Changing Willard's HL2RP: The Case for a Wipe & More

[Craw]

The thing I don't really like about Willards current lore is just how open and known everything is, with POI's and 'Unique' GOI's scattered across Earth which barely contribute anything to the narrative. I'd prefer it if there was more Mystery to it and up to Player Interpretation IC as to what these strange parts of the world hold through Legends, Myths ect. Almost making these places become like Folklore where they may or may not even be true at all

If there were ever to be a Lore Wipe I would say just scrub everything down to the bare essentials and tweak it from there (eg. Timeline, Continents) so all these unused Factions or boring Storyline that aren't going anywhere are scrapped down to be re-purposed into something more complex or unique for a given narrative

 

[ShadoWiz4rd]

@Jacob Disunified rebels is just going to be 2022 all over agian.

Can anyone name something genuinely good / forwarding the agenda that the rebels did in 2022? besides the OIN tower Attack

 

[Neonity]

Can anyone name something genuinely good / forwarding the agenda that the rebels did in 2022? besides the OIN tower Attack

The best part about this is the fact that NONE of the rebels were real player rebels. They were all GM/admin rebels and none of the characters were ever on the main server.

It was so poorly planned in fact, that the CT had scrambled to come up with the name for the “rebels” that did the attack, until after it had already happened.

The most impactful thing rebels ever did wasn’t even done by any real player rebels. So much for player initiative.

 

[Merlinsclaw]

The best part about this is the fact that NONE of the rebels were real player rebels. They were all GM/admin rebels and none of the characters were ever on the main server.

It was so poorly planned in fact, that the CT had scrambled to come up with the name for the “rebels” that did the attack, until after it had already happened.

The most impactful thing rebels ever did wasn’t even done by any real player rebels. So much for player initiative.

real rebels either circlejerk and erp or get banned

 

[Jacob]

@Jacob Disunified rebels is just going to be 2022 all over agian.

Can anyone name something genuinely good / forwarding the agenda that the rebels did in 2022? besides the OIN tower Attack

I think rebels def should have some sort of system but people are to loot scared to do anything on real rebel chars

 

[ShadoWiz4rd]

I think rebels def should have some sort of system but people are to loot scared to do anything on real rebel chars

Gonna get alot of shit for saying this, Prob gonna get memed.

What seems to be the rebels POV?

But maybe if it was easier to get weapons and gear (I know some see it as already ridiculously easy but hear me out as I play devils advocate) Maybe if there was a rebel supply/logistic system which made the proliferation of proper entry level weapons let's say Pistols > Sub Machine guns. (After that you need to figure yourself out or earn them) and basic body armor they *Might* be more willing to take risks? Noone wants to launch an attack alone because all the other rebels are fucking pussies and won't come and help you cus "WErE tHe GoOd GuYz We dOnt AtTaCk CoPs FoR No ReAsOn" Or some other lame excuse and end up getting ganked by like 5 CPs armed with UMP's and Glocks beacuse literally either noone had the balls to help and they'd rather bitch about how shitty rebel rp is or are circle jerking in base/outlands.

My experience and criticism

Last time I genuinely played a rebel which was i17 it was a fucking pain in the ass to get rebels to leave the comfort of their base and go onto the surface, You remember the i17 uprising the hound eye gang caused? OTA got called in too and the CPs started fragging each other? Literally the perfect opportunity for the guys sitting on m4's T3 Kevlar to get off their asses head to the surface and cause chaos maybe kill some transhuman and give the resistance a better name other than "You're a loyalist so give me your rations, Wait you have a request device? Guess you're getting pked." <---(These people are mega cringe btw, You know who you are.)

Bottom line current rebel issues (Lack of them doing shit) Seems to be summed as.

• - Cowardice
• - Inactivity
• - No Unity.
• - Shit supply (LFC should be facilitating that considering they have the lore resources) (This should be managed and supported by staff)
• -Gangs / Criminals masquerading as rebels and Actual rebels sitting by as they actively tarnish their reputation.

Like seriously if someone constantly went around posing as mcdonalds and was out smearing their rep as shitheads who are just human garbage then the mcdonalds heads would be organizing to put a stop to it. If you're a rebel and see a criminal holding a loyalist/citizen at gun point in an alley maybe stop and say, "Hey what's going on? Who is this? Why are you doing this?" Instead of shrugging it off and causing an even worse image then you guys already have.


Right now people think of a few things unironically when they think of WN Rebels.

-Scriptwhores.
-Metagamers.
-Terrorists.
-Cowards.

