Excessive Banning & Ban Timeframes

[Cavity]

I believe that Willard's staff team is dedicated to enforcing the server's rules and are very proactive in their jobs. However, I think that they are very excessive with their ban timeframes, and they excessively ban players in general. Please note that I am not making this out of frustration with my own ban; I am simply pointing out what I believe is wrong.


I am deciding to speak out on an issue that I have noticed here in Willard Networks that I believe has gone on for quite some time, and it needs to be addressed amongst the staff team and the way they handle punishments to players. On several occasions, I believe Willard staff has unnecessarily banned players & given out excessive ban timeframes for those that were justified. In the past few months, I have been actively playing on Willard Networks; I have witnessed and been a part of several ban waves that have hit the server, often with the staff team banning multiple players at once for extended periods.

Please note these are the only screenshots I have collected in my time on Willard Networks and do not represent an accurate scale of how many players have been banned in the timeframe I have been on the server. It is way more than this.


Example (Not all logs provided; I believe this ban wave had 12 players give or take)


A ban wave of about 12 or more players hit Willard which pretty much wiped out the entire rebel underground. All players originally received bans of 90 days OR LONGER for a "chip loop" which none of them had any idea was against the rules. It wasn't even implemented into the server rules until after the ban wave, and even so, a lot of players were confused about WHY they were banned in the first place. The problem came from a lack of proper oversight from Willard Staff and Developers for not noticing it OR informing players NOT to sell medical items to the NPC vendor for a profit (which is the entire point of collecting or crafting those items and selling them to the vendor?)

They eventually came to the conclusion that their decision was either wrong, impulsive, excessive, or a combination of the three and went through unbanning or reducing a majority of the players they banned in this wave.

Example:

5 players including myself were banned for a month for metagaming. A ban MAY be warranted as punishment but for a month? That is excessive for metagaming. Why so harsh? Could you, not PM the players and inform them of their wrongdoing? Could you not give a shorter ban timeframe of maybe 2 weeks? Why are players with no ban or bad server records getting month-long bans for a minor offense? There is no reason to ban players for that long over a rather minor offense in which no other players were hurt, PK'ed, or otherwise.

They have already reduced one of these bans because the player was new. This shouldn't have happened from the get-go of this wave anyway.

Example:

ItsLiam was recently banned for 3 months for grabbing items from a vending machine without roleplaying it when no other players were around. How is that NOT excessive? I have seen this done multiple times by both players and staff members roleplaying with people around.

(This is according to Liam and I do not know the full details of the situation)


The point I am trying to make is that the Willard Networks staff team outright bans people for offenses, for EXTENSIVE periods of time for even the smallest thing. Their actions oftentimes seem VERY IMPULSIVE when they do conduct these bans, and they do not think of the bigger picture when banning multiple people for long amounts of time, including KEY players for certain factions.

Since I joined in the past few months it seems that with every ban wave, the underground scene becomes more dead. Players get banned for months and are no longer around and find a new community or game to play. Who wants to come back and play after something that unfair? It's not like these guys are exploiting, cheating, or any other forms of malicious behavior to warrant these long bans. Since I've joined I would say that over 90% of the underground rebel mains have either been banned or PK'ed, leaving the entire rebel scene dead. This in turn makes everything boring because now CP has no rebels to fight, meaning they don't log on. Now there are never enough CPs to commit crimes. Do you see the domino effect here?

Another thing I want to add is that staff goes in and unbans or reduces a lot of these bans AFTER THE FACT. This goes to show that they impulsively ban before having all the facts of the situation or realize they made a mistake later on which they never should've done.

In my opinion, this is a serious problem that needs to be addressed, and I'd like to hear feedback about it.

 

[Cavity]

Hello all.

Understandably, there's been quite some concern about bans in the community considering how a lot of them appear to have happened recently. While the numbers presented are heavily skewed and they're not actually as bad as people make them out to be, they are considered large to some. It's not often that a ban wave consisting of 6 bans hits the server. And rightfully so, this worries people. Some people get the idea that they may receive a lengthy ban out of nowhere, even though they've never done anything wrong. This is deeply concerning not only to me, but the entire team, which is why we're going to put an end to that worry.

