Damaging Mentality Regarding Scarcity and Conflict

[nath1234567]

Damaging Mentalities​

I'm going to be covering quite a lot in this post as I intend to highlight all the issues that I believe are plaguing Willard and Rebel RP right now. The server has seemingly seen a massive shift in priorities since we have arrived to Terminal 7, and I believe all factions except for Combine affiliated ones, excluding Civil Protection, have been damaged due to this. As always, the input of the community is appreciated.

The Rebel Roleplay Problem
​

Old players are bored of it, new players are confused as to how to participate in it. Rebel roleplay has stagnated into nothing status and it doesn't seem that there is any urgency in solving this issue.

Imagine that you are a new player who wants to roleplay as a member of the resistance. You join with no connections, no OOC friends, and a limited understanding of the gamemode.

You will probably catch on quickly enough that gathering materials from trash bags is important so that you can begin making things. But wait, all of these crafting recipes require glue, how do I get enough of that? The answer is, you don't.

You won't be getting enough to reliably do anything on your own. Instead, the solution is to make a CWU contact that can use your plastic to make adhesive for you with a fabricator. This priviledge is reserved for well established characters that know people within the CWU, and isn't something that comes easily.

This issue used to be non existent, as you were able to buy glue from smugglers and from stores, though this is painfully no longer the case. The current smuggler is nestled deep within the sewers, can only buy sixty items worth of scrap, and doesn't sell many useful things at all.

You're going to be hard pressed even visting her frequently with the rate that gas is gained in the sewers, and death by gas is for some reason a PK, as if there's any roleplay attached to dying to gas.

So, how do we solve this? My suggestion here is to move the smuggler closer to one of the sewer entrances, increase the amount of scrap she can purchase to pre rebel RP death initative, and give her some useful things to sell, namely glue. The old smuggler system needs to come back and fast, and gas needs to be lowered in the sewers by a very wide margin.

It was said once upon a time that the radio tower arc would be the introduction of smugglers back onto the server. Not only did the radio tower take a ridiculous amount of time to be repaired, but the smugglers took forever to be added after it was repaired as well, and the smuggler we got? Well, she really is doing nothing for anyone. She may as well have not even been added in her current state.

PATH TO PROGRESSION
​

I touched upon this but wish to expand here. The current rebel path to progression does not include much engaging roleplay and doesn't include any narrative impact toward the rest of the server. Your character will get involved with a group, grind trash bags to gain materials, and eventually be able to arm themselves with scrap weaponry.

What sort of impact do you get with scrap weaponry? Not much, you can kill zombies and antlions, but you certainly are not ready to take any sort of fight to the Combine. If you're lucky, you'll be able to involve yourself in an expedition to retrieve weapon blueprints to advance the black market and unlock some things for purchase.

The issue with these black market quests however, is that they have no narrative impact on the main server. They don't actually do anything except allow you to buy things later down the line, and since I've already covered how ineffective the only smuggler in the sewers is, good luck actually getting that done. You're still stuck to the mindless trash bag grind to acquire these items so that you can sell and get chips for these weapons anyway. If you're lucky, you might get some chips from quests that GMs like to run.

I'm proposing for this that the mentality where rebels have to earn all their equipment through quests for BMDs be changed. A real rebellion is going to see people going through great lengths to arm themselves and their allies with the weaponry they need to take the fight to their oppressors. They aren't going to bother with capitalistic exchanges, it makes little sense.

Expeditions where rebels walk away with equipment should be allowed to take place, provided that the risk they took is worth the reward they receive. These BMD quests can and should still happen, but it shouldn't be our only avenue to advance things.

It was said some time ago that the path to getting better equipment should be done through RP, but I haven't seen that happen. We are still regulated to an unenjoyable trash bag grind where we have to sell scrap for chips.

Rebel RP Areas​

There's basically no good rebel RP areas, which provides further damage to the server.

The outlands? Too cold, nobody can RP with you here unless they have max cold insulation. I'd rather not get PKed to a temperature death, as much RP as that would provide for the server (it would provide zero RP for anyone.)