Closing arguements

If we're ever going to build towards a player built uprising in C24 The rebels need to get their shit together. In i17 I propsed the formation of a "Revolutionary council"

Which would consist of a leader from each of the large groups and would regulate resistance operations, If you were a terrorist out beheading loyalists for "Kill combine" then your ass would be disavowed/booted out/dealt with. The council would communicate with outside cells like LFC and SRF ESIC Lambda HMMLR, whoever it was. If leadership is a big issue I propose we re-visit this instead of going through another "X Update will fix this"

There has to be unity within the resistance, The council could decide things and be a link to setting up crucial things with groups mentioned above such as Insurgency operations / supply lines being set up, Ect


///Unrelated side-note/// If we ever get the rebels unified I'd both like to and hope we could possibly see them begin to improvise equiptment, Example the Liberator pistol dropped in europe during ww2, With ARCCW we have a ton of customizability It would be interesting to see the rebels mass-produce some cheap pistol/carbine smg that's made out of scrap icly and given to fighters as some kind of standard

Imagine something like these made of a mix-match maybe USP's converted into SMG Style semi-auto carbines or something.

 

[Goose]

The best part about this is the fact that NONE of the rebels were real player rebels. They were all GM/admin rebels and none of the characters were ever on the main server.

It was so poorly planned in fact, that the CT had scrambled to come up with the name for the “rebels” that did the attack, until after it had already happened.

The most impactful thing rebels ever did wasn’t even done by any real player rebels. So much for player initiative.

I’d happily do something similar to it again. I’ll agree, it was poorly planned, but in my honest opinion not every event needs to have an extremely elaborate essay behind it. CT didn’t like it, but honestly, until CT does something useful other than argue with each other and disregard every single event / storyline suggested I’m going to disregard their opinions.

The roleplay that came from the event, and the consequences it had was excellent in my opinion. I took a risk with that event and I believe it payed off, Rad-X was right alongside me during that event and he agreed to it as well.

On the topic of player-incentive, not everything on the server should be left to player incentive. Staff and game masters shouldn’t be barred from doing major and minor events. Leaving every single event up to player incentive is a horrible idea. While theoretically they “can” do it, they won’t.

I’d personally rather have interesting events with fun consequences that introduce new dynamics run by staff, rather than waiting for players to do it when they never will. Not every event is immediately awful because it was done by an admin rebel.

 

[JakaSmith]

I think rebels def should have some sort of system but people are to loot scared to do anything on real rebel chars

When death is a guaranteed PK this is the consequence. PK should not be enabled for firefights unless you are captured or initiated the fight.

 

[Rabid]

If armed RebelRP doesn't add anything to the server (and has failed even as a 'faction') then why is there still a multi-page argument about how to make it work?

Ignore it. Leave rebels to their own devices and put effort into making the city fun again. Foster surface gangs and groups that actually interact and are willing to roll with the punches and need minimal gear to do their thing. You can say there were problems with them or problems with what existed back then but at least things happened.

When death is a guaranteed PK this is the consequence. PK should not be enabled for firefights unless you are captured or initiated the fight.

If it isn't PK's its gear, or bases, or whatever else. Its an eternally shifting goalpost that you will never solve, so it is better simply not to.

Trying to solve it is literally part of why the server is where it is.

 

[RedHotGinger]

not every event needs to have an extremely elaborate essay behind it.

No, but events of such narrative scale, should at least have some basic logic, planning and cause and effect laid out. Cause now that the short period of followup events are up (all of which could have been done without OCIN being down), all we have left is a giant plot hole and a shell of an arc.

It needed way more thought put into it and more than anything needed to actually be communicated with the members of CT prior to being done.

I’d happily do something similar to it again

(still think ur Kool tho)

 

[Dog]

Willard RP? More uhm..Willy RP. Got'em.

 

[John Rico]

I’d happily do something similar to it again. I’ll agree, it was poorly planned, but in my honest opinion not every event needs to have an extremely elaborate essay behind it. CT didn’t like it, but honestly, until CT does something useful other than argue with each other and disregard every single event / storyline suggested I’m going to disregard their opinions.

The roleplay that came from the event, and the consequences it had was excellent in my opinion. I took a risk with that event and I believe it payed off, Rad-X was right alongside me during that event and he agreed to it as well.

On the topic of player-incentive, not everything on the server should be left to player incentive. Staff and game masters shouldn’t be barred from doing major and minor events. Leaving every single event up to player incentive is a horrible idea. While theoretically they “can” do it, they won’t.

I’d personally rather have interesting events with fun consequences that introduce new dynamics run by staff, rather than waiting for players to do it when they never will. Not every event is immediately awful because it was done by an admin rebel.

I'm inclined to agree with this. Especially since you can easily scale down the chain of events in IC and blame it on faulty reporting and agents with their own agenda (i.e. OCIN wasn't attacked by rebels and instead sabotaged from someone on the inside, causing a chain of reactions that said faction within the Combine are trying to use to achieve their own goals), just void the whole Combine advisor talking to the CCA, can't save that part.
Since the vast majority of the server characters don't have any clearance to know what is going on you can easily remove things on the fly without affecting anyone's IC experience apart from the CCA head honchos, but who cares about them.

 

[TheGoodHunter]

Willard RP? More uhm..Willy RP. Got'em.

who up playing with they willy networks rn

 

[Inspector Orlok]

The OCIN event was so cool. At the time it gave trial members like myself a good introduction to the OTA faction and we pretty much had free reign to use all our guns and equipment. Just a real shame that even after killing our 50th rebel in a row without casualties, we somehow still lost the tower, felt like the ending of the event was already decided before it actually started.

