CCC: Cop mentalities(?)

[Rabid]

So firstly, this isn't a jab at anyone specific in the faction and it also isn't a jab at the quality of roleplay or anything like that.

But over the past few weeks as I've dove properly into the forums and played the server, I've noticed a trend with Civil Protection - not only have they been PKing more of their own than they have rebels, at least in public, but a comment in one of the appeals gave me a few red flags about the approach to IC relations. I can't find the quote exactly, but the overall mentality was:

"You aren't in any sort of brotherhood and you cannot trust your superiors".

That to me feels like it is a bad thing to push IC - because it makes people more inclined to play non-characters who have no incentive to actually make themselves unique for fear of being killed over it, which then leads to my second point:

Since the early days of Castro (who had to jump through several PK's) there's seemingly been a big aversion to letting conflict boil? I feel like there's no real faction-wide sense of "we'll only step in when we absolutely have to", instead there seems to be a mentality that conflict should be stepped on at the first possible opportunity to keep the peace, given doing anything else might risk their cop being PK'd.

Pepe's PK is the most recent example, wherein he could have just easily kept his RP to the forums before submitting the petition - but he wanted to take it in game to involve people. This sort of thing concerns me, because it gives people the message that if they do too much of anything they'll likely get PK'd - even if it is innocent in nature. This naturally just ends in people not doing much and makes the city vs rebel divide worsen as people seek shelter rather than engaging themselves.

Maybe this seems like an exaggeration but I've been around Gmod long enough to see some warning signs, so I thought I'd post this here to let other people put down their own experiences.

 

[Noh]

​

 

[Pasta]

Could you please give more examples regarding your concerns with the Civil Protection Mentality? I don't quite see where you're coming from at this current moment, but I would like to hear you out. As someone who does play in the Civil Protection albeit new as well, I don't see the mentality in which you speak of the "You aren't in any sort of brotherhood and you cannot trust your superiors".

Now, this could vary from player to player, but I've noticed the protection teams are very close with one another. Some would say too close.

What is another glaring issue you've seen, there's no way a faction can improve if the flaws are not called out. We are blind to them. It does take an outside source to spot things we cannot see ourselves.

 

[WillowBot]

Thats how MPF always goes in any server, they become so over zealous and do so well at their jobs, that Citizen RP is almost entirely a dichotomy between 'Workblock enjoyer 4000' and 'John Rebelman Shotcop extraordinaire'

 

[Rabid]

Could you please give more examples regarding your concerns with the Civil Protection Menatlity? I don't quite see where you're coming from at this current moment, but I would like to hear you out. As someone who does play in the Civil Protection albeit new as well, I don't see the mentality in which you speak of the ""You aren't in any sort of brotherhood and you cannot trust your superiors".

Now, this could vary from player to player, but I've noticed the protection teams are very close with one another. Some would say too close.

Can you give more examples for your current statement?

It was a statement given by one of the faction leaders in relation to a PK of a unit recently - though I abridged it a little.

Attitude
The reason for that was the attitude that followed. I personally applaud your character for him breaking down to the rank leader, and generally acting like a normal human being. Unfortunately, Civil Protection is not a place for such emotions to thrive. Worse so is disobedience, which King-6 had shown multiple times during the 'trial.' This is something rank leaders and Captains have decided to take an extremely clear stand on, and although King-6 went through a great amount of suffering in a short amount of time, does not mean it should be humored or even kept in account. Civil Protection is no brotherhood. It is a collection of bad people giving orders to slightly less bad people, and anyone who steps out of line even remotely is going to be punished for it.

Directly telling people that "If you RP emotion you are still probably going to end up PK'd" breeds cops who will go by the letter of the law rather than the spirit of it to promote roleplay, specifically to save themselves from any potential backlash internally. It also pushes them into not RPing emotion or generally being fleshed-out characters for the same reason.

I've seen the sort of faction this sort of view can create and it really isn't a positive one for anyone else.

 

[Laura]

Civil Protection has had a witch hunt fever inside of it recently. ( Won't name anybody. But its very much a thing inside the faction.)
Also the response onto problems has been very much break it down or taken for a long drag. Until anything is done about it.
Outside faction relations are basically boiling down to people not giving a shit, PK will often be stretched and kill of a character.