The sewers? Too much gas, you will die and be PKed with no RP in less than an hour, and good luck getting to that smuggler.

The ideal solution to this is to lower the lethality of the gas in the sewers, and turn it off entirely for rooms that could be used as bases. Vortigaunts have the luxury of being able to base within the sewers because they do not generate gas points, and surprisingly enough they still roleplay outside of their sewers bases quite often.

The fear that players will do nothing except sit in their bases RPing with themselves (rp, mind you) isn't doing anything except damaging rebel roleplay. If a rebel group IS doing this, it is because they have literally no option. They've been marked with Anti-Citizen, which has always been a massive negative on your ability to roleplay with the server, but now? It's a complete death sentence, you may as well just delete your character entirely. (sorry to anyone that was a sentinel but you have effectively been removed from the server lol)

It has been said that rebel players will be able to RP solutions to removing the gas from potential sewer bases, but I don't think we should wait for this. Rebels will have to ICly figure out how to ventilate a single room of poisonous gas that is stuck in a sewer system, surrounded by more poisonous gas.

Note: I have been approved to set up quests related to repairing these sewer rooms for bases, which I will begin setting up today or tomorrow. I'm leaving this part of the post in however as I think it's very important to convey that yes, rebels do in fact need decent RP areas just like any other faction does. Allowing rebels to have bases doesn't harm the server.

Newer Note: Nevermind, I didn't get approved.

Civil Protection and Conflict​

I do not have a Civil Protection whitelist, so I don't have a first hand account of what the experience is like, but I wanted to talk on these guys anyway. From what I've observed, Civil Protection doesn't have much going on considering the lack of conflict and the state of Rebel RP.

For maybe the first time in Willard, there's no person or group that can stand against the Tyranny that the Civil Protection imposes onto the citizens.

The server seems far better off when Civil Protection is engaged in squashing out the rebels. It keeps them on their toes, creates a better environment and adds more to roleplay. Half-Life 2 is a game about shooting people, and conflict is a key component in nearly every roleplay setting.

Right now, Civil Protection don't seem to be getting much beyond being the guns to facilitate some CWU stuff like outlands mining, and protecting the city from panthereye attacks and other aliens.

The faction will benefit from conflict with rebels. We just need to make sure we're all on board with rebels not getting equipment that outclasses Civil Protection, which I think we all are. Rebels shouldn't be running around with anything more than SMGs, otherwise we'll go back to the same problems we had before.

Closing Notes

As I said I said at the start of this, community input is appreciated as I have made this post in hopes of improving the experience for all of us on Willard.

I would ask that if there's anyone who is doubting my take on the rebel experience to go ahead and try to play one as if you were a new player. No OOC connections and work with friends, just you versus the current state of Willard.

 

[Shimac's Stew]

Rebel RP has slowed down noticeably since the Radio Tower and we have not earned any Rebel-worthy items (Guns, Armor, Medical Supplies, Rarer Items, etc) since then.

And yes, the current state of grinding is time-consuming yet it has so little (Ahem, Crates) to provide for everyone in the rebel scene. And there's always those moments where you venture down, hoping to get better loot than those in the trash bags in exchange for risking your life - But instead, there's nothing there cause someone else already got to them first.

Increase the amount of crates at different set timers to prevent one loot goblin from grabbing all of them.

 

[Wraygun]

It was only yesterday a whole 6 or 7 man team, 2 QUICK squad members included, rushed into the outlands absolutely curbstomped a Vortigaunt shotcop

There was no misplay from the Vortigaunts, they simply shotcopped

That's exactly the problem. They shotcopped and cops reacted to that by sending cops to take care of it, instead of what could've been OTA. By the way, this isn't a reproach or a counter-argument. I geniunely think the server is stomping down on shotcops and the whole CvR thing. It's not just rebels that are treated this way, but also cops. I know you mentioned a combine bias, but I don't think that's the case. I think there is a constant crackdown on anything involving S2K and player-led conflicts.

