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Increase the danger in the Subway, and the penalty system from toxic gas exposure (Xen spores).

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Janek

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Nov 13, 2021
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67
Why, what and how?


Why?

First off, it is important for me to state the reasons, as to why I am making this suggestion in the first place. After spending hours of time inside the subway system, it has become clear just how rewarding the subway system is, compared to how little dangerous and penalizing it is. There is a good set of options, when it comes to traders. They are a craft-specialist's best friend, as they have absolutely everything a craftsman could desire. There are so many loot locations, and we even have some wooden containers among them.

It is funny to say this, but the barnacles, the rarely occuring xen creatures on two or more legs, as well as the "toxic" gas, are less of a threat to anti-citizens than a civil protection unit. Not to mention, the gas, is not life threatening at all. Yes, you get some stinky vision that lasts for however long, but with enough to do above, you will have no problem waiting it out. How about my character? Would she not stink and be riddled with sickness, since she spends more than half her day, without any protective equipment in an alien filled gas environment? It is not apparent, and one can subjectively decide, if they smell like fresh cut grass and red roses on a shiny day, after a trip in the subway.

We need to increase the danger, and the penalties that come with the subway system. It should not take mere minutes to speedrun an entire subway system, due to running not increasing the rate at which gas is inhaled, as well as the subway system having basically zero dangers. Sure, go through the system without a flashlight, and get caught by a barnacle, or get crabbed. However, that is the only thing you need for a trip throughout that system. A flashlight. You don't need a melee weapon, and sure as hell not a gun.


What?
What to do about it? There are a myriad of things which can be done about this. We already have some stat penalties in place, some coughs and etc., but when does that actually have an effect on you, and others' roleplay experience? When does it change the playstyle and risk-approaches to the system? How many mistakes are there really to be learnt from? The most obvious thing is to implement more factors/penalties. Things that will have an effect on how other characters perceive and interact with your character. I am sure, my character's morale would dive lower than the subway system, due to how disgusting her clothes would be, as well as the smell that would surround her. Her ability to be social comfortably, will decrease significantly. Planning will become more tedious, as one has to plan how long they would spend in the system, as well as what gear they are willing to risk, to increase their chances of survival. Bringing medical items and at least a melee weapon, should be the minimum. The most important thing isn't to make the deal with the trader, or find a few bags of metal scraps, for damned be the loot, if you can't get out with it alive in the first place.

How?
So, how do we increase the dangers and penalties of the subway? I would like to propose a few concepts.

1. Increase the rate, at which toxic gas is inhaled, depending on movement behavior throughout the subway system.
Activities, such as running and jumping, should increase the rate at which gas is inhaled. This will prevent people from speedrunning the subway system, and be mindful about their movement. Jumping over multiple obstacles is a tedious task, and should also increase the rate at which gas is inhaled.
Running is another matter. When you decide to run, is up to you and the danger of the situation you're in. If you're not careful, the amount of running you'll have to do will increase significantly. Spending too much time in the subway system and lacking normal oxygen, will force you to use the remaining time you have left, running out of the system, due to the risk of dying. Attracting the attention of dangerous creatures, will force you to either run away or fight. There's a risk to both choices, as you either limit the amount of time you can stay in there, or risk becoming injured by the creature, possibly dying depending on preparedness and luck.


2. Raise the short-term damage from toxic gas inhalation.
Currently, we have some stat penalties, which last until you are cleansed from the gas. Your vision is also affected, and to a good degree. However, I believe there is not enough consequence to the stat penalties. Instead of a level based penalty, it should be percentage of level based. I will refer to that as well in the next point. The reason for it to be percentage based, is due to the agility level cap. You can achieve level 50, and run faster than someone who's half your level, while still suffering from weeks of toxic gas inhalation, due to the penalty being nothing more than 10 levels. I propose a penalty ranging between 1-20% for agility, strength and perception, and a 1-10% penalty for any crafting related stats.