Regarding RP and characters of Cops. General Emotions and such. Is being cracked down. Due to some who will surely respond to this thread defending the alienization of Cops from both their colleagues. But the general Civil Populace as part of the Universe. ( In their mind at least. )
There is no middle line, and things have boiled down to somebody messes up and everybody got punished for it. And it comes off as there is not being any trust in the whitelist faction, and that they can't provide interesting characters and roleplay. And it defaults to just play as NPCs. Which some people for some reason want this faction to default into.

 

[Rabid]

Civil Protection has had a witch hunt fever inside of it recently. ( Won't name anybody. But its very much a thing inside the faction.)
Also the response onto problems has been very much break it down or taken for a long drag. Until anything is done about it.
Outside faction relations are basically boiling down to people not giving a shit, PK will often be stretched and kill of a character.

Regarding RP and characters of Cops. General Emotions and such. Is being cracked down. Due to some who will surely respond to this thread defending the alienization of Cops from both their colleagues. But the general Civil Populace as part of the Universe. ( In their mind at least. )
There is no middle line, and things have boiled down to somebody messes up and everybody got punished for it. And it comes off as there is not being any trust in the whitelist faction, and that they can't provide interesting characters and roleplay. And it defaults to just play as NPCs. Which some people for some reason want this faction to default into.

Alienating cops from citizens I can understand, so long as they respect the conflict and RP of others, because that's easy to work around and makes for great RP - but that isn't happening right now and a lot of cops are seemingly trying to go by the book rather than the spirit.

Alienating cops from one another and directly setting up a mentality of "trust nobody!" is just silly. You want cops to trust one another, to back one another up, right? You don't want your RL's getting fragged in sweeps because they set themselves up as the enemy.

I also want to reiterate I'm not trying to shit on the faction here, but a lot of these issues are ones that need addressing before the trust in the faction is gone and nobody wants to give them the time of day. I've seen it happen before and it sucks.

 

[Pasta]

It was a statement given by one of the faction leaders in relation to a PK of a unit recently - though I abridged it a little.



Directly telling people that "If you RP emotion you are still probably going to end up PK'd" breeds cops who will go by the letter of the law rather than the spirit of it to promote roleplay, specifically to save themselves from any potential backlash internally. It also pushes them into not RPing emotion or generally being fleshed-out characters for the same reason.

I've seen the sort of faction this sort of view can create and it really isn't a positive one for anyone else.

I think less so, it's saying that you cannot display emotions. Hell, I've had my Officer break down more than once for his actions. Yet it's behind closed doors with those only he trusts. Rather than displaying their full emotions to the world. It's not as if in Half-Life 2 we get to see the true insides of the Civil Protection. bar- say for Barney. Who. Still displays emotion.

There's a fine line. Where people want to have the cops be the big baddies. Then there are the others who want them to be their own characters. I am one of the seconds. I do not Roleplay Civil Protection to beat characters or make life shitty. I roleplay it to have my own story, with my own character, in a different kind of settle and role.

I am not defending those who choose to do their own thing. Rather. Having them push to their own story. Rebels see the server differently than how I do. Citizens, CWU, and CMU all see the server in different ways, different dymanics. But Civil Protection in all regards to the server ARE the bad guys. No matter how nice you can RP them. They are still the bad guys.

Emotions are what make Humans, Human. I can see it very easily be limited by the Combine. Yet there are cracks in the mask. Times where you can see it.

The issue is when you allow emotions to get out of hand. (We've had our internal problems which have been mostly dealt with). That's what I think they're trying to say.

 

[Aizer]

I think less so, it's saying that you cannot display emotions. Hell, I've had my Officer break down more than once for his actions. Yet it's behind closed doors with those only he trusts. Rather than displaying their full emotions to the world. It's not as if in Half-Life 2 we get to see the true insides of the Civil Protection. bar- say for Barney. Who. Still displays emotion.

There's a fine line. Where people want to have the cops be the big baddies. Then there are the others who want them to be their own characters. I am one of the seconds. I do not Roleplay Civil Protection to beat characters or make life shitty. I roleplay it to have my own story, with my own character, in a different kind of settle and role.

I am not defending those who choose to do their own thing. Rather. Having them push to their own story. Rebels see the server differently than how I do. Citizens, CWU, and CMU all see the server in different ways, different dymanics. But Civil Protection in all regards to the server ARE the bad guys. No matter how nice you can RP them. They are still the bad guys.

Emotions are what make Humans, Human. I can see it very easily be limited by the Combine. Yet there are cracks in the mask. Times where you can see it.

The issue is when you allow emotions to get out of hand. (We've had our internal problems which have been mostly dealt with). That's what I think they're trying to say.

