Implemented Businesses

[AdamCF]

tl;dr at the top here: Copy nebulous w/ some improvements


Here’s how I think business purchasing should work:


-Every store on the map has its location, size (a number from 1 to 5, chosen by DOP heads for each store), and a number. Each stall also has a number, although does not have a size rating.

-Businesses cost an upfront cost, usually a multiple of their small weekly rent.

-The rent is paid each multiple of 7 days after a business is purchased to the time it's put up for sale again. If a business is bought at 7:36pm GMT on Tuesday the 10th, the weekly rent must be paid by midnight GMT on Tuesday the 17th. Weekly rent may be paid three days in advance by any store employee. It may not be paid any more in advance. This prevents you from paying multiple weeks' rents at once, then becoming inactive and having your store stay.

-If rent is not paid, the store goes up for sale. All employees will lose their jobs, and all items will be seized. These items will be able to be purchased back within 72 hours of seizure. The cost to purchase them back will be something like 2x the store location's price. If not bought back, the lockers will be destroyed.

-If the store owner goes missing or is presumed dead, the store's ownership is handed onto one of their employees who is then responsible for their rent. Missing rent due to the owner's disappearance is not a valid excuse, and will result in the business being lost. This is not the case if the owner is found to be an anti-citizen. If this happens, DOP will be informed and the business will be thoroughly searched before all items are seized and the business goes up for purchase.

-There will be a complaints system. This could be to report suspicious activity (warranting a search), unsafe activity, or anything seen as generally "wrong" for a business.

-The process of buying a business involves no bidding. Bidding/auctioning off a store location is a terrible idea. It means the richest people will always get the store. I believe in giving everyone a fair chance, which my system does. Instead, here's how businesses work:

~The public spreadsheet shows that Store 4 is unowned. It costs 150 credits to purchase, with 40 credits weekly rent.​

~You go to the city hall, you're the first one there. You tell the receptionist that you'd like to buy Store 4.​

~They check the spreadsheet, confirming that it's available.​

~She checks your CID and ensures you don't already own a business.​

~You fill out your details, store name, store location, and any employees.​

~You then pay for the store's upfront cost with the DOP worker's POS terminal​

~You are then given your own POS terminal, a safe to keep this POS terminal in, and a business permit which will be revoked upon losing your business.​

~The date of purchasing your business, and the details of when rent is next due, will be on a spreadsheet.​

~You're a business owner​

​

​

-All business details will be public on a spreadsheet, sort of how it is now. The following details will be on there for everyone to see: Store/Stall numbers (which are represented with numbers on the store ingame), Store/Stall buying prices, rent prices, owners, all employees of every store, when rent is due, if rent is paid, which employees are in possession of a business license (highlighted in yellow)


Note: There are no applications. The only exception is if an employee (not the owner) wants to apply for a business permit for whatever reason. Stores are not applied for, they are purchased and paid for weekly.





The old post in case I missed anything


-Every business location is on a spreadsheet, stores and stalls numbered
-Depending on their size and location, businesses require a weekly payment which can be paid a maximum of three days in advance, and by any registered employee
-All employees are registered
-If the weekly payment isn’t put forward, all items in the business are seized and can be claimed back within three days
-All locker passwords are shared in a secure spreadsheet accessible only by upper-DOP. This is to prevent hoarding of illegal items and to log seized goods
-When weekly payments aren’t met, the store is put up for sale.
-Sales are first come, first serve
-Payments must be made by midnight GMT IRL time
-If the owner of a store dies, the business may be taken over by an employee
-If the store owner is instead found to be an anti-citizen and fully rebels against the combine, the store can not be taken over and will be placed for sale at midnight.
-Businesses, owners, employees, whether or not rent has been paid, and when renewal is due will all be publicly available.

 

[Equinox]

tl;dr at the top here: Copy nebulous w/ some improvements


Here’s how I think business purchasing should work:
-Every business location is on a spreadsheet, stores and stalls numbered
-Depending on their size and location, businesses require a weekly payment which can be paid a maximum of three days in advance, and by any registered employee
-All employees are registered
-If the weekly payment isn’t put forward, all items in the business are seized and can be claimed back within three days
-All locker passwords are shared in a secure spreadsheet accessible only by upper-DOP. This is to prevent hoarding of illegal items and to log seized goods
-When weekly payments aren’t met, the store is put up for sale.
-Sales are first come, first serve
-Payments must be made by midnight GMT IRL time
-If the owner of a store dies, the business may be taken over by an employee
-If the store owner is instead found to be an anti-citizen and fully rebels against the combine, the store can not be taken over and will be placed for sale at midnight.
-Businesses, owners, employees, whether or not rent has been paid, and when renewal is due will all be publicly avaliable.

