- Joined
- Sep 25, 2020
- Messages
- 847
- Thread Author
- #1
The district One event has been out for about two weeks now. While this is not really long enough to gather detailed and intensive information regarding everything, I feel that it is beneficial to have thoughts out in the open as early as possible to enable changes to be considered. This way Development work does not stall the server nearly as hard, such as during the summer break.
So yes, this is presumptuous in some respect, but it's for the purpose of getting ahead of the curve in such a way this feedback is maybe useful and actionable.
This also covers the development work exclusively. I will not be addressing other issues in this unless its happenstance.
CRAFTING
As someone who was never particularly familiar with V2 crafting, and only casually interacted with it during select periods
It is really bad.
While I am about 90% sure I heard crafting is getting a rework, or reduction back to V2 standards (Which is crazy to say) I still feel its worth noting exactly what I find works with the system, and what doesn't. More to the point, why what doesn't work - doesn't work.
The goodI think batteries actually could have a permanent place in Willard. The ones that are used in flashlights and other select electronic devices that is. The only thing is that they should have a generous charge time, considering that players will often be in dark areas while RP'ing, in which case you do not want to make them feel obligated to 'micro' their flashlight by turning it off and on anytime they are typing.
A battery change should be an uncommon occurrence that mostly exists to provide a small material loop, and more importantly, credit sink for shops in the city. I think this is a fair trade-off.
The ability to repair tools with separate items is actually pretty neat. Adds extra value and life to them, while creating a bit of a loop for those additional repair items.
Some of the re-branded models look better, such as plastic. The greater variety of trash also just helps things look a bit 'busier' on the table. Small, but nice.
This is not even including the entire recipe or elements such as tools, skills or table requirements
Each of which adds an even additional cost towards the creation of what is, despite its high value, not *that* big of an item in terms of gameplay. Now, this is going to be changed, but it is going to have to be a sizeable overhaul. Because, yes, this system does accomplish its goal of making crafting slower. I think it was designed explicitly to counter the 'script-obsessed' side of the community.
Problem is, this comes at the cost of
utterly barring entry to any normal or RP driven player. The amount of running around, menu-hopping and optimization required to engage in even a lite version of the system is mind boggling. I do not know if a full reversion to v2 would be the way to go, but something big must change.
I can understand wanting to slow things down, and I think that needs to happen. I just know, as someone who has not engaged with crafting prior, this system makes me want to not even approach it.
And then there are the guns
This is 100% getting changed so I am not going to harp on this too long. But obviously this is a crazy amount of crafting options regarding guns alone. This is not even including the more extreme element of varied ammunition, with each weapon having its own specific calibers and, seemingly, special types of ammo.
This is obviously nuts. No part of this should remain. Ammo should be packed back into categories ASAP. V2 could not even balance that right after five years. I can not imagine what this system would look like if left alone.
As far as weapons go - one of two things need to happen.
1. Most of the weapons need to be removed, leaving only a few per-category except the LMG which needs to be removed entirely. Snipers should also be removed where-ever they are found. Balance as few weapons as you reasonably can because V2 taught us how this goes.
2. The mass variety can be kept - with the caveat that every weapon within a given category operates under the same stats and crafting requirements. Essentially turning the weapon variety into nothing more than an expression of your characters flavor. The only alterations existing between category, or to account for magazine sizes and recoil to bring them all in line.
Being real, the former option is the safer one because some of us remember the SCAR. But if the second can be managed - that is fine too.
The Skill Tree
The Trait System
This system has potential, but I think it was implemented badly. The most pressing and obvious issue...
DERP
(Disco Elysium Roleplay)
Awesome game. However, the trait system is ripped so aggressively from the property that some 'skills' have been transferred with zero regard as to what they actually mean outside DE's own world. The most pressing being Shivers, as it comes with heavy suggestion of premonition. Which opens a lot of questions for a character in a HL2RP environment.
As for the ones that have a place, they are still blatantly ripped from DE without any creative license which makes the entire system just feel distracting, in my opinion. Its as if there is this strange piece of DERP implanted amidst an otherwise HL2RP environment. Everything from the names, formatting and presentation is twisted right out of that game. Which then causes the GM's who use it to unconsciously attempt to pull the traits dialogue from that game as well.
Luckily, this is a pretty quick fix.
1. Decouple the concept from Elysium. Create straight-forward names and reasonable traits that one could actually be expected to use in line with Willards own attributes (Strength, Intelligence, Agility, Perception). Redo the UI a bit to just give it some refreshed grounding in the setting.
