Discussion Civil Protection Complaints, Criticism, and Concerns (T6 CCC)

[ashley]

CIVIL PROTECTION COMPLAINTS, CRITICISM, AND CONCERNS

This thread serves as the basic CCC thread for the Civil Protection faction.
Post any complaints, criticism, or concerns about the faction here, independent on whether you're whitelisted or not.
No format required, we want to hear your input on the faction, regardless of how negative it might be interpreted.
​

 

[Lost Coast Chanties]

my civlpro complaint


why does the dark part not go all the way to the edge, my ocd makes me want to punch the screen and possibly cause a bleedout timer irl

edit: @joe moter do you have bandages

 

[Bighomer]

(Personal thoughts and reflection on the current state of cops we have within D1 and T6.
A bit of a long post, as always grab your reading glasses)

Spoiler: Theme

---

Cops are an essential element of any HL2RP server, I think everyone can agree on that.
The main oppressors, the big bad guys civilians see when they first join the server and walk around the map, trying to find things to do.

I’ve begun to notice a dramatic shift from what was in V2, where ‘robocops’ have been either entirely washed away and replaced with ‘civilian cops’.
I’m beginning to notice how civilians don’t exactly have a reason not to join Civil Protection anymore, since as of now they have the most content, have all of the benefits, can go off-duty and do as they please and generally can do everything a civvie’ can do with the added benefit of having a gun.

​

When there’s more than two GMs managing over a faction and having the most activities compared to a regular Joe Schmoe, you begin to notice a pattern that T6 has a ratio of 1:3 in terms of cops and civvies’.
For example:
(Almost 10 cops in a 20 pop’ server, an actual 1:2 ratio)

What’s the point in having so many cops if there’s barely any civilians to police over?

What’s the point of being a civvie’ when there’s not much for them to do besides wander around and try to chit-chat with people.

I’ve heard this argument before that the main detriment of being a cop is the chance of dying.
You are more likely to die since you’re dealing with a lot more zombies and stand at the risk of being killed off by civvies’.
But as it stands?
No, that’s not what is happening with cops.
Most cops either die by the hands of other cops or by their own actions.

There’s no real outside threat the cops should be afraid of, they aren’t afraid to take off their mask or reveal their identity either, unlike in V2.

I think this looser, less strict behaviour was fine for D1, since Civil Protection was still in the early stages of becoming an institutionalized organ of oppression, and many districts/cities still had local police remnants like the Precinct Satellite.

However, I heard that this type of attitude will be kept until D7, which I find to be silly due to the added pressure from the Captaincy and the attempts to reform the Precinct Satellite into a Civil Protection garrison.
Naturally, this type of intra-departmental conflict between Civil Protection reformers and Precinct loyalists could serve as great IC factional drama, but there have been little developments since even before the end of District 1.

---

The issue of events and content stems from the ET team being non-existent, as we speak...
I can only name four ETs that generally do stuff for civvies’, that would be Badger, Leko, Nath and I suppose Reece.

Three of those people are leads that are supposed to coordinate and manage over the events, I begin to wonder: "Where are the rest of the event team?".
Well, I see that three members of them are busy managing a faction.. and the rest don’t wish to contribute to the event in any way whatsoever.

Making the aforementioned problem even worse.
That the cops have much more to do compared to the regular Joe Schmoe.

---

Now, I think a balance would be more reasonable in T6, compared to the continuation of the downtrodden, heavily staffed, heavily armed friend-group of civvies that is the Precinct Satellite (a bit harsh of a statement, but I am wording it like this to drive the point in about the current state of the CivPro within T6).


I think shifting cops to somewhere around 5-7 would be far more reasonable than outright civvie’ cops.
There are good depictions of these types of cops in media and even in the real world!
Shows like Andor or films like ‘Red Code Blue’.
Or in the real world: post-Soviet collapse police forces in the 90’s.

There should be a balance between corruption, civilian-like behavior and robocop-esque aggression in CivPro.

