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High Command

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Thood74

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Aug 18, 2020
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Yes, this post is based off the other post.

INTRO

High Command has always filled a particular niche. The background of Civil Protection/Overwatch operation. This initially came mostly in the flavour of extremely shallow characters who would use a red eyed model from that one CP pack every server used, probably called the 'Commander/CMD/CmD' or 'Sectoral Commander/SeC'. These initial attempts at establishing a human Combine hierarchy were probably the lowest point of such a concept, as most of these characters rarely contributed anything beyond having an overwhelming presence portrayed by a self-centred individual who guided the events around them to their whims for their enjoyment and nobody elses intentionally.

We moved past this at some point, and are something closer to what we have now, at least on the higher quality servers. Pseudo-political officials who hold a more bureaucratic place in the hierarchy than anything. The overseers on Willard are a variation of this. A far bigger improvement than the SeC's of years ago...

...Yet, it would seem the problem has not been fully handled.

DYSTOPIA AND DOORKICKERS

The presence of a sadistic character in High Command whose only purpose is to hurt, bully and generally lord power does not instill feelings of that ever-important and reused word. Dystopia. Great suffering or injustice.

Whenever I've felt a moment of such great suffering, injustice or better yet, deep thought with regards to HL2 in any medium, it has been the quiet moments without immediate threat that allow me to reflect on the current situation. Overlooking dry coasts where antlions unrelentingly attack in between being able to quietly park myself near abandoned buildings, an abandoned City square with a telescreen of a scientist turned administrator spouting propaganda he uses in an attempt to reassure himself he's done the right thing, or in HLA where construction striders failed to acknowledge my presence even after nearly crushing me and crushing my drone ally while they gracefully moved between rooftops. Or pretty much EVERY non-combat segment in the Citadel or Nova Prospekt.

The feeling that things have been irrevokably damaged, I am an afterthought and I have little to no power to change it. feelings that I am witnessing great suffering or injustice.

There's even a video I'd describe as a definitive style guide to what I like to see in HL2/HLA with regards to the depressing atmosphere, and I'll leave it here for the curious.

Whereas in most servers or fan made mediums in general, the go-to approach seems to be something closer to the apartment raid scene in the third map. The dehumanised Civil Protection thugs with SMGs and cattle prods kicking down doors and incapacitating or killing civilians with no hesitation. The overwhelming presence of the Combine, instead of being able to quietly reflect on the consequences of their rule. While necessary in HL2 for the sake of making the quieter, more existential moments more impactful, I cannot quite say the same here.

HIGH COMMAND
(With a few mentions of the average jackboot cop, who they should strive to use as a tool for action instead of directly taking it upon themselves to appear unless entirely necessary.)


What is High Command? Are they dystopic, malicious, superior entities that do not need to be seen to be heard and felt, or noblemen who lord power over those below them to channel feelings of inferiority and frustration into attempts at motivating them to rebel and develop their characters. Cause it feels a lot more like the latter.

Instead of being the unseen entity reflective of the Combine that they are, High Command appear to engage in activities that seem to schizophrenically range from walking around the City with a Transhuman entourage to beating a loyalist, breaking an arm, hosting a mock trial irreflective of the fact that the Combine have entirely abandoned the illusion of due process and partially deafening them with a firearm just for a laugh without so much as a caution for having effectively just gone down from their metaphorical ivory tower, where they are presumably busy doing what little work could not be automised or assigned to stalkers and observing a citizen being personally beaten following a kangaroo court style scenario.

While the former can be rationalised in some way or another, the latter outright goes against the atmosphere of an unseen, alien entity that is so beyond you it cannot be quantified with the human tongues. It portrays the Combine as administrated by or at the very least represented on Earth by self-centred, egotistical individuals whose only motives are to make those around them suffer with no regards to actually forwarding the Combines goals, either out of the belief that it may benefit humanity in the long run (perhaps by keeping some sort of personality, or human serfdom) or at the very least postpone its decay in the short term with law and order. Instead being psychopaths like those they are supposed to oversee with no further motive.

Controversially, this sort of sadism is miles more UNDERSTANDABLE (IN LORE) when it comes from a jackboot cop, albeit it never should've gone quite so far if it was. High Command are people considered to represent the alien, superior part of the Combine in favour of the Dispatch AI, or a cold and inhuman soldier in layers of body armour. And when I see the sort of generic, tasteless sadism that contributes nothing but the belief that Civil Protection is administered by people no better than the actual sadists behind the masks on the street, it doesn't humanise the ones on the street retroactively. It's an embarrassment to the entire faction.