 

[Goose]

The OCIN event was so cool. At the time it gave trial members like myself a good introduction to the OTA faction and we pretty much had free reign to use all our guns and equipment. Just a real shame that even after killing our 50th rebel in a row without casualties, we somehow still lost the tower, felt like the ending of the event was already decided before it actually started.

It could’ve been telegraphed more, but nonetheless OTA were casualty free. Either way, the ending was originally going to be an OTA win but it changed near the end after talking with rad-x. Still, oh well, we know to telegraph it more in the future.

 

[rob]

I'm fine with a wipe, I threw all of my character's items away anyways

 

[𝔄𝔪𝔟𝔢𝔯𝔮]

I think rebels def should have some sort of system but people are to loot scared to do anything on real rebel chars

Thats because of the no hidden bases rule. In the end, it's RNG if you lose skills and/or items when the 57th sweep or 22nd surprise/"for the fun of it" patrol happens that day. You can't always know when 2 CPs "Bee Gees" - walk in the slums and then cause an X scenario where someone suffers a loss of anything you can as a character, or when a sweep happens. Neither will any amount of "NLR for non-initial targets" or "CP's get pk'd or de-ranked if they die" will allow us to get back on our feet, even with the aforementioned sanctions for CPs during sweeps/patrols.

If the CP's come, you either try your luck running in the sewers or you lose everything that makes you want to play your character, because grenade spam, sending even more CPs or OTA to fight if we manage to repel them momentarily.

Either make the slums a no-patrol zone and don't make CPs 'risk their necks' (PK/lose everything rule) over a guy who shoved a CP in the workshift line and managed to get away, or give us hidden bases back. Or both.

 

[ShadoWiz4rd]

Thats because of the no hidden bases rule. In the end, it's RNG if you lose skills and/or items when the 57th sweep or 22nd surprise/"for the fun of it" patrol happens that day. You can't always know when 2 CPs "Bee Gees" - walk in the slums and then cause an X scenario where someone suffers a loss of anything you can as a character, or when a sweep happens. Neither will any amount of "NLR for non-initial targets" or "CP's get pk'd or de-ranked if they die" will allow us to get back on our feet, even with the aforementioned sanctions for CPs during sweeps/patrols.

If the CP's come, you either try your luck running in the sewers or you lose everything that makes you want to play your character, because grenade spam, sending even more CPs or OTA to fight if we manage to repel them momentarily.

Either make the slums a no-patrol zone and don't make CPs 'risk their necks' (PK/lose everything rule) over a guy who shoved a CP in the workshift line and managed to get away, or give us hidden bases back. Or both.

For a week we should have a two strike pk rule for combat related deaths first death=NLR (Some anon rebel was killed) Second death = PK. I think this would make rebels act alot more brazen as we had a similar thing in OSF, People wanted us to be "Cannon fodder" yet we had 10 people and 1 life so it often would be us pinned down and shouting for suppressing fire and like 1-2 people maybe moving but then in S2K the 3 life rule was added and people would actually take risks (Alot of times you didn't even need 3 lives but the psychological confidence it gave you was enough) I know alot of people likely staff will dislike this but I think its worth a trial to atleast see if it changes things with rebels at all.


Obviously there would need to be some regulations or so (If you initiate a mugging and get killed you're fucked) but say you're caught in a fire-fight you didn't initate or an S2K Expedition you get 2 lives.

 

[Goose]

No

 

[RedHotGinger]

or give us hidden bases back

As someone who remembers how god awful these were for the server...
This is literally the last thing that should ever be added back.

Also, rebels mostly suck cause rebel players just refuse to do anything that isn't an assured victory. I17 was peak Willard rebel as it laid them out plain as day for everyone to see - even when given every advantage, every opportunity and every helping hand most rebels still refused to crawl out of their metabase to do anything unless an admin rebel was there to take the shots for them.
Granted, this was rebels at their absolute worst, but that mindset still very much exists I think. To be fair, not all of it is on them. (though it mostly is) There is arguably a lack of incentive to engage in creative activities. Shot-cops and bombs are typically the farthest level of originality and dedication we get for schemes and thats because those are the only two options readily available. The whitelist has not really helped either, as it went from an entity designed to collaborate and improve general server RP via external interaction to basically a country club. Loads of internal benefits, attention and care but giving little to none back.

Anyway, rebels should not be safe. You should not be able to walk around like a moron with your gear - nor spurt out your anti-civil activity to every passerby and expect to get away with it. It shouldn't be too oppressive, but come on, there has to be risk involved when being a literal rebel.

For a week we should have a two strike pk rule for combat related deaths first death=NLR

We did the NLR shit before. Pretty much everyone hated it because all it did was cause the server to turn into a cheap and shitty CvR server. Sure, it actually made rebels get off their asses and do stuff, but it was the same stuff every single time - without any consequence. A new shootout every single day that nobody other than rebels and CP's got anything out of. It was activity at the cost of consequence, which in turn meant there was 0 RP generated from almost every interaction.