Implemented Business and DoP Reforms - A suggestion

[TheDeNuke]

The Department of Production is the most critical faction on the server (for keeping the city environment realistic), however I've felt that its failed at its duty of providing a adequate supply of open businesses by focusing on a system which is effectively gate-keeping (limiting businesses to specific owners). This must stop as soon as possible and I'm suggesting a alternative system of business "ownership" in this thread which should allow the city to remain as "busy" as possible:

1. Each business is "owned" by the Combine, but they hire/nominate a individual to formally "manage" the business which is only limited to how the business is themed.
2. This individual has full control over the theme and has priority for owning the shop when online.
3. However, when the individual is offline then someone can literally walk in at any time (so long as the primary individual is not online) and effectively "hijack" the business and sell whatever they want out of it so long as they hold a business permit.
4. If the nominee has not done anything with the business for two weeks or is LOA then he/she is kicked out and replaced by the person who actually focused on operating the business.

With the above concept it should be possible to always ensure that the businesses on the map are always open if enough effort is taken on the part of the DoP to give out business licenses.

The second part is OOC rules. Now, these were removed by Robert since we had concluded that restricting rogues is a extremely poor idea on the part of a faction which is citizen-focused. Unfortunantly it seems that continued misbehavior on the part of the DOP has caused the return of these rules. So, I agree that some restrictions should be added. They just must be somewhat more loose then the previous rules to prevent them from restricting the freedoms of roleplay by players in the DOP. They are the following (with removals crossed out and changes in bold):

1. You may not go rouge without informing the Faction Lead <- Forcing people to ask for auth will cause bias and gatekeeping. However, the FL must be informed.
   1. This means you cannot give rebels items.
   2. This applies to credits as well, do not supply the rebels with them.
   3. If you are found doing this without informing the FL you will be instantly blacklisted, the economy is sacred and you will not harm it.
2. Corruption is allowed, but only for self gain and not in any way that will harm the economy, you may for example shove, kick or slap someone you dislike.
3. Mugging:
   1. When being mugged you are not allowed to drop the following items:
      1. CA PDA.
      2. PDA.
      3. Locks you may be carrying
   2. The reason why is simple: Such items should not be added to the circulation of the populace and it just creates a waste of space in storage or someone just dumping it on the floor due to the code not allowing them to use it anyway.
4. Scamming is not allowed.
5. Do not open up forcefields randomly for your friends or anyone else, do not open rations, do not open random locks around the map. this will get you blacklisted.
6. Do not give business licenses unless the person's application has been accepted, note their occupation when giving a business license.
7. Do not host work shifts that don't make sense, you are working under the union, any work-cycle you host has been approved by great minds.
8. Do not enter RB-6 when there are no CPs present.
9. Breaking server rules regardless of the situations connection to the branch may render you kicked out of the faction, this applies to business owners as well.

 

[Equinox]

This is exactly what I was thinking and going to get around suggesting. It seems the primary (and only real) issue with businesses is that, due to individual ownership, they suffer from not being able to function should that person be offline. This seems like a good fix for it.

 

[razan]

@HonourableArthur I kind of like this idea. It would definitely help shop activity, can you look into something like this?

 

[Robert]

However, when the individual is offline then someone can literally walk in at any time (so long as the primary individual is not online) and effectively "hijack" the business and sell whatever they want out of it so long as they hold a permit to own a business by the combine (unspecified).

1 slight issue.

Since businesses are forced to keep stock, how does a hijacker plan to use the businesses goods to sell things? Also, this would be in direct conflict of the existing business owners as they only give their employees access to their storage containers and goods, meaning that someone taking over would need those passcodes or to break the locks off, which in turn would harm the manager's profits, effectively pissing that player off and the role of manager seeming worthless which means there is 0 benefit to being one.

This would force these business managers into a net profit loss, killing the role day 1. Whoever takes over will have to run all the way to the dispensers just to give someone a single item. Example, sitting in the RB-6 zone and running a store there. You as a hijacker have no access to the actual shop storage, so you are forced to run to the OTHER SIDE of the map, pick up whatever you need, run back and then sell... this also makes hijackers pointless as they are taking about 10 minutes to make 1 sale.