OVERALL/CLOSING NOTES

High Command should either not exist, being replaced with the presence of Overwatch or Dispatch, or should be distinctly recognisable as characters with their own motives for collaborating, even if it doesn't sit well with them, with the implications that they have their own bosses. For each and every one of them. Yet also trying to remain unseen whenever it isn't necessary. When something is so far above you, it doesn't feel the urge to make itself known. Instead, it'll be so far above you that you simply cannot see it. Instead using the jackboot cop as it's personal enforcer, as it should.

This is only aimed at Civil Protection High Command. While other immersion breaks exist out there that I'm comfortable you can now ID, they aren't the focus.

I'm sorry I don't have a lot of time to fact check or format this post. I'm exhausted (4:50 AM), and I feel like highlighting what I see as a thematic fatal error in Willard's Civil Protection (a faction well known for its importance rivalling only the Citizens) is far more important than making sure every base is covered, as there is no particular reason for this behaviour to be acceptable anyways. And I doubt I've entirely missed my mark after everything I've witnessed across my time on Willard as a lurker. However, if I've made a FACTUAL error, not something that clashes with your own views, feel free to highlight it as I do not wish to spread any misinformation.

I ALSO think it's better off if this post is locked once I've posted it. Believe it or not, this doesn't just exist to continue the argument from the last post about HC. This is simply my prolonged letter about its innumerable flaws as a system. HC does not need to respond with any sort of acknowledgement to make positive change, and yet I feel like this will be willfully disregarded due to the fact it comes not long after that other post that inspired this poorly worded essay. Which I pray it won't.

I feel a lot better now that I got this off my chest, and I also feel very exhausted. So I'm going to sleep now. While my hopes aren't high, I'll see whats become of this post when I wake, if anything.
 
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First a warning to everyone, if this thread spirals down hill like the one before. I'm locking it.

I can get what you're saying but as you mentioned in your first sentence, "Yes, this post is based off the other post." The very same post that left out context and lacks in-depth knowledge of what is going on at that scene. This is very much an outsider's perspective which is no insult or me trying to call your post completely wrong. Sadism/Torture RP is a whole different experience (or rather a rare one is the best way to word it) considering it rarely happens as there are few powerful characters who display such behavior. But I want to focus on the High Command part first before shoveling my way to that part of the discussion.

Civil Protection High Command, more specifically the Overseers and Captains, rarely come into play. So they are very much a rare entity for players to see. Even for Civil Protection units (Rank Leaders as well) and the CCA, it is rare for them to ever encounter them besides JUDGE-011 paying his frequent visits (who by the way is just a straight up a chill Captain, not friendly but neutral). All only showing up for events or for IC matters that involve them or just once in a blue moon to provide some passive rp. Throughout my eight months of playing on this faction consistently (WN has ruined my life, I am in debt!), not once have I experienced behavior such as sadism or even torture RP from any of them besides Wittrow. This isn't to say they are non-threatening, but they are not as bad as you say they are. They set the tone very well and bring a unique passive roleplay. Just because one player recently had the unfortunate RARE IC meeting with Wittrow that led to their character being beaten and belittled (which yes, no one likes to be treated that way but a lot of context was missing from that post), doesn't suddenly mean that we need to change how it all works in Civil Protection Command.

To your response regarding the dystopian feel, I feel like that is just one we cannot simply fix in Willard's current setting. It's not something that Civil Protection faction can realize and fix on the fly, it's something for the whole server has to deal with together. You do make interesting points. But unfortunately, the setting on this server has been very relaxed. Even the CPs are relaxed, most of them that is. People able to have benefits, go to banquets, vortigaunts having some rights, Legislative Assembly, loyalist, etc. None of these things would be something that the Combine would allow to exist. But they exist because it is a better alternative for roleplay. HL2RP can't be the pure vanilla HL2/HLA experience some people want or at least most of the aspects from those two games. Especially considering Willard Network has been in this state for a good while now. Either a hard reset happens or a change in the narrative might do some good. Who knows, I might be rambling at this point.