---

Spoiler: Theme 2

I know the current CivPro leads want to divert themselves from V2 cops as much as possible, but there always has to be a balance, otherwise a whole new can of problems will arise in D7 and will be as painful to solve as it was in V2.
The aesthetic I believe the cop leads want to aim for is far more gritty, grimy and realistic, but it doesn’t come across like that as we speak.
The cops are human, sure, but they aren’t fleshed out more or are grimy to begin with, they feel more akin to conscripts at times.


We could do much more with the CivPro/Precinct Satellite, make them more than 'civilians with benefits' or 'robocops' that it’s painful to see how it’s being twisted from one direction to another without seeking some sort of balance.

They have made cops more human and interesting for civilians to communicate without being stonewalled.
Not to mention the fact it feels like there’s far less civilians than cops on the server that makes it less enjoyable for civilians down the line when they try to interact with the cops in any negative way.

A limit to the amount of cops that can be online should be put in place and some changes to how cops operate should be put in place.

I’m not writing this post to bash the current cops into the ground.
No, I believe the Precinct Satellite/CivPro could be something really good and interesting in the far future for all players involved.
But needs a lot of adjustments for it to be perfect.

 

[ashley]

(Personal thoughts and reflection on the current state of cops we have within D1 and T6.
A bit of a long post, as always grab your reading glasses)

Spoiler: Theme

---

Cops are an essential element of any HL2RP server, I think everyone can agree on that.
The main oppressors, the big bad guys civilians see when they first join the server and walk around the map, trying to find things to do.

I’ve begun to notice a dramatic shift from what was in V2, where ‘robocops’ have been either entirely washed away and replaced with ‘civilian cops’.
I’m beginning to notice how civilians don’t exactly have a reason not to join Civil Protection anymore, since as of now they have the most content, have all of the benefits, can go off-duty and do as they please and generally can do everything a civvie’ can do with the added benefit of having a gun.

View attachment 54041​

When there’s more than two GMs managing over a faction and having the most activities compared to a regular Joe Schmoe, you begin to notice a pattern that T6 has a ratio of 1:3 in terms of cops and civvies’.
For example:
(Almost 10 cops in a 20 pop’ server, an actual 1:2 ratio)
View attachment 54042
What’s the point in having so many cops if there’s barely any civilians to police over?

What’s the point of being a civvie’ when there’s not much for them to do besides wander around and try to chit-chat with people.

I’ve heard this argument before that the main detriment of being a cop is the chance of dying.
You are more likely to die since you’re dealing with a lot more zombies and stand at the risk of being killed off by civvies’.
But as it stands?
No, that’s not what is happening with cops.
Most cops either die by the hands of other cops or by their own actions.

There’s no real outside threat the cops should be afraid of, they aren’t afraid to take off their mask or reveal their identity either, unlike in V2.

I think this looser, less strict behaviour was fine for D1, since Civil Protection was still in the early stages of becoming an institutionalized organ of oppression, and many districts/cities still had local police remnants like the Precinct Satellite.

However, I heard that this type of attitude will be kept until D7, which I find to be silly due to the added pressure from the Captaincy and the attempts to reform the Precinct Satellite into a Civil Protection garrison.
Naturally, this type of intra-departmental conflict between Civil Protection reformers and Precinct loyalists could serve as great IC factional drama, but there have been little developments since even before the end of District 1.

---

The issue of events and content stems from the ET team being non-existent, as we speak...
I can only name four ETs that generally do stuff for civvies’, that would be Badger, Leko, Nath and I suppose Reece.

Three of those people are leads that are supposed to coordinate and manage over the events, I begin to wonder: "Where are the rest of the event team?".
Well, I see that three members of them are busy managing a faction.. and the rest don’t wish to contribute to the event in any way whatsoever.

Making the aforementioned problem even worse.
That the cops have much more to do compared to the regular Joe Schmoe.