Can you elaborate how this helps roleplay or the current issue of unoccupied stores?

 

[AdamCF]

Can you elaborate how this helps roleplay or the current issue of unoccupied stores?

Unoccupied stores wouldn’t be a thing after a week as the payment would’ve been missed, causing the store location to free up for a new owner. And, I can see issues coming up that this system would fix. It’s better to fix them now than wait until all stores on the server are inactive and everyone’s fucked off to the sewers. Although that’s kind of already happened

 

[hawke]

Business permits should expire (via in-game mechanics) and need to be renewed after a certain amount of time, requiring some initial investment such as a purchase fee and a much smaller renewal fee. Giving people free permanent business permits creates an overabundance and harms your ability to regulate how many people at once have the ability to sell legal items.

Having a purchase and renewal fee ensures businesses are also working toward being active and selling enough stock in order to pay for the fee and make a profit on top of it.

 

[AdamCF]

Business permits should also expire (via in-game mechanics) and need to be renewed after a certain amount of time, requiring some initial investment such as a purchase fee and a much smaller renewal fee. Giving people free permanent business permits creates an overabundance and harms your ability to regulate how many people at once have the ability to sell legal items.

Having a purchase and renewal fee ensures businesses are also working toward being active and selling enough stock in order to pay for the fee and make a profit on top of it.

Yeah, business permits are only available to the registered owner of a store while the owner of the store actually owns that store. The second it runs out, the permit is revoked.

 

[AbeBatJes]

Originally, I was gonna have businesses registered, but due to the abrupt start, it kinda made things rather difficult. However I'm sure this will be addressed for V3 once it's ready, and we'll probably have screenshots listed for the director of DoP and what not so that they can have said spreadsheet.

There is a roster available that shows every employee of every business that's currently running. While I'm not sure if it's been updated, it was placed by Razan (and the roster I had was merged into the mega roster).

Rather than a weekly payment, I'd say X amount of 'increased wages' would be the better choice, so that people aren't just getting a massive increase of credits out of nowhere. The main owner would be the 'larger end' of the wages, but the employees should at least get the lesser amount (since well, that's what a lot of businesses do already...obviously..)

100% agree with the locker idea. When I was doing searches of every business, I didn't have access to each locker, which is kind of concerning.

The weekly payment/losing store was actually already technically a thing, but again because of the abrupt start and not being ready, it kind of kicked that idea MOMENTARILY off the curb.

It's already (at least when I was there) placed that if the owner leaves/dies/doesn't want the store, it would be passed on to the next employee that was hired; if they don't want to own it, then it'll be passed on until an owner is given.

In the business owner handbook, there's already a thing set up in regards to payments and all that; after x amount of time, a bidding process will be initiated, allowing the owners to either stay with their current plot of land, or bid for someone else's spot.

 

[Sagsworth]

I despise the idea that businesses should be distributed base on the capacity to make money rather than the capacity to produce good roleplay. This is why I hate the bidding system, and all the artificial stuff put over the business system that means people need to make money. The objective of a business is to be an RP Hub, and if a business has created an RP hub then it has done it's job, winning a bidding war for a business seems like a bad idea to me. If people want to run a shop they should submit an application, and the applications should be looked over and whoever has the best idea / will be active and support a business should get a business.

 

[HonourableArthur]

I gave this a quick read and it all seems sound to me. The spreadsheet can be done with no issues. Numbering businesses will also make it a little easier to distinguish, at least for logging purposes. We could even have a number posted out the front of stores for identification purposes.

I do like the idea of shortening down the rent from the current 15 days to 7. Most businesses we've seen hardly make the 15 day mark, let alone 7. I'll need to work out a reasonable amount of rent per 7 days. I'll be keeping the prospect of gaining a percentage of a store's profits. Instead of every 30 days. I'll cut it down to every 14. I'd say 5% for now. Seeing as store sites are to be numbered, that'll make managing the cost of rent easier, especially given the size of a place they wish to rent.

Advance payment options are a good idea also. Allowing an employee to do so would work, but that'll depend on the owner. Surely they'll give somebody the required amount to safe keep. These can be collected by Assistants via a POS Terminal.

