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Crack down harder on the N-Bomb

  • Thread starter Thread starter Conair
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Conair

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When the merger was announced, in a staff talk with Rad-X we were told that racism (and thusly the N) bomb would be curbed in the discord.
As of writing there are 184 counts of the N-bomb with a hard R as well as 517 with a soft A. This seems like a fundamental breach in trust, a back peddle on a promise and a compromise on community integrity. Please do not allow racism to be cultivated within the community ESPECIALLY by your staff :)


Issue: N Bomb.

How to solve it: Apply a bot to filter out the words and punish those which bypass the bot with creative solutions

Result: Greater community cohesion and a more family friendly atmosphere :)

Addendum: This also applies to other forms of racism not just including slurs i.e. EvilSneeryJew.emote
 
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Yep
It just makes the community seem shittier. The worst that'll happen if this is approved is that we'll lose some players because the ones spamming it end up quitting. The best that'll happen is that we'll lose some players because the ones spamming it end up quitting.
 
I think the Shitposting channel should be left alone entirely. It is not there for high quality humor. It is purely what it advertises, low ball, low brain power, content.


As for the other channels? While I'm not one to be bothered by words personally, but I get plenty of people do get offended over such things. As a result the server should not be made into an environment for a certain selection of people. It should be be made as inclusive as possible, for as many people as possible, thus more content sensitive members should be considered as well.

I agree distasteful humor or hateful commentary, such as blatant racism, should be limited in most channels. It never adds anything to discussion and only serves as bait or intentionally shocking bites against other members. A general air of respect should blossom amongst members, and allowing people to constantly attack eachother using highly offensive language, or just generally create an uncomfortable environment does not help that at all.
 
While I am no higher authority on the server, I believe no words are banned or are going to be banned under the freedom policy. HOWEVER That doesn't mean we tolerate directed abuse towards people and actively being racist towards individuals is still a massive no no.

So I assume there will be no ban on the word Nigger or any of the "amazingly inventive" spin-offs

Wait for a comment from a CM however

Also can't force people to grow up and mature, its on them.

Also I strongly stand against bot mods, it's shockingly dystopian.
 
hey guys i really like your freedom policy! i appreciate that you let people do what you want and don't let feelings and emotions get in the way
let me just take about how great paedophilia is!! any kids on this server??

/s before i get fucking murdered
 
Whether someone using racist jokes is actually racist is debateable. It's a pointless argument for an RP server. What I have an issue with is levying punishment on individuals for rules that aren't written.

There's written rules, there's following what the admin tells you to do in the "Admin is always right clause" and then there's just throwing a label for breaking an unspoken rule. I have no regrets for what I said because, aside from 1-2 small exceptions, I have followed the rules written and followed what the CMs have placed on me (admin always right clause).

Decide to go through with this? Write it down. Don't go through with it? Don't punish people for it.
 
The freedom policy is non-negotiable

Because one little change is all it takes to fix something.....
Why is the freedom policy non-negotiable? Is it integral to the continuation of the community/server?

'We allow them to continue as long as they do not abuse their abilities given to them or make members feel unwelcome' is written in that freedom policy, but I've seen multiple examples of unwelcoming behaviour in the community (think the Jewish caricature emoji or slurs in general chats from Willard staff). Recently, more people have been voicing their opinion and saying that they do feel somewhat unwelcome.

Whether or not you're for or against censoring X, Y or Z, I think it's imperative you re-write the freedom policy to be much more clear and concise for these situations; we're a community hundreds strong, so it's going to be difficult to 'self-moderate' with vague and unspecific rulings.

Whether someone using racist jokes is actually racist is debateable. It's a pointless argument for an RP server. What I have an issue with is levying punishment on individuals for rules that aren't written.
If you want to make jokes in private, then who are we to stop you? However, I don't think this is a 'pointless argument', as it's clear that multiple people within the community feel strongly about this issue. I can definitely agree with your 'levying punishment' argument, however - the rules need to be much clearer so that they can actually be enforced; these jokes are allowed, or they aren't. Sitting in the middle doesn't make either side happy, hence the discussions we've been having recently.
 
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As for the actual complaint itself, I'm against it. Internal belief is vastly different from jests and jabs. In my instance, despite all I have personally said, I have no actual legitimate hatred for any ethnicity per individuals.

The idea that this sudden burden is now placed on those who jest, instead of on those who take offense with it, is unfair for the ability to say what someone wants to say.

To all this I say, if we really want to go about implementing this, do so with the exception of the shitposting channel. The long standing rule of shitposting is that, so long as it isn't literal spam, it is allowed.
 
Right. First CM to comment here.

What we can do in all honesty is ban the word from being used throughout the main channels. Leaving Shitposting alone and as it is. Reason being that not everyone is being serious and 100% meaning what they say. They may not have the intent to offend, no intent on actually being racist. You have to look at the context of what they are saying as in:

- Are they directing it towards another person in a position which may be hostile
- Are they clearly saying it in a context which is memeable, not serious.
- Does the person saying it have any past offences of actually being a racist.