---

Now, I think a balance would be more reasonable in T6, compared to the continuation of the downtrodden, heavily staffed, heavily armed friend-group of civvies that is the Precinct Satellite (a bit harsh of a statement, but I am wording it like this to drive the point in about the current state of the CivPro within T6).
View attachment 54044

I think shifting cops to somewhere around 5-7 would be far more reasonable than outright civvie’ cops.
There are good depictions of these types of cops in media and even in the real world!
Shows like Andor or films like ‘Red Code Blue’.
Or in the real world: post-Soviet collapse police forces in the 90’s.

There should be a balance between corruption, civilian-like behavior and robocop-esque aggression in CivPro.

---

Spoiler: Theme 2

I know the current CivPro leads want to divert themselves from V2 cops as much as possible, but there always has to be a balance, otherwise a whole new can of problems will arise in D7 and will be as painful to solve as it was in V2.
The aesthetic I believe the cop leads want to aim for is far more gritty, grimy and realistic, but it doesn’t come across like that as we speak.
The cops are human, sure, but they aren’t fleshed out more or are grimy to begin with, they feel more akin to conscripts at times.
View attachment 54045
View attachment 54046
We could do much more with the CivPro/Precinct Satellite, make them more than 'civilians with benefits' or 'robocops' that it’s painful to see how it’s being twisted from one direction to another without seeking some sort of balance.

They have made cops more human and interesting for civilians to communicate without being stonewalled.
Not to mention the fact it feels like there’s far less civilians than cops on the server that makes it less enjoyable for civilians down the line when they try to interact with the cops in any negative way.
View attachment 54047
A limit to the amount of cops that can be online should be put in place and some changes to how cops operate should be put in place.
View attachment 54048
I’m not writing this post to bash the current cops into the ground.
No, I believe the Precinct Satellite/CivPro could be something really good and interesting in the far future for all players involved.
But needs a lot of adjustments for it to be perfect.

Rather than responding to each segment individually, I'll address the post as a whole in a couple of paragraphs, given that a lot of your post goes in circles around the same exact point you've brought up segments earlier.​

The main points of your post go into depth about 'ratio issues', 'cops being too friendly', and 'citizens having nothing to do'. I'll address these points below.

---

RATIO ISSUES

I'll clarify, just from the get-go, that we will never enforce an OOC ratio rule for players. We'll enforce IC mandates to get people to go ten-seven, while being able to roleplay their character as they normally would. We're not in the 2014 era of Clockwork where we should ever have to force people off of their character just because of the faction they're playing as. It's illogical to even consider it as something we should implement from an OOC perspective.

Not to dismiss your criticism on the ratio issues the server inevitably suffers from, but it is something that will likely be fixed after the prologue concludes, given that a large majority of the player-base doesn't want to log on just for that reason alone; the fact that we're in a prologue-segment of the server rather than on main.

---

COPS BEING TOO FRIENDLY

Civil Protection, or PRESAT in this case have grown to be more antagonistic over the past week, compared to the first weeks we had on the Terminal 6 map. This was subtly enforced with the introduction of a disarmament that Civi-Pro units are required to adhere to with the usage of random pat-downs, and the fact that they've to appease to the Captaincy with the current Civi-Pro expedition a majority of the faction is undertaking right now.

We're not here to force people to be beatcops OOCly, nor will we ever do that. ICly, yes, we've been taking note of the characters who have been growing soft, and shaping them to be what we want to see the faction as in the future, but never will we enforce an OOC mandate to force players act in a certain manner.

We do not want to see the members of the faction act like NPC's, and would rather instead see their character develop themselves out over however long they're to keep that character around for, given that well, they are characters.

To conclude this point, we are in the prologue part of the entire server as a whole; things don't go from point A to point B in a matter of hours, absolutely not. The current expedition that the HC's are running will further develop the faction as a whole and shape it to be something akin to what people consider to be 'Civil Protection' rather than a group of people signing up only for the benefits and not much else.

