Banned for "chip looping" - 76561199360057540

[Risvolto]

Steam Name:Risvolto
SteamID:STEAM_0:0:699895906

Name of the Admin you were banned by: Asimo
How long is the ban for?: 1 month
The reason you were banned?: "Excesive chip looping"
Why do you wish to be unbanned?: There is no rule that states we can't chiploop, it has been done in the past, and nothing has happened, and it has even been said that chip looping would be a thing for a high level of smuggling. As far as I knew, chip looping was allowed. As far as I knew, it was fully legal. I have a character using skills in crafting, medicine, and smuggling to sell materials for a higher price. If it isn't, it's ok, but there was no announcement that this was no longer allowed since the last chip loop... Seems rather unfair to get banned for 1 month for it.

There was 0 consideration for making an announcement specifying it was now not allowed, knowing it was a thing. Staff actively said it was NOT against the rules, and the ruleset was not changed or added anything regarding it after it was known to happen. There was nothing to make anyone believe it indeed WAS against the rules.
Do you have any picture or video evidence to support your reason?:





Given all the posts above, it's reasonable to think chip loops were not banned, since staff themselves kept saying it is not.

There has been no announcement saying it was now against the rules, and no one was banned for it previously... I stopped chip looping weeks ago, if not months. Banning people for this is absurd without previous warning, given it has been done before many times. and no warning was issued.

Were there any witnesses who can help in this appeal?: (List the steam and/or character names of them or tag them)

 

[Appeal Bot]

Ban Information

• Ban ID: 82b5edbc-91c2-434b-bdb8-10d2f8eb17d3
• Reason: Excessive chip looping | Appeal at https://willard.network/forums/wn/appeals-requests.27/
• Length: 30 days
• Date Banned: Fri Sep 15 2023 19:24:48 GMT 0000 (Coordinated Universal Time)
• Date Unbanned: Sun Oct 15 2023 19:24:48 GMT 0000 (Coordinated Universal Time)
• Banned By: 76561198077477334 (Furret No Furry Asimo)

 

[Risvolto]

 

[Gr4Ss]

Not aimed at Risvolto in specific, but will just jump to say it in this thread because some old things were brought up in this thread that I was involved in back in the day too.

There is a small difference with the explosive compound chip loop:

1. Total damage across everyone was in the order of tens of thousands chips. We're in hundreds of thousands now.
2. Only one in four smugglers sold the right items, and another one bought them. You had to wait for smuggler rotation.
3. Smugglers carried a lot less cash, limiting the damage if the right smuggler showed up.

We gave people a very strong warning about it and closed all chip loops. I believe for most it was their first and only offense. Either way, I believe it bears very little relevance, it happened a year and a half ago. Both the server, economy and resistance were in a different state back then.

Anyway, honestly, perfect example of the 'me, myself and I' attitude rebels have. They would ruin the entire rebel economy just as long as they benefit from it. Fuck the entire server and anyone else. People who cannot stop and wonder if what they are doing might actually be a bug and whether or not their profit from it might be hurting the server as a whole... I am not sure if they actually should be playing on our server. I don't know about other people, but honestly the first question I ask myself before doing something is: 'is this fun for everyone else too?' Because if the answer is no, why the fuck would they want me around to play with me?

Honestly, next time rebels pull shit like this, maybe they can consider us who have to clean up the fucking mess. In other words: good job everyone, you have finally managed to break the economy beyond repairing (it seems). I hope the collective you are proud of your (again, collective) victory, because everyone will get to suffer for it.

 

[Risvolto]

Not aimed at Risvolto in specific, but will just jump to say it in this thread because some old things were brought up in this thread that I was involved in back in the day too.

There is a small difference with the explosive compound chip loop:

1. Total damage across everyone was in the order of tens of thousands chips. We're in hundreds of thousands now.
2. Only one in four smugglers sold the right items, and another one bought them. You had to wait for smuggler rotation.
3. Smugglers carried a lot less cash, limiting the damage if the right smuggler showed up.

