GEAR WIPE

[Lost Coast Chanties]

Real ones know we already tried this but it wasn't sustainable with all those shooties around...

I miss total Lowrank death

 

[Marshall]

Make it happen, rip it off like a bandage, only the haters are hoarders!!!

 

[Marshall]

Do not the cat, also can we have cat whitelist whilst we're here

 

[Curbalas]

I agree, no comment, I will lose MONTHS and nearly a YEAR long progress, but yes. This is needed.

 

[Taliazure]

I have forwarded this to rebel reps to discuss further, thanks for the suggestion.

Many people have always agreed that yes, a full wipe would fix most of the issues we face - but previous rebel reps/lead have fought against it constantly. We would like to hear if more rebel players agree with this than disagree, too.

No way. I've put in way too much effort to get what we have just to face a third downgrade and then have OTA deployed every time right after. We've been through this before, and it didn't work. We've all invested so much time and energy into grinding for what we've got, only to log in the next day and find out, "Oh, sorry, OTA sweep because someone sneezed in a shop." Here's 10 EOW and a Strider in the Outlands.

Not everyone even "grinded" for their gear. Some of us roleplayed, took risks, and didn't just go around shooting cops to get what we have.

That being said, I do agree there are too many weapons VARIANTS. There should be maybe 2 shotguns, 2 pistols, 2 rifles, 2 SMGs, and that's it—nothing more. But at least give us something equivalent in return. Who actually thinks that removing all the guns and making everyone start with shivs is going to help?

I really like what Botulism is suggesting; I've mentioned a VERY similar idea in Discord before. I've even talked to Claptrap, and he agreed with that vision. But the way things are right now? It doesn't support that. The narrative, the character development, the city, the rank systems, Civil Protection, and all the other factions—the current setup doesn't allow for it.

For Botulism's idea to work, we'd have to go back and rewrite everything, and that's a massive undertaking. Do you really think anyone wants to go back and change everything just for a gear wipe? No. It's too much work and not worth it. The only way to pull this off is with a FULL wipe—characters, narrative, everything. But that's something the devs and Rad have said is being saved for WN V3 because they're still working on it.

So I have to disagree with this approach. It won't solve anything because we'll just end up right back where we started. Instead of trying to reduce the number of guns, let's focus on having fewer variants, screw the 10 smgs, 10 rifles. Have 2 of each and that's it, one is shit the other is kinda less shit and you can MAYBE have some attachments to get your itch scratched and done. At the end of the day it's easier to balance, it's easier to manage and above all everyone is happy.

 

[Taliazure]

Rebels dont have too much gear, there's simply more rebels on average than cops/ota (static number per deployment)

You can have the best gear on the world, the highest health out of everyone and the highest damage but the moment you are even slightly outnumbered and running towards a defensive position you are severely punished.

It's easy to abuse simple things like headglitching, long hallways and third person to stop a OTA sweep in their tracks. There's only 5 or so of them (usually) and triple the amount of rebels. You can argue that the combine should just "use all their might" but realistically if we look at it
- Helicopter isn't configured to do damage with its bombs
- It only does around 3 damage per hit
- It's usually told the S2M as per the ruleset
- Manhacks AI is retarded
- Roller AI is retarded
- Synths are just asking for an abuse report (IF PLAYED BY A GM) or asking for them to sit and stare at the enemy as they are shot down

So in the end you're left with the 6 guys that deployed with you who are just looking for the usual skirmish. (REMEMBER THIS IS A ROLEPLAY SERVER, NOT ARMA 3. NO ONE REQUIRES YOU TO OR SHOULD REQUIRE YOU TO KNOW SEAL TEAM 6 TACTICS)

Now take all of what I said, and factor in that rebels have a 200 health creature with a 80% damage reduction to all forms of hits that also does (even after being nerfed) a flat 80 damage per hit juggernaut that can run at mach 7.
Can you really blame a few peeps wanting to do some evening s2k for fun on their favourite gmod server and having to endure running around the map for 30 minutes until they get funneled into a tunnel and die? I hope not, because they aren't really to blame.