Ensure there is an ability to gain or remove traits as characters evolve.
Remove the 'mystery traits' as it's just a bit obtuse to be chasing some obscure thought cabinet when you should just be playing your character as they are.
Pretty much all you have to do as I see it.
I have not interacted with the medical system at all so I cannot comment on it. Maybe others can plant their thoughts in the comments.
Not saying all of this is totally correct, this is kinda early after all. But I believe its worth getting thoughts out early and a dialouge started on certain topics since this is technically more of an opening event.
So yes, this is presumptuous in some respect, but it's for the purpose of getting ahead of the curve in such a way this feedback is maybe useful and actionable.
This also covers the development work exclusively. I will not be addressing other issues in this unless its happenstance.
CRAFTING As someone who was never particularly familiar with V2 crafting, and only casually interacted with it during select periods
It is really bad.
While I am about 90% sure I heard crafting is getting a rework, or reduction back to V2 standards (Which is crazy to say) I still feel its worth noting exactly what I find works with the system, and what doesn't. More to the point, why what doesn't work - doesn't work.
The good
A battery change should be an uncommon occurrence that mostly exists to provide a small material loop, and more importantly, credit sink for shops in the city. I think this is a fair trade-off.
The ability to repair tools with separate items is actually pretty neat. Adds extra value and life to them, while creating a bit of a loop for those additional repair items.
Some of the re-branded models look better, such as plastic. The greater variety of trash also just helps things look a bit 'busier' on the table. Small, but nice.
The bad
The system has been rendered FAR too complicated. It seems to me there were two main ideas going into the new crafting system
1. The primary effort seemed to be creating more breakpoints and slowdowns to prevent people from quickly and easily gaining the ability, if not the means, to create heavier and powerful gear.
to take a basic example of just how crazy this gets - A Gas Mask.
An advanced item to be sure, but not by any means top-tier gear. It's around the middle spectrum in terms of what you need.The system has been rendered FAR too complicated. It seems to me there were two main ideas going into the new crafting system
1. The primary effort seemed to be creating more breakpoints and slowdowns to prevent people from quickly and easily gaining the ability, if not the means, to create heavier and powerful gear.
to take a basic example of just how crazy this gets - A Gas Mask.
This is not even including the entire recipe or elements such as tools, skills or table requirements
Each of which adds an even additional cost towards the creation of what is, despite its high value, not *that* big of an item in terms of gameplay. Now, this is going to be changed, but it is going to have to be a sizeable overhaul. Because, yes, this system does accomplish its goal of making crafting slower. I think it was designed explicitly to counter the 'script-obsessed' side of the community.
Problem is, this comes at the cost of
utterly barring entry to any normal or RP driven player. The amount of running around, menu-hopping and optimization required to engage in even a lite version of the system is mind boggling. I do not know if a full reversion to v2 would be the way to go, but something big must change.I can understand wanting to slow things down, and I think that needs to happen. I just know, as someone who has not engaged with crafting prior, this system makes me want to not even approach it.
And then there are the guns
This is 100% getting changed so I am not going to harp on this too long. But obviously this is a crazy amount of crafting options regarding guns alone. This is not even including the more extreme element of varied ammunition, with each weapon having its own specific calibers and, seemingly, special types of ammo.
This is obviously nuts. No part of this should remain. Ammo should be packed back into categories ASAP. V2 could not even balance that right after five years. I can not imagine what this system would look like if left alone.
As far as weapons go - one of two things need to happen.
1. Most of the weapons need to be removed, leaving only a few per-category except the LMG which needs to be removed entirely. Snipers should also be removed where-ever they are found. Balance as few weapons as you reasonably can because V2 taught us how this goes.
2. The mass variety can be kept - with the caveat that every weapon within a given category operates under the same stats and crafting requirements. Essentially turning the weapon variety into nothing more than an expression of your characters flavor. The only alterations existing between category, or to account for magazine sizes and recoil to bring them all in line.
Being real, the former option is the safer one because some of us remember the SCAR. But if the second can be managed - that is fine too.
The Skill Tree
The skill tree is an interesting element because, by itself, I think it's a concept that is really onto something. Outside of probably being the most attractive UI element added to V3, it carries a unique element to the gameplay space that did not previously exist.
Inclusion of RP centric players.
Outside of the skill tree, whether medics or craftsmen or even your run of the mill jogger, every aspect of the server was geared to reward doing anything BUT standing still while committing to dialogue or actions. While the system does not directly reward it, passively gaining points removes the underlying need to break away from 'wasting time' in order to progress.