I myself interacted with @Imperator RAD-X's Russian priest, by raiding his church and literally declaring jihad on him. People that were affiliated with the MCP snitched on them, and that's how it all started. He told me it was a fun interaction. Them snitching, that lead to CivPro marching in the slums and beating everyone up who took part in that prayer. OOCly, nothing bad came out of this, aside from an IC lecturing from an MCP who told me that I shouldn't have done that. I get that IC is IC, but the only interactions that I ever have with rebels are done with a set of gloves. That shouldn't be the case.

is completely undeniable that the rebel scene is complete ass right now, there is ZERO redeeming qualities.

Agreed.

There is nothing you could ever tell me that would justify it taking months on months to even get a pistol. Make shotcops great again.

This has to do with the fact that the server wants to phase out fire-arms and focus more on melee combat.

Anyways: takeaway from this post is, we're going to the other extreme. Willard had a problem where all that happened were shotcops and S2K combat. I don't think the current approach is much better, as we're on the other side of the extreme.

Conflict should exist within a moderate amount, one that is fun for the players and healthy at the same time. Another thing that annoys me to no end, is how much cops are being given mini-events to deal with some event slummer/rebel character/dissenter who somehow has a BOL put on him. It's not promoting any organic interactions between players, and that's exactly what my main issue is with those. It does give cops something to do, but it feels too artificial, not just for me, but some of the people that I asked. Some were happy that they got something to do, a change from the boring old routine where they stand around, so there is some merit to this. I just don't think this should be the way forward.

 

[Robert]

i dont know what you call yesterday then mfs were 6deep smgs into the outlands only a couple minutes after bsls started popping off, if they were truly only reactionary theyd stay in the city after losing sight of the vorts. but thats just one example among many

This is being reactive.

This is a reaction to an action. If you were attacked and your attacker ran away, it is not being "Proactive" to go chase them down, it is reacting to the offensive action and trying to stop your attacker getting away with it. This is not a proactive action.

Proactive by definition is to act without reason, to act without any form of prompt to do so against another. E.g. City is all quiet with nothing going on but suddenly the local CP squad rolls up to the slums and starts kicking everyones doors in to search them all, taking away contraband, arresting people or even killing them. That is a proactive action as its done without any form of justification, prompt or reason to do so, it was abrupt, random and was purely targetting rebels/slummers for the sake of targetting rebels/slummers.

Reactive is responding to any act you commit against them so they can deal with the problem accordingly. So you go commit a crime in the City and hit the CPs whether it be damaging infrastructure, causing disturbances or generally attacking/killing a unit. They have every right to chase you down until that crime timer hits 0 as they are reacting to your crime. Same if a crime was committed and the attacker is unknown, the Cps now have a reason to sweep the slums to see if the assailant can be found based on whatever info they have on hand.

I am sorry but, after testing out the Vortigaunt beam power recently against kevlar armor, or just normal armor. It takes three shots to take down a single one, which takes 35% of vortessence anyway, imagine a squad of CPs with some rebels, vortigaunts can't be of good help unless the nerf is somewhat reduced. And the moment we are in a fight with CPs kitted with Riot Gear, which does happen due to the GM events that cause the socio-stability to rise to unrest occasionally, as stated by others, is absolutely punishing and demotivating to all players, both Vortigaunts and rebels.

The vortigaunts are absolute dogshits regards to stats, nobody can take down a CP with a riot gear, either make them unusable until Rebels get actual mid-level gear, or it extremely feels like we are fighting OTA grunts. To be precise, it takes 4-5 shots to take down a CP with riot gear... Which is not optimal where they use it in squads of 5-6 which we absolutely get decimated no matter how strategic, how well our plan is.

That is a major problem regarding balancing CPs to Rebels/Vortigaunts too, and I urge it to be looked upon.

Vorts were balanced to 2 shot CPs, excluding Riot gear. I have asked and the Riot gear was used due to the Sociostability of the City being at Code Orange and Unrest procedure in effect. It was not there to combat the vorts and make CPs 3 shot, it was there simply because the Terminal was in Unrest codes which allows all units to equip riot gear to quell any unrest in the terminal. Unfortunately for the Vorts, this led to said CPs being in Riot gear leading to them taking 3 direct vort hits as each beam does 65 damage roughly, enough to end the life of your average unit, but not enough to fully kill a Riot geared CP.