But before we address the steps it takes to address, let's get the facts on paper first:

---

The Chip Looping Controversy:


During the first chip-looping ban wave as presented first in this thread, six people were banned. These were blanket bans, based on metrics determined by a database query that simply checked if someone had sold x amount of x in a certain timeframe and earned themselves that much money in the process. In hindsight, this approach was highly flawed. We acknowledge that mistake. We aren't perfect.

Looking closely into the details of those involved after appeal threads were created, we unbanned all but two. The others were reduced to a warning instead because their involvement was not as intricate as we initially believed. The rules were then promptly updated by me and the smuggler system was adjusted in the code to hopefully prevent misconceptions like this from happening again.

---

The Metagaming Incident:


3 players were banned. As was mentioned in the other open thread, metagaming is easily considered one of the worst offenses one can commit. And it's also the one most players will typically only get punished once for. Once you get your ban, you know exactly what to do to avoid getting caught in the future. The reason metagaming bans are so severe is to dissuade people from ever trying to do it again. It's undoubtedly one of the shittiest moves one can pull, and tantamount to outright cheating because you're gaining an unfair advantage. It's considered zero tolerance and the rules make this pretty clear, in my own opinion. Feel free to discuss that on the other thread here if you must: https://willard.network/forums/threads/changing-metagame-rules.10979/

---

Liams 3 Month Ban:


Liam was banned for a long time because he has accumulated a plethora of warnings and bans already. In fact, he's not far off from being the most warned and banned person period. For context, he has 5 bans and 4 warnings. The amount of bans and warns typically determine the duration of your next infraction, even if it's a minor one, relatively speaking. This has not always been extremely consistent though and we're looking to change that to avoid unclear situations like this one. I'll agree with you on this one, 3 months may have been too harsh and hence it was quickly rectified into a more appropriate two weeks. Considering there was no real clear guideline on how long a ban should have been in this situation though, I can not put anyone at fault. The reasoning he gave himself for the ban is quite disingenuous though, considering part of the reason he was banned was for minge-grabbing items from a vending machine, with people nearby, while realistically being unable to do so, as he was standing on the other side of the railing:

Spoiler: Vending Machine

View attachment 26928

That is the full context of that particular ban. It's not as black and white as was made out to be.

---

Ban Amounts:

Over the last 60 days, 68 bans were administered. This includes the same players being banned several times. The majority of these bans were for NITRP (No Intent to Roleplay) aka the minges you all know and love.
These numbers aren't much. No, not really. GMod servers, including HL2RP, will find several minges join on the same day. Over the course of a single month, we average around 500 unique visits. That includes you. This happens every day. They'll almost always be banned and told to read the rules. They never do, because they were never here to actually roleplay anyway. All things considered, not as dramatic as initially believed.

---

Ban Management:

We've very recently established a Ban Management team. Currently, this consists of @Fedora and @Kappatalist. This team was formed to help curb the issues presented in this thread. Because there is a problem, I agree. Our current ban system is years old, and dare I say, out of touch with the community. We'll fix it.

This team will work with me and @Memesky to establish a new system for bans and warnings and the methodology to approach various situations across the board. The goal we have in mind with this new system is to promote fairness across the board and eliminate as many double standards as possible. This is a work-in-progress though and we ask you to be patient as we work out the finer details. We'll be transparent with you throughout this process and you as players will know exactly what changed and how it affects you while playing.

We'll simultaneously be working on a new and improved, modernized moderation guide for the staff team, so we're all on the same page. This guide will cover the essentials and help assure consistency across staff, no matter which admin ends up claiming your ticket or handling your dispute.

---

Closing Notes:

It's important to remember we're in a period of attrition and polarization. A lot of players (and staff) end up forming some form of negative judgement towards players who don't play their side or just those with differing opinions on how things should run. Don't let things get overly personal and know we're all here to work on forming a better server for everyone. We're all here to have a good time, and I hope y'all can treat each other with respect. Have a good night.