We gave people a very strong warning about it and closed all chip loops. I believe for most it was their first and only offense. Either way, I believe it bears very little relevance, it happened a year and a half ago. Both the server, economy and resistance were in a different state back then.

Anyway, honestly, perfect example of the 'me, myself and I' attitude rebels have. They would ruin the entire rebel economy just as long as they benefit from it. Fuck the entire server and anyone else. People who cannot stop and wonder if what they are doing might actually be a bug and whether or not their profit from it might be hurting the server as a whole... I am not sure if they actually should be playing on our server. I don't know about other people, but honestly the first question I ask myself before doing something is: 'is this fun for everyone else too?' Because if the answer is no, why the fuck would they want me around to play with me?

Honestly, next time rebels pull shit like this, maybe they can consider us who have to clean up the fucking mess. In other words: good job everyone, you have finally managed to break the economy beyond repairing (it seems). I hope the collective you are proud of your (again, collective) victory, because everyone will get to suffer for it.

I "looped" 5k chips which I used for RP and then stopped using the character after getting a refund on my main rebel(took months).

 

[Risvolto]

Still, it'd be as simple as making an announcement or something...

The last messages that can be seen regarding chip loops say that they are allowed.
Look up "chip loop" or "loop" on any willard discord. The last messages that show up are from staff saying that they're allowed and that they have used them, as the screenshots provided show.

 

[Risvolto]

 

[Robert]

Ran a query out of curiosity. It looks like over the last 60 days you have gained 212,034 and lost 124,514. This leaves your total net total at +87,520 chips in 60 days.
View attachment 26534
This query covers all of your characters.

There are two characters which make up the bulk of this though:
Maxwell Drake made 125,235 and lost 43,862 (+81,373)
Elena Rose made 86403, lost 80561 (+5,842)

So, it looks like you told us part of the story.

This query covers 60 days. Eight weeks, with the server down 2 days a week, that leaves 44 days. Which means Maxwell was, on average, receiving 2,846 chips, then spending 1k of that every day for two months. If you change that to a more realistic three days per week (24 days) then that is 5,218 gross, 1,827 spent, 3,390 profit per session on average.

Keep in mind Maxwell Drake was a BMD char for 53 of those 60 days, thus their profit margin was massive. Given the average income of active BMDs was a good 60-100k per month. Just pointing that out. Can also read my post here to explain that even the above stated amounts are minor: https://willard.network/forums/threads/gutsys-unban-appeal-76561197997237427.10875/post-84599

But yes, Maxwell Drake was a BMD character and thus had massive profits, given they were also the most active BMD and sole BMD really, meaning all the rebels fundings went through him.

 

[Risvolto]

Ran a query out of curiosity. It looks like over the last 60 days you have gained 212,034 and lost 124,514. This leaves your total net total at +87,520 chips in 60 days.
View attachment 26534
This query covers all of your characters.

There are two characters which make up the bulk of this though:
Maxwell Drake made 125,235 and lost 43,862 (+81,373)
Elena Rose made 86403, lost 80561 (+5,842)

So, it looks like you told us part of the story.

This query covers 60 days. Eight weeks, with the server down 2 days a week, that leaves 44 days. Which means Maxwell was, on average, receiving 2,846 chips, then spending 1k of that every day for two months. If you change that to a more realistic three days per week (24 days) then that is 5,218 gross, 1,827 spent, 3,390 profit per session on average.

I never got a single blood bag on maxwell drake. Go ahead and filter blood bag on maxwell drake. I dare you to find me selling a single blood bag on maxwell. You won't.
And as for Elena, if anything that only shows how the profits from the loops were the 5k I talked about. The rest was used on the materials to make the blood bags. I did not give a single chip to anyone else, so no, I did not "tell you part of the story". If anything, this confirms everything.