Employees would be registered on the spreadsheet. In fact, they are done so on our existing roster spreadsheet, so that is no issue.

Now about seizing. I take it that we'd seize their goods, if any and hold them for up to three days. If they do not turn up, we'd either destroy them or sell them back to current and active owners? Does this also mean that their property is seized as well?

The idea of creating a spreadsheet for container passwords sounds like quite a bit of micromanaging on our behalf. Even if this allows us to seize illegal goods, report and log them. Although this will need to be done by a middle man in game. That being setting up the locks.

Coming back to seized properties, this point answers it. If the rent is paid on time, they're effectively evicted with the site for sale. I'd imagine we could allow prospective buyers to bid for it. They'd still pay the going rate for that property, though. Nothing more. It's just that the seized goods of the previous owner are to be kept for up to 3 days before being "dumped".

Whoever comes and bids the most for the property gets it, pure and simple. Payments are to be made on the day by midnight GMT +0 (Will adjust for myself)

Employees taking over the store in the owners stead, especially in an untimely death or something that incapacitates them is fine by me. This ensures that it keeps operating, should there be a healthy amount of employees present. If they're a known anti-citizen or malignant, the store gets seized and is for sale at the usual time, from Midnight GMT +0

That last point I may need some elaborating on.

Alright, that's my interpretation and addendum to what you have suggested. Let me read a little further.

Now this idea I really like! Business permits that can expire after a certain time and need to be renewed. Now if a business permit is approved, which would be via apps on the forums, I'd say we can issue that free of charge, SO LONG AS their character has their app approved or their case has been approved by MYSELF. If they are NOT on the list. They don't get one. Simple as that. Now, if they must renew their permit, I don't see why they can't pay a small "handling fee". If they make it that far to renew it, that shows initiative. It'll also clear up permits for the less active holders too. And even, those that "shouldn't" even have a permit in the first place. A purchase fee is also an idea. I'll keep that open for now, but the renewal fee should be a thing in my book.

As for clearing up stores on the map we're on currently. I've sent out an activity check form and only 3 businesses have responded. which is telling, although, they have less than 48 hours remaining. Now there's some hope that the map change will allow us a clean slate, however, I don't feel as optimistic about that. I've already got a few business pitches waiting to go as it is. For our most active businesses, I don't see why they can't get a spot to continue. I'd say The Alp is one such deserving business. My point is that store locations are limited in C8. We could rely on allowing stands to be set up in their place, may even allow them to sell as much as a brick and mortar store instead of a limited selection.

There's also the prospect Robert pitched to me about "Open Businesses". Areas where people whom hold permits can easy set up and sell as they wish. Whilst I think having an area or hub for that is sound enough in itself, it'll require a little more thought and opinions from others.

 

[HonourableArthur]

I despise the idea that businesses should be distributed base on the capacity to make money rather than the capacity to produce good roleplay. This is why I hate the bidding system, and all the artificial stuff put over the business system that means people need to make money. The objective of a business is to be an RP Hub, and if a business has created an RP hub then it has done it's job, winning a bidding war for a business seems like a bad idea to me. If people want to run a shop they should submit an application, and the applications should be looked over and whoever has the best idea / will be active and support a business should get a business.

You know, you make a good point here. Perhaps we should rethink how we're going to deal with businesses that go inactive and put on sale. If they're an RP hub, they'll not only make money, but will most of all, be engaging to both the playerbase and those working the business. It's give and take. As it stands now, I only plan to accept the application of those whom have the strongest business cases. If they're viable, in the least, thought out and plan to have a decent employee base, that'll boost their chances of being approved. I've had 2 negotiations going on recently, mostly for the map change. Both are seem to be good business cases to me.

All in all. We need to work out a business system that's not only simple, but streamlined. I'd love to cut down on the bureaucracy as much as anyone else.

 

[AdamCF]

Rather than a weekly payment, I'd say X amount of 'increased wages' would be the better choice, so that people aren't just getting a massive increase of credits out of nowhere. The main owner would be the 'larger end' of the wages, but the employees should at least get the lesser amount (since well, that's what a lot of businesses do already...obviously..)

Not 100% sure you understand the weekly payment thing. Store owners pay rent every week. The store owner receives absolutely no payment from the city.

In the business owner handbook, there's already a thing set up in regards to payments and all that; after x amount of time, a bidding process will be initiated, allowing the owners to either stay with their current plot of land, or bid for someone else's spot.