3. Implement long-term damage from toxic gas inhalation.
It is important to have long-term consequences for a lack of preparation. Even people who are well-prepared will suffer consequences depending on their preparedness. Unless you have a type 2 chem suit or alike, you will not negate 100% of the toxic environment. It is for that reason, the total amount of time you decide to spend in the subway, should have a severe consequence. It would be ideal for the long-term damage to last for either weeks or months, if not permanent. The penalties should be very subtle compared to the short-term, but amount to a relatively high stat penalty, level percentage based, if not one or more chronic illnesses.


4. Increase the presence of Xen spawns, not Combine.
What is fundamental to a Xen infested area, is the presence of Xen spawns. In Half Life: Alyx for example, Xen creatures are everywhere. The presence of Combine units depend on various events that may take place. The presence of zombies, while in very low amounts, would especially be present around the subway trains or in seating areas. To my experience navigating the subway, there's currently no way for any Xen creatures to migrate into the city from the subway, unless they learn how to climb walls and ladders. In that conclusion, Combine has zero reason to risk their units down there, unless it is in a very important mission. (Most logical to me and my experience with civil protection.) The increase of headcrabs should be very mild. Majority of headcrabs would already have found their hosts before the invasion was completed, it however adds the extra risk, if a person is not wearing any head protection.


5. Implement hygienic and illness statuses.
Hygiene and illness is especially important when it comes to RP. It differentiates the poor from the rich. The two different financial classes should have their differences, and they do through clothing, behavior and etc. This should be especially noticable, when it comes to subway dwellers. With hygiene not being present on the server, people would have no idea, that the person they stand next to, is riddled with toxic alien spores, smelling like who knows what, and constantly has breathing problems and coughs all over the place. It'll further push the poor to become outcasts, or to take precautions as to avoid the bad hygiene and illness. We have stat penalties due to the environmental exposure of the subway, so adding to the roleplay aspect would force dwellers to make further choices. People riddled with illness would either suffer the stat penalty and the status as an ill person, or head to the CMU and receive treatment. The same goes for hygiene. People who's clothes are filled with spore particles from the subway, would either have to clean them, get rid of them, or sleep knowing what they're wearing. Server-side sounds such as coughing, sneezes and heaving, will aid well in determining illness in another person, and will prompt people to make decisions according to a character's moral compass. Whether that be to stay away from that person or not.


As others have mentioned, some things, if not all, will have to be discussed. However, I believe that these five points, will not only decrease the amount of grindsetter, but also allow for a more consequent and challengefilled experience both in- and outside of roleplay.

While this was written with a relatively narrow perspective, due to the small amount of time that was spent writing, I hope this can still be expanded upon, and concepts be fitted and introduced on the server.



Thank you for reading. :)
 
Why, what and how?


Why?

First off, it is important for me to state the reasons, as to why I am making this suggestion in the first place. After spending hours of time inside the subway system, it has become clear just how rewarding the subway system is, compared to how little dangerous and penalizing it is. There is a good set of options, when it comes to traders. They are a craft-specialist's best friend, as they have absolutely everything a craftsman could desire. There are so many loot locations, and we even have some wooden containers among them.

It is funny to say this, but the barnacles, the rarely occuring xen creatures on two or more legs, as well as the "toxic" gas, are less of a threat to anti-citizens than a civil protection unit. Not to mention, the gas, is not life threatening at all. Yes, you get some stinky vision that lasts for however long, but with enough to do above, you will have no problem waiting it out. How about my character? Would she not stink and be riddled with sickness, since she spends more than half her day, without any protective equipment in an alien filled gas environment? It is not apparent, and one can subjectively decide, if they smell like fresh cut grass and red roses on a shiny day, after a trip in the subway.

We need to increase the danger, and the penalties that come with the subway system. It should not take mere minutes to speedrun an entire subway system, due to running not increasing the rate at which gas is inhaled, as well as the subway system having basically zero dangers. Sure, go through the system without a flashlight, and get caught by a barnacle, or get crabbed. However, that is the only thing you need for a trip throughout that system. A flashlight. You don't need a melee weapon, and sure as hell not a gun.


