Complaint/Curiosity regarding CP raid

[Tengu]

Hello, I wanna start off by saying I don't know if this is where to post a complaint. If not, apologies, and if I could ask to have it relocated.
This isn't so much of a complaint, as it is my curiosity.. my frustration of the situation, and all that. I don't hold anything against anyone, and I hope nothing is taken personally as it's not my intention!

So earlier today, I was having issues with steam not allowing me to connect/login. I was on the server for a bit and then I got a reconnecting/disconnecting message typical with crashing or losing connection, and couldn't retry my connection to the server. I took a small break to make some food, and when I finally came back (20 or 30 minutes later), I noticed all the locks on everything in our apartment base were gone. It was brought to my attention by @swagile that we had been raided by Civil Protection during the time I was gone.

Spoiler: Msg log

These messages followed an @ to staff regarding missing workbenches and locks, knowing benches had disappeared.
[PM] Michael Anderson (booile): you got raided by civil protection
[PM] »Michael Anderson (booile): wait what?
[PM] Michael Anderson (booile): those containers no longer exist icly
[PM] »Michael Anderson (booile): when? I got dc'd by steam for like.. 10 minutes
[PM] Michael Anderson (booile): like ... 20-30 mins ago?
[PM] »Michael Anderson (booile): before I crashed from server, nothing had happened. I just logged back in and we were raided?
[PM] Michael Anderson (booile): ye they were here for quite a bit... they were at Indigent-2 for an inspection then came here
[PM] »Michael Anderson (booile): so there's nothing that can be done for it/ would be? I figured they needed someone online to raid it. Wish I could have grabbed the stuff I just stored before that happened but it's cool. ;-;
[PM] Michael Anderson (booile): you can appeal it on forums if you feel its unfair; i presume they targetted you for a reason
[PM] Michael Anderson (booile): CP's can provide their reasoning
[PM] »Michael Anderson (booile): I might.. I hate that steam issue caused me to not be able to reequip my stuff and go back to sewers like I had planned to, but who knows.
[PM] Michael Anderson (booile): ye just make a complaint and such and CP's will explain their reasoning
[PM] »Michael Anderson (booile): it is what it is, thank you for letting me know <3
[PM] »Michael Anderson (booile): I'm sure they had reasons.. not like this place was secret
[PM] Michael Anderson (booile): mhm
[PM] »Michael Anderson (booile): out of curiousity. The rule regarding base raids requiring an online player/owner. I take it that doesn't count for CP's?
[PM] Michael Anderson (booile): it counts but i saw you on during the raid. i presume you dc'd midway since i didn't see you get off
[PM] Michael Anderson (booile): i was eating dinner for the other half of the raid

I will say that while I was still online, I did hear vocoders within the bounds of Indigent, but I saw CP's around Indigent-2 and didn't hear them outside my apartment, as I was inside the apartment at the time. My intention after hearing them in indigent was to gear back up from my civilian attire and flee to the tunnels where I know I could escape should anything happen that would bring me in danger, however with connectivity to Steam as it was.. That was not a plan I could follow.


Editing this awhile after originally writing this post, as things have been brought to my attention that caused a change of mind and understanding. Changed a lot of this post, and I didn't want to start over so I altered most of it. Sorry it's a mess..

Spoiler: Discord DM

I was informed via discord DM by swagile at the time of editing this. With their understanding of the situation, SRF was the cause of the civil protection raid.
I don't know if this is true or not, as I don't have access to CP or staff information.. However..
If this is true, and we weren't the reason for civil protection to raid indigent/apartments, but a group that I don't really know anything about, then I would hope that we could be spared the loss of everything we had worked for the last week+, including our apartments.
Granted.. I'm sure the civil protection raid was bound to happen eventually, considering our base wasn't exactly hidden.. and we've been quite active in the apartment building as a whole. But the fact remains that if they didn't come for our base specifically, but rather that of what they assumed was SRF.. It's my hope that if something can come of posting this, that it be considered. If not, no big deal. Scripts are nothing, if not reobtainable, and at the end of the day.. there is fun to still be had.
But for multiple containers, benches and all that to be wiped away, I would be foolish not to at least inquire with this post.
Noone likes progress being destroyed if they can help it, so hopefully my reason for posting is understood, even if nothing comes of it.