When the PK rules were being rewritten they were made pretty "Hardcore" compared to other servers, with an emphasis on PK's being the default form of punishment for a characters death.
(THIS WAS NOT THE INTENTION, kinda)

It was our priority to actually LOWER the amount of combat SIGNIFICANTLY ENOUGH to the point where "Death/PK's" itself were a RARE occurrence (maybe say once a month someone died?) which would allow for stakes to raise, for roleplay to improve and for people to actually try to not gun each other down at the first instance of aggression due to the innate fear of losing your character, and the attempted "control methods" for both sides.
(this didn't happen, lol, we failed)

Instead, a certain combine faction was essentially forced onto the map and in an attempt to accommodate to them they beltfed some rebels with loot like a factory machine, leading to a small part of the rebel playerbase being able to gear themselves up with all of the best weapons while exploiting an unbalanced faction and a map not made for head on s2k engagements. Again, this is a SMALL amount of rebels which simply were so active that it lead to them becoming the "face of rebel rp" and overshadowing everything else that other groups did/ might have done.

To answer your question after all this yap in a tldr:
Rebels too much gear? Not really.
Wipe? Maybe.
Will it fix anything? No. Too many fundamentals need to be changed for it to not be a repeat of the same thing over and over again.
Solution? A lot of new stuff in place during break. We'll see if it works.
Reason for all the deathmatching? Cuz'Wez'Let'Em'.

I'm a bit drunk sorry if this reads weird hihi.

Well... Ultima fucking nailed it.

 

[Botulism]

For Botulism's idea to work, we'd have to go back and rewrite everything, and that's a massive undertaking. Do you really think anyone wants to go back and change everything just for a gear wipe? No. It's too much work and not worth it. The only way to pull this off is with a FULL wipe—characters, narrative, everything. But that's something the devs and Rad have said is being saved for WN V3 because they're still working on it.

Let's do it,

No more OTA deployments unless shit really hits the fan.

No more caring about the gear we 'rightfully earned.'

It's not your gear, you're just borrowing it.

Are you willing to take two steps, one in the future, one in the past?

Dance with me knee-deep in Paris's blackened swamp, my love.

Dance.

 

[Taliazure]

Let's do it,

No more OTA deployments unless shit really hits the fan.

No more caring about the gear we 'rightfully earned.'

It's not your gear, you're just borrowing it.

Are you willing to take two steps, one in the future, one in the past?

Dance with me knee-deep in Paris's blackened swamp, my love.

Dance.

You see that's the thing, it will hit the fan, a week in, we get 1 ota deployment. I know this community, I played all sides and god I bet it will hit the fan.
So unless everyone here is willing to take a month more or more to wait for the server to open to let all the factions work it out and CPs be reworked to have more stunsticks than guns and have it's HANDBOOK rewriten again (Fls will go insane pls help them).
Then hey... I don't expect this to work.

 

[Botulism]

You see that's the thing, it will hit the fan, a week in, we get 1 ota deployment. I know this community, I played all sides and god I bet it will hit the fan.
So unless everyone here is willing to take a month more or more to wait for the server to open to let all the factions work it out and CPs be reworked to have more stunsticks than guns and have it's HANDBOOK rewriten again (Fls will go insane pls help them).
Then hey... I don't expect this to work.

Just needs some dedicated players and admins. Something Willard only has had a bit of and staff need to give more direction in, but if we all tried it would work.

Start of my staff team arc. Time to apply and tear down the bureaucracy.

 

[Inspector Orlok]

No way. I've put in way too much effort to get what we have just to face a third downgrade and then have OTA deployed every time right after. We've been through this before, and it didn't work. We've all invested so much time and energy into grinding for what we've got, only to log in the next day and find out, "Oh, sorry, OTA sweep because someone sneezed in a shop." Here's 10 EOW and a Strider in the Outlands.

Not everyone even "grinded" for their gear. Some of us roleplayed, took risks, and didn't just go around shooting cops to get what we have.

That being said, I do agree there are too many weapons VARIANTS. There should be maybe 2 shotguns, 2 pistols, 2 rifles, 2 SMGs, and that's it—nothing more. But at least give us something equivalent in return. Who actually thinks that removing all the guns and making everyone start with shivs is going to help?

I really like what Botulism is suggesting; I've mentioned a VERY similar idea in Discord before. I've even talked to Claptrap, and he agreed with that vision. But the way things are right now? It doesn't support that. The narrative, the character development, the city, the rank systems, Civil Protection, and all the other factions—the current setup doesn't allow for it.

For Botulism's idea to work, we'd have to go back and rewrite everything, and that's a massive undertaking. Do you really think anyone wants to go back and change everything just for a gear wipe? No. It's too much work and not worth it. The only way to pull this off is with a FULL wipe—characters, narrative, everything. But that's something the devs and Rad have said is being saved for WN V3 because they're still working on it.