An update on the improved and restructured ban criteria will follow over the course of the coming week.

This response was very well spoken and presented, and this helps put my mind at ease. I look forward to see what you guys do next!

 

[Rebel RP Philosopher]

Hello all.

Understandably, there's been quite some concern about bans in the community considering how a lot of them appear to have happened recently. While the numbers presented are heavily skewed and they're not actually as bad as people make them out to be, they are considered large to some. It's not often that a ban wave consisting of 6 bans hits the server. And rightfully so, this worries people. Some people get the idea that they may receive a lengthy ban out of nowhere, even though they've never done anything wrong. This is deeply concerning not only to me, but the entire team, which is why we're going to put an end to that worry.

But before we address the steps it takes to address, let's get the facts on paper first:

---

The Chip Looping Controversy:


During the first chip-looping ban wave as presented first in this thread, six people were banned. These were blanket bans, based on metrics determined by a database query that simply checked if someone had sold x amount of x in a certain timeframe and earned themselves that much money in the process. In hindsight, this approach was highly flawed. We acknowledge that mistake. We aren't perfect.

Looking closely into the details of those involved after appeal threads were created, we unbanned all but two. The others were reduced to a warning instead because their involvement was not as intricate as we initially believed. The rules were then promptly updated by me and the smuggler system was adjusted in the code to hopefully prevent misconceptions like this from happening again.

---

The Metagaming Incident:


3 players were banned. As was mentioned in the other open thread, metagaming is easily considered one of the worst offenses one can commit. And it's also the one most players will typically only get punished once for. Once you get your ban, you know exactly what to do to avoid getting caught in the future. The reason metagaming bans are so severe is to dissuade people from ever trying to do it again. It's undoubtedly one of the shittiest moves one can pull, and tantamount to outright cheating because you're gaining an unfair advantage. It's considered zero tolerance and the rules make this pretty clear, in my own opinion. Feel free to discuss that on the other thread here if you must: https://willard.network/forums/threads/changing-metagame-rules.10979/

---

Liams 3 Month Ban:


Liam was banned for a long time because he has accumulated a plethora of warnings and bans already. In fact, he's not far off from being the most warned and banned person period. For context, he has 5 bans and 4 warnings. The amount of bans and warns typically determine the duration of your next infraction, even if it's a minor one, relatively speaking. This has not always been extremely consistent though and we're looking to change that to avoid unclear situations like this one. I'll agree with you on this one, 3 months may have been too harsh and hence it was quickly rectified into a more appropriate two weeks. Considering there was no real clear guideline on how long a ban should have been in this situation though, I can not put anyone at fault. The reasoning he gave himself for the ban is quite disingenuous though, considering part of the reason he was banned was for minge-grabbing items from a vending machine, with people nearby, while realistically being unable to do so, as he was standing on the other side of the railing:

Spoiler: Vending Machine

View attachment 26928

That is the full context of that particular ban. It's not as black and white as was made out to be.

---

Ban Amounts:

Over the last 60 days, 68 bans were administered. This includes the same players being banned several times. The majority of these bans were for NITRP (No Intent to Roleplay) aka the minges you all know and love.
These numbers aren't much. No, not really. GMod servers, including HL2RP, will find several minges join on the same day. Over the course of a single month, we average around 500 unique visits. That includes you. This happens every day. They'll almost always be banned and told to read the rules. They never do, because they were never here to actually roleplay anyway. All things considered, not as dramatic as initially believed.

---

Ban Management:

We've very recently established a Ban Management team. Currently, this consists of @Fedora and @Kappatalist. This team was formed to help curb the issues presented in this thread. Because there is a problem, I agree. Our current ban system is years old, and dare I say, out of touch with the community. We'll fix it.

This team will work with me and @Memesky to establish a new system for bans and warnings and the methodology to approach various situations across the board. The goal we have in mind with this new system is to promote fairness across the board and eliminate as many double standards as possible. This is a work-in-progress though and we ask you to be patient as we work out the finer details. We'll be transparent with you throughout this process and you as players will know exactly what changed and how it affects you while playing.