What?
What to do about it? There are a myriad of things which can be done about this. We already have some stat penalties in place, some coughs and etc., but when does that actually have an effect on you, and others' roleplay experience? When does it change the playstyle and risk-approaches to the system? How many mistakes are there really to be learnt from? The most obvious thing is to implement more factors/penalties. Things that will have an effect on how other characters perceive and interact with your character. I am sure, my character's morale would dive lower than the subway system, due to how disgusting her clothes would be, as well as the smell that would surround her. Her ability to be social comfortably, will decrease significantly. Planning will become more tedious, as one has to plan how long they would spend in the system, as well as what gear they are willing to risk, to increase their chances of survival. Bringing medical items and at least a melee weapon, should be the minimum. The most important thing isn't to make the deal with the trader, or find a few bags of metal scraps, for damned be the loot, if you can't get out with it alive in the first place.

How?
So, how do we increase the dangers and penalties of the subway? I would like to propose a few concepts.

1. Increase the rate, at which toxic gas is inhaled, depending on movement behavior throughout the subway system.
Activities, such as running and jumping, should increase the rate at which gas is inhaled. This will prevent people from speedrunning the subway system, and be mindful about their movement. Jumping over multiple obstacles is a tedious task, and should also increase the rate at which gas is inhaled.
Running is another matter. When you decide to run, is up to you and the danger of the situation you're in. If you're not careful, the amount of running you'll have to do will increase significantly. Spending too much time in the subway system and lacking normal oxygen, will force you to use the remaining time you have left, running out of the system, due to the risk of dying. Attracting the attention of dangerous creatures, will force you to either run away or fight. There's a risk to both choices, as you either limit the amount of time you can stay in there, or risk becoming injured by the creature, possibly dying depending on preparedness and luck.


2. Raise the short-term damage from toxic gas inhalation.
Currently, we have some stat penalties, which last until you are cleansed from the gas. Your vision is also affected, and to a good degree. However, I believe there is not enough consequence to the stat penalties. Instead of a level based penalty, it should be percentage of level based. I will refer to that as well in the next point. The reason for it to be percentage based, is due to the agility level cap. You can achieve level 50, and run faster than someone who's half your level, while still suffering from weeks of toxic gas inhalation, due to the penalty being nothing more than 10 levels. I propose a penalty ranging between 1-20% for agility, strength and perception, and a 1-10% penalty for any crafting related stats.


3. Implement long-term damage from toxic gas inhalation.
It is important to have long-term consequences for a lack of preparation. Even people who are well-prepared will suffer consequences depending on their preparedness. Unless you have a type 2 chem suit or alike, you will not negate 100% of the toxic environment. It is for that reason, the total amount of time you decide to spend in the subway, should have a severe consequence. It would be ideal for the long-term damage to last for either weeks or months, if not permanent. The penalties should be very subtle compared to the short-term, but amount to a relatively high stat penalty, level percentage based, if not one or more chronic illnesses.


4. Increase the presence of Xen spawns, not Combine.
What is fundamental to a Xen infested area, is the presence of Xen spawns. In Half Life: Alyx for example, Xen creatures are everywhere. The presence of Combine units depend on various events that may take place. The presence of zombies, while in very low amounts, would especially be present around the subway trains or in seating areas. To my experience navigating the subway, there's currently no way for any Xen creatures to migrate into the city from the subway, unless they learn how to climb walls and ladders. In that conclusion, Combine has zero reason to risk their units down there, unless it is in a very important mission. (Most logical to me and my experience with civil protection.) The increase of headcrabs should be very mild. Majority of headcrabs would already have found their hosts before the invasion was completed, it however adds the extra risk, if a person is not wearing any head protection.


5. Implement hygienic and illness statuses.
Hygiene and illness is especially important when it comes to RP. It differentiates the poor from the rich. The two different financial classes should have their differences, and they do through clothing, behavior and etc. This should be especially noticable, when it comes to subway dwellers. With hygiene not being present on the server, people would have no idea, that the person they stand next to, is riddled with toxic alien spores, smelling like who knows what, and constantly has breathing problems and coughs all over the place. It'll further push the poor to become outcasts, or to take precautions as to avoid the bad hygiene and illness. We have stat penalties due to the environmental exposure of the subway, so adding to the roleplay aspect would force dwellers to make further choices. People riddled with illness would either suffer the stat penalty and the status as an ill person, or head to the CMU and receive treatment. The same goes for hygiene. People who's clothes are filled with spore particles from the subway, would either have to clean them, get rid of them, or sleep knowing what they're wearing. Server-side sounds such as coughing, sneezes and heaving, will aid well in determining illness in another person, and will prompt people to make decisions according to a character's moral compass. Whether that be to stay away from that person or not.