Oh, and summing to this, Maxwell is one of Apostles leads now and I have been recieving large sums of chips from members to fit on the hidden storage room which no one but the leads can access. I simply took the chips and put them in there. If you check my locker as maxwell drake the only chips I actually have to spend are 30k, which is usual in BMD standards...

Oh, and plus, even if you couldn't check if I had sold blood bags on maxwell drake or not, what you claim is 100% impossible given BMD's don't have 4k chips as you claim "per session"

 

[Risvolto]

So yes, The only reason I chip looped was because my refunds took months to get accepted and I did it within that timeframe. After that, I barely, if anything, played Elena Rose.
Sent the first one the 15th of august. They all got accepted the 9th of september

 

[Imperator RAD-X]

I never got a single blood bag on maxwell drake. Go ahead and filter blood bag on maxwell drake. I dare you to find me selling a single blood bag on maxwell. You won't.

Yo, dude. Just relax and take a breather. It's not a kind way to talk to someone who's trying to help.

Now just because we didn't put in "No exploiting" as a written piece of literature doesn't mean it is allowed to do on the server. Next up I'm going to be seeing myself writing the Holy Bible or the Quran as a means to talk about morality because people are thinking that's acceptable. That's a rule lawyer circumvention 101 and nobody should be reaching to that level of intrepidness as a defence.

I'd recommend not using 365 days out of date information as a measurement to say "the rules weren't broken by me". It's one way for people to not bother assisting and just end up shoving this into a rejection category.

 

[Risvolto]

Yo, dude. Just relax and take a breather. It's not a kind way to talk to someone who's trying to help.

Now just because we didn't put in "No exploiting" as a written piece of literature doesn't mean it is allowed to do on the server. Next up I'm going to be seeing myself writing the Holy Bible or the Quran as a means to talk about morality because people are thinking that's acceptable. That's a rule lawyer circumvention 101 and nobody should be reaching to that level of intrepidness as a defence.

I'd recommend not using 365 days out of date information as a measurement to say "the rules weren't broken by me". It's one way for people to not bother assisting and just end up shoving this into a rejection category.

I may have gotten a bit angrier than I should about it. My bad

 

[Imperator RAD-X]

I may have gotten a bit angrier than I should about it. My bad

I understand, it's difficult of a situation to be in. But we're figuring it out.

 

[M!NT]

Keep in mind Maxwell Drake was a BMD char for 53 of those 60 days, thus their profit margin was massive. Given the average income of active BMDs was a good 60-100k per month. Just pointing that out. Can also read my post here to explain that even the above stated amounts are minor: https://willard.network/forums/threads/gutsys-unban-appeal-76561197997237427.10875/post-84599

But yes, Maxwell Drake was a BMD character and thus had massive profits, given they were also the most active BMD and sole BMD really, meaning all the rebels fundings went through him.

Reasonable. Disregard then, post deleted.

 

[Risvolto]

my ban got upped an extra 2 months for being a part of a group for 2 days

 

[Risvolto]

joined the 9th
played the 9th and 10th, didn't play any other day that week. I was banned the 15th.

 

[Robert]

Ban reduced back down to 2 months, review and conversations are still in progress.

 

[Risvolto]

Ban reduced back down to 2 months, review and conversations are still in progress.

ban was 1 month at first
Plus, how exactly did I "lie to staff"?

 

[Risvolto]

"Lying to staff" is a lie, and I continue to be slandered for things I don't even get a chance to defend myself of.
I said I made 5k on profit. @M!NT confirmed it himself on his post. Yes, I sold 800 bloodbags, but that does not mean it's profit. As M!NT showed, I gained 86403 chips, which equals to 864 blood bags, but then lost 80561, so the profit is what I claimed to be. 5000 chips.

 

[Cengiz]

Hello @Risvolto

I will be taking care of your Ban Appeal. First of all, the Staff Team has seen your Ban Appeal, and we have agreed to ACCEPT your Appeal. Your Ban is going to be REDUCED from 2 month to 3 Weeks. ( You will still need serve your Ban for 3 Weeks )