Implemented Gunskill Overhaul

[M!NT]

OK so I think we can all agree that the gun skill is currently somewhat useless outside S2RP scenarios which, currently, are somewhat rare. This results in people with 1 gun skill being as good at combat as someone with maxed gun skill. This sort of defeats the whole purpose of having a skill system in the first place. So, to fix this, I believe the gun skill should have an affect over S2K.

1. Gun skill should affect weapon accuracy:
   1. If a character with gun skill 1 picks up an M4, they are just as deadly at medium to long range as someone with 30 gun skill in S2K.
   2. To fix this, gun accuracy cones should be larger for people with a lower gun skill.
2. Gun skill should affect weapon recoil:
   1. If a character with gun skill 1 picks up an MP7, they can shoot it with the same amount of control at full auto as someone with 30 gun skill in S2K.
   2. To fix this, gun recoil intensity should be higher for people with a lower gun skill.
3. Gun skill should affect the weapons which characters can use:
   1. Someone with zero experience shooting a gun can shoot high caliber firearms (such as semi-auto 12gauge shotguns, high caliber rifles, etc).
   2. To fix this, certain guns (such as 12gauge, high caliber rifles, etc) should fly out of the hands of a character who has too low of a gun skill to shoot it.

These changes will add a lot more depth to character building, and allow S2K mechanics to be tied to your character's abilities. This is an RP server, after all.

 

[Kranky]

should fly out of the hands of a character who has too low of a gun skill to shoot it.

I agree with this.

Imagine trying to shotcop but having the gun fly out of your hands.

 

[Fallizs]

"wait for v3"

 

[RedHotGinger]

should fly out of the hands of a character who has too low of a gun skill to shoot it.

Bridge too far.
Fine with everything else but this would border on parody.

I've never fired a fully automatic rifle, however, put one In my hands and I could absolutely prevent it from leaving them. It's not even a realistic effect for anyone other than maybe a pampered 5 foot 2 college girl.

Plus, this means you live and die on hard RNG. Others effect your capacity to fight, but within reason. And those negatives can be overcome and mitigated.
You drop your gun randomly in a fight and you are simply going to die.

 

[M!NT]

I've never fired a fully automatic rifle, however, put one In my hands and I could absolutely prevent it from leaving them. It's not even a realistic effect for anyone other than maybe a pampered 5 foot 2 college girl.

I have.

If you don't know how to hold a gun correctly, and you're not prepared for it, I could certainly see someone dropping it. There's tons of videos on the internet of people doing that exact thing. I've seen it first hand before at various gun ranges. Happens more often than you think. Which is why usually, when someone is shooting a gun for the first time, you only load one round..

Anyways,

Plus, this means you live and die on hard RNG. Others effect your capacity to fight, but within reason. And those negatives can be overcome and mitigated.
You drop your gun randomly in a fight and you are simply going to die.

Its not a 'random' event. If your skill level is below the required level, then you can't handle the recoil and you drop the gun when you fire it once. Has nothing to do with RNG.

Fine with everything else but this would border on parody.

I think it would offer people a clear progression for their characters, and require them to invest some time and resources before they can fire the 'end-game' guns.

 

[Donavin Jones]

Yous a developer.

 

[BrennenW05]

I can't wait for my gun to eject out of my hands and fly across a room.
don't make it fly out of their hands, they just drop it in it Infront of them.

 

[Robert]

The gun should drop yes. Maybe not fly exactly, but drop to the floor.

Before I sleep And to answer the above which Redhot mentioned:

I've never fired a fully automatic rifle, however, put one In my hands and I could absolutely prevent it from leaving them. It's not even a realistic effect for anyone other than maybe a pampered 5 foot 2 college girl.

I would like to point out that even myself went to America one day to go to a firing range to shoot some guns as a little experience package I got one day.... can very easily say that even a pistol has some very powerful force most are unprepared for and the amount of instruction required to fire one while it does sound simple and easy to follow- to the untrained person with no muscle memory or any form of actual developed skill in using firearms then knowing how to hold one, how to fire it, how to load, use it, etc etc is all very hard for most.

To be fair, I didn't find it hard to pick up and get the hang of easily, but others in the room that day, the average person not into firearms really did struggle and not understand much at all and needed the trained people to constantly assist holding just a mere pistol.

Moment it came to the larger and more powerful weapons, even small weapons with a bit more punch than your regular sidearm felt like it was about to take off from my hands upon pressing the trigger down. Infact, its one of the reasons why the trainers help the untrained folk hold their weapons, because if they didn't, they do expect you to drop that weapon, aim it incorrectly, or even panic- but yeah, they have seen guns go flying and get dropped quite often.

But yeah, the bigger and larger calibre weapons were no joke, those are ready to take off for anyone not prepared- it felt like trying to hold down something that just wanted to disappear into the ceiling or escape far far away the moment the trigger was pressed. Just one bullet being fired is normally enough to force you backwards, yank your arms into the air and feel like someone really strong has just punched you with full force with no time to react.

The long and short of all the above, guns are no joke and to anyone not ready, they can and will get dropped without much effort at all and quite often. Even some who are trained to experience the same thing sometimes since the force can be quite overwhelming and tire you out very quickly.

 

[HalfLife2CitizenMale09]

I always felt guns not dropping in stuff was because that’d be really frustrating, honestly, like a trade off for realism sorta thing.

Other ideas sound neat enough though.

 

[M!NT]

UPDATE

Had a bit of time to work on this tonight. While this isn't final, here is a brief demo showing that this is possible with our current SWEPs, and what it would look like in game.

