[Discussion] Resistance Overhaul

[Atle]

Resistance Overhaul
This is not official and is a suggestion put on the table for discussion


Structure

Resistance gameplay in its current iteration follows the post 2014 free for all setup, whereas anyone without any restriction may create their own groups. The downside of this system is it creates a strong feeling of “mobster” roleplay with infighting and a lack of overall unity / direction. It also creates a loot / hoarding loop since there's no overall objective to follow.

I’d like to propose experimenting with a pre-2014 system where resistance gameplay used a whitelist to stay in sync with server/story direction and kept a more structured approach to goals and gameplay. Think of how Civil Protection operates but for the resistance, with their own base (with similar rules to CPs to not stay there for longer than X time), leads, roles, gameplay, etc.




Current
We provide the tools to grant everyone opportunities but we do not provide the direction nor leadership with our resistance setup to organically create objectives without heavy admin intervention. I do not find this system sustainable long-term and if the involved admin/s eventually leave, the system gets hampered even further without clear replacements. In effect we operate a sort of semi-official admin event led faction leadership glued together with rebel representatives. It is quite up in the air for most times and difficult to keep track of. What I'd much rather see is a player in the leadership position who's able to carry the torch and organize the resistance.


New
Proposed new system builds on top of our mechanics, still allowing for independent groups but syncs the server with appointed rebel leads with an official resistance faction aligned with it. Whitelisted members will reduce the infighting and provide a natural doorway for players wishing to become official resistance. Any whitelisted positions excluding the main lead can be appointed ICly. Players may still create independent groups at will, the whitelist faction will not be stopping that.


Structurally equalize both sides



Both combine and resistance (structurally) can be equalized to be similar but with their own distinct flavour, I use the combine side as an example above as they already have this setup in place. The combine start off in the Nexus with ooc rules to prevent cps idling there for too long, the Resistance can have the same as well with rules to prevent the i17 secret base idle issue.

The combine side have Civil Administration and Civil Protection offering diplomatic and pro-combine enforcement roleplay. The resistance can structurally have similar with leads offering a path forward, and fighters to help keep everyone safe from the combine.

Similar setups to CWU, CMU but simplified and more organic, the Resistance can have engineers and medics to offer specialized roles and gameplay. These roles can be intermixed and wouldn’t need to be strict or streamlined as CWU/CMU. Only the lead engineer/medic would strictly need the whitelist.

Then each sides equivalent of currency groups, for the Resistance it is the Black Market Dealers with its own lead as it is now but overall under the umbrella of the main Resistance to encourage communication and a tighter rebel community.

Finally you have the civilians and independent groups and vorts who will intermingle and find their paths set between the two sides. Just like how loyalist groups have intermingling “politics” between the various pro-combine factions, independent groups will communicate, trade and work their ways with the official resistance.


The goal
It is my hope this will reduce the dramatic infighting and trial by who shoots you first entryways we have now. By granting the resistance more structure I also hope this will add another element of purpose and reduce the looting / monster feel. The goal is to also push players to RP to join the official resistance and encourage more quality. Not to mention it'll be far more easy for Creative Team to organize events specifically for the resistance.


Rebel base
Much like how CPs operate with their Nexus, the Rebels can have a similar setup with base rules preventing its members to idle there for longer than X amount of time.


Who gets to become lead?
If this reform were to go through whoever gets to be the Resistance faction lead role will have a steep task to complete, it is vital to find a figure who's open minded, doesn't mind changes, thinks server-wide balance with combine/rebels and someone who wont have a meltdown if they lose their leadership position. This could be done via a open application setup, handpick interviews, etc to be determined.



If there's enough support to give it a go, we could give it an experimental trial run in the near future, possibly for the next map switch event.

 

[Ruairidh]

Is this coming with an outland server or nah? this would fit an outland server

Also can rebels still have their little groups? just work in tandem with the big group?

 

[Neonity]

Is this coming with an outland server or nah? this would fit an outland server

Also can rebels still have their little groups? just work in tandem with the big group?

No outlands server yet.

Judging from the post, rebels can still make and manage their groups as usual, but there will be an "official" organized resistance to work along with.

 

[Deleted member 2717]

I like the idea of proper management of rebel groups a lot. An official, whitelisted "Resistance" would do wonders to help with giving direction to the more independent groups. +support for this idea all the way.