As others have mentioned, some things, if not all, will have to be discussed. However, I believe that these five points, will not only decrease the amount of grindsetter, but also allow for a more consequent and challengefilled experience both in- and outside of roleplay.

While this was written with a relatively narrow perspective, due to the small amount of time that was spent writing, I hope this can still be expanded upon, and concepts be fitted and introduced on the server.



Thank you for reading. :)
While I believe most of these will take time to implement, It'd be great to decrease script hunting and put a wrench in the grinding mentality of players.
 
While I believe most of these will take time to implement, It'd be great to decrease script hunting and put a wrench in the grinding mentality of players.
But... but think about the sentimental value of the grind that all the players soaked up to the maximum throughout all these months!
 
Why, what and how?


Why?

First off, it is important for me to state the reasons, as to why I am making this suggestion in the first place. After spending hours of time inside the subway system, it has become clear just how rewarding the subway system is, compared to how little dangerous and penalizing it is. There is a good set of options, when it comes to traders. They are a craft-specialist's best friend, as they have absolutely everything a craftsman could desire. There are so many loot locations, and we even have some wooden containers among them.

It is funny to say this, but the barnacles, the rarely occuring xen creatures on two or more legs, as well as the "toxic" gas, are less of a threat to anti-citizens than a civil protection unit. Not to mention, the gas, is not life threatening at all. Yes, you get some stinky vision that lasts for however long, but with enough to do above, you will have no problem waiting it out. How about my character? Would she not stink and be riddled with sickness, since she spends more than half her day, without any protective equipment in an alien filled gas environment? It is not apparent, and one can subjectively decide, if they smell like fresh cut grass and red roses on a shiny day, after a trip in the subway.

We need to increase the danger, and the penalties that come with the subway system. It should not take mere minutes to speedrun an entire subway system, due to running not increasing the rate at which gas is inhaled, as well as the subway system having basically zero dangers. Sure, go through the system without a flashlight, and get caught by a barnacle, or get crabbed. However, that is the only thing you need for a trip throughout that system. A flashlight. You don't need a melee weapon, and sure as hell not a gun.


What?
What to do about it? There are a myriad of things which can be done about this. We already have some stat penalties in place, some coughs and etc., but when does that actually have an effect on you, and others' roleplay experience? When does it change the playstyle and risk-approaches to the system? How many mistakes are there really to be learnt from? The most obvious thing is to implement more factors/penalties. Things that will have an effect on how other characters perceive and interact with your character. I am sure, my character's morale would dive lower than the subway system, due to how disgusting her clothes would be, as well as the smell that would surround her. Her ability to be social comfortably, will decrease significantly. Planning will become more tedious, as one has to plan how long they would spend in the system, as well as what gear they are willing to risk, to increase their chances of survival. Bringing medical items and at least a melee weapon, should be the minimum. The most important thing isn't to make the deal with the trader, or find a few bags of metal scraps, for damned be the loot, if you can't get out with it alive in the first place.

How?
So, how do we increase the dangers and penalties of the subway? I would like to propose a few concepts.

1. Increase the rate, at which toxic gas is inhaled, depending on movement behavior throughout the subway system.
Activities, such as running and jumping, should increase the rate at which gas is inhaled. This will prevent people from speedrunning the subway system, and be mindful about their movement. Jumping over multiple obstacles is a tedious task, and should also increase the rate at which gas is inhaled.
Running is another matter. When you decide to run, is up to you and the danger of the situation you're in. If you're not careful, the amount of running you'll have to do will increase significantly. Spending too much time in the subway system and lacking normal oxygen, will force you to use the remaining time you have left, running out of the system, due to the risk of dying. Attracting the attention of dangerous creatures, will force you to either run away or fight. There's a risk to both choices, as you either limit the amount of time you can stay in there, or risk becoming injured by the creature, possibly dying depending on preparedness and luck.


