society, you may still be able to make up for your mistakes by somehow proving your loyalty to the Combine. You have been hardened by the struggles you faced living in the slums, increasing your starting stat points by one, but your bad history with the Combine has reduced your Social credit score by 10.
Positives: You start with one extra stat point to allocate during character creation.
Negatives: You start with 10 fewer Social Credits, and you also have a note on your datefile stating you have displayed anti-civil behavior.
Datafile additions: "Individual has displayed anti-civil tendencies, further display of such tendencies should be met with severe punishment."

Background name: Anti-citizen
Description: You were declared an anti-citizen by the Combine and fled to the hostile outlands. You managed to survive in the outlands where most normal people would have perished. The struggles you faced in the outlands have hardened you, increasing your starting stat points by five points! You have decided to return to the city for one reason or another, however, you must take care not to be discovered by the Combine, if you are found, you will be killed as a result of your anti-citizen status.
Positives: You start with five extra stat points to allocate during character creation.
Negatives: You are marked as an anti-citizen and you will be killed if you are found by the Combine.
Datafile additions: "Individual has been deemed a threat to socio-stability. If discovered, the subject is to be apprehended and processed appropriately."
These two, contrary to the others are overpowered, as even though you are an anti-citizen, it just feels like a way for people to create throwaways to use for S2RP with just a single click (I create an anti-citizen character with +10 strength and go attack a CP with melee that I can craft in 2 seconds)
 
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