Citizen/Loyalist Players, what can be done to improve the faction?

[Goulashnikov]

About a week ago, I posted a thread asking Willard players who don't play citizens what could be done to change that fact and get them more interested in the faction? Before I begin with this thread, if that applies to you then please do check that thread out and leave your opinion and/or vote on the poll: Players who don't play citizens, what would get you to play them more often?
I'll also quickly reiterate what my goals are by quoting my previous post:

One of the ideas I've had is to essentially pivot the Citizen faction away from being the "starter" and almost seemingly non-aligned faction of the server, and instead have the Citizen faction become the foundation on which the other factions are sustained and enriched. Willard Networks has made relatively great strides in this already, with things such as City politics, non-CWU run shops, and having dedicated game masters and event managers. However, the citizen faction still suffers from being a mostly undesirable faction to play for the majority of the server, with players rushing to either join a Rebel faction or become Loyalists and join the CWU/CMU/Government/Conscripts. This leaves a major gap in the server, as run-of-the-mill average citizens become increasingly scarce.

Part of the concept is the framework of the "Server Triad," a very basic design philosophy that prioritizes creating the majority of systems and storylines in an HL2RP server with Citizens in mind first, and then figuring out how the Citizen faction can then fuel the system/storyline for the other two major factions. In the spoiler are a couple of very basic graphics elaborating further, but that's not what this thread is about.

Spoiler: Graphics

View attachment 47913
Here is just one example of how this works, specifically how the Citizen faction fuels CvR gameplay.
View attachment 47914

As a citizen main myself, I know how unfulfilling and boring the faction can be if you are struggling to find something to do or someone to RP with, leading to the urge to switch over to a character in another faction or log off. This is most true if you are playing a newer citizen character.

While I have ideas on how to combat this, I am curious what others have to say.
If you are a frequent citizen or loyalist player, or perhaps even a citizen main, what do you think could be added to improve the faction? Preferably, things that can be controlled for, like mechanics and jobs, or conceptual background stuff, like a better reason actually to collaborate with the Combine.

 

[Kamilisha Haijulikani]

more ways to grind

 

[Divine]

One of my characters is fueled by spite, and lives solely to work to earn money, to buy BEER. And no, not that artificial crap. Real beer.

 

[Malic]

I think there should be a career fair event every 2-3 weeks where Citizens can mass apply for jobs at stores, unions, or departments provided the Socio-Status is Intact.

 

[Divine]

I think there should be a career fair event every 2-3 weeks where Citizens can mass apply for jobs at stores, unions, or departments provided the Socio-Status is Intact.

Raymond Saint-Albert, played by Veronica in the CWU did this like 3 years ago. @veronica

 

[Malic]

Raymond Saint-Albert, played by Veronica in the CWU did this like 3 years ago. @veronica

It was done twice this year, the first time was really successful and the 2nd time was moderately so. At least for ISD recruitment.

 

[Bounter]

I dont play Citizen, but as a person affected by low City pop and also CityRP being dead... it is because there is no REASON to be in one.

Unless you are a shop owner or a employee you cannot do anything without branching out.

There is no self-employed jobs like prospectors, craftsmen and such, who can provide services without needing a store or work somewhere.

And smuggling would suck since they cant get good stuff for Rebels. And even then, be a Undercover in CWU or CMU instead.

 

[rae]

I think the thing with Citizen roleplay is that it has to be extremely personal. You need good characters to surround yourself with their own quirks, pros and cons. Some cases of trouble from other factions might be able to facilitate roleplay, but you really need to keep an extremely open mind to have fun (which is hard, don't get me wrong)

Even knowing this, sometimes I struggle to stick with citizenRP and always wish to move to another alternative. Citizens get the worst out of every event, lets be real. Whenever a portal storm happens? You all have to huddle up in a room and wait, something unique to the storyline and the city's health? You're getting the hell inside and waiting it out. It's lame, it's non-interactive, and all you can frankly do is sit in that room and twiddle your thumbs and let your character have a nervous breakdown, 99% of the time.


I'd say I've interacted with every citizen faction on the server simultaneously, and there's really some cases where....there's sort of nothing there? SRI will remain secretive, the clinic doesn't have much to provide for citizens, perhaps the CRU have nice exploration narratives and so on. I've only gotten REALLY lucky and gotten an interwoven storyline with a lot of the different factions, I wouldn't say most players are ever going to be this lucky, unfortunately.