2. Raise the short-term damage from toxic gas inhalation.
Currently, we have some stat penalties, which last until you are cleansed from the gas. Your vision is also affected, and to a good degree. However, I believe there is not enough consequence to the stat penalties. Instead of a level based penalty, it should be percentage of level based. I will refer to that as well in the next point. The reason for it to be percentage based, is due to the agility level cap. You can achieve level 50, and run faster than someone who's half your level, while still suffering from weeks of toxic gas inhalation, due to the penalty being nothing more than 10 levels. I propose a penalty ranging between 1-20% for agility, strength and perception, and a 1-10% penalty for any crafting related stats.


3. Implement long-term damage from toxic gas inhalation.
It is important to have long-term consequences for a lack of preparation. Even people who are well-prepared will suffer consequences depending on their preparedness. Unless you have a type 2 chem suit or alike, you will not negate 100% of the toxic environment. It is for that reason, the total amount of time you decide to spend in the subway, should have a severe consequence. It would be ideal for the long-term damage to last for either weeks or months, if not permanent. The penalties should be very subtle compared to the short-term, but amount to a relatively high stat penalty, level percentage based, if not one or more chronic illnesses.


4. Increase the presence of Xen spawns, not Combine.
What is fundamental to a Xen infested area, is the presence of Xen spawns. In Half Life: Alyx for example, Xen creatures are everywhere. The presence of Combine units depend on various events that may take place. The presence of zombies, while in very low amounts, would especially be present around the subway trains or in seating areas. To my experience navigating the subway, there's currently no way for any Xen creatures to migrate into the city from the subway, unless they learn how to climb walls and ladders. In that conclusion, Combine has zero reason to risk their units down there, unless it is in a very important mission. (Most logical to me and my experience with civil protection.) The increase of headcrabs should be very mild. Majority of headcrabs would already have found their hosts before the invasion was completed, it however adds the extra risk, if a person is not wearing any head protection.


5. Implement hygienic and illness statuses.
Hygiene and illness is especially important when it comes to RP. It differentiates the poor from the rich. The two different financial classes should have their differences, and they do through clothing, behavior and etc. This should be especially noticable, when it comes to subway dwellers. With hygiene not being present on the server, people would have no idea, that the person they stand next to, is riddled with toxic alien spores, smelling like who knows what, and constantly has breathing problems and coughs all over the place. It'll further push the poor to become outcasts, or to take precautions as to avoid the bad hygiene and illness. We have stat penalties due to the environmental exposure of the subway, so adding to the roleplay aspect would force dwellers to make further choices. People riddled with illness would either suffer the stat penalty and the status as an ill person, or head to the CMU and receive treatment. The same goes for hygiene. People who's clothes are filled with spore particles from the subway, would either have to clean them, get rid of them, or sleep knowing what they're wearing. Server-side sounds such as coughing, sneezes and heaving, will aid well in determining illness in another person, and will prompt people to make decisions according to a character's moral compass. Whether that be to stay away from that person or not.


As others have mentioned, some things, if not all, will have to be discussed. However, I believe that these five points, will not only decrease the amount of grindsetter, but also allow for a more consequent and challengefilled experience both in- and outside of roleplay.

While this was written with a relatively narrow perspective, due to the small amount of time that was spent writing, I hope this can still be expanded upon, and concepts be fitted and introduced on the server.



Thank you for reading. :)
I disagree, I won't elaborate
 
Hell no. The sewers are already hard as it is, and the stat debuffs you get from the spores are very high, and it takes hours for the spore sickness to go away already.
 
Hell no. The sewers are already hard as it is, and the stat debuffs you get from the spores are very high, and it takes hours for the spore sickness to go away already.
It only takes hours to go away if you’ve spent way too long in the sewers.

It scales with time. The longer you spend, the longer you’ll have to waif. Spend 5 minutes in the sewers? Your spore bar is gone again almost instantly. Spend hours? You can wait days for it to go back to 0.
 