One of my main issues is actually the bidding. I don’t like it. It means that the richer guy gets the store, not the one who scoops it up first.

But yeah, I think you do slightly misunderstand some parts of the original post. I’m happy to explain it further.

Advance payment options are a good idea also. Allowing an employee to do so would work, but that'll depend on the owner. Surely they'll give somebody the required amount to safe keep. These can be collected by Assistants via a POS Terminal.

The important thing to keep in mind is that advance payments should have a maximum amount of... advance-ness. Don’t want people paying 6000c and then going off for a couple years. 72 hours before the deadline maximum

Coming back to seized properties, this point answers it. If the rent is paid on time, they're effectively evicted with the site for sale. I'd imagine we could allow prospective buyers to bid for it. They'd still pay the going rate for that property, though. Nothing more. It's just that the seized goods of the previous owner are to be kept for up to 3 days before being "dumped".

A bit confused here. You say about bidding, but then say they won’t be bidding and will instead pay the set price and nothing more, and then say they’ll bid for it again and whoever pays the most wins. This bidding system for businesses is bad. Instead, just charge the set price for that location and it’s first come, first serve. The businesses should not be restricted to the richest people, which bidding does.




While you guys get most of it, I might write up a better explanation about the system instead

 

[AdamCF]

@HonourableArthur @AbeBatJes @Sagsworth

Updated the post, re-explained it

 

[HonourableArthur]

@HonourableArthur @AbeBatJes @Sagsworth

Updated the post, re-explained it

Thanks for doing that. I'll admit, I did feel a little confused in some areas and was a lacking sleep myself at the time. Now let's go through this again.

I'm sold on rent to be payed every 7 days since the business is established. Same with allowing businesses to pay their rent in advance no more than 3 days prior. This can give some businesses a chance to pay up and not miss the deadline, especially if they feel they'll miss it. I'm happy for employees to pay this on the owner's behalf too. So long as it is payed, they can remain opened.

The upfront cost of a building with rent split up into smaller amounts, which account for what the property is worth solves the issue of how much to charge rent wise. With properties being numbered and logged, this can work.

If rent cannot be payed on time the business is seized and all employees/tenants are evicted. The owner's license revoked. Any remaining goods is seized by the DoP and can be purchased back by the previous owner. Now I find this interesting. It wouldn't make too much sense to just return it, seeing as they missed the rent deadline and would already be in hot water with the Department. X2 of whatever the store charges for said items is a fair enough metric. This will require having a copy of the store's prices. If they are not claimed, they are destroyed.

An employee inheriting the business due to the owner becoming deceased is fair, I find. They can keep it going, ensuring they're paying the rent on time. Seeing as employees are able to pay the rent in their stead, if the owner isn't around, that's no excuse at all. Now, the owner being tagged an Anti-Citizen will require cooperation of Civil Protection to notify us. From there we'll search the property thoroughly before seizing any available items, any contraband found being dealt with appropriately and the store being shut and put back out to the market once again. I also believe in an employee is also tagged as an Anti-Citizen, the same procedure should be enacted. All it takes is that one person to ruin it for the collective. Consider it punishment. This is a dystopian world after all.

I like how you've outlined the procedure of purchasing a business plot and license. I'd rather axe the whole intention of having it up to bidding. I never truthfully understood the system Abe had planned. This new system you've presented is at least to me, more sound than leaving it up to the highest bidder which could very much bring the return of the issues we currently see on the server.

Having all those details of a business on a public spreadsheet would be helpful to all. Should everything you've listed here is made available. No complaints from me.

Now, I have a couple of questions for myself.

- Business Permits: You mentioned any employees that hold a permit. But wouldn't the owner only hold this? As they'd be ultimately responsible for buying up stock. We already have the issue of too many people with permits that shouldn't have them in the first place. Yet, I do understand that there would very well be a situation where nobody present is able to order in any stock. That'll just backfire in the least. So with that, are registered employees able to perhaps purchase a permit for use within the store they work? It seems to be so, given how the public spreadsheet is planned to operate. We can't be giving them out like hotcakes this time. Other than that, I also think that the owner, upon paying for the plot is issued the permit like you mentioned.

- Requirements to apply: As it stands now, Daniels has made up a temporary list of requirements for potential business owners. They were designed to negate new players or less established ones from being granted a permit and in effect, stand, only to disappear completely soon after. The two main requirements he enacted were the following. 150 SC on the character you wish to establish the business with. Player has played on the server for 7 days.