Anyways, 12 am. I didn't cover everything in your post but plan to. I'll love to discuss this further with you. And I hope everyone here can be constructive and civil about this. If not, then this subject will most definitely not be brought up again when this one gets locked.
 
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I've said it for a long time. Make a dystopia but make it interesting.

Right now, things are barely dystopic and it's not interesting. As a result, you have people who try to make a dystopic setting but fail to make it interesting because their only concept of a dystopia is beating the shit out of someone and being mean/cringe.

The problem is being stonewalled by people who can't comprehend an interesting dystopia. People who argued that the Casto thing was anti-union (lol) or even as seen in the CP thread have a problem with people being spied on, investigated, etc.

I doubt this problem will be solved.
 
Stop forum ratting. You don't play this server and I remember your leaving from the community was less than frontally kind to the rest of us.

Don't come here to join back in by trying to give mass-reform suggestions when you have had no idea what's been happening the previous four to six months. We're doing very fine without it, thank you very much.
 
First a warning to everyone, if this thread spirals down hill like the one before. I'm locking it.

I can get what you're saying but as you mentioned in your first sentence, "Yes, this post is based off the other post." The very same post that left out context and lacks in-depth knowledge of what is going on at that scene. This is very much an outsider's perspective which is no insult or me trying to call your post completely wrong. Sadism/Torture RP is a whole different experience (or rather a rare one is the best way to word it) considering it rarely happens as there are few powerful characters who display such behavior. But I want to focus on the High Command part first before shoveling my way to that part of the discussion.

Civil Protection High Command, more specifically the Overseers and Captains, rarely come into play. So they are very much a rare entity for players to see. Even for Civil Protection units (Rank Leaders as well) and the CCA, it is rare for them to ever encounter them besides JUDGE-011 paying his frequent visits (who by the way is just a straight up a chill Captain, not friendly but neutral). All only showing up for events or for IC matters that involve them or just once in a blue moon to provide some passive rp. Throughout my eight months of playing on this faction consistently (WN has ruined my life, I am in debt!), not once have I experienced behavior such as sadism or even torture RP from any of them besides Wittrow. This isn't to say they are non-threatening, but they are not as bad as you say they are. They set the tone very well and bring a unique passive roleplay. Just because one player recently had the unfortunate RARE IC meeting with Wittrow that led to their character being beaten and belittled (which yes, no one likes to be treated that way but a lot of context was missing from that post), doesn't suddenly mean that we need to change how it all works in Civil Protection Command.

To your response regarding the dystopian feel, I feel like that is just one we cannot simply fix in Willard's current setting. It's not something that Civil Protection faction can realize and fix on the fly, it's something for the whole server has to deal with together. You do make interesting points. But unfortunately, the setting on this server has been very relaxed. Even the CPs are relaxed, most of them that is. People able to have benefits, go to banquets, vortigaunts having some rights, Legislative Assembly, loyalist, etc. None of these things would be something that the Combine would allow to exist. But they exist because it is a better alternative for roleplay. HL2RP can't be the pure vanilla HL2/HLA experience some people want or at least most of the aspects from those two games. Especially considering Willard Network has been in this state for a good while now. Either a hard reset happens or a change in the narrative might do some good. Who knows, I might be rambling at this point.

Anyways, 12 am. I didn't cover everything in your post but plan to. I'll love to discuss this further with you. And I hope everyone here can be constructive and civil about this. If not, then this subject will most definitely not be brought up again when this one gets locked.
🤓
 
you ignore thood because he hasnt played or his take is to hot

i ignore thood because he is thood

He has some valid concerns, but I feel what you and @vilhjalmrf had stated in this thread are more legitimate concerns that needs to be addressed in the near future rather then someone who never actually plays on this server as RAD-X had stated.
 
The thread still wasn't locked :(

Reminder this is purely trying to press the issue of High Command, and any argument away from that isn't mine.

He has some valid concerns, but I feel what you and @vilhjalmrf had stated in this thread are more legitimate concerns that needs to be addressed in the near future rather then someone who never actually plays on this server as RAD-X had stated.
Just because I'm not active doesn't mean the points are illegitimate.

I'd just prefer server administration review the HC system. Which the last post by someone who was witness to one of these examples firsthand didn't seem to cause.