 

[Goulashnikov]

the clinic doesn't have much to provide for citizens

One major issue that I think is true for not just the citizen faction but rather all characters is that you don't really have any needs to fulfill. Hunger and thirst can be staved off on a steady diet of slop rations and Breen's Reserve, you never have to own more than one shirt as it never gets dirty and you never need to own more than one pair of shoes as they never wear out. In addition, you rarely have to visit the CMU as your character never gets sick and rarely gets hurt. To put it in Econ 101 terms, there is a lack of supply of citizen roleplay because there is currently a lack of demand.

All of this* could be easily remedied by messing around with how the hunger/thirst mechanics work and by having shoes wear out over a long time as you use them. By doing this, you create a demand for roleplay and increase its supply in shops, in clothing repair stores, in laundromats, in doctors visits to deal with illness. These places are not necessary for CitizenRP sure, but it gets the ball rolling. Walking into the shoe repair store to fix your broken boots may not be the most thrilling RP in-and-of-itself, but now since you've now been required to be another player you likely wouldn't have been near in the first place, you've created the foundation needed for continued roleplay.

*aside from disease and laundry, that would require a new mechanics that do already exist but are not on the sever currently

 

[TheGamingPlumber]

laundry

There was a laundry system being developed but the only guy doing it stopped being a dev or something so..... rip

 

[Goulashnikov]

There was a laundry system being developed but the only guy doing it stopped being a dev or something so..... rip

For some reason I can't attach the video nor send a direct link but this guy has a completed Helix plugin for a combined laundry and clothing durability mechanic on his portfolio website: https://helix.mxd.ovh/

 

[Lost Coast Chanties]

Being able to be bald.

 

[TheGamingPlumber]

For some reason I can't attach the video nor send a direct link but this guy has a completed Helix plugin for a combined laundry and clothing durability mechanic on his portfolio website: https://helix.mxd.ovh/

The same thing was being developed here, clothes got dirty over time and u had to wash them or face some debuffs or w/e

Again the only guy developing it is gone so like many things it'll never see the light of day

 

[Bounter]

There was a laundry system being developed but the only guy doing it stopped being a dev or something so..... rip

Brother we are a RP server, not a Sim... People disliked cold addition, and shop changes (before they got reverted) imagine the pushback from THIS.

Besides, it still would not improve Citizen RP or City one, since as it stands, Citizens have NOTHING to do or provide. Giving them reasons to buy shit does not change the fact that Citizen is a transit faction. Hell, its a nothing faction in HL2 itself and any other server I seen, unfortunate or not, it is true.

They cant smuggle and supply rebels since they have worse shit than Smuggler NPCs and BMDs. Also by helping Rebels they are not citizens anymore.

There is no "contract" jobs like prospecting (CWU trash pickup), or janitor duties etc. Only Real Non CWU jobs are cashier, shop owners and workshift participants. Unless you add literal new Labour laws, nothing will change.

PassiveRP is boring to MOST People, especially when lots of people dont even know what it really is... People like doing things, it is why they go to CWU or CMU or Rebels. Citizens outside of workshifts and passive got frick-all to do.

 

[rae]

One major issue that I think is true for not just the citizen faction but rather all characters is that you don't really have any needs to fulfill. Hunger and thirst can be staved off on a steady diet of slop rations and Breen's Reserve, you never have to own more than one shirt as it never gets dirty and you never need to own more than one pair of shoes as they never wear out. In addition, you rarely have to visit the CMU as your character never gets sick and rarely gets hurt. To put it in Econ 101 terms, there is a lack of supply of citizen roleplay because there is currently a lack of demand.

All of this* could be easily remedied by messing around with how the hunger/thirst mechanics work and by having shoes wear out over a long time as you use them. By doing this, you create a demand for roleplay and increase its supply in shops, in clothing repair stores, in laundromats, in doctors visits to deal with illness. These places are not necessary for CitizenRP sure, but it gets the ball rolling. Walking into the shoe repair store to fix your broken boots may not be the most thrilling RP in-and-of-itself, but now since you've now been required to be another player you likely wouldn't have been near in the first place, you've created the foundation needed for continued roleplay.

*aside from disease and laundry, that would require a new mechanics that do already exist but are not on the sever currently

I don't believe this to be a good approach as frankly citizens just need the tools and the creativity to work with them. It'll end up being a hassle of managing these things and everyone will have to adhere to them as well, mind.