 

[ShadoWiz4rd]

Thank god this is finally being talked about.

I started discussing a sort of council being formed like this that would set rules of engagement, Objectives and cover diplomacy after we returned home, Really hope this change is added. 1 Unified Resistance. And the others are gangs/independent cells

 

[BrennenW05]

As a rebel main, this sounds great, however, that will be the case as long as there isn't gatekeeping within the official rebel organization.
I also have a suggestion for the structure of the rebels, allow the bigger/more influential independent rebels groups to have a say in what the local rebels do
Basically, if independent groups get enough influence they can choose to partner or integrate into the main rebel structure

Also will the main group Lambda, ESIC, or some new global group?

 

[Appetite Ruining Kebab]

the only thing i want to add is to make it so rebel whitelisted people dont have orange names like they do now; a good chunk of 'real resisting' involves blending in for operations on the surface and that simply cant function if these people can be so easily marked out

imo the lack of 'direction' is a problem with the players themselves, its not too hard to make up goals for your group beyond getting scripts people just need to think outside the box for a few minutes, but since most rebels have consistently shown they cant do this a big ol' handholding resistance whitelist might be a welcome change

 

[Imperator RAD-X]

Is this coming with an outland server or nah? this would fit an outland server

On my to-do list.

 

[Deleted member 2717]

On my to-do list.

This is fine, but the Cat Update must come first

 

[Wraygun]

On my to-do list.

 

[Kieran C.]

Glad to see that a centralized Resistance group is going to be taking the reins! I believe that player-generated roleplay is well-off for the short-term, but this will allow those with a lack of time to delve into starting their own group partake in the server's resistance atmosphere.

 

[alessiodoomboy]

It's a good idea to introduce a shake-up, but I think there's a few flaws to this design

- The new resistance group would certainly have to have plot armour to function properly. There's a reason rebel enforcer-types don't go around the slums doing the equivalent job to Civil Protection, and the main reasons for that is because it's a fool's game that'll get you killed, and has no real benefit for your group. Some group is stirring trouble in the slums/underground? Best course of action is to keep your head down rather than engage with them personally. A new group that manages the underground would essentially just be making bad decisions, which means that to continue functioning they'd need outer support.

- Making the rebel side and Combine side symmetrical doesn't make sense since they're fundamentally different. The resistance does not need to manage and maintain a city, so whilst balancing symmetrically may be easier, jobs such as resistance engineers and medics as opposed to the CWU and the CMU doesn't make too much sense. For example, the CWU manages repairs, creates ration packets, etc as well as being an opportunity to gain SC for citizens. What would a rebel engineer do? The equivalent in the slums? If not, it seems like they'd just do more important work for organised rebel groups? Rebels groups should have members of their own to do those jobs for them. Same thing goes the resistance medics, since going to the CMU is legal and (probably) better funded, they would only service those on BoL or have been in firefights, and if someone is in that position, they should have contacts of their own to do those jobs.

- A rebel group structured OOCly would be difficult to make feel like a natural part of the world. Right now, rebel groups feel like a pretty natural part of the world - even when rebels do things that are quite obviously cringe, they feel like a natural response to the condition of the world they occupy because they're managed ICly, making them literally natural responses to the condition of the server. A structured rebel group with OOCly influence would need to be managed for this quality due to the outer-world influence, and runs the high risk of feeling artificial. It's similar to when an admin/event rebel leads an uprising. Any achievements this group could achieve would feel cheaper due to the OOC influence, and those outside the group may feel as if it's not fair to them if they don't want to associate with the larger resistance (because it's not).

That being said, there are a few benefits that should be maintained when developing this idea into something better.

- Easier to make contacts reduces the infamous grind. It is generally agreed that the grind is pretty bad. Going around the sewers and searching trash until you collapse of exhaustion is hardly a fun gameplay loop. Easier access to player BMDs through a larger resistance would aid the grind greatly and introduce more RP to gaining scripts. Furthermore, the group could exchange chips for jobs, so you could prosper economically without spending the best years of your life pressing CTRL+E.

- More unity between rebel groups. More unified rebel groups means more ambitious projects and generally leads to better RP. Increasing the unity between the groups is a good way to encourage rebels to actually do things.

- Rebel groups will have goals. Rebel groups will have a greater goal to try and attain, as opposed to now, which can feel quite aimless.