 

[vilhjalmrf]

Hello, I'm not exactly the one who lead the raid on your base as another Unit took lead since they knew where it was. I was just in for the ride and to oversee the raid. Before the crash I do believe we were told it was a SRF base and that we can raid it in CP (/cp) chat by an admin. For the life of me I cannot remember the admin's name. Hopefully one of them happens to see this post to confirm it.


(This next paragraph is somewhat off-topic and more of the events leading up to the raid.)
After the crash has ended, we were at Indigent-two escorting a DoB worker inspecting the building. When inspection was over, we walked back out to Triumph street. Then UNION-5 I believe is the one who told me about your base. I told them to ask staff to see if the owners of the base were online. Staff responded saying owners were online. And after that, you already know the story.

I would like to note however, sometime between last week to the 17th of this month, we did previously came over to your base before. We attempted to raid it before but you weren't online so we ignored your base. I believe DEFENDER-0 (@Light ) is the one who led the patrol at the time and possibly has the information or an explanation. From my understanding, we were sweeping CZ block and coordinating with an informant. They brought us to your base but as said before, you weren't online. I think the informant was Lombarda.

I will notify the one who led the raid of this post.

 

[Asimo1234]

Right, hello. UNION-5 here. The person who indeed lead the two raids on the base. (More on why two later)

Reading your post there might have been a giant fuck-up and we might have accidentally hit the wrong base

To start of, somewhere during the evening, Civil Protection was notified ICly of a base's existence at the top floor of Slum housing. We had an admin verify if this information was not metagamed, which they reported it wasn't. The specific admin in question was @Leudoberct
At this point, I was ordered to assemble a PT an raid the place. As to the directions we were provided:
"Once you walk up the stairs, you take a right and go all the way to the end"
This lead us to a metal door with the text "This is locked" or something on it. While we were busy with a lad holding a knife and wearing a bandanna, an admin approached and notified us that since nobody was online we couldn't raid the place and proceeded to leave.

A couple hours later, after doing the Indigent-2 inspection, I opted to use the PT to re-raid the place. We asked an admin if there were sufficient people online and they told us there were. The admin in question is @Neonity if I remember correctly.
At this point we went ahead and busted your doors down. And while we did find containers, we absolutely located NO crafting benches etc. We also didn't take any of your items as per raid rules in case of appeal. Thus I have no idea why everything is gone as your reported.

Now to where the fuck up might have happened, Leudobrect stated that since the origin of the information had knowledge of "The SLF" base, we raided what we thought was the SLF base considering the directions given.
If you indeed had absolutely NOTHING to do with the SLF and your base is not the SLF base, then I encourage the admins to take another look at the information source to see if it was valid. But considering admin procedures, I doubt they screwed up.
Remember, admins have a list for every ICly locked door with character names of who can enter. If someone on that list goes through the door with someone near them, the other person is now also added to that door and can use the information.

The fact you were AFK while the "online count" was happening is unfortunate, but even if the raid is reversed on that technicality, I doubt staff would allow you to get gear from the base considering the fact that it is going to be raided is now public knowledge, but ICly it wouldn't be.

 

[Tengu]

And while we did find containers, we absolutely located NO crafting benches etc. We also didn't take any of your items as per raid rules in case of appeal. Thus I have no idea why everything is gone as your reported.

Sorry, to clarify. You didn't destroy the benches or anything, I didn't mean for it to sound like that. Those were gone due to the crashes to my knowledge.. I included that part in the @ to staff because I assumed that the locks had vanished due to the crashes as well.

 

[Neonity]

Workbenches were gone due to crash. Locks were gone because I reset the password manually after the raid.

While they may have hit the wrong base, it’s not considered hidden so they didn’t really need someone to snitch to find it or anything. The only requirement was somebody with access being online, which there was.