That is the one flaw I would like to point out. As no way is a manager going to want to keep a stock if a non-employee can effectively steal it and make a net loss.

 

[Robert]

That on top of the fact you need to find a way to gain a permit in the first place is well... not going to be easy.

 

[Armanis]

Im not sure how this would work in any way. Imagine someone takss time to create an idea of a bussiness, gets a spot, builds everything up (props, prices, some special mechanics like say the casino games etc.) and some random dude walks in, takes over the wheel without full understanding of the place. Makes a bad rep for the place IC , if performing poorly etc. plus what would you do if the original owner hops on? You tell him that you run this now? It all boils down to a simple thing - every store loses its unique spice , because anybody can walk in and start adjusting the barriers to their own liking, creating a mess in process.
If you find issues with a place being empty on certain times, that may be of time zone differences. Did you consider just applying to the store or workplace? For example place is run by europeans, so if you are from us im pretty sure they would hire you just for the bussiness to run

 

[Armanis]

In addition, the union owns all the bussinesses either way. Due to thr fact that they give you a place to work in and AFAIK you pay rent. Then again, you buy their produced supplies to run it and they have every right to close you. Simple enough

 

[razan]

Yeah, true, totally forgot about stock - big kill factor for this idea

 

[TheDeNuke]

Who cares about the reputation of the place IC? This is not a capitalist economy. Nobody gives a dammed about your reputation and all they care about ICly is not having the economy completely depressed by the virtue of every shop being closed the microsecond the server switches to the US Timezone like the Combine were enacting some sort of idiotic super-curfew.

Additionally, "unique spice" is pointless when the shop is once again entirely closed outside of the European Timezone.
Additionally, bought stock is done via the barter system and therefore does not need people directly buying stock from any individual.
Additionally and most importantly, nobody can apply to a shop when the owner of the shop is sleeping/not-online unless it were done OOCly and that just feels wrong on so many levels.

Finally, the idea that if original owner hops on: you immediatly stop owning the place. You are not the priority owner/nominee and therefore must resign in their favor.

 

[Robert]

Who cares about the reputation of the place IC? This is not a capitalist economy. Nobody gives a dammed about your reputation and all they care about ICly is not having the economy completely depressed by the virtue of every shop being closed the microsecond the server switches to the US Timezone like the Combine were enacting some sort of idiotic super-curfew.

Additionally, "unique spice" is pointless when the shop is once again entirely closed outside of the European Timezone.
Additionally, bought stock is done via the barter system and therefore does not need people directly buying stock from any individual.
Additionally and most importantly, nobody can apply to a shop when the owner of the shop is sleeping/not-online unless it were done OOCly and that just feels wrong on so many levels.

Finally, if the original owner hops on. You stop owning the place. You are not the priority owner/nominee and therefore must resign.

You can just do that with a new business type then.

Rather than kill off existing businesses with this idea, which is very easy to do so, you can create the idea of an "Open" business. A business specifically designed to allow this system, as not all business owners would like ANYONE to touch their store without the CCA having a darn good reason to step on their toes. Business owners were told day 1 they basically own and run the store, but this would mean basically turning around and saying "Hey, your have to allow random people to run your still now who you never employed" is like returning back to the old system and going "Oh yeah, remember when CWU ran the entire show...? That centralized structure? Yeah, that is pretty much back now but with some minor differences."

Open businesses can be run by anyone with a set theme that anyone can take given they have a permit. This business is not bound by a manager, just simply a store with no owner which anyone can run or take for however long they please to and operate it on their own. This allows anyone to effectively walk up to the DOP, requests permit, and begin a nice little store while the other big stores have all shut off. Keeping the eco moving in some sense. Of course, permits are still going to be your issue and it can't be avoided without giving them out willy nilly which should not happen, there has to be an actual process of getting a permit, otherwise rip eco as rebels will just switch to these businesses in hopes for a free license to abuse.