A counterproposal that aims to preserve the benefits without the cons.

Maintain the idea of an outer-resistance group that requires a whitelist - but change how this group operates.
No Main "rebel base". This group would not have a base within the city. Instead, it would operate similar to the Broker. Agents from outside the city would come in to conduct business.
These rebels would form alliances with existing rebel groups within the city. These rebels would not be allowed to operate independently. They'd need at least 50% of all rebels within their operations to be from outer-cells, and getting this support is the IC responsibility of those with the whitelist. They will have OOC support in the form of asking the part of the group that operates outside the city. For example, these rebels could request chips from their organisation to help pay for help from an existing rebel group within the city. All rebel groups in an alliance with the larger resistance could also share a discord channel with an IC notice board so they can co-ordinate with eachother easier.
Host open opportunities for low-level rebels to get a foot ahead. They would hand out simple tasks for low level rebels to do in exchange for pay. These opportunities would be low-key and probably repetitive so they can be hosted more often, such as handing out some paper with propaganda on it and pins for someone to post up around the city in exchange for chips. They'd also open BMD markets that rebels in both the early and late game can benefit from.
Be willing to aid resistance groups in their efforts. If a rebel group wants to do an expo but needs some manpower or resources? The main resistance group could send in a few people or send in a few guns if they agree with the cause of the expo (eg, the expo's goals aren't entirely selfish and align with the ideals of the main group), or in exchange for some of the rewards.

These changes would shift the focus of rebel RP from the larger resistance group back to the independent cells ICly created in RP. Furthermore, it would integrate into the world more naturally.

 

[Donavin Jones]

It's a good idea to introduce a shake-up, but I think there's a few flaws to this design

- The new resistance group would certainly have to have plot armour to function properly. There's a reason rebel enforcer-types don't go around the slums doing the equivalent job to Civil Protection, and the main reasons for that is because it's a fool's game that'll get you killed, and has no real benefit for your group. Some group is stirring trouble in the slums/underground? Best course of action is to keep your head down rather than engage with them personally. A new group that manages the underground would essentially just be making bad decisions, which means that to continue functioning they'd need outer support.

- Making the rebel side and Combine side symmetrical doesn't make sense since they're fundamentally different. The resistance does not need to manage and maintain a city, so whilst balancing symmetrically may be easier, jobs such as resistance engineers and medics as opposed to the CWU and the CMU doesn't make too much sense. For example, the CWU manages repairs, creates ration packets, etc as well as being an opportunity to gain SC for citizens. What would a rebel engineer do? The equivalent in the slums? If not, it seems like they'd just do more important work for organised rebel groups? Rebels groups should have members of their own to do those jobs for them. Same thing goes the resistance medics, since going to the CMU is legal and (probably) better funded, they would only service those on BoL or have been in firefights, and if someone is in that position, they should have contacts of their own to do those jobs.

- A rebel group structured OOCly would be difficult to make feel like a natural part of the world. Right now, rebel groups feel like a pretty natural part of the world - even when rebels do things that are quite obviously cringe, they feel like a natural response to the condition of the world they occupy because they're managed ICly, making them literally natural responses to the condition of the server. A structured rebel group with OOCly influence would need to be managed for this quality due to the outer-world influence, and runs the high risk of feeling artificial. It's similar to when an admin/event rebel leads an uprising. Any achievements this group could achieve would feel cheaper due to the OOC influence, and those outside the group may feel as if it's not fair to them if they don't want to associate with the larger resistance (because it's not).

That being said, there are a few benefits that should be maintained when developing this idea into something better.

- Easier to make contacts reduces the infamous grind. It is generally agreed that the grind is pretty bad. Going around the sewers and searching trash until you collapse of exhaustion is hardly a fun gameplay loop. Easier access to player BMDs through a larger resistance would aid the grind greatly and introduce more RP to gaining scripts. Furthermore, the group could exchange chips for jobs, so you could prosper economically without spending the best years of your life pressing CTRL+E.

- More unity between rebel groups. More unified rebel groups means more ambitious projects and generally leads to better RP. Increasing the unity between the groups is a good way to encourage rebels to actually do things.

- Rebel groups will have goals. Rebel groups will have a greater goal to try and attain, as opposed to now, which can feel quite aimless.

A counterproposal that aims to preserve the benefits without the cons.