In this example, I start at level 2 and can barely shoot a watermelon, and the recoil is nearly unmanageable. At level 40 the recoil is a lot more controllable, and shooting the watermelon is trivial...

 

[Donavin Jones]

UPDATE

Had a bit of time to work on this tonight. While this isn't final, here is a brief demo showing that this is possible with our current SWEPs, and what it would look like in game.

In this example, I start at level 2 and can barely shoot a watermelon, and the recoil is nearly unmanageable. At level 40 the recoil is a lot more controllable, and shooting the watermelon is trivial...

It'll give shooting ranges a purpose, however that recoil be going a little insano style.

 

[Imperator RAD-X]

UPDATE

This is soooooooo going to cause severe whiplash to a lot of people. Want to place bets people will call it a bug and report it in? lmao

 

[BrennenW05]

UPDATE

Had a bit of time to work on this tonight. While this isn't final, here is a brief demo showing that this is possible with our current SWEPs, and what it would look like in game.

In this example, I start at level 2 and can barely shoot a watermelon, and the recoil is nearly unmanageable. At level 40 the recoil is a lot more controllable, and shooting the watermelon is trivial...

have each weapon have a minimal gun skill required to use it properly, below that minimum, a less severe version of that happens, above it works a normal, like strength required to use each gun effectively in Fallout 1 and 2.

 

[Risvolto]

1. 1. Someone with zero experience shooting a gun can shoot high caliber firearms (such as semi-auto 12gauge shotguns, high caliber rifles, etc).
   2. To fix this, certain guns (such as 12gauge, high caliber rifles, etc) should fly out of the hands of a character who has too low of a gun skill to shoot it.

I feel this last part is unnecessary given the rest of the post. But the other two steps you mentioned seem like a great idea.

 

[Risvolto]

UPDATE

Had a bit of time to work on this tonight. While this isn't final, here is a brief demo showing that this is possible with our current SWEPs, and what it would look like in game.

In this example, I start at level 2 and can barely shoot a watermelon, and the recoil is nearly unmanageable. At level 40 the recoil is a lot more controllable, and shooting the watermelon is trivial...

This does seem pretty bugged, as it's not only the recoil but also the first bullet doesn't even impact correctly even at level 40
talked with mint and turns out it isn't bugged

 

[M!NT]

have each weapon have a minimal gun skill required to use it properly, below that minimum, a less severe version of that happens, above it works a normal, like strength required to use each gun effectively in Fallout 1 and 2.

x lvls below the recommended results in the gun being dropped when someone tries to shoot it.

 

[0xNiklas]

UPDATE

Had a bit of time to work on this tonight. While this isn't final, here is a brief demo showing that this is possible with our current SWEPs, and what it would look like in game.

In this example, I start at level 2 and can barely shoot a watermelon, and the recoil is nearly unmanageable. At level 40 the recoil is a lot more controllable, and shooting the watermelon is trivial...

Perspective as former CP (o7) and Rebel player.
This is great, but you can see the Rebel coping about the fact, that CPs have more stocks of ammo and are better prepared in combat than the Main Character Gorden Shitman himself.

OTAs
- Require 50/50 skill at the creation and always keep that stat, obviously
- Makes them an actual threat than just the "bigger armor and more ammo CP". You require to coordinate strikes precisely and use your ammo wise

CPs
- Citizen, who conscripted. Obviously without knowledge (unless) so its fine
- PassivRP with the range could be cool, forces the Rank Leaders and Captains to train their units. If they expect to get proper cover by their units
- No longer Command Units can expect their 5'4ft Femcop to know, how you shoot with an AR2, AK, M4, MP and LMGs so on.
- Units can RP their "New to the force" thing in their shootings. Can't be punished anymore (I've seen)

Rebels
- 100% will cope about this one
- Will 100% to re-think their usage of ammo
- Require to coordinate strikes in groups
- No longer "Spray at the angle, until you kill someone" or the "pre-fire and hope you kill someone"

 

[RedHotGinger]

I'm gonna be real. That recoil is nothing short of comical. Something needs to be done with that to alleviate that sense of parody.

Limiting fire rate while cutting back on recoil. Something like that.

 

[Eternal_Light]

As an American who loves guns, although not having much chance to use them a lot, I recall during my first time(s) where I was just told to make sure I hold on tightly and do not let go. It's not hard to hold onto a semi-automatic firearm. Pistols, rifles, and shotguns alike. Out of all weapons, the shotgun is the only one that one could make the argument that it'd fly out of someone's hands, in the hands of someone without experience; though against this, I did just fine my first shot. Of course, more powerful, "rarer", guns can cause more force than even the amateur gun-goer is used to, but I say that if you want guns flying out of peoples' hands, then the skill level bar needs to be max 5 points just for an average shotgun and honestly a standard pistol shouldn't come out of the hands. I think the massive recoil and shooting cone can make up for this.

As a rookie shooter, I don't forget the moments where I am trying to aim down sights as well. I think low skill level gun control could perhaps require a slightly longer period of time to straighten the sights to become more accurate, but a quick ADS can be not so accurate- just like real life.

Note: I do realize that there are either arrogant people, or ignorant people who can allow the gun to go crazy their first time, but, generally, I'd think the super basics of gun control is somewhat common sense to the majority of people; I'd say this moreso with a populace that survived the portal storms.

 

[M!NT]

I'm gonna be real. That recoil is nothing short of comical. Something needs to be done with that to alleviate that sense of parody.

Limiting fire rate while cutting back on recoil. Something like that.