9/11 Junktown Raid // Thoughts, and Complaints.

[costco]

I want to speak about the 9/11 Junktown Raid. I'm not going to make a 14 paragraph essay about it, because I think it's incredibly stupid to do so, but I need to air my grievances.

Firstly, the reason it happened in the first place. From what I gather, an attempted shotcop from *one person* had occurred. I do think this is grounds for a raid on Junktown, however, rules were broken BY CPs. So, please tell me how the absolute FUCK rebels are punished in not only losing all of their equipment, but also being NLR'd to high hell. No RP, no PK, no ACTUAL finality. This just feels like a massive middle finger to people who were literally just sitting around roleplaying. The situation could have been voided, the rp could have continued, and instead we got our time wasted. What kind of fucking RP server takes S2K MORE seriously than RP? I am ashamed of this entire situation, and I hope you all do better.

Not only is this purely bias towards Civil Protection, but also a spit in the face for everyone who tried their hardest to get the gear they had. Me, for example. The entire time, I cooperated, expecting CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT to come out of it, instead, I was handed an NLR with no refund, literally the WORST decision that could have been made. Not only I, but multiple other people will likely be self-PKing, because going on with this weird blip in our memories is just wrong. As a player, a new player, I am disgusted by the lack of roleplay within this situation, thank you for reading my little complaint.

 

[Inspector Orlok]

Hi dubik here, not gonna say much cause i’m not part of the situation much. However this entire situation has kinda fucked over passive RP. The map is limited and soon there will be no place were we can gather and talk or do other rp


Not blaming everyone but simply adding my opinion.

I don’t believe this to be the case. There are a plethora of location to RP, including the slum. Civil protection, as Tengu mentioned, are a constant threat and entity we must be weary of, they may sweep without us knowing, thats the cost of living in the slum. To say there’s gonna be no room for rebel/slummer passiveRP is just incorrect. I’d know this because I own the motel, and I’ve had plenty of fun passive roleplaying in that place, and hopefully people have also had the same experience.

 

[dubik15]

I don’t believe this to be the case. There are a plethora of location to RP, including the slum. Civil protection, as Tengu mentioned, are a constant threat and entity we must be weary of, they may sweep without us knowing, thats the cost of living in the slum. To say there’s gonna be no room for rebel/slummer passiveRP is just incorrect. I’d know this because I own the motel, and I’ve had plenty of fun passive roleplaying in that place, and hopefully people have also had the same experience.

Slums is not a good place for rebel RP, previously on the C24 map the slums had one major problem, sweeps. If you want to coneuct any form of RP you should be ready to have a random sweep bust down your apartament door and arrest you. Or if you are BOL just arrested. As said previously I am not defending or attacking anyone in my post, I am simply making an observation that rebels seem to have less and less places to rp.


// i typed this on my phone so sorry if it’s hard to read //

 

[Doom Guy]

Slums is not a good place for rebel RP, previously on the C24 map the slums had one major problem, sweeps. If you want to coneuct any form of RP you should be ready to have a random sweep bust down your apartament door and arrest you. Or if you are BOL just arrested. As said previously I am not defending or attacking anyone in my post, I am simply making an observation that rebels seem to have less and less places to rp.

You know, I disagree. On C24, yes it was bad. really bad in fact, but on I24 its not that bad, I've seen maybe 1 sweep, and even then they're plenty of ways to avoid a sweep if one we're to come, lots of escapes into the sewers, lots of ways back into the city if you roll that way, Plus, Passive rebel RP is great in the slums, lots of good ways to recruit, roleplay with newer rebels or less fortunate rebels.

 

[NanCi_]

Guys lets go outside in the outlands (most hostile region on the server right now and has been warned by GMs to not be silly) and make a bar and continue RPing when, let me make a list of things :
>There is currently no longer a ceasefire and an ongoing war between combine and rebels
>Outpost 616 and the scrap camp both being destroyed
>OTA and even Synths being killed 1 day before and the same day as the CP attack.
>Someone shotcopped after causing the Sweep itself.
>The rot was also spreading

In fact this map is really fucking big. Motel Moscow wanted your involvement Dubik and you agreed yet you still wanted your business in hostile areas. I told others that we would buy out scouts around the slums so we would have overwatch of any sweeps of the slums yet you decided to roleplay in the hostile area. This is nobodies fault except yours. The shipyard , 616 and scrap town might be an RP hub but its not a meta base / safe haven so don't go in your little world and think otherwise.

Every man child whining about AC and BOL need to quiet down. One of our players were BOL'd and sat in the hotel for hours even with a drone flying around during the ceasefire and NOTHING HAPPENED. Stop making metabases / safe havens the norm , improve your RP skills and survival capabilities.