After reading this a question popped in my head. Do CP's have ideological trainings by something akin to a political comissar? Like, is there a unit who goes with them whose purpose is explaining the ideological background to combine opression?

 

[Laura]

The issue is when you allow emotions to get out of hand. (We've had our internal problems which have been mostly dealt with). That's what I think they're trying to say.

I agree that uncontrolled emotions and outbursts infront of superiors is completely valid reason for measures to be taken against that Officer.

After reading this a question popped in my head. Do CP's have ideological trainings by something akin to a political comissar? Like, is there a unit who goes with them whose purpose is explaining the ideological background to combine opression?

There's no such thing no. CPs loyalties are not being tracked lol

 

[Rabid]

But Civil Protection in all regards to the server ARE the bad guys. No matter how nice you can RP them. They are still the bad guys.

I think this is what frustrates me the most; I've legitimately found people hate cops more (IC) if they act like people - if they can joke with one another on a street corner as you walk by only to raid your apartment and threaten to kill you or make your life hell later. The cops who try and be good or drop apologies to someone who got beaten despite collaborating with an alien empire, only for it to ring hollow to those they've hurt.

You can make even the most die-hard Combine fanatic relatable and easy to hate without strictly following the rulebook.

These interactions will forever inspire people more than the classic mentality of "you cannot show emotion and must be menacing all the time!" because they give you something to connect to, something to hate - and helps people stop viewing the faction as an NPC's, which sadly seems to be a fairly common sentiment right now.

I agree that uncontrolled emotions and outbursts infront of superiors is completely valid reason for measures to be taken against that Officer.

I agree too, but when the response is "I applaud you for RPing a human character but it made no difference and had zero impact even though the circumstances were special" it just tells people not to bother with it at all.

 

[Aizer]

I agree that uncontrolled emotions and outbursts infront of superiors is completely valid reason for measures to be taken against that Officer.

There's no such thing no. CPs loyalties are not being tracked lol

No, I don't mean it as a way to track their loyalty, that'd be pointless
The idea of the political commisar is not to check on the loyalty of the troops, but to instill them with ideological fervour

It'd be a unit in charge of explaining to the CPs why we beat citizens with a glowing stick, why we do queues, shit like that. To give a context as to the reason of power.

The OOC reasoning is that this would allow the CP players to give shape to their personalities through the background of the ideology they are enforcing.

I think we did something like this in LP, or I tried to do it, or I simply told @Moon during one of my many, many, drunken stupors.

The point is, it could help to complement the whole political atmosphere of the city

 

[WillowBot]

I think less so, it's saying that you cannot display emotions. Hell, I've had my Officer break down more than once for his actions. Yet it's behind closed doors with those only he trusts. Rather than displaying their full emotions to the world. It's not as if in Half-Life 2 we get to see the true insides of the Civil Protection. bar- say for Barney. Who. Still displays emotion.

There's a fine line. Where people want to have the cops be the big baddies. Then there are the others who want them to be their own characters. I am one of the seconds. I do not Roleplay Civil Protection to beat characters or make life shitty. I roleplay it to have my own story, with my own character, in a different kind of settle and role.

I am not defending those who choose to do their own thing. Rather. Having them push to their own story. Rebels see the server differently than how I do. Citizens, CWU, and CMU all see the server in different ways, different dymanics. But Civil Protection in all regards to the server ARE the bad guys. No matter how nice you can RP them. They are still the bad guys.

Emotions are what make Humans, Human. I can see it very easily be limited by the Combine. Yet there are cracks in the mask. Times where you can see it.

The issue is when you allow emotions to get out of hand. (We've had our internal problems which have been mostly dealt with). That's what I think they're trying to say.

CP arent augmented tho, They're just dudes in suits. If you try to arue that they should be mostly emotionless cogs in a machine, you're just writing fan fiction at that point.

MPF officers are just regular citizens who are fed and treated better in exchange for enforcement of the laws

 

[Neonity]

Moved to appropriate forum section. Keep it civil, please.

 

[The Milkman]

they never should have banned Merlinsclaw. now look at the state of the server............

 

[Pasta]

After reading this a question popped in my head. Do CP's have ideological trainings by something akin to a political comissar? Like, is there a unit who goes with them whose purpose is explaining the ideological background to combine opression?

No, but I don't think that's not a bad idea. Not. Well. Bare with me, not to say we have Political Commissar, but I think having units pushed through the ideals could be neat. I'm not a lead, I'm just here to enjoy my time, I can always try to explore that with my own character. I'll get back to you on this if it goes well.