Now I will like to point out a few wrong things here...

Who cares about the reputation of the place IC? This is not a capitalist economy. Nobody gives a dammed about your reputation and all they care about ICly is not having the economy completely depressed by the virtue of every shop being closed the microsecond the server switches to the US Timezone like the Combine were enacting some sort of idiotic super-curfew.

The existing businesses do care about their rep. The most popular places gain the most customers. If some idiot runs it and they lose that rep, the customer base has just been killed and sabotage which is basically equal to raiding the store when the owner is offline. This is plain unfair to existing stores who more than likely will not be open to this idea. Though, we may be able to rid ourselves of a few of them now as the players who once ran them have quit the community. Some stores have been closed for 2-3+ days.

Additionally, "unique spice" is pointless when the shop is once again entirely closed outside of the European Timezone.

Some stores enjoy their current setup. Like that one store which is making thousands and thousands of credits and would rather not loss their stock nor profits over a single player in the US timezone ruining it all.

Additionally, bought stock is done via the barter system and therefore does not need people directly buying stock from any individual.

Actually... stores are forced to have a stock of their own to avoid running to the dispensers which takes 5 minutes to reach depending on where you are and the fact you can't run to them. Each store has stock at the back room, hence why they got loads of containers... to make sure they can keep selling without needing to run to the dispensers. These dispensers which the bartering system uses will never be placed inside a store, that would kill the idea which businesses like of keeping stock which in turn helps them to keep track of their profits and spending. They like their semi-capitalist setup and would rather not lose it.

So someone taking over is forced to use the stores stock... to the owners disdain OR... well spend:

You as a hijacker have no access to the actual shop storage, so you are forced to run to the OTHER SIDE of the map, pick up whatever you need, run back and then sell... this also makes hijackers pointless as they are taking about 10 minutes to make 1 sale.

Additionally and most importantly, nobody can apply to a shop when the owner of the shop is sleeping/not-online unless it were done OOCly and that just feels wrong on so many levels.

The existing stores, mostly EU atm. 1 or 2 US stores still somewhat running. DOP is also mostly EU, so hard to get a permit there. Maybe the open business setup I just mentioned above will help with this. They still need to go through a process, but more stores should be able to be setup which do not rely on any manager or owner. Just their own random setup with no need for keeping stock, loss of profits, taxes, etc.

 

[Madcombat]

You can just do that with a new business type then.

Rather than kill off existing businesses with this idea, which is very easy to do so, you can create the idea of an "Open" business. A business specifically designed to allow this system, as not all business owners would like ANYONE to touch their store without the CCA having a darn good reason to step on their toes. Business owners were told day 1 they basically own and run the store, but this would mean basically turning around and saying "Hey, your have to allow random people to run your still now who you never employed" is like returning back to the old system and going "Oh yeah, remember when CWU ran the entire show...? That centralized structure? Yeah, that is pretty much back now but with some minor differences."

Open businesses can be run by anyone with a set theme that anyone can take given they have a permit. This business is not bound by a manager, just simply a store with no owner which anyone can run or take for however long they please to and operate it on their own. This allows anyone to effectively walk up to the DOP, requests permit, and begin a nice little store while the other big stores have all shut off. Keeping the eco moving in some sense. Of course, permits are still going to be your issue and it can't be avoided without giving them out willy nilly which should not happen, there has to be an actual process of getting a permit, otherwise rip eco as rebels will just switch to these businesses in hopes for a free license to abuse.

Now I will like to point out a few wrong things here...

The existing businesses do care about their rep. The most popular places gain the most customers. If some idiot runs it and they lose that rep, the customer base has just been killed and sabotage which is basically equal to raiding the store when the owner is offline. This is plain unfair to existing stores who more than likely will not be open to this idea. Though, we may be able to rid ourselves of a few of them now as the players who once ran them have quit the community. Some stores have been closed for 2-3+ days.


Some stores enjoy their current setup. Like that one store which is making thousands and thousands of credits and would rather not loss their stock nor profits over a single player in the US timezone ruining it all.