You don't need mechanics to roleplay sickness, recovery, and even clothes and whatnot, it's something refreshing. And it's a freedom that citizens are allowed to have, you might aswell, right? My character has 5 different outfits and she alternates between occasions, for example.

One thing that I *wish* shops did, though? Are events, just general happy hour stuff, allowing a space to be taken up by citizen roleplayers to just exist in together. A time and a place goes a long way, and the only reason citizens don't interact with each other as much is because it'd be awkward walking up to another civ and kicking up a conversation.

 

[nora]

what citizens require is not more reductive gameplay mechanics but more space and opportunity to do shit on their own. every other day, you have unrest procedures enacted because of a s2k rebel and thus citizens get the short end of the stick. every other week, you get an ajw where cops and ota go wild on citizens just trying to rp.

this is why i think it to be completely necessary that shops are used first and foremost as a space and only then as actual shops. as rae said, shops need to be a communal space for citizens to interact with one another and even host events every once in a while. proper collaborators (so blue bands and up) should be the ones hosting or at least assisting with them, which gives the average joe both an opportunity to rp with others and perhaps sweettalk their way into the presidium.

 

[Rebel RP Philosopher]

Thanks for making a good post regarding the state of citizen rp and how to improve it. It's garbage by default.

 

[Rabid]

Citizens have the unique problem in HL2RP servers of being a gateway to every other faction, rather than something you should want to spend all your time roleplaying as. It takes a lot of work and a very special mindset to want to play as a purely neutral citizen who has an entire characer arc within that framework and I've only seen a few people ever do it during my time in Gmod RP (and even then those citizens were secondary characters and not mains).

And sure, you could give citizens guns or whatever and have them shoot antlions or do a load of other things via events to spice things up but then they're not acting as citizens.

I do wanna highlight what both @rae and @nora brought up though; stores being forced to act as an actual economy first over roleplay spaces killed a lot of the best RP spots that Willard has seen. I can't for the life of me remember what this one store was called on Triumph Street but for a while (this must have been 2022 or so) it was the best source of passive on the server bar none and got a lot of praise on the forums. I spent hours in there just chatting to the owners and taking in the atmosphere.

Sadly the place closed down due to OOC stuff unrelated to the store itself or the people who ran it, but I'd love to see a return to that sort of thing.

 

[Rebel RP Philosopher]

Citizens have the unique problem in HL2RP servers of being a gateway to every other faction, rather than something you should want to spend all your time roleplaying as. It takes a lot of work and a very special mindset to want to play as a purely neutral citizen who has an entire characer arc within that framework and I've only seen a few people ever do it during my time in Gmod RP (and even then those citizens were secondary characters and not mains).

And sure, you could give citizens guns or whatever and have them shoot antlions or do a load of other things via events to spice things up but then they're not acting as citizens.

I do wanna highlight what both @rae and @nora brought up though; stores being forced to act as an actual economy first over roleplay spaces killed a lot of the best RP spots that Willard has seen. I can't for the life of me remember what this one store was called on Triumph Street but for a while (this must have been 2022 or so) it was the best source of passive on the server bar none and got a lot of praise on the forums. I spent hours in there just chatting to the owners and taking in the atmosphere.

Sadly the place closed down due to OOC stuff unrelated to the store itself or the people who ran it, but I'd love to see a return to that sort of thing.

I remember the pub you were on about, it was around the end of 2021. Basically, it was organized as a get together pub with a very relaxed setting and vortigaunt chefs.

I did run a store too back then, but my approach was fully the dry economic based one (details found here) opposite to this pub. Don't really know how the pub managed to draw such a thick atmosphere for roleplay.

From what I remember, it was oriented on the branding of the store, and the way the owner and it's employees addressed to the customers in a pub-like setting. If someone wanted to become chef, bartender or a waitress, the possibilities were there. Maybe there was a Piano even?

Compared to my store, it was a clock-in and clock-out system for a general goods store. Cheap prices, just as the minmax players desired. Roleplay was not prioritized, accessibility and price was. So we had literally these postal boxes so we could deal with offline trades. Store was ran by employees who had no permits, other than a POS leading to transactions straight to my bank account, and then they'd mail a receipt of items being ordered and by who - so I'd just mail those items to them.

The store more or less had no other requirement than not a bad record and high activity. Working for my store was seen as an temporary endeavor as I'd refer the employees to better stores or occupations.