Hell no. The sewers are already hard as it is, and the stat debuffs you get from the spores are very high, and it takes hours for the spore sickness to go away already.
And you stand there, stuck with penalties that have absolutely zero truly meaningful effects on your playstyle, or your roleplay for that sake. Yes, the current penalties may be "hard", but they have zero meaning for anything else on the server. If you're a grindsetter who doesn't like to RP, you can achieve as much as everyone else in terms of gear, by spending hours speedrunning loot locations and traders. I did it, and it showed me why a thread like this had to be made. The subway system does not contribute to the roleplay as much as it potentionally can, and doing things this way will mix the subway and RP, and force people to receive CMU treatment for Xen spore illness for example.
 
And you stand there, stuck with penalties that have absolutely zero truly meaningful effects on your playstyle, or your roleplay for that sake. Yes, the current penalties may be "hard", but they have zero meaning for anything else on the server. If you're a grindsetter who doesn't like to RP, you can achieve as much as everyone else in terms of gear, by spending hours speedrunning loot locations and traders. I did it, and it showed me why a thread like this had to be made. The subway system does not contribute to the roleplay as much as it potentionally can, and doing things this way will mix the subway and RP, and force people to receive CMU treatment for Xen spore illness for example.

While I do agree the grind mentality is the main factor behind the whining vs your ideas (IZ really has zero threat beyond an OOC time counter) and I like a lot of your suggestions (diseases, etc.) I'm personally inclined to say that the current spore system is tremendously uninspired boring bullshit. I don't like "timer roleplay". Any "time limitations", unless for 'events' or activities that are meant to not last a long time, in a schema that demands you take your time, is so anti-RP it is unreal.

If we want the IZ to feel dangerous, we should have the CT and similar fill it with actual threat like you said, not just four barnacles in the most uninspired spots on the derelict tracks (always coincidentally the same). Not an automated counter on the screen that increases so Mr. Grind goes 'waaah, I can't craft my grenades by putting together two coloured cans just as easily'.

The idea of CMU is great but CMU is extremely unreliable... As someone who works closely with them, trust me. I get why the spores are there, as it stands I wouldn't really trust a lot of the grinders (majority of players) without them. But 'threat' doesn't feel real. I don't mean combine factions being 'threats', I mean... It's actually riskier to just live in the city because an NPC is never going to permanently kill you. If it's not controlled by CT or admins, its pathing down there is 95% broken and everyone knows how to exploit TBC. If it is controlled by someone, they will feel 'bad' about it.

I'd find it so much cooler if most of the sewers worked like a 'loot area' that was only accessable at certain times of the day instead, due to these 'spores'. Kind of like a dungeon or daily raid. Somewhere you'd willingly enter only knowing the risks, therefore being able to elevate the threat within it to match the rewards (perhaps elevate the rewards as well?). That way it'd also force most players to the surface or nearby immediations and interact with more people than just themselves. As you well said, it's so easy to stay down there nowadays, that when the server is around 35 players, around 26-27 are citizens, and around 15-18 of those are just permanently underground. City RP is dead because none of them ever have an impact to the city - and I'm counting the slums, in this.

The sewers are like 60% of the map and are the main reason half of the people spend their time in unreachable metabases and kill roleplay topside (main contributor to splitting players).

Obviously, if this was the case, combine factions should also ease up on things like the slums a bit to not kill the roleplay (even if I believe covertness should be a mandatory requirement for being a rebel... seems like a lot of them like playing ArmA instead). But I'd consider it a much better change than just allowing Johnny and his buddies to stay in an otherwise supposedly incredibly hostile and dark environment having drinks and shit.
 
Let me uh.... Put this simply for all of you. As i've had this discussion earlier this year and last year as well. The spore system is fine as it is. It's been tuned for the server as it should. However the biggest issue with this whole thing is. The server is labled RPG for a reason. The crafting system is a HUGE base of how everything works in this, making it less accessible to people who slum characters is quite literally the stupidest idea ever. (No offense by the way) But my whole problem is, the spore system is already crippling for early game players, making it more harsh for people who just wanna get into it. Or god forbid, new players to the server. Makes it impossible to keep players. We already have super low population as it is compared to earlier in the year where we were maxing out the server after the map change. It's declined majorly over the months. Due to boredom and really people getting fed up with the changes.

I will take a moment though to explain. That we do need more incentive to do things. Sure we could easily do a lot with the spore system, its a great idea. But we cannot make it harder for new players/characters to get started. As it sits, until city rp is fixed (stores become active again) there's just no point in doing this. Maybe down the line we could look into this as it'd probably help alot, but the biggest hinderance of this is the danger to new players and new characters trying to get started in the actual RPG system we have in place.
 