Maintain the idea of an outer-resistance group that requires a whitelist - but change how this group operates.
No Main "rebel base". This group would not have a base within the city. Instead, it would operate similar to the Broker. Agents from outside the city would come in to conduct business.
These rebels would form alliances with existing rebel groups within the city. These rebels would not be allowed to operate independently. They'd need at least 50% of all rebels within their operations to be from outer-cells, and getting this support is the IC responsibility of those with the whitelist. They will have OOC support in the form of asking the part of the group that operates outside the city. For example, these rebels could request chips from their organisation to help pay for help from an existing rebel group within the city. All rebel groups in an alliance with the larger resistance could also share a discord channel with an IC notice board so they can co-ordinate with eachother easier.
Host open opportunities for low-level rebels to get a foot ahead. They would hand out simple tasks for low level rebels to do in exchange for pay. These opportunities would be low-key and probably repetitive so they can be hosted more often, such as handing out some paper with propaganda on it and pins for someone to post up around the city in exchange for chips. They'd also open BMD markets that rebels in both the early and late game can benefit from.
Be willing to aid resistance groups in their efforts. If a rebel group wants to do an expo but needs some manpower or resources? The main resistance group could send in a few people or send in a few guns if they agree with the cause of the expo (eg, the expo's goals aren't entirely selfish and align with the ideals of the main group), or in exchange for some of the rewards.

These changes would shift the focus of rebel RP from the larger resistance group back to the independent cells ICly created in RP. Furthermore, it would integrate into the world more naturally.

genius

 

[Ansty]

Not a unified plot armour rebel group just a unified cell command that the independent player groups can join, but the actual commanders of that command will have to be active not Hans who shoved up like once during the event to say "Uhh you should do x" and then remain innactive only to get on after forever to deal with Boris and interigating a captured cp

 

[Rabid]

The main problem with this is that it will need constant support and direction on a level that you don't need to do for the Combine which is exceptionally difficult to pull off simply because by nature The Resistance's entire efforts are geared towards 'resisting' and that'll be the focus - which means you'll need to give regular and routine goals and tasks that are possible and achievable (otherwise why bother with joining?).

Therein lies the biggest concern - for that to be the case you'll need a level of OOC cooperation between the Combine and Rebel leadership which allows these goals to be accomplished without seeming unfair, because if you give people a job and they all get PK'd doing it then the leadership will face the backlash OOC, or you'll end up with cops and the Combine feeling like scripted punching bags to give rebels the win.

Neither of these are ideal and are the biggest possible killers for this concept. For this rebel cell to have teeth, they'll need assurances they can complete their goals and not just feed actual player characters into the meatgrinder trying.

Secondly like @alessiodoomboy says you run into the problem of people who want to do their own thing and make their own groups being at a net disadvantage for not joining because they won't be the focus anymore. Currently all groups more-or-less have an equal chance of being involved and ICly making a dent; this would be a hinderance to that because they'll forever be in the shadow of the larger, OOCly backed group.

I've ran one of these "officiated" groups over at TnB to help kick RebelRp into gear for an Uprising and it was a massive chore that burned everyone involved out. People did not like feeling overshadowed and like they couldn't make a dent.

Finally, related to the above, OOC protection will be a must so a CP raid doesn't wipe out the bulk of the forces and/or leadership - which then effectively makes this OOC Resistance an entity which cannot be damaged or slowed. That makes sense for The Combine, but not The Resistance. Having JOE BLOG the BIG REBEL MAN get instantly replaced if they're ever PK'd seems like it'll caused issues.

 

[CristoNath]

Could be interesting to implement with an outland server

 

[Donavin Jones]

Could be interesting to implement with an outland server

Then thats all people would play.

 

[Ruairidh]

On my to-do list.

can you offer an ETA for an outlands server?

 

[Imperator RAD-X]

can you offer an ETA for an outlands server?

Well, right now we need to stabilise rebel RP and ensure the community main server is stable to properly facilitate it. There is no direct plan that exists at the moment, but CT has it on its goals to scheme ahead. Though priorities first, no proper ETA announced.

 

[Ruairidh]

Well, right now we need to stabilise rebel RP and ensure the community main server is stable to properly facilitate it. There is no direct plan that exists at the moment, but CT has it on its goals to scheme ahead. Though priorities first, no proper ETA announced.

Aight, if this rebel shit is a positive is it possible that the outlands server will be moved up a bit