City 24 V3 - Updates

[Kinglightning07]

Hey umm I know this might not be possible but, I was watching a video once of this guy playing on a map on Gmod and the spawn was on a train. Well what was really cool and what caught a lot of the commenters attention was the fact that he spawned sitting on the seats in the train. Well I just had a thought, perhaps you could learn how to do this and make it so when a person who is starting off as a relocated person, they could spawn like that, I think it could increase emersion. Like the fact you would then have to ICly get up first, then exit the train, but I could also see it being where your eager to get off, but at the same time you might be resting because the train ride was long. But at the same time I also don't really see a depressed citizen being excited to have to get his belongings taken and have to start up a new life again in a different city. Either way though this would be a cool feature to see being a thing.

 

[Gazzpacho]

Hey umm I know this might not be possible but, I was watching a video once of this guy playing on a map on Gmod and the spawn was on a train. Well what was really cool and what caught a lot of the commenters attention was the fact that he spawned sitting on the seats in the train. Well I just had a thought, perhaps you could learn how to do this and make it so when a person who is starting off as a relocated person, they could spawn like that, I think it could increase emersion. Like the fact you would then have to ICly get up first, then exit the train, but I could also see it being where your eager to get off, but at the same time you might be resting because the train ride was long. But at the same time I also don't really see a depressed citizen being excited to have to get his belongings taken and have to start up a new life again in a different city. Either way though this would be a cool feature to see being a thing.

6 lines of describing a man sitting and getting up
It's possible wdym, I mean I guess it's possible

 

[AdamCF]

The only potential issue I've really noticed about the map is how the loyalist apartments only have a single entrance; a slow elevator with nice elevator music. It would be good to have a sort of maintenance ladder in the back for CPs and CWU to use if the elevator's broken and for raids. Just another route in. I can imagine five OTA sitting with their pulse rifles trained on the elevator door while they slowly ascend, listening to Atle's elevator music for a solid 30 seconds.

 

[Kinglightning07]

Please for the love of god, please remove the invisible barriers that are above every apartment that separates each area of the map, as a bird, I have to weave my way through buildings to get to other areas of the map a bird would just simply fly over to get to, I feel like the same goes for scanners, if we could just be able to fly over buildings that would be amazing

 

[AdamCF]

Please for the love of god, please remove the invisible barriers that are above every apartment that separates each area of the map, as a bird, I have to weave my way through buildings to get to other areas of the map a bird would just simply fly over to get to, I feel like the same goes for scanners, if we could just be able to fly over buildings that would be amazing

They're there for optimisation reasons afaik. A teleporter up there might be good though.

 

[Kinglightning07]

They're there for optimisation reasons afaik. A teleporter up there might be good though.

perhaps, and that would actually make a lot more sense to have, this is because the rooves are part of the skybox, so flying over them would cause people to see any actual map objects right through them

 

[Conundrum]

perhaps, and that would actually make a lot more sense to have, this is because the rooves are part of the skybox, so flying over them would cause people to see any actual map objects right through them

This is already the case with most of Indigent to begin with.

 

[Deleted member 1711]

You guys have no idea how Source optimization and Skyboxes work, do you?

 

[Kinglightning07]

You guys have no idea how Source optimization and Skyboxes work, do you?

fine, tell us what you know about source optimization and skyboxes

 

[Alfie]

fine, tell us what you know about source optimization and skyboxes

Go make CP noises in VC

 

[Kinglightning07]

Go make CP noises in VC

stop harassing me, you keep on asking me to make CP noises, just stop, it's not funny anymore

 

[Deleted member 1711]

fine, tell us what you know about source optimization and skyboxes

With pleasure, I've been doing map dev for nearly 6 years.

All Source engine areas are essentially just boxes/rooms, regardless of whether it's an outside space or an indoor space. Outdoor spaces are just sealed by a flat Skybox brush, and a 3D surface is project out from in from a separate entity. This 3D Skybox is a separate area at 1/16th (by default) scale, so the flat collision and visibility of the 2D skybox brush still holds true.

Because all Source areas are technically "indoor" spaces, the way it calculates visibility is through something called visleafs. Visleafs and clusters represent the area of what should be rendered and visible at any given time to a player standing in it.

For example, say we have these two rooms:

The blue skybox brush seals both of them from each other, so they don't generate any visleafs (red) that touch. That means if you're in room 1, you won't be rendering room 2 at all.

On the other hand, if you DO add gaps between the rooms where the skybox is not perfectly sealing them off, you get something like this:

Because the visleafs now have shared paths, you're going to be rendering twice the amount of world that you otherwise wouldn't be able to see. There are ways to reduce the performance hit this has, but nothing you can do is as good not having them to begin with.

 

[Kinglightning07]

With pleasure, I've been doing map dev for nearly 6 years.

All Source engine areas are essentially just boxes/rooms, regardless of whether it's an outside space or an indoor space. Outdoor spaces are just sealed by a flat Skybox brush, and a 3D surface is project out from in from a separate entity. This 3D Skybox is a separate area at 1/16th (by default) scale, so the flat collision and visibility of the 2D skybox brush still holds true.

Because all Source areas are technically "indoor" spaces, the way it calculates visibility is through something called visleafs. Visleafs and clusters represent the area of what should be rendered and visible at any given time to a player standing in it.

For example, say we have these two rooms:
View attachment 4698
The blue skybox brush seals both of them from each other, so they don't generate any visleafs (red) that touch. That means if you're in room 1, you won't be rendering room 2 at all.