So as far as I know the raid is valid and you just got unlucky.

 

[Light]

We did indeed had Lombarda snitch on your base on the 14th(not the 17th). I led a patrol to take it out but unfortunately you were offline. I was told that your base was reported even earlier to civil protection by Lombarda as well as since you weren't online we couldn't do anything - these raids were carried out by Union-5 if I recall and his statement is above.

The raid was a LONG time coming - the problem we have is that we get reports but we're forced to abandon them or we forget them because of inactivity or timezone differences on behalf of the owner - as a result, we legitimately forgot the information we had because we have no way of knowing you're online.
To be honest, if we were allowed to raid while you were offline, I would have, because of how well known your base was to us.
There were multiple status updates regarding this base for civil protection - but they were more than likely drowned out by yesterday, since it would've been 4 days since our last (my) patrol to raid your apartment.

Turns out that we randomly inspected your apartment on our way to get an SRF base - which shouldn't be very surprising, you lived in the CZ block, which we raid frequently.
If you get your stuff back and this is voided - we literally have the information to raid you again, this isn't a threat, but there'd be no point because we already do have info the whereabouts and that rebel activity is there, the only limiting factor has been you being online.

 

[Leudoberct]

Hi,

In regards to the prior authorisation, this was confirmation that Civil Protection were fully able to raid the SRF base, as an individual with access to said base gave up its location. If there was a miscommunication of which base was the SRF base, then I apologise. However, as previously stated in the thread, due to your base not being hidden (including that it had previously been informed on before), the only necessity was that the owner was online for Civil Protection to raid it.

 

[AppleFlavoredFox]

I can actually attest as one of my characters did give up the location of the SRF base, purely because i was bribed to do so, with... Well quite a nice reward. But yeah your base got caught by accident, the directions i gave were specifically. "Third floor, apartments, up the stairs, all the way at the end of the long hall." I do apologize that this happened. As it was not intended. But look at it this way, this is why its always recommended to have stashes all over the slums. Its something us rebels did all the time before the break. I sorta see it still happening but not to the scale that it should. People are confiding too much into bases again. Spread out a bit if you have to to avoid stuff like this again.

 

[radreaper100]

cope

hey

time and a place, dont be a prick

anyway ya my char previously reported the base to civil protection a few days ago

 

[albertossic]

While they may have hit the wrong base, it’s not considered hidden

Hi, I just wanted to add to this because this point bothers me a little:

When I was building the props in front of the base (the metal door), I was explicitly forbidden from making my base hidden, and the admin who gave me the physgun (@slick) only gave it to me under the condition that I only place the one door and am absolutely not allowed to hide it

So now I would consider it a little annoying if failure to conceal the base would be held to my detriment in a raid that was conducted while I was offline, because I intended to hide the base or at least reinforce the entrance and was explicitly forbidden from doing so

And to me it sounds a little like if I had simply been allowed to hide the entrance to the point it required IC knowledge (like was always the case with all the prior factions using that apartment as a base), this "routine check" would not have occured

 

[Tengu]

I am awake, and have read everything.

Granted.. I'm sure the civil protection raid was bound to happen eventually, considering our base wasn't exactly hidden.. and we've been quite active in the apartment building as a whole.

anyway ya my char previously reported the base to civil protection

As I said before, I knew civil protection would come knocking eventually. The information of our base, whether hidden or not, was discovered and snitched on a while ago.
I just wanted to get some opinions and other sides of the story for the sake of curiosity to see if anything could come of it since it was originally a raid planned for a different groups base.
If this was unavoidable and just poor timing for my sake, then so be it. It's alright, and I have no issues with it happening since it was always going to happen. Ty all for the replies.

 

[swagile]

Since this was a legitimate raid and the questions were answered, I will be locking this thread.

The base containers will not be refunded but workbenches can be brought back if asked for by the player since they disappeared due to the crash bug.

Base rules have also been updated so confusion like this shouldn't be as prevalent.