It was intended that a riot CP can take at least 1 more hit from a Vort, with 2 hits taking the CP down to around 30-20HP. All riot gear gives overall is any extra 25 armor points and for i3s, that is 0 extra armor points. Command units like i1s get 75 kevlar in total with riot gear vs their standard 50. But still die in the 3 hits.

The main thing I was meant to look into a while ago was vort energy consumption for the beam and its rate of fire. Atm it fires 1 beam per 3 seconds and uses 10% energy. The planned energy consumption was going to be around 5-8% on the same 3 second delay to test it out for now. But not sure it has been implemented given the fact vorts still claim its roughly 30-35% of their energy for 3 beams.

 

[Ozzekiel]

i dont know what you call yesterday then mfs were 6deep smgs into the outlands only a couple minutes after bsls started popping off, if they were truly only reactionary theyd stay in the city after losing sight of the vorts. but thats just one example among many

We will reform this, sorry for your experience

 

[Curbalas]

Vorts were balanced to 2 shot CPs, excluding Riot gear. I have asked and the Riot gear was used due to the Sociostability of the City being at Code Orange and Unrest procedure in effect. It was not there to combat the vorts and make CPs 3 shot,

The sociostability was raised to Unrest to combat vortigaunts yesterday, I and Stanford downed two CPs in self-defense, it was raised to unrest and they immediately deployed the riot gear, so to be precise yes. It was to combat vortigaunts.

 

[Neonity]

there's also, basically nowhere to sit at with Rebel clothing and drip. Clothing for Rebs is also just, bad, since, if you wear it, you'll be arrested / killed INSTANTLY.

This is a good thing.

 

[BrennenW05]

This is a good thing.

I think he was referring less to sitting in gear (which if you do you are dumb). And more that rebel customization is basically just what hat you wear. and with cold it's just what color Benie you wear now. Given that pretty much all rebels with armor looks exactly the same, other than mentioned hat difference. Meanwhile, loyalists get 14 million suits most of which are barely used.

 

[Bounter]

I also think Smugglers should sell, bit more stuff than they do currently. There is 2 of them, but they're VERY far away. Which, IC reasons make sense but... Yeah.

 

[Bounter]

This is a good thing.

Well, it was something mentioned in some other post elsewhere... Only "Rebel" stuff is like, tipless gloves :/

 

[FieldersNL]

So, I just heard the prices of chips you need to get a simple glock or MP5 and I was stunned

 

[Gridlock]

So, I just heard the prices of chips you need to get a simple glock or MP5 and I was stunned

theres no vendor to buy those from anyway

 

[FieldersNL]

theres no vendor to buy those from anyway

they're sold from BMDs, but with how much the vendors buys your materials for only mere 2-4 chips each piece..........

 

[Gridlock]

they're sold from BMDs, but with how much the vendors buys your materials for only mere 2-4 chips each piece..........

and thats if you even can get to the npc vendor (most cant and i cant cuz my spore poisoning has persisted for several weeks now) and even if you did somehow accumulate enough chips to purchase a gun the BMDs dont sell them yet

 

[ItsLiam]

I'm formulating a reply, soon... (Got work in 10m)

However, I hope people know that we're still in the 'early stages' of the new map. People aren't meant to have everything, there's meant to be a struggle for shit.

Everything will come at its own pace, as such will the player BMDs, quests, being able to sell/buy from BMDs more openly, sewers being opened up.

 

[Wraygun]

However, I hope people know that we're still in the 'early stages' of the new map. People aren't meant to have everything, there's meant to be a struggle for shit.

I'm pretty sure the whole rebuilding phase is done. Per RAD-X's words (I spoke to him) the only struggle there is, is the upcoming storm which was hinted at before. We're not in the early phase anymore. I think it's fair game to step the game up of every faction. I don't want to sound patronizing and condescending. But if rebels don't have an incentive to do anything, there is no incentive for cops to do anything. Which in turn, affects city roleplay negatively.