Actually... stores are forced to have a stock of their own to avoid running to the dispensers which takes 5 minutes to reach depending on where you are and the fact you can't run to them. Each store has stock at the back room, hence why they got loads of containers... to make sure they can keep selling without needing to run to the dispensers. These dispensers which the bartering system uses will never be placed inside a store, that would kill the idea which businesses like of keeping stock which in turn helps them to keep track of their profits and spending. They like their semi-capitalist setup and would rather not lose it.

So someone taking over is forced to use the stores stock... to the owners disdain OR... well spend:



The existing stores, mostly EU atm. 1 or 2 US stores still somewhat running. DOP is also mostly EU, so hard to get a permit there. Maybe the open business setup I just mentioned above will help with this. They still need to go through a process, but more stores should be able to be setup which do not rely on any manager or owner. Just their own random setup with no need for keeping stock, loss of profits, taxes, etc.

Stop over complexifying a system that should be simple.

You have a problem, NA are fucked by your current system. The maps are limited by store count. You can't have your cake and eat it. I literally explained this in my CCC last week on server arrival.

I've already explained why the permit system is not ideal. I've already explained the fact the map is limited by store count. Let people just do their thing. If people do stupid shit, that's what admins are for.


I could make a huge post detailing why and what not but I've done it already in a previous CCC. Time to pull our heads out of the sand on this one.

 

[TheDeNuke]

Yeah.

Why even try to defend the current system when all its been doing is killing citizen roleplay? Something must be done. It does not have to be exactly what is mentioned on my OP but the present status quo must be broken as having literally no (or one) shops open during the NA timezone is unacceptable.

 

[Armanis]

Who cares about the reputation of the place IC?

The game circled about roleplay and characters - and still you manage to put this sentence in? Classic.

Additionally and most importantly, nobody can apply to a shop when the owner of the shop is sleeping/not-online unless it were done OOCly and that just feels wrong on so many levels.

thats what forums are made for baby, thats why every owner makes a forum tab about their bussiness, with tags about who is the owner and who is who.

Finally, the idea that if original owner hops on: you immediatly stop owning the place. You are not the priority owner/nominee and therefore must resign in their favor.

I love the idea of that in IC and OOC perspective. “Hey sir imma headout, im just acting like i run this joint and uh, cya”

Additionally, bought stock is done via the barter system and therefore does not need people directly buying stock from any individual.

the stock system is limited by the amount produced from the workshifts etc. you cant ass-pull unlimited amounts of items, which means if there would be more “shop owners” , there would be less stock left for everyone - eventually stores would just fight who buys shit first, just like good old day in soviet russia.

every shop being closed the microsecond the server switches to the US Timezone

This could be the case that nobody from the US player just bothered themselves with taking up a bussiness at the start? Or just didnt have an idea of what they wanted to do at the start, which kinda comes to come first , get served first

 

[Stevebot]

This could be the case that nobody from the US player just bothered themselves with taking up a bussiness at the start? Or just didnt have an idea of what they wanted to do at the start, which kinda comes to come first , get served first

Just applied not too long ago, hopefully being a NA player doesn't preclude me from running a stall. Be apart of the solution!

 

[Armanis]

Something must be done. It does not have to be exactly what is mentioned on my OP but the present status quo must be broken as having literally no (or one) shops open during the NA timezone is unacceptable.

This whole issue is the consequence of merging two different timezones into a single community. The staff or whoever was responsible for this IC bussiness issue should have thought about it long time ago. Its just a fault in the system at this point, a fault that would bring even more issues by trying to fix it

 

[TheDeNuke]

This whole issue is the consequence of merging two different timezones into a single community. The staff or whoever was responsible for this IC bussiness issue should have thought about it long time ago. Its just a fault in the system at this point, a fault that would bring even more issues by trying to fix it

Right now?

I don't really think its possible to fix since that would kick a lot of people out of their businesses and that never ends well. However...

Upon the inevitable map change?

That results in all the shops being vacant by default, so it should be possible to fix the issue without causing too many issues.