We're currently debating these requirements at the moment. One suggested 125 SC to be a little less taxing, but still doable. I'd like to get some opinions of others on these requirements. One argument is that we can't just let anybody apply. They should be individuals in at least a decent social standing. Whereas with this system, if they can pay for it, they get it. If they miss out on rent or are charged with a heavy infraction or even found with contraband, they're shut down. I really want some opinons on the prospect of requirements.

- Inspections: This is an aspect I wish to introduce going forward with the new map change. Now, these won't be frequent at all, as that'd give off the impression of too much gatekeeping, but it is also a measure that cannot be ignored, given the world we are in. Inspections may be carried out by Assistants, preferably Financial Assistants. They may be undertaken by someone higher, if need be. Now these inspections could come in several forms. From checking up on activity, to ensure the business' state is safe for operation to making an inspection to ensure they are not selling goods, whether illegal or not to be sold by that business as it falls outside of their business' purpose. The former would obviously result in a seizure. The latter could very well be some form of punishment. Like a fine, perhaps? I'd also like some opinions on this.

- Business Categories: I feel the current categories we have for businesses works well enough. Those interested should still register their business and operate them under the category they choose. I don't believe they should be selling items that are outside of their intended category either. As we all know, the two most important businesses to a playerbase are the clothing and general goods stores. People want their cosmetic scripts and if you need something as simple as bloody paper to write on, you must procure that at a general store. Followed by this are the hubs of RP that are created through bars/cafes/restaurants. (Should they be active and well ran.)

The categories as I know them are as follows. (There's a chance that I may miss a couple)

General Goods/Convenience Store - (Scripts people seek)
Clothing Store - (Cosmetic scripts people desire)
Bar/Pub - (RP Hub)
Restaurant/Cafe - (RP Hub)
(We also have a casino operating)

That's it for me for now. I look forward to what the rest of you wish to add/suggest or what other opinions you may hold. I wish to get this right.

 

[AdamCF]

- Business Permits: You mentioned any employees that hold a permit. But wouldn't the owner only hold this? As they'd be ultimately responsible for buying up stock. We already have the issue of too many people with permits that shouldn't have them in the first place. Yet, I do understand that there would very well be a situation where nobody present is able to order in any stock. That'll just backfire in the least. So with that, are registered employees able to perhaps purchase a permit for use within the store they work? It seems to be so, given how the public spreadsheet is planned to operate. We can't be giving them out like hotcakes this time. Other than that, I also think that the owner, upon paying for the plot is issued the permit like you mentioned.

I'm happy with it just being the owner.

- Requirements to apply: As it stands now, Daniels has made up a temporary list of requirements for potential business owners. They were designed to negate new players or less established ones from being granted a permit and in effect, stand, only to disappear completely soon after. The two main requirements he enacted were the following. 150 SC on the character you wish to establish the business with. Player has played on the server for 7 days.

I don't think there should be a social credit requirement (or at least not much of one), although I do agree that they should have been relocated to the city more than 7 days ago (check the logs tab in the datapad for a date and time). I think I left it out of my edit, but I was considering having discounted prices for people with higher social credit counts


I'd also just like to mention that I think applications for businesses shouldn't be a thing. A bit controversial, I know. Go up to the DOP, get your details filled out, get the business.

 

[AdamCF]

@TheRealDaniels Since you're the highest in DOP, I'd like an opinion on this. If you like it, I can help set stuff up

 

[hawke]

I despise the idea that businesses should be distributed base on the capacity to make money rather than the capacity to produce good roleplay. This is why I hate the bidding system, and all the artificial stuff put over the business system that means people need to make money. The objective of a business is to be an RP Hub, and if a business has created an RP hub then it has done it's job, winning a bidding war for a business seems like a bad idea to me. If people want to run a shop they should submit an application, and the applications should be looked over and whoever has the best idea / will be active and support a business should get a business.

I agree with this somewhat, however, I think the main reasons serious roleplay has suffered a slow death in general is its over-reliance on text-based roleplay itself to sustain the gamemode, leading people to quit if there's not enough "roleplay" present.

I do believe that more immersive game-mechanics not only encourage, but enforce roleplay are virtually essential to prolonging the gamemode's lifespan and granting player's a reason to keep logging in. The RPG skills were a decent addition, granting motivation to salvage / trade, although still quite underwhelming given its potential. Overall, there does need to be emphasis on monetary gain in businesses otherwise players feel as though their time is wasted if their character's gain nothing.