---

CITIZENS HAVING NOTHING TO DO

I find it presumptuous to assume that our responsibilities as HC's of the faction interfere with our ET responsibilities. Nezoose, and myself, have taken the initative to create a pseudo-faction for any citizen to interact with and apply for ICly. We have found a balance between both of these responsibilities, and the faction as a whole has been operating just fine without constant direct intervention from the faction management side of things.

In turn, this pseudo-faction of sorts provides citizens with something to do, while having little to no correlation to the Civil Protection faction as a whole.

Regardless of it, we've made efforts of including the citizens in activities that do correlate to the Civil Protection faction, be it by the usage of constructing barricades, assisting with infestations, or whatever else we can.

Suggesting that the Event Team is practically non-existent is disrespectful to each and every Event Team member that you haven't mentioned.

---

 

[Omega]

Suggesting that the Event Team is practically non-existent is disrespectful to each and every Event Team member that you haven't mentioned.

I’m sorry to say Ashley, this very much is the case. You can check the stats on who’s been answering tickets, and the four Homer mentioned have insane numbers. I understand seeing this as a member of the Event Team and feeling offended, but I think what Homer was saying was miscommunicated a bit. It’s clear people like you, Nezoose, and Nora are doing stuff for the server, however you’re also running a faction. So by definition you’re not going to be doing as much as Leko. There’s nothing wrong with that, but I do think there’s a serious activity problem with the greater ET.

 

[ashley]

I’m sorry to say Ashley, this very much is the case. You can check the stats on who’s been answering tickets, and the four Homer mentioned have insane numbers. I understand seeing this as a member of the Event Team and feeling offended, but I think what Homer was saying was miscommunicated a bit. It’s clear people like you, Nezoose, and Nora are doing stuff for the server, however you’re also running a faction. So by definition you’re not going to be doing as much as Leko. There’s nothing wrong with that, but I do think there’s a serious activity problem with the greater ET.

Answering tickets from players does not equal making events/orchestrating things for the server as a whole.

There is a serious activity problem within the Event Team as a whole, yes, but this does not correlate with the Civil Protection faction.

Regardless, I'm not going to post the ticket statistics for all to see here, given that it's in a private sub-forum as is, but if we're to adhere to the argument that 'ticket statistics = event making', then why aren't Czesui, Nath, Nezoose, or myself on that list?

 

[Omega]

but if we're to adhere to the argument that 'ticket statistics = event making', then why aren't Czesui, Nath, Nezoose, or myself on that list?

Czesui is a member of staff, not the Event Team. Nath is the Lead of the Event Team (and WAS included in the list), and you an Nezoose were mentioned as being active, but busy managing a faction.

 

[ashley]

Czesui is a member of staff, not the Event Team. Nath is the Lead of the Event Team (and WAS included in the list), and you an Nezoose were mentioned as being active, but busy managing a faction.

Misread the post and people mentioned, apologies.

Regardless; what correlation does this have with the Civil Protection faction, and how do the ticket statistics correlate to the orchestration of events for citizens? There are multiple players that weren't mentioned that have a minimal amount of tickets, but a huge influence on the citizen faction as a whole.

Take Limeao's Xen Forest as an example, and compare it to their ticket logs. They've put in a massive amount of effort into creating something for the entire server, mainly citizens to interact with, and yet their contribution isn't reflected in ticket activity, nor was it brought up in the OP.

So, I ask again, what correlation do ticket statistics have with the coordination of events as a whole?

 

[TheGamingPlumber]

More tickets don't equate to you doing more, when majority of tickets are "Hey, I'm stuck" or "Hey, I need a refund," etc., lots of them aren't even related to "Need a GM for X."

 

[Omega]

So, I ask again, what correlation do ticket statistics have with the coordination of events as a whole?

It’s just a general show of activity. It’s not 100% guaranteed to be accurate, but I’d still say tickets answered is a decent metric to look at when it comes to activity. You’re right about Limeao’s events, but it’s also using a single line from my reply to you to try and discount Homer’s entire point. That being that the majority of the Event Team is not active.