That's one thing.

If you want to make jokes in private, then who are we to stop you? However, I don't think this is a 'pointless argument', as it's clear that multiple people within the community feel strongly about this issue. I can definitely agree with your 'levying punishment' argument, however - the rules need to be much clearer so that they can actually be enforced; these jokes are allowed, or they aren't. Sitting in the middle doesn't make either side happy, hence the discussions we've been having recently.
Yes, I think it is best we do take a look at our own guidelines and rules page on discord to see what we can make clearer to the players of what we do and do not tolerate.

Why is the freedom policy non-negotiable? Is it integral to the continuation of the community/server?

'We allow them to continue as long as they do not abuse their abilities given to them or make members feel unwelcome' is written in that freedom policy, but I've seen multiple examples of unwelcoming behaviour in the community (think the Jewish caricature emoji or slurs in general chats from Willard staff). Recently, more people have been voicing their opinion and saying that they do feel somewhat unwelcome.

Whether or not you're for or against censoring X, Y or Z, I think it's imperative you re-write the freedom policy to be much more clear and concise for these situations; we're a community hundreds strong, so it's going to be difficult to 'self-moderate' with vague and unspecific rulings.
The Freedom Policy itself is something that we don't want to remove, it is one of our core foundations since the beginning of TelsaCloud all the way through to Willard and has really let us voice that we do not want to restrict the players.

Now I can agree that there are individuals and commenters on Discord who certainly have not given the best of welcomes, and most of the individuals have been punished internally and been given warnings via Dyno (Hidden to players). Though there are some who do get through as staff aren't always watching every chat to see who is saying what and what the context is. It is becoming a common trend as of late which I now know as people are actually pointing it out now, to be I never would've noticed as I personally ignore a lot of the channels on every discord I am in.

And like I said above, it would be good for us to look over our policy and make things more clear to the player.

have you allowed it? yes. have staff actively refused to moderate it? yes. are staff doing anything against it? probably, yes. is it enough? no. will removing the freedom policy somewhat solve this? yes.
This is something we can honestly be open and transparent about as Internally, it may not have ever been addressed. While removing the policy is out of the question, changing it is not. It is always best to note that while our Gms are staff, they do not have the same power as staff on most servers. They do not have the ability to warn, kick or mute people for being an ass or breaking our guidelines or rules. They can do nothing but call a mod over... and learn to behave for those which do tend to say questionable stuff themselves.

Our mods on the other hand have the power, but they are not always looking at the discord either. While it is their job, they won't spend their time reading hundreds and hundreds of messages. Instead, we have now got a bot called "Admin BOT" in discord for people to DM to report users in a chat or you can tag moderators if and when needed if you find someone breaking a rule, then they can handle the situation accordingly.

Hope this at least answers some of your questions for now. We are meeting about this internally tomorrow.
 
Right. First CM to comment here.

What we can do in all honesty is ban the word from being used throughout the main channels. Leaving Shitposting alone and as it is. Reason being that not everyone is being serious and 100% meaning what they say. They may not have the intent to offend, no intent on actually being racist.
I think that's more than reasonable; I appreciate the fast response.
 
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At the very least, I think there should be a difference between hate speech and free speech (which there is, it's just not enforced), with the "n bomb" restricted to shitposting. Give people freedom to have whatever opinions they want, but there should be a line you can't cross; right now there isn't.
 
hey guys person who hasn't read the entire thread here with an inflexible opinion to share

genuine racism (aimed at making someone feel bad, not using the N word outside of the shitposting channel) and harrassment should be cracked down on

the shitposting thread has way worse things than the n word that can be located there most likely, and should almost certainly be left alone where possible
 
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You aren't 'restricting' players by restricting their rights to throw around the hard R or use the N word. You're building a community where everyone feels welcome.

WN is one of the only communities where you are openly allowed to say and do almost anything you want and that is frankly not a good thing. Most other communities grew out of that phase of staffing years ago because they realised that you do not attract people or maintain a playerbase by making your services seem like a dumpster fire where no measure of conduct or standards is actually enforced and where "grow thicker skin guys" or "self moderate" is the default response.

The sort of enviroment this 'total freedom' rule fosters is not one TN actually wants when you start getting the ball going. You're only setting yourselves up for far worse problems.

And that's without getting into the fact this was part of the deal that was made to merge with another community and it simply isn't being enforced.
 
genuine racism and harrassment should be cracked down on
This. No idea why staff are allowing it, especially since hostility/baiting isn't protected by the free speech rule and is technically not allowed.

You aren't 'restricting' players by restricting their rights to throw around the hard R or use the N word. You're building a community where everyone feels welcome.
This.

WN is one of the only communities where you are openly allowed to say and do almost anything you want and that is frankly not a good thing
Again, great. You're giving an extremely toxic community the ability to say/do whatever they want with no repercussions. I get why it was added but, it doesn't work. It's pushing people away.

I really think this needs to be reworked or restricted to certain channels
 
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