On the other hand, if you DO add gaps between the rooms where the skybox is not perfectly sealing them off, you get something like this:
View attachment 4699
Because the visleafs now have shared paths, you're going to be rendering twice the amount of world that you otherwise wouldn't be able to see. There are ways to reduce the performance hit this has, but nothing you can do is as good not having them to begin with.

so we would just want teleportation then, so if I were to fly into one side of the blue, it would TP me to the other side

 

[Deleted member 1711]

so we would just want teleportation then, so if I were to fly into one side of the blue, it would TP me to the other side

In theory that would work, but it will also teleport anything that went through it. I'm also not 100% sure you can teleport NPCs, because Scanners are actually just NPCs plastered onto a player if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Oebelysk]

so we would just want teleportation then, so if I were to fly into one side of the blue, it would TP me to the other side

that would be an ungodly amount of work for a pretty useless faction

 

[Merlinsclaw]

Suggestion for the update:

1. Make the Streets Tighter
- The large open grand streets are cool looking. They leave alot of empty space though which as a result spreads out R.P.
- It's a problem that all three versions of the map have suffered from. Having condensed streets gives a husle-bustle type of feel for the city. 80 People on feel like there's actually 80 people on. This is especially true for Victory Square and Triumph.
- City 8 is a great example of how layout should be. Slim streets, different shops, so on and so forth.
- This is a big point!!! Condense the RP!

2. Add a more slummish feel to the rest of the City to promote Crime RP.
- Crime and shady shit can only exist currently in the actual Slums. Add a more slummish feel to where C.P's actually can patrol.
- Make car fires, vertical areas, and generally shady areas more common for cops and civilians alike. Get Crime RP bumping.

3. Add a variety of shops.
- Add a designated bar similar to that of the Grizzly Grotto that is *meant* to be a bar and not a standard store.
- Space out the shops a bit instead of two rows of 5 shops. It gets clamped and overwhelming.
- Make a designated nightclub sorta store to also get that different sort of RP rolling.
- Maybe a factory-esque store for people who want to run industrial stores?

 

[Das]

Expanding onto what Merlin said about the shops. Please get rid of shared backrooms and have all shops at least have room for the front, a storage room, and an office space. If the store is specifically catered to one type of permit like food or alcohol then a kitchen or bar should be included. As it stands there are too many doors between stores and it doesn't make sense for Victory businesses.

Also, the difference between Indigent and Triumph is too big. There should be more alleyways and the entire street needs to be condensed down with more buildings like small coffee shops and take-out joints. It feels entirely useless as most people use it to get to Victory or Indigent. It should feel like a lower middle class area while Indigent is a more working class and unemployed area. Willard Street needs to feel like an upper class district. High class luxury shops, loyalist clothing store, and perhaps a club? Victory is the middle to upper middle class and it does a good job but it completely overshadows the rest. The city feels dead, especially when we have 80 people on, and it's the reason why there isn't any interesting roleplay most of the time.

 

[ghostuspokus]

Please give Victory-5's hatch door room an actual lockable door. And everything else Das said involving the businesses.

 

[hawke]

Suggestion for the update:

1. Make the Streets Tighter
- The large open grand streets are cool looking. They leave alot of empty space though which as a result spreads out R.P.
- It's a problem that all three versions of the map have suffered from. Having condensed streets gives a husle-bustle type of feel for the city. 80 People on feel like there's actually 80 people on. This is especially true for Victory Square and Triumph.
- City 8 is a great example of how layout should be. Slim streets, different shops, so on and so forth.
- This is a big point!!! Condense the RP!

2. Add a more slummish feel to the rest of the City to promote Crime RP.
- Crime and shady shit can only exist currently in the actual Slums. Add a more slummish feel to where C.P's actually can patrol.
- Make car fires, vertical areas, and generally shady areas more common for cops and civilians alike. Get Crime RP bumping.

3. Add a variety of shops.
- Add a designated bar similar to that of the Grizzly Grotto that is *meant* to be a bar and not a standard store.
- Space out the shops a bit instead of two rows of 5 shops. It gets clamped and overwhelming.
- Make a designated nightclub sorta store to also get that different sort of RP rolling.
- Maybe a factory-esque store for people who want to run industrial stores?

Basically, this.

The current layout from the rebel end is so bottlenecked, its almost pointless leaving the slums considering both entrances are so essentially shielded and blocked off if there's any sort of attack.

Not the best with layout drawing but the current road plan as you can see gives Combine a huge edge and doesn't really promote anti-citizen RP.

Preferably, you'd want alleyways and spots for ACs and rebels to make their way all around the city. The big APC entrance with the gate to the plaza for one is absolutely useless spot that could be turned into an alleyway that loops around the city and connects Willard street.

 

[Das]

Basically, this.

The current layout from the rebel end is so bottlenecked, its almost pointless leaving the slums considering both entrances are so essentially shielded and blocked off if there's any sort of attack.

Not the best with layout drawing but the current road plan as you can see gives Combine a huge edge and doesn't really promote anti-citizen RP.

Preferably, you'd want alleyways and spots for ACs and rebels to make their way all around the city. The big APC entrance with the gate to the plaza for one is absolutely useless spot that could be turned into an alleyway that loops around the city and connects Willard street.

Expanding on this. It's fine having the rebel HQ being centralized in the slums but if all attacks are coming from that one spot, it's completely pointless as they're just going to get cut off and killed. Additional routes create a sense of unpredictability and an actual threat to officers and loyalists alike.