 

[Curbalas]

However, I hope people know that we're still in the 'early stages' of the new map. People aren't meant to have everything, there's meant to be a struggle for shit.

Bad mentality, the server has turned into a PoliticalRP server, and it is legitimately impossible for rebels to play. You can't just minimize the issue by saying "people aren't meant to have everything." People don't have anything, we have been struggling for two months now, the rebel playerbase has left the game, and only a handful remains. If this is a good server balancing, I don't know what people were thinking of making the, easiest faction for new players, the most intriguing faction for new players impossible to play, whether it be grinding, combat, or anything rebel-related that is not espionage. Which not everybody likes.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, the current struggle the rebels have are overwhelming, concluding in both rebel burnout and CPs getting bored as hell since all they can focus on is PvE or protecting political people, which I am 100% sure not enjoyed, opinions from multiple people. The struggle we are taking is not worth our time, it is not rewarding, nor fun. Nothing we do seemingly helps us in any way other than forcing us to be a loot hoarder, indicating that the current server's focus is on us grinding lifelessly and not roleplay.

 

[Curbalas]

Which in turn, affects city roleplay negatively.

This is an understatement, the current state affects the entire server negatively.

 

[VaherNitsen]

Hello friends. I am at my PC and may now give my nuanced take on things.

New Players & RebelRP
My current outlook on this issue as a whole seems to be largely a lack of trust(I am extremely paranoid)and no 'obvious' ways to 'join' any group. I stated this previously, and I believe it has something to do with people not wanting to risk their progression thus far, or so. I cannot confirm this, but I know that for myself, I am being far more careful than I would usually be when it comes to attempting to bring players into the fold, as it were. Sometimes I do just say fuck it though because I cannot be bothered, so take this point with a grain of salt.

Resource Scarcity & Progression
The resource scarcity is in issue that plagues the entire expanse of all of RebelRP. This is, namely, due to the crates and garbage bags. Garbage bags often yield nothing of help, or something you require a toolbox to break down. Whenever you do find the materials you can use, you're not finding alcohol or chemicals(car batteries you do find sometimes), and so you go to the crates. When you go to the crates, though, they give scarcely anything of use since you likely don't have a crowbar, and that's if someone else hasn't gotten to them first. The system in theory is sound, slow escalation of resources and wealth, some small bridging gaps(the leech adhesive)to make larger jumps, but alas, other players exist, slowing it. There was a post earlier that posited the idea of client-side crate spawns(at least I think...)which I think is... a good idea, honestly. It would need some work to make sure people can't farm it out infinitely, but it seems like a pretty good solution. But I digress. We're talking about progression, and what do you need for progression? A toolset. It isn't easy finding one, as either(as was pointed out by someone earlier)you will need to make friends with the CWU, a rebel group, or craft it yourself. None of these are exactly easy for newer players, nor for anyone attempting to get into RebelRP in general.

The Loot & Gear
It was placed earlier in the thread that the Outlands area of the map is rather devoid of anything to go and find at your own expense, meaning that there's essentially zero point in going there. Aside from this, odds are you'll be battling through the gates of hell, and have to do your best Doomslayer LARP as the hordes of demons pour towards you. This is all to say, it's not exactly worth it. You're often not going to be using ranged weapons as they're extremely not worth feeding, and will be largely ineffective. Melee is your friend, and at that end, it's trading blows. I do not find going into the Sewers, Bunker, or Outlands much fun anymore. This is less of a particular reason, and moreso I just have disliked the times I've gone through the areas, as it was either repetitive beyond belief, or I was having a bad time(shout out to Badger though, excellent GM for a particular adventure of mine, even if my grubby hands were looking for loot on bodies(sorry!)). Moving away from the more 'on-server' ways of loot, I'm unfamiliar with the Expos, and their 'loot'. I've not been really engaging with that part of RebelRP since there's essentially no point due to the lack of gear comparatively to the danger, and if I went on one I would probably die since I get distracted easily.