This isn't to say they are non-threatening, but they are not as bad as you say they are. They set the tone very well and bring a unique passive roleplay. Just because one player recently had the unfortunate RARE IC meeting with Wittrow that led to their character being beaten and belittled (which yes, no one likes to be treated that way but a lot of context was missing from that post), doesn't suddenly mean that we need to change how it all works in Civil Protection Command.
While I'm ultimately against these High Command figures being seen, I can understand it far more when a sort of passive experience is in play. This 'Wittrow' individual seems to have a history that mostly alligns with the Sectoral Commanders of the past. Or someone like Richardson from another server. Someone in a position of extreme influence whose only significant use of it is to engage in cruel acts.

Wittrow represents a High Command system, and when it is used to engage in acts of sadism and harrassment, it is straight up unacceptable regardless of the context I seem to lack, which seems to be some sort of dispute between an OSI style appointed loyalist investigator who wanted a meeting (which makes this all worse, as they were TRYING to get some sort of positive interaction from this) and the MCP. Even if this was purely between cops for some sort of IA dispute, or was the interrogration of an actual resistance member, it'd be unacceptable still due to the sheer brutality at play.

If you are arguing it is legitimately just this character responsible for misrepresenting High Command then I feel comfortable proposing the solution that Wittrow, not the person who plays them who is responsible for the OOC leadership of the faction, is replaced with another character who doesn't wish to engage in sadism or harrassment.

Since said sadism isn't coming from the OOC person, this should be easy.
 
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He has some valid concerns, but I feel what you and @vilhjalmrf had stated in this thread are more legitimate concerns that needs to be addressed in the near future rather then someone who never actually plays on this server as RAD-X had stated.

Honestly the main problem for me stems from the fact WN has two diametrically opposed camps in upper management/staff/faction leads for how the server should be run and how far the base setting should be stuck to.

Like @Merlinsclaw said, its not something that's easily fixed unfortunately because these views directly impact how certain people act on server and run their niches of it. A lot of the most interesting stuff will never be permitted to happen without massive interference IC simply because they don't agree with it.
 
in my honest opinion, WN’s current map gives off the dystopian feel enough to immerse myself into the world around me so i don’t really have a problem with that, and im sure everyone else will say the same thing even though they may be familiar with the map for the last couple of months up to a year.

what @vilhjalmrf said is true, you mostly see low level grunts of CPs running the city. i am glad that high command are rarely ever seen outside of events or something to a similar effect, because if they were all just running around beating on citizens i wouldn’t be making this reply supporting what basically everyone else is saying in the thread. even if you do see high command basically torturing someone or beating on them, it’s a rare sort of thing to happen and doesn’t occur every time a HC officer decides to hop on.

i’d say just play the game for a little while and actually interact with the players rather than “lurking” as you said before as it creates a negative perception on the people you’re talking about.
 
in my honest opinion, WN’s current map gives off the dystopian feel enough to immerse myself into the world around me so i don’t really have a problem with that, and im sure everyone else will say the same thing even though they may be familiar with the map for the last couple of months up to a year.

what @vilhjalmrf said is true, you mostly see low level grunts of CPs running the city. i am glad that high command are rarely ever seen outside of events or something to a similar effect, because if they were all just running around beating on citizens i wouldn’t be making this reply supporting what basically everyone else is saying in the thread. even if you do see high command basically torturing someone or beating on them, it’s a rare sort of thing to happen and doesn’t occur every time a HC officer decides to hop on.

i’d say just play the game for a little while and actually interact with the players rather than “lurking” as you said before as it creates a negative perception on the people you’re talking about.
The maps ultimately an opinionated subject when you are talking about tone, but the rest is fair.

Although, I'm very much against the idea that I'm creating a negative perception on anyone, though. I think the HC officer I've used as an example, Wittrow, does that for himself with acts of what can be fairly called torture, sadism and harassment that have no place on a HL2RP server that also reflect negatively on the rest of the HC section of the CP faction.

All in all, if this isn't a faction problem like I've been led to believe and HC is somehow not an immersion breaking representation of the upper echelon of the Combine Government, then I suppose I'm fine with just correcting the presence of sadism in those higher ranks instead of removing the ranks entirely. Though from what I hear, that's an extremely limited issue with one character responsible for it. I hope that isn't considered too much still.

Apologies for any prior misrepresentations I made. I never intend to make any and HC is ultimately one of the lesser issues that plague WN as Rabid describes, but I do feel its a relatively easy one to solve. All one in charge needs to do is not be willingly apathetical to it and let it go on.
 
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