While I do agree the grind mentality is the main factor behind the whining vs your ideas (IZ really has zero threat beyond an OOC time counter) and I like a lot of your suggestions (diseases, etc.) I'm personally inclined to say that the current spore system is tremendously uninspired boring bullshit. I don't like "timer roleplay". Any "time limitations", unless for 'events' or activities that are meant to not last a long time, in a schema that demands you take your time, is so anti-RP it is unreal.

If we want the IZ to feel dangerous, we should have the CT and similar fill it with actual threat like you said, not just four barnacles in the most uninspired spots on the derelict tracks (always coincidentally the same). Not an automated counter on the screen that increases so Mr. Grind goes 'waaah, I can't craft my grenades by putting together two coloured cans just as easily'.

The idea of CMU is great but CMU is extremely unreliable... As someone who works closely with them, trust me. I get why the spores are there, as it stands I wouldn't really trust a lot of the grinders (majority of players) without them. But 'threat' doesn't feel real. I don't mean combine factions being 'threats', I mean... It's actually riskier to just live in the city because an NPC is never going to permanently kill you. If it's not controlled by CT or admins, its pathing down there is 95% broken and everyone knows how to exploit TBC. If it is controlled by someone, they will feel 'bad' about it.

I'd find it so much cooler if most of the sewers worked like a 'loot area' that was only accessable at certain times of the day instead, due to these 'spores'. Kind of like a dungeon or daily raid. Somewhere you'd willingly enter only knowing the risks, therefore being able to elevate the threat within it to match the rewards (perhaps elevate the rewards as well?). That way it'd also force most players to the surface or nearby immediations and interact with more people than just themselves. As you well said, it's so easy to stay down there nowadays, that when the server is around 35 players, around 26-27 are citizens, and around 15-18 of those are just permanently underground. City RP is dead because none of them ever have an impact to the city - and I'm counting the slums, in this.

The sewers are like 60% of the map and are the main reason half of the people spend their time in unreachable metabases and kill roleplay topside (main contributor to splitting players).

Obviously, if this was the case, combine factions should also ease up on things like the slums a bit to not kill the roleplay (even if I believe covertness should be a mandatory requirement for being a rebel... seems like a lot of them like playing ArmA instead). But I'd consider it a much better change than just allowing Johnny and his buddies to stay in an otherwise supposedly incredibly hostile and dark environment having drinks and shit.
I like the dungeon idea. However the idea was brought forward to make the sewers bigger in favor of rebels which... Due to poor decisions, left a lot of rebels after the triumph take over back in v3 to quit the server and never come back, our best admin rebel of all actually Booile who i still sadly miss as he was AMAZING at what he did, he managed to plan out and unify EVERY group to give the combine a run for their money. All through IC means, as I was part of this every step of the way. But.. Those times are gone and I'm trying to still pick up the pieces and solve issues left behind by the massive void of several well armed and experienced groups leaving the server in droves. All to be left to these random gangs and whitelist factions.
 
Let me uh.... Put this simply for all of you. As i've had this discussion earlier this year and last year as well. The spore system is fine as it is. It's been tuned for the server as it should. However the biggest issue with this whole thing is. The server is labled RPG for a reason. The crafting system is a HUGE base of how everything works in this, making it less accessible to people who slum characters is quite literally the stupidest idea ever. (No offense by the way) But my whole problem is, the spore system is already crippling for early game players, making it more harsh for people who just wanna get into it. Or god forbid, new players to the server. Makes it impossible to keep players. We already have super low population as it is compared to earlier in the year where we were maxing out the server after the map change. It's declined majorly over the months. Due to boredom and really people getting fed up with the changes.

I will take a moment though to explain. That we do need more incentive to do things. Sure we could easily do a lot with the spore system, its a great idea. But we cannot make it harder for new players/characters to get started. As it sits, until city rp is fixed (stores become active again) there's just no point in doing this. Maybe down the line we could look into this as it'd probably help alot, but the biggest hinderance of this is the danger to new players and new characters trying to get started in the actual RPG system we have in place.