Roleplay, Advancement, & and Opportunity
I think roleplay is very important, moreso than loot, but as it stands, it's one or the other. I don't have any solution, believed or in theory, for this. My personal goal is to become a gunsmith, so that's my way through it, but I dunno how others are dealing with it. So far as I'm aware, it's either grind or RP at the moment. Being able to settle both issues at once is fun, and when you delve into the underground with friends, it's fun, but that enjoyment fades. It's important to give other options in lieu of the grind, and make them known. I remember wanting to set up a base underground, looking at the rules, and seeing in things you may not apply for, 'ventilating spores from an area of the underground'(from memory, ad lib). Because I saw that, I gave up the idea, and then I see that apparently we are allowed! I was sad, to say the least- those who know, I suppose. I do want to stress, though, once more- I would prefer doing roleplay at the very least in conjunction with the grind. If you have something you are genuinely excited to do and enjoying fully, it makes the worse bits easier to stand.

Closing Notes
It's very likely that I've rambled without anything helpful at all, so I will now include a list of things I have enjoyed doing, and not enjoyed doing. Also, previously I would have talked on the map but that is to be resolved so I will leave my thoughts on that absent.

Likes:
-Fun GM experiences, where danger was still present, but it was tasteful and up to my own mistakes or decisions what happened.
-The grind, when my goal is something I find interesting, and want to do, or if I'm with friends(that's really pushing it though, believe me).
-Roleplaying experiences, ideas, and advancements. I really wanna do gunsmithing stuff since I genuinely find it so fucking cool IRL, so it lends that enjoyment to RP.
-This one time I found two Biolocks in one trash bag. Actually jumped at the sheer surprise and excitement. Metal was sparse, then.
-When I realised I had just enough Steel because I found a piece ages ago. Felt lucky.
-Engaging in subterfuge, espionage, and intelligence gathering.

Dislikes:
-GM experiences where danger was quantity of NPC over quality.
-The grind, 90% of the time.
-Looking through rubbish and finding nothing, out of twenty bags.
-Not having enough materials, though this is less of a gripe since it does allow for some 'do I want this, or this?' thinking which is neat, so it gets a pass.
-Toolset scarcity. Solved for me, mostly, for others, not so much.
-My subterfuge, scarcity, and intelligence gathering coming to naught, as I learn that apparently the group it was related to has since been 'removed'.
-Other stuff, but it's too minimal to mention.


Hopefully my desperate ramblings glean some useful info. If not, please execute me with a cigarette and a blindfold offering.
Bye bye!

 

[nath1234567]

I think the amount of support for this thread is a clear indication that there does need to be an adjustment to the way that Rebel RP is currently being handled. People belonging to Civil Protection and resistance have left comments regarding the lack of things that are going on in terms of interactions between the two factions and I think it is important that the server is working toward providing a healthy balance between the two.

As it currently stands, a good majority of the rebel scene feels that they aren't being provided with the tools to make an impact on the server. In no way do I want the server to return to the environment we had before where the top rebel groups were running around with AR2s that would delete Civil Protection to the point that the cops didn't even feel like engaging anymore, but we should strive for a healthy middle ground that encourages interactions and intriguing RP without one side feeling untouchable.

The costs for the MP5 and Glock-19 were recently released and are sitting at steep pricings that are essentially unobtainable until there are more efficient ways to earn chips. Let's assume you spend all the time it would take to get yourself an MP5 and a sufficient amount of ammo to defend yourself with? You would still be out of luck when it comes to getting any armor. If Medium Armor was 1,000 at a point on City 8, I cannot imagine the price we're going to slap on it unless there is a shift in direction going forward. Meanwhile, Civil Protection are able to deploy a squad of riot armor with 75hp if the city is in unrest.

 

[RedHotGinger]

In no way do I want the server to return to the environment we had before where the top rebel groups were running around with AR2s that would delete Civil Protection

This is really my only worry. We only recently escaped from this type of play which feels like it stuck to us for many months. The worst thing in my mind is that we end up right back to that, or rapidly set ourselves up for it once more, merely two months after a total wipe.

In this sense, I hope changes that are made are gradual and cautious, personally. Its much easier to control the balance before it gets massively tipped.