Slums is not a good place for rebel RP, previously on the C24 map the slums had one major problem, sweeps. If you want to coneuct any form of RP you should be ready to have a random sweep bust down your apartament door and arrest you. Or if you are BOL just arrested. As said previously I am not defending or attacking anyone in my post, I am simply making an observation that rebels seem to have less and less places to rp.


// i typed this on my phone so sorry if it’s hard to read //

I-24 slums is nearly 6 times the size of C24 and there were minimum sweeps during the 3-4 weeks due to the fear of dying as liberators owned the entire slums & sewers. Not even OTA wanted a piece of it in some cases.

 

[Genny]

I'm not a forum warrior so will keep it brief. The 'rebels' were NLR'd No Refunded as they were not the target of the sweep but still iniated with combat and lost their lives. Within the PK Policy there isn't a clear 'box' like the other stipulations but I will be adding on to it so it can be clearer. I am slightly confused why you're aruging for PKs, (people don't usually want that) but if you or yourself would like to be PK'd instead please just let the staff team know and it can be done for you.

Honestly, even I thought the rules were broken but, as Tengu said, they were not and everything was by the book. That's all from me.


@Genny
PK Manager, Willard Networks

 

[Robert]

I will make this as simple as possible as one of the Gms and PK managers have stated plainly that NLR no refund was the best and most suited outcome to what happened.

Let us summarize this to prevent my own yapping text walls:
- CPs were on a sweep due to some rebel who caused trouble (General timer was in effect)
- Eventually timer ends, CPs stroll through the beach
- Spot rebels in Junktown as I heard it is called
- Engage them because that is the only logical thing for them to do, they cannot ignore it by all means
- Rebels are downed, but since they are uninvolved in the sweep, it is NLR No refund per PK Policy
- CPs try to capture, but are told no as this would be a violation of the PK rules and policy as capturing subverts the uninvolved NLR rules.
- CPs go home, Rebels only suffer that NLR and no PK/Capture death.

I think that is the shortest version possible of it. There was no rulebreaks and everything is in line with policy- no fault to either side. And as a GM earlier mentioned, these areas are dangerous, there are no safe havens on the map so getting hit by a returning sweep is going to be natural.

 

[pite]

Slums is not a good place for rebel RP, previously on the C24 map the slums had one major problem, sweeps. If you want to coneuct any form of RP you should be ready to have a random sweep bust down your apartament door and arrest you. Or if you are BOL just arrested. As said previously I am not defending or attacking anyone in my post, I am simply making an observation that rebels seem to have less and less places to rp.


// i typed this on my phone so sorry if it’s hard to read //

Slums are a great place for RP with multiple social hubs made by players and GMs and it is definitely more safe than Outlands and Sewers/Beach or at least it should be that way. If anyone is looking for a safe environment for their character perhaps they should not be indulging in rebel activities in the first place. RPing as a rebel/slummer/criminal comes at a cost of being exposed to dangers.

People complain about no places for Rebels to RP at meanwhile they create their own hubs in the most dangerous areas and expect to be risk-free. There's literally 2+ more available spots for a business in Slums, 3 running hubs in the Slums for Underground characters to RP at, not to mention the potential and space for other venues to pop up, if the rebels were to take initiative and clear some of the rubble for example. But very few RP in the Slums, that's why it never happened.

I'm not saying don't hang around Outlands/Beach/Sewers, but expect sweeps and other dangers if you are going to.

 

[Janek]

Hello, I'm the person who lead the sweep and do apologize if this has caused any grief. But the reason for the sweep was not because of the earlier shotcopper but due to the fact we was tasked with ridding the rot within the sewers as it's started to grow and we are actively engaged with removing it.

I decided to follow the rot down further, see how and where it leads/ends. We had a look around and got engaged, which made us push the assault. We got shot at, we had no choice but to eliminate those who were actively trying to kill us. The decision further is out of my hands as I'm only stating my side of the story and awaiting for staff's final words on this.

Retreat wasn't an option, or was that out of the question due to universe stuff?

 

[costco]

I’ll state this. I was overly-emotional, though I do still hold the same opinion about the situation. I enjoy this server a lot, and the RP that comes with it. I felt I was done dirty, especially since I didn’t engage in any fighting, and was found crouching and hiding. When I was found, I did not resist, I did not fight back, and I simply stood and allowed the cop to take me. The staff sit completely destroyed my immersion, and made me fairly emotional. I apologize for any insults I threw in my original thread, but I do still think that it was handled wrongly. If Staff thinks that this was the right course of action, then so be it.

 

[LyingFox]

hello hello! I was one of the Mentors actually Assisting with NLR deaths and teleports.

lot's of people complained once again that it was low quality roleplay, unfair -- the likes.

---

I think the main issue here is that people get attached to scripts they have and characters they've made -- Which is reasonable, I personally lost a half-year character named Rick Ketterson by a quite simple death, and it sucks to lose a character or lose gear you've worked hard to maintain.

This is a reason why @nath1234567 and @Cocohop have Rebel Introductions, to relieve yourself off of the pain of losing a character or losing your scripts -- This system has greatly brought me back into Willard after losing my character and it genuinely works -- I suggest everyone give Rebel Introductions a try next time a large character of yours dies.


Everyone who died at the Docks got NLR'd versus the PK from the previous raid that got voided/refunded.
Keep in mind -- You don't need scripts to roleplay, even then - An NLR gives you the bonus of teaching yourself the NEEDS of what you need to bring on each trip, meaning if you lost your character or not NLR'd, not everything you had is gone.
There are also several B-M-D's throughout the map that you can interact with for jobs, chips or weapons/gear.



Also -- OTA seem EXTREMELY eager to deploy, which is reasonable.
Thing is, this is negatively impacting rebel players and roleplay, everytime a Shotcop happens, it should not result in ~5 OTA responding deep into the Slums without any clue of where or who the prime suspect is, given Unrest has just been lifted.

---

This is not me coming after anyone, from either sides, simply a statement of what I've viewed.
Cheers!

 

[MisterMysteryMan]

We should just host bi-weekly/monthly or even just weekly S2K events so we can get the bloodlust out of systems, and can focus on the roleplay aspect of Willards

 

[Eviction Notice]

My only real issue is that GMs actively influenced IC decisions through an OOC medium, aside from this it was played by the book.

The main comaint was 'non-characters' were sweeping, now you have actual characters sweeping.

 

[Janek]

It seems like a blatant disregard from Rebels towards possible or imminent danger. I radioed on the public frequency about manhack presence and possible sewer sweeps prior to the sweep itself, and even then I was paranoid as shit. Like, am I the only one getting an uncomfortable rush of adrenaline? The feeling of having to be on full alert, constantly tunnel-visioning, spontaneously weighing options and decisions by the slightest shit happening, i.e. manhacks or the sound of vocoders?

It is what made me flee and detach myself from the possible situation entirely. If others don't experience that, then I can see why shotcoppings and reckless engagements are commonplace.

 

[Acheif]

I'm happy with the situation; but from a players perspective

Nothing happens

Junktown gets bombed by hunter/chopper

Junktown left alone for a few hours

random shotcopper shoots once and flees. (In the city? iuno from where just what I understand))

junktown raid (We all get NLRED? Best outcome IMO beside stalkerization)

 

[MrTuki]

Its not so much an immunity as much as; where do you expect them to roleplay otherwise?

The outlands are not patrolled as much. Slums is not exactly looked at all that much by civpro and you have a gigantic hotel to RP in.

There is a full group of people managed by a vort that is trying to turn it into an RP hub.

If you want to turn the beach into a safe area? Or the outlands? Find ways to do it IC. Bomb nexus sewer entrances, close the big gate and keep tabs on it, have scouts, work around it. Dont just casually sit around without doing anything.

 

[MrTuki]

Hi dubik here, not gonna say much cause i’m not part of the situation much. However this entire situation has kinda fucked over passive RP. The map is limited and soon there will be no place were we can gather and talk or do other rp


Not blaming everyone but simply adding my opinion.

The map is not limited, and if you think that its because you have not explored it enough. Outlands is massive and places can be secured in it, the slums is gigantic too. Idk what you mean by limited.

 

[Atom]

Worst thing that happened on 9/11

 

[Astro]

Slums is not a good place for rebel RP, previously on the C24 map the slums had one major problem, sweeps. If you want to coneuct any form of RP you should be ready to have a random sweep bust down your apartament door and arrest you. Or if you are BOL just arrested. As said previously I am not defending or attacking anyone in my post, I am simply making an observation that rebels seem to have less and less places to rp.


// i typed this on my phone so sorry if it’s hard to read //

You are absolutely not strapped for space on this map.

Also, this map has been plunged into JW and even AJ (as far as I've heard) within the first few days. I do not know what you were expecting, but the Combine is going to respond in force; there is a reason why you do not want to be in their way when they "wake up".

You need to be hyper-vigilant if you are going to be in these restricted areas, especially during points of high tension. If not, and you get caught out, that is kinda your fault, isn't it?