So I have to disagree with this approach. It won't solve anything because we'll just end up right back where we started. Instead of trying to reduce the number of guns, let's focus on having fewer variants, screw the 10 smgs, 10 rifles. Have 2 of each and that's it, one is shit the other is kinda less shit and you can MAYBE have some attachments to get your itch scratched and done. At the end of the day it's easier to balance, it's easier to manage and above all everyone is happy.

We need to stop acting like WN V3 is right around the corner, we need to stop "saving" things for V3 like it's going to save everything, because for all of those who aren't involved in the dev work for it, it may as well not exist. We need to look at the here and now, rebels have a LOT of guns, enough to wipe CPs off the map, and because of it, on the last map it warranted a lot of OTA sweeps because CPs were wiped off the face of the earth in a few seconds.

In regards to "everything" needing to be rewritten to accommodate a wipe, I just disagree, maybe you can change my mind by explaining what exactly needs to be rewritten.

I also don't see an issue with a good variety of guns being in the server. The issue isn't the "balancing" of guns or the variety, it's more so how easy it is to obtain them. 2 guns of each variant? People like and want variety, what do you want, a shitty generic modern pistol, or a even shittier-generic modern pistol? Hm, well, maybe we'll really sit this one through, take our time to REALLY thing it through, spoiled for choice if you ask me.

There should be more emphasis on BMDs and getting these guns, they SHOULD be powerful, not shit, they should do a lot of damage, but be much more difficult to obtain, hell, I'd say removing the ability to craft them, and instead only allow BMDs to sell them, so more importance is put on them, but god forbid we change anything drastic, after all guys, V3 is coming, right?

 

[Curbalas]

I think the issue is the nature of the server being more s2k focused, leading cop WL holders into a constant state of anxiety until an inevitable ambush and a loss of character development because someone decided they wanted to show off their guns to the nearest i5. The more we push away from this the more cops will interact with each other and the citizenry, leading to better RP and more activity.

This was the exact reason why I stopped playing Civil Protection at the first place, a year old character being killed by an ambush S2K with no prior contact with the killer really demotivates a person.

 

[Taliazure]

We need to stop acting like WN V3 is right around the corner, we need to stop "saving" things for V3 like it's going to save everything, because for all of those who aren't involved in the dev work for it, it may as well not exist. We need to look at the here and now, rebels have a LOT of guns, enough to wipe CPs off the map, and because of it, on the last map it warranted a lot of OTA sweeps because CPs were wiped off the face of the earth in a few seconds.

In regards to "everything" needing to be rewritten to accommodate a wipe, I just disagree, maybe you can change my mind by explaining what exactly needs to be rewritten.

I also don't see an issue with a good variety of guns being in the server. The issue isn't the "balancing" of guns or the variety, it's more so how easy it is to obtain them. 2 guns of each variant? People like and want variety, what do you want, a shitty generic modern pistol, or a even shittier-generic modern pistol? Hm, well, maybe we'll really sit this one through, take our time to REALLY thing it through, spoiled for choice if you ask me.

There should be more emphasis on BMDs and getting these guns, they SHOULD be powerful, not shit, they should do a lot of damage, but be much more difficult to obtain, hell, I'd say removing the ability to craft them, and instead only allow BMDs to sell them, so more importance is put on them, but god forbid we change anything drastic, after all guys, V3 is coming, right

If we wipe the current system without considering future developments, we enter a cycle of constant resets, which can and has been frustrating and demotivating for players who have invested significant time and effort into the game. We already been through this twice, it didn't work.

The concern that rebels have too many guns, resulting in CPs being overwhelmed, is invalid much like how ultima explained it doesn't come down to the guns but to the player counts, the tactics, the map, the narrative, the problem is far wider than what the picture here is being shown. We need to take a step back to really see the issue, but it’s crucial to recognize that simply removing or limiting weapons won’t solve the problem. CPs and rebels are integral parts of the narrative, and both need to be viable for the story to progress meaningfully, specially when we have narratives already in place for the groups, dangerous expos, char auths among other things. A complete reset or wipe would force rebels to grind from scratch, leading to a demoralized and angry playerbase and we already lost important people with the last fiasco. Imagine the frustration of having to start over, with no guarantee that the balance issues will be addressed any better than before because the last sure weren't... New we're back here again, so did we grind for nothing again? People will be forced to regrind for guns, leading to a loss of motivation and a potential of players who feel their efforts have been wasted 3 times already.

The idea that the narrative wouldn’t need to be rewritten after a wipe is too optimistic . The current narratives, character developments, and faction dynamics are all built on the existing system. If we strip everything down and start fresh, we lose the context that gives these elements meaning that being the rebel groups, which would be hit hardest. Plans that have been months in the making would be derailed, and efforts to salvage the narrative after key members left the community would be undone. We can't simply "plug and play" new elements into the old narrative—significant reworking would be required to ensure continuity and coherence.
Soemthing that by the way takes MONTHS... Not days, not a week, it takes month(s).
But then again while having a variety of guns sounds appealing, it’s essential to consider the practicality of it. The more weapons we introduce, the harder it becomes to maintain balance. This isn’t just about numbers—it’s about creating a balance between all factions. When you have dozens of weapons, balancing each one against the others is a monumental task for our devs, ask Robert, ask Asimo, they will tell you it's not easy and it sure ain't, it sure takes a lot of hours specially with testing. The reality is that most players gravitate toward the "meta" weapons, which diminishes the value of having variety in the first place, every rebel uses the g3 because it's the meta, most other guns are not even used. A smaller arsenal is more manageable, would make it easier for developers to ensure that each weapon balanced. This doesn’t mean stripping away all variety—we can still offer customization options, like attachments, that allow players to tailor their weapons to their playstyle. This approach provides balance while still giving players the sense of individuality, who doesn't love tarkov right? Put a 10x scope on that pistol.

The idea of placing more emphasis on BMDs for obtaining powerful weapons is nice but flawed... If we make guns harder to obtain by restricting them to BMDs, we risk creating a bottleneck where only a few players control access to the most critical resources. Not only can and have bmds been very innactive before but the chips people own would just Mena that anyone could buy a dozen guns ans return back to the same issue as before. Removing the ability to craft weapons would strip away the way to fix that problem and has already been debated not to be a proper fix and taking that away could make the experience feel more restrictive and less rewarding.

It’s easy to yell out for changes that seem to address immediate issues, but we gotta consider the long-term impact. A drastic overhaul, like a wipe? might provide a temporary solution, but it could also lead to unintended consequences, such as players leaving the community due to frustration and burnout. The narrative, the balance of power, and the overall player experience are all interconnected, and changes to one will inevitably affect the others. We need to approach these issues slowly while taking into account the future of WN V3, rather than making hasty decisions based on the current state of the game and seeing if they stick or not.

 

[Botulism]

This was the exact reason why I stopped playing Civil Protection at the first place, a year old character being killed by an ambush S2K with no prior contact with the killer really demotivates a person.

Really thankful for your agreement and support Curb, I guess this is sort-of the problem with me? I've never understood why HL2RPers could do characters for half a year to a year+ on end. After a few months I always kinda get bored with my characters because I complete their goals and now there's nothing left to do but die, their story has been told. I give 'em a good death and off with the next concept, yk? I don't get the community value for it nor why it should be held to any pedestal, not even trying to put people down, just genuinely don't understand.

 

[BrennenW05]

Really thankful for your agreement and support Curb, I guess this is sort-of the problem with me? I've never understood why HL2RPers could do characters for half a year to a year+ on end. After a few months I always kinda get bored with my characters because I complete their goals and now there's nothing left to do but die, their story has been told. I give 'em a good death and off with the next concept, yk? I don't get the community value for it nor why it should be held to any pedestal, not even trying to put people down, just genuinely don't understand.

As someone who has an over 2 year old character, and a very well know rebel at that. The reason is i haven't done all the stuff i want to do yet. I play my character like i would in a TTRPG, which leads to length. I don't do one goal, complete and call it there. I set up somewhat of an endpoint and go until I reach it. I haven't reached that endpoint.

 

[Inspector Orlok]

If we wipe the current system without considering future developments, we enter a cycle of constant resets, which can and has been frustrating and demotivating for players who have invested significant time and effort into the game. We already been through this twice, it didn't work.

The concern that rebels have too many guns, resulting in CPs being overwhelmed, is invalid much like how ultima explained it doesn't come down to the guns but to the player counts, the tactics, the map, the narrative, the problem is far wider than what the picture here is being shown. We need to take a step back to really see the issue, but it’s crucial to recognize that simply removing or limiting weapons won’t solve the problem. CPs and rebels are integral parts of the narrative, and both need to be viable for the story to progress meaningfully, specially when we have narratives already in place for the groups, dangerous expos, char auths among other things. A complete reset or wipe would force rebels to grind from scratch, leading to a demoralized and angry playerbase and we already lost important people with the last fiasco. Imagine the frustration of having to start over, with no guarantee that the balance issues will be addressed any better than before because the last sure weren't... New we're back here again, so did we grind for nothing again? People will be forced to regrind for guns, leading to a loss of motivation and a potential of players who feel their efforts have been wasted 3 times already.

The idea that the narrative wouldn’t need to be rewritten after a wipe is too optimistic . The current narratives, character developments, and faction dynamics are all built on the existing system. If we strip everything down and start fresh, we lose the context that gives these elements meaning that being the rebel groups, which would be hit hardest. Plans that have been months in the making would be derailed, and efforts to salvage the narrative after key members left the community would be undone. We can't simply "plug and play" new elements into the old narrative—significant reworking would be required to ensure continuity and coherence.
Soemthing that by the way takes MONTHS... Not days, not a week, it takes month(s).
But then again while having a variety of guns sounds appealing, it’s essential to consider the practicality of it. The more weapons we introduce, the harder it becomes to maintain balance. This isn’t just about numbers—it’s about creating a balance between all factions. When you have dozens of weapons, balancing each one against the others is a monumental task for our devs, ask Robert, ask Asimo, they will tell you it's not easy and it sure ain't, it sure takes a lot of hours specially with testing. The reality is that most players gravitate toward the "meta" weapons, which diminishes the value of having variety in the first place, every rebel uses the g3 because it's the meta, most other guns are not even used. A smaller arsenal is more manageable, would make it easier for developers to ensure that each weapon balanced. This doesn’t mean stripping away all variety—we can still offer customization options, like attachments, that allow players to tailor their weapons to their playstyle. This approach provides balance while still giving players the sense of individuality, who doesn't love tarkov right? Put a 10x scope on that pistol.

The idea of placing more emphasis on BMDs for obtaining powerful weapons is nice but flawed... If we make guns harder to obtain by restricting them to BMDs, we risk creating a bottleneck where only a few players control access to the most critical resources. Not only can and have bmds been very innactive before but the chips people own would just Mena that anyone could buy a dozen guns ans return back to the same issue as before. Removing the ability to craft weapons would strip away the way to fix that problem and has already been debated not to be a proper fix and taking that away could make the experience feel more restrictive and less rewarding.

It’s easy to yell out for changes that seem to address immediate issues, but we gotta consider the long-term impact. A drastic overhaul, like a wipe? might provide a temporary solution, but it could also lead to unintended consequences, such as players leaving the community due to frustration and burnout. The narrative, the balance of power, and the overall player experience are all interconnected, and changes to one will inevitably affect the others. We need to approach these issues slowly while taking into account the future of WN V3, rather than making hasty decisions based on the current state of the game and seeing if they stick or not.

View attachment trim.7F54C270-6D9D-46D4-8418-5FAE1CDA52A5.MOV

 

[Taliazure]

Really thankful for your agreement and support Curb, I guess this is sort-of the problem with me? I've never understood why HL2RPers could do characters for half a year to a year+ on end. After a few months I always kinda get bored with my characters because I complete their goals and now there's nothing left to do but die, their story has been told. I give 'em a good death and off with the next concept, yk? I don't get the community value for it nor why it should be held to any pedestal, not even trying to put people down, just genuinely don't understand.

Because our story develops and we find new meanings and new objetives to complete?

 

[Botulism]

Because our story develops and we find new meanings and new objetives to complete?

 

[Curbalas]

Really thankful for your agreement and support Curb, I guess this is sort-of the problem with me? I've never understood why HL2RPers could do characters for half a year to a year+ on end. After a few months I always kinda get bored with my characters because I complete their goals and now there's nothing left to do but die, their story has been told. I give 'em a good death and off with the next concept, yk? I don't get the community value for it nor why it should be held to any pedestal, not even trying to put people down, just genuinely don't understand.

Stories keep continuing and continuing, you get more attached to your character as their story resumes and you get new roleplay potentials and new stories to tell, you shape a character however you want, and it's the aspect of playing a character for a year or so.

Also to the person who killed XRAY-90, fuck you. You didn't even know my character.

 

[ultima]

Also to the person who killed XRAY-90, fuck you. You didn't even know my character.

does he know

 

[Curbalas]

does he know

I did a whole OOC investigation... trust me the woman didn't know... The only PK reason that was viable was the PK rules back then, if this happened nowadays it would get appealed instantly... All that lore, an arm blown off by vortigaunts gone to waste by a bullet to the head...