If not, well.

I tried.

CP arent augmented tho, They're just dudes in suits. If you try to arue that they should be mostly emotionless cogs in a machine, you're just writing fan fiction at that point.

MPF officers are just regular citizens who are fed and treated better in exchange for enforcement of the laws

Correct, That doesn't mean they aren't emotional. No one is saying that they'd ever just be emotionless. Yet there is a time and place for everything. When on the streets I'd argue you'd want to be as professional as possible. Which. In the regulations as well as the culture pushed is to be a strict upheld authority. Rather than just a run of the mil beep-boop Robot. Because that's no fun. Emotions are fun. Pushing the LIMITS of every faction. Is fun.

Honestly, yeah, they're just Citizens who have a bit of power to ensure they are better fed, better kept, and given purpose in some cases. Though, through the time of me talking to characters, each story is a little different. It's fun. I wish it could be expressed more. Not to say it isn't, but it's not always in the spotlight.

No, I don't mean it as a way to track their loyalty, that'd be pointless
The idea of the political commisar is not to check on the loyalty of the troops, but to instill them with ideological fervour

It'd be a unit in charge of explaining to the CPs why we beat citizens with a glowing stick, why we do queues, shit like that. To give a context as to the reason of power.

The OOC reasoning is that this would allow the CP players to give shape to their personalities through the background of the ideology they are enforcing.

I think we did something like this in LP, or I tried to do it, or I simply told @Moon during one of my many, many, drunken stupors.

The point is, it could help to complement the whole political atmosphere of the city

I like the idea, though to me it just sounds like what Command should be doing already. I can always poke a few people here and there to see what their thoughts on the political push could be. Honestly. I do enjoy the idea of a political commissar within the back works of the Civil Protection. Could you tell me how in your ideal situation, it'd work? I understand besides explaining. But how would it function? Would there be one per squad? Or would there be one for the entire Civil Protection Program? Would it be a separate branch?

 

[Pasta]

I think this is what frustrates me the most; I've legitimately found people hate cops more (IC) if they act like people - if they can joke with one another on a street corner as you walk by only to raid your apartment and threaten to kill you or make your life hell later. The cops who try and be good or drop apologies to someone who got beaten despite collaborating with an alien empire, only for it to ring hollow to those they've hurt.

You can make even the most die-hard Combine fanatic relatable and easy to hate without strictly following the rulebook.

These interactions will forever inspire people more than the classic mentality of "you cannot show emotion and must be menacing all the time!" because they give you something to connect to, something to hate - and helps people stop viewing the faction as an NPC's, which sadly seems to be a fairly common sentiment right now.



I agree too, but when the response is "I applaud you for RPing a human character but it made no difference and had zero impact even though the circumstances were special" it just tells people not to bother with it at all.

And I didn't see this I'm sorry I wish I responded to this sooner.

I do agree! It's very frustrating for people wanting to have the Civil Protection act like nothing more than NPC's. I am one of those people who do not want to be seen as an NPC. My favorite part of being a Civil Protection Unit is showing humanity under the mask. Making the Rebels think twice before shooting another cop. What if it was one that was kind and showed them mercy? What if it was the one who they somehow tried to befriend. What if ...

You get my point. You and I are on the same page. Because I am on your side. Civil Protection SHOULD show their emotions. I want it encouraged. Though giving outbursts towards a Commanding Officer... in even real-life... will get you in trouble. Major trouble. Could really harm your career in that field. So I see both sides.

Having Civil Protection show their humanity in pieces honestly is great. Showing that they're just like the rest of you. They just chose a different path. It all comes down to how you write things. I will admit, I am very new, but it does seem like there's been a very strange crack down on showing certain kinds of emotion. I'm sure in time it'll pass.

 

[swagile]

omfg

please play the damn game instead of going on huge rants about the "state of the server"

zomg

 

[Skeptical]

I think CP's have been displaying enough emotion for their characters. I have seen plenty joking around with other cops, some going easy on citizens, and treating certain citizen chars differently. To me it's just subtle and I don't expect CP's to be crying their hearts out every time. Most would be desensitized to the amount of death and suffering they see in only a few months time.

I do support amputations being a little more uncommon and replaced with temp PK's where citizens are sent to a work camp.

 

[Pawlu]

omfg

please play the damn game instead of going on huge rants about the "state of the server"

zomg

community manager btw