You're right in the fact it gatekeeps the new more than the old, this is also a major problem. It should have higher risk the more you try to be there, veterans should have it harsher. Not the newbies.

I get what you mean about the server being 'RPG', and while it is down to personal choice, I, myself, do not like this mechanic. I think the Creative Team should reward you with more creative stuff (it's in the name), loot drops, and stuff, like the dungeon idea I mentioned. It would also be so much more fun for you guys, than holding E at some random corners until RNG dictates you get what you need...

Besides, if you put in the effort to do this, you can also control the economy. Ensure noone is too overgeared, or undergeared - since you keep track of what is being given, and to who. But of course, that takes someone actually willing to do this.

I agree, City RP needs a lot of work. But I think an important first step is concentrating more players in legal areas. Slums are technically 'legal', too. No point in opening up a store if there's 3 people in the area and 2 of them broke.
 
You're right in the fact it gatekeeps the new more than the old, this is also a major problem. It should have higher risk the more you try to be there, veterans should have it harsher. Not the newbies.

I get what you mean about the server being 'RPG', and while it is down to personal choice, I, myself, do not like this mechanic. I think the Creative Team should reward you with more creative stuff (it's in the name), loot drops, and stuff, like the dungeon idea I mentioned. It would also be so much more fun for you guys, than holding E at some random corners until RNG dictates you get what you need...

Besides, if you put in the effort to do this, you can also control the economy. Ensure noone is too overgeared, or undergeared - since you keep track of what is being given, and to who. But of course, that takes someone actually willing to do this.

I agree, City RP needs a lot of work. But I think an important first step is concentrating more players in legal areas. Slums are technically 'legal', too. No point in opening up a store if there's 3 people in the area and 2 of them broke.
This is true, All of it, i am in agreement. But my main issue with the slums being a 'legal' area is the fact the CP's use it as a punching bag (the entire faction that is) Because rebels who used to actually retaliate against CP's doing this shit, don't play anymore. I used to take part in this and I still play but I rarely play my rebel because of how shit's turned out, I need a new group now due to my old group going completely inactive. But thats beside the point. I am still doing my best to work through diplomacy and plan out things. But either way. The whole of the slums is not a 'legal' area per say. But it is a significant portion of the map that needs to be focused on. This however does fall a lot under the whole IC management of things, rebels need to pick up slack in the slums before anything OOC can be done. Due to ya know... It being this way because nobody wants to fix it.

Inaction breeds lazyness and the slums are lazy.
 
This is true, All of it, i am in agreement. But my main issue with the slums being a 'legal' area is the fact the CP's use it as a punching bag (the entire faction that is) Because rebels who used to actually retaliate against CP's doing this shit, don't play anymore. I used to take part in this and I still play but I rarely play my rebel because of how shit's turned out, I need a new group now due to my old group going completely inactive. But thats beside the point. I am still doing my best to work through diplomacy and plan out things. But either way. The whole of the slums is not a 'legal' area per say. But it is a significant portion of the map that needs to be focused on. This however does fall a lot under the whole IC management of things, rebels need to pick up slack in the slums before anything OOC can be done. Due to ya know... It being this way because nobody wants to fix it.

Inaction breeds lazyness and the slums are lazy.

I'm inclined to agree with what my fellow fox says.

That added, if changes are made, again, I would be the first to suggest CP reworks to give more breathing space (initially, until something happens). As it stands right now, even if people don't believe it, every CP has had their heads hammered with the fact they shouldn't fuck over other people's RP for personal progress. I'm aware there exist certain outliers (some of which also have rebels who equally shotcop, so I guess it's not faction related...) but I'd argue it's the truth for most. People seem to think injury or death is development, it's not. Those two close out stories. No use in closing a book half way...

Despite our efforts to ease off of the rebels's neck, resistance still complain it is 'too hard' - but as you say I don't see them doing absolutely anything, ever. I trust Travis as FL for the rebels and he is a very good player, but I think I can safely say his goons don't really do anything (I was told they were meant to receive orders/missions, and never did (from 'central command' - AKA not the FL). Maybe the inactivity is also a CT/admin problem... Doesn't justify the passivity from the rