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'Gritty' HL2RP & The Unseriousness of Willard: A Discussion Thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter Merlinsclaw
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RogueSynapse said:
arena fights where anti-citizens are forced to beat each other to death under the false hope they will be given freedom if they win.
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God we really need to make this a show. for BOE, On this Note, I'd kill for us to have more variety of shows.
 
albertossic said:
Yes. Don't do this please.
Neither of you has any clue what you are talking about, please don't get into debates about what garry's mod hl2 rebel clans should or shouldn't do based on your, again, comically incoherent understanding of history



This is actual gibberish. If you want to write historical analysis that would embarass a 16 year old redneck, go to the Economist. It has nothing to do with how this garry's mod game should be set up
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You come off as a condescending Twitter pseudo-intellectual. Stop with the cringy metaphors and provide something valuable to the discussion instead of hurling veiled insults.
 
verTix said:
You come off as a condescending Twitter pseudo-intellectual. Stop with the cringy metaphors and provide something valuable to the discussion instead of hurling veiled insults.
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There should be no discussion here about whether the taliban and the American independence fighters are good guys, bad guys, different, or in how far you should act like one or the other with your rebel group. I wasn't trying to "provide something" to that conversation, I was asking to shut it down

Idk what a "twitter pseudo-intellectual" means, but if this type of shit is commonly talked about on twitter, go do it there. Keep your weak history debate shit out of this video game
 
albertossic said:
There should be no discussion here about whether the taliban and the American independence fighters are good guys, bad guys, different, or in how far you should act like one or the other with your rebel group. I wasn't trying to "provide something" to that conversation, I was asking to shut it down

Idk what a "twitter pseudo-intellectual" means, but if this type of shit is commonly talked about on twitter, go do it there. Keep your weak history debate shit out of this video game
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Rebels are terrorists, In real life war gets messy and it shouldn't be sterilized on here like it is on TNB when you make war cartoony and take away the horrible gritty shit like civilians getting fucked over and innocent's dying/being maimed in the crossfire it makes it seem "Fun" to people, War is bloody and terrible, The Resistance are fighting a war whether they want to openly admit it or not. Insurgents/fighting an Insurgency/insurrection is a form of warfare, They need to set aside this lame ass Hippie shit and start actually fighting like they want to win, Don't get me wrong its chill to have humanitarian groups but we need more groups like the wardens not afraid to fuck shit up and get their hands dirty. Look at the Taliban as you mentioned, They were terrible but they fought a brutal war for nearly 30 years against the worlds most powerful military and in the end it paid off for them.

My point here is, If the rebels want to win they need to be ready to risk it and put shit on the line and actually fight not pop off a few shots defensively at Civil Protection, But lie in wait and kill CPT's and steal their kit.
 
Lol.

The people complaining do not actually play in the way that they want the server to go.

Merlin's char, Casto, has been given HUGE leeway despite his numerous IC rule breaking and id dare say more immunity than T6's at the moment.

Pawlu is CCA.

Lemme give you an account of how it actually is on the server right now as someone who plays two sides; a T6 MoC and a refugee in Indigent who was forced there due to circumstances out of his control.

You see, rebels have finally done shit and so CP's have clamped down. Rations have closed down at alarming rates or only been open for those with 125 SC or above. Sometimes they cut the ration line in half for no reason. This means people are starving and thirsty... and in comes my refugee character.

He is good with his hands and came into slums because the alternative was grinding for 3 SC and 15 credits at best that wouldn't feed him enough to last an hour, let alone a day. He found likeminded individuals and formed a small refugee group who's goal is to feed and provide water to the people and his own in group. Ive met multiple likeminded people and had some of the best passive rebelRP in a while while sitting around a camp fire, filterating water for the masses.

You wanted dystopia? Dystopia is on the server. Just flag off your over privileged characters and make a new character. Or use your overprivileged status to oppress the citizens even more; start up a campaign to get the Indigent folks to fight over rations from within the CCA's coffers in return for vital information on their fellow man you can use to blackmail them to CP's.

Do it. No one is stopping you but yourself.
 
CaptainSneed said:
Rebels are terrorists, In real life war gets messy and it shouldn't be sterilized on here like it is on TNB when you make war cartoony and take away the horrible gritty shit like civilians getting fucked over and innocent's dying/being maimed in the crossfire it makes it seem "Fun" to people, War is bloody and terrible, The Resistance are fighting a war whether they want to openly admit it or not. Insurgents/fighting an Insurgency/insurrection is a form of warfare, They need to set aside this lame ass Hippie shit and start actually fighting like they want to win, Don't get me wrong its chill to have humanitarian groups but we need more groups like the wardens not afraid to fuck shit up and get their hands dirty. Look at the Taliban as you mentioned, They were terrible but they fought a brutal war for nearly 30 years against the worlds most powerful military and in the end it paid off for them.

My point here is, If the rebels want to win they need to be ready to risk it and put shit on the line and actually fight not pop off a few shots defensively at Civil Protection, But lie in wait and kill CPT's and steal their kit.
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The argument to be made here is that rebels need the support of the average citizen in order to actually win. Unlike a contemporary government, the Combine does not care about civilian casualties. Any small group of insurgents will be wiped clean. Only a city-wide rebellion where all citizens take up arms would even have a fighting chance.

Willard is not HL2. Citizens are treated quite well by the Combine. They get free food, drink, clothes… They have no real reason to rebel.

When a Willard citizen sees rebels blowing up hospitals and dispersing Xen spores in the plaza, do they really think the rebels are the good guys? No. Almost all rebels are rebels solely because the OOC player wants to play a rebel, not because they experienced anything bad on the server.
 
swagile said:
Lol.

The people complaining do not actually play in the way that they want the server to go.

Merlin's char, Casto, has been given HUGE leeway despite his numerous IC rule breaking and id dare say more immunity than T6's at the moment.

Pawlu is CCA.

Lemme give you an account of how it actually is on the server right now as someone who plays two sides; a T6 MoC and a refugee in Indigent who was forced there due to circumstances out of his control.

You see, rebels have finally done shit and so CP's have clamped down. Rations have closed down at alarming rates or only been open for those with 125 SC or above. Sometimes they cut the ration line in half for no reason. This means people are starving and thirsty... and in comes my refugee character.

He is good with his hands and came into slums because the alternative was grinding for 3 SC and 15 credits at best that wouldn't feed him enough to last an hour, let alone a day. He found likeminded individuals and formed a small refugee group who's goal is to feed and provide water to the people and his own in group. Ive met multiple likeminded people and had some of the best passive rebelRP in a while while sitting around a camp fire, filterating water for the masses.

You wanted dystopia? Dystopia is on the server. Just flag off your over privileged characters and make a new character. Or use your overprivileged status to oppress the citizens even more; start up a campaign to get the Indigent folks to fight over rations from within the CCA's coffers in return for vital information on their fellow man you can use to blackmail them to CP's.

Do it. No one is stopping you but yourself.
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I don't think this was meant to be a jab towards me.

Overall what you said is true though. Sometimes it's best to take matters into your own hands and it's what I've attempted to do over the past few months. I've been stonewalled a few times but I still manage for the most part.

This thread was more-so a call for players, staff, and leads alike to try and make the shift towards what I see as a better server. I think seeing people like Rad-X, Maroon, You, or others doing their best would really encourage players and could lead to a better enviroment.
 
Merlinsclaw said:
I don't think this was meant to be a jab towards me.

Overall what you said is true though. Sometimes it's best to take matters into your own hands and it's what I've attempted to do over the past few months. I've been stonewalled a few times but I still manage for the most part.

This thread was more-so a call for players, staff, and leads alike to try and make the shift towards what I see as a better server. I think seeing people like Rad-X, Maroon, You, or others doing their best would really encourage players and could lead to a better enviroment.
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The push for a revamped crafting system was me and was done by Steyr and Robert at the time.

The trash changes (more trash in general) was myself.

Votton fixed quite a bit of smuggling issues.

Ive pushed for conflict and allowed players in general to do conflict as well on the server. The CP-3 incident, the slow but gradual change of the CP's from nice cops to brutal and domineering with the help of the CP leads, RL's, and a few admins was guided along as well.

The loyalist checks and loyalism in general was done by Noodle, a coalition of CM's and CP leads agreeing.

There is a lot of things in the backend that you do not see either due to a lack of access or because we do not tell you until its finished. We also bounce around ideas quite a lot that we never release either because our playerbase isn't suited for it, we do not have the proper infrastructure, or simply because it sounded like a good idea at the time but was actually terrible long term for the server.

We just don't brag about these things because we are too busy doing things.

I get where you are coming from, it is just that some of the things you ask for are really not feasible OR they can already be done by players but players choose not to do it either out of not knowing they can, or knowing they can but it would risk their character.

For example, you talk about rogue cops taking bribes and such. I played a i3 that was rogue in a similar manner and took many risks, but rebels and criminals alike didn't want to take the risk to get in contact with me so I went straight to the bar and made a contact there. It was just me and another CP chilling (since I wanted an escort so I didn't die alone) when our RL flags on and asks our location. We tell them and it ends in a huge stand off because under the counter of the Indigent bar was a fully geared rebel; something we knew but ignored while talking to the bar keep.

It ended in the rebel running out when we blocked our RL's view of said rebel, but it was too late; the RL spotted it and ran after and took the rebel down. But when the RL was grabbing said rebel, I shot them in the back and killed them, then swore my partner into secrecy before we retreated and called in a "rebel ambush".

Did I die later in a investigation because my partner chose to shoot the Captain investigating us in the face instead of playing it cool? Yes.

But I did all of that as a player with no admin help and auths I got after the fact.

@Maroon @Imperator RAD-X and @Neonity can confirm.

All CP's have to do is actually try, but they fear (and rightly so) an investigation because most of them don't know how to hide their tracks.
 
Trying my best not to be insulting, this is a comically U.S.-centric, reductive and uneducated take on basically every single group you listed. A seventh-grade North Korean child's level of understanding
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"Trying my best not to be insulting"

Proceeds to be as insulting as possible.

Certified human moment.
 
swagile said:
Lol.

The people complaining do not actually play in the way that they want the server to go.

Merlin's char, Casto, has been given HUGE leeway despite his numerous IC rule breaking and id dare say more immunity than T6's at the moment.

Pawlu is CCA.

Lemme give you an account of how it actually is on the server right now as someone who plays two sides; a T6 MoC and a refugee in Indigent who was forced there due to circumstances out of his control.

You see, rebels have finally done shit and so CP's have clamped down. Rations have closed down at alarming rates or only been open for those with 125 SC or above. Sometimes they cut the ration line in half for no reason. This means people are starving and thirsty... and in comes my refugee character.

He is good with his hands and came into slums because the alternative was grinding for 3 SC and 15 credits at best that wouldn't feed him enough to last an hour, let alone a day. He found likeminded individuals and formed a small refugee group who's goal is to feed and provide water to the people and his own in group. Ive met multiple likeminded people and had some of the best passive rebelRP in a while while sitting around a camp fire, filterating water for the masses.

You wanted dystopia? Dystopia is on the server. Just flag off your over privileged characters and make a new character. Or use your overprivileged status to oppress the citizens even more; start up a campaign to get the Indigent folks to fight over rations from within the CCA's coffers in return for vital information on their fellow man you can use to blackmail them to CP's.

Do it. No one is stopping you but yourself.
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Yeah. Nothing screams dystopia more than being forced to remain hungry for the whole day. Being forced to beg to Civil Protection, high-status individuals or work yourself up the ladder.
 
verTix said:
The argument to be made here is that rebels need the support of the average citizen in order to actually win. Unlike a contemporary government, the Combine does not care about civilian casualties. Any small group of insurgents will be wiped clean. Only a city-wide rebellion where all citizens take up arms would even have a fighting chance.

Willard is not HL2. Citizens are treated quite well by the Combine. They get free food, drink, clothes… They have no real reason to rebel.

When a Willard citizen sees rebels blowing up hospitals and dispersing Xen spores in the plaza, do they really think the rebels are the good guys? No. Almost all rebels are rebels solely because the OOC player wants to play a rebel, not because they experienced anything bad on the server.
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Also in response to this, you're wrong. Civil Protection is pretty brutal. I've seen CP's go ahead and bully people, beat them up, they starve people for the fun of it, and sometimes pull people off of the line for no reason other than "I don't like your face". There are a lot of factors that indicate that Civil Protection is the bad guy and there are multiple reasons that motivate people to rebel.
 
swagile said:
Lol.

The people complaining do not actually play in the way that they want the server to go.

Merlin's char, Casto, has been given HUGE leeway despite his numerous IC rule breaking and id dare say more immunity than T6's at the moment.
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Casto's character has enjoyed more leeway, and has thus been able to create a city environment in which people are riled up into what are essentialy anti-poverty riots to keep them from questioning the authority of the Combine. Like I said in another message, less big brother, more cyberpunk.

If I'm understanding right what @Merlinsclaw means, then Casto is a great example of the sort of vision he has for hl2rp
You seem to be needlessly defensive in response to this suggestion as if it was criticism of your mechanics changes, when it actually is a general direction in which to take the server that I actually think you'd agree with

For example taking one of the things you mentioned looking into once, downscaling the severity of crimes in Indigent, is exactly what I think Merlinsclaw thinks would go in this direction : Caught with some shit in Indigent? No logging into the big abstract (and kind of boring) criminal registry, just a beating. So no logged crimes, then why would CP even patrol Indigent? They don't get any arrests on their records, so no promotion - plus, less severe punishment means more encouragement for people to resist! The answer? CPs just stay even more out of Indigent, leaving it a lawless district rife for territorial disputes between gangs
 
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