However, as it stands, it's only half of the equation, and the other half completely undoes this select benefit by its mere existence.
The biggest issue the skill tree has is being awkwardly butted against a system that was not originally designed with it in mind. The skill levels and skill tree are two distinct systems that only barely work together. With the skill levels siphoning off the highest benefit of the skill tree, and the skill tree forming an unnecessary layer of bloat to an already complex system. I would go so far to say, I don't think they work well together for this reason.
Personally, I think the skill tree actually is superior in theory. Potentially being capable of largely replacing the old skill level system, were it to be given the time and thought required to make this happen. However, the amount of time required for this is just not realistic in the end. At least I highly doubt it would be.
So, even though it does add some minor feeling of rewarding players for just hanging out and RP'ing, I do not think this really carries a tangible benefit to justify having an entirely different tab, which complicates all others its hastily connected to.
In a perfect world I believe the skill tree would form the basis of what craftsmen could craft, and doctors create etc - while the old tab would be dedicated exclusively to showing recipes and coagulate bonus/effect information. But this itself is even risky because making a good skill tree is a mountainous pain in the ass, and this would be a rather large one - even with item grouping incorporated into things like crafting.
Its presence is mostly inoffensive, but I likewise do not truly see a reason to keep it around as is.
Inclusion of RP centric players.
Outside of the skill tree, whether medics or craftsmen or even your run of the mill jogger, every aspect of the server was geared to reward doing anything BUT standing still while committing to dialogue or actions. While the system does not directly reward it, passively gaining points removes the underlying need to break away from 'wasting time' in order to progress.
However, as it stands, it's only half of the equation, and the other half completely undoes this select benefit by its mere existence.
The biggest issue the skill tree has is being awkwardly butted against a system that was not originally designed with it in mind. The skill levels and skill tree are two distinct systems that only barely work together. With the skill levels siphoning off the highest benefit of the skill tree, and the skill tree forming an unnecessary layer of bloat to an already complex system. I would go so far to say, I don't think they work well together for this reason.
Personally, I think the skill tree actually is superior in theory. Potentially being capable of largely replacing the old skill level system, were it to be given the time and thought required to make this happen. However, the amount of time required for this is just not realistic in the end. At least I highly doubt it would be.
So, even though it does add some minor feeling of rewarding players for just hanging out and RP'ing, I do not think this really carries a tangible benefit to justify having an entirely different tab, which complicates all others its hastily connected to.
In a perfect world I believe the skill tree would form the basis of what craftsmen could craft, and doctors create etc - while the old tab would be dedicated exclusively to showing recipes and coagulate bonus/effect information. But this itself is even risky because making a good skill tree is a mountainous pain in the ass, and this would be a rather large one - even with item grouping incorporated into things like crafting.
Its presence is mostly inoffensive, but I likewise do not truly see a reason to keep it around as is.
The Trait System
This system has potential, but I think it was implemented badly. The most pressing and obvious issue...
DERP
(Disco Elysium Roleplay)
Awesome game. However, the trait system is ripped so aggressively from the property that some 'skills' have been transferred with zero regard as to what they actually mean outside DE's own world. The most pressing being Shivers, as it comes with heavy suggestion of premonition. Which opens a lot of questions for a character in a HL2RP environment.
As for the ones that have a place, they are still blatantly ripped from DE without any creative license which makes the entire system just feel distracting, in my opinion. Its as if there is this strange piece of DERP implanted amidst an otherwise HL2RP environment. Everything from the names, formatting and presentation is twisted right out of that game. Which then causes the GM's who use it to unconsciously attempt to pull the traits dialogue from that game as well.
Luckily, this is a pretty quick fix.
1. Decouple the concept from Elysium. Create straight-forward names and reasonable traits that one could actually be expected to use in line with Willards own attributes (Strength, Intelligence, Agility, Perception). Redo the UI a bit to just give it some refreshed grounding in the setting.
Ensure there is an ability to gain or remove traits as characters evolve.
Remove the 'mystery traits' as it's just a bit obtuse to be chasing some obscure thought cabinet when you should just be playing your character as they are.
Pretty much all you have to do as I see it.
I have not interacted with the medical system at all so I cannot comment on it. Maybe others can plant their thoughts in the comments.
Not saying all of this is totally correct, this is kinda early after all. But I believe its worth getting thoughts out early and a dialouge started on certain topics since this is technically more of an opening event.