We'll simultaneously be working on a new and improved, modernized moderation guide for the staff team, so we're all on the same page. This guide will cover the essentials and help assure consistency across staff, no matter which admin ends up claiming your ticket or handling your dispute.

---

Closing Notes:

It's important to remember we're in a period of attrition and polarization. A lot of players (and staff) end up forming some form of negative judgement towards players who don't play their side or just those with differing opinions on how things should run. Don't let things get overly personal and know we're all here to work on forming a better server for everyone. We're all here to have a good time, and I hope y'all can treat each other with respect. Have a good night.

An update on the improved and restructured ban criteria will follow over the course of the coming week.

Man's got thee' statistics

 

[TRL]

NECROPOST INCOMING!!

Hi, it's currently been 171 days since this thread was last active. It was stated that a new system would be coming for restructuring ban criterea and a new staff guide. How has this been going, considering the shut-down of the server shortly after this post was made, only to be brought back up in early January?

 

[Astro]

NECROPOST INCOMING!!

Hi, it's currently been 171 days since this thread was last active. It was stated that a new system would be coming for restructuring ban criterea and a new staff guide. How has this been going, considering the shut-down of the server shortly after this post was made, only to be brought back up in early January?

@Neonity

 

[Neonity]

Hi, it's currently been 171 days since this thread was last active. It was stated that a new system would be coming for restructuring ban criterea and a new staff guide. How has this been going, considering the shut-down of the server shortly after this post was made, only to be brought back up in early January?

Hello.

A completely new staff guide has been created as of a few months ago. This is exclusively visible to staff, but it does place a rather large emphasis on educating rather than punishing. I'll share a small part of what it contains so you get where I'm coming from here:

You are here to help and serve our players; you are not some sort of feudal baron, and the players aren't your plaything. Treat our players with respect, dignity and compassion. Have patience, and do not assume the worst of them. Do not attribute malice to a simple mistake. Having to ban a player is not a good outcome for the server; a good outcome is to have a frank and respectful conversation with them and to educate rather than punish.

Now, this is just one small part of it, but the rest of the guide follows a similar theme to the above. With staff in 2024, I am placing a heavier emphasis on professionalism and the ability to educate.

On bans themselves, it was eventually settled that ban lengths are (in most cases) directly related to someone's prior warnings/ban record, with players being warned initially, then banned if they proceeded, and so forth. Exceptions are made to this because some rule violations can be extreme and a simple warning wouldn't do it justice. For instance, a major breach of metagame in which an entire 15-person group loses all of their progress because of someone maliciously going out of their way to fuck them over. That sort of stuff warrants a major punishment, regardless of the player's prior history.

The latter is also why we can not easily determine how long a ban should be for each kind of rule break. This game has a lot of variables and moving parts, and some cases are just that much more severe than others, even if the same rule was broken on a technical level. It's something that would lead to bad actors trying to "min-max" the rules in a sense. Why wouldn't you meta if you can gain the equivalent of several month's worth of progress in negligible time, but you'd only have to suffer a 2-week ban as a consequence? It's a rough example but that's where we're coming from here. They should still be less common in general though.

Bans themselves are now also handled much differently. For major rule breaks, a thread is created on Discord first where all members of staff can see it and chip in. The Ban Managers then take a look at the evidence and points provided before deciding on a course of action. This means these "impulsive bans" should be happening a lot less often, though there will always be room for error. I won't say they'll never happen, because I don't think that's the case.

Lastly, permanent bans should be nowhere near as common as they were, with them being moved to worst-case scenarios only (cheaters, exploiters, minges who join just to spam the n-word, etc.). If you do get a permanent ban, you can appeal it once. If there is no reason to think you're innocent, you're gone for good. They'll truly be permanent. For everyone else though, they've been replaced with longer bans instead, 3-6 months for example.

I'll be closing this thread, and considering it addressed.
If you have any questions, feel free to reach out to me privately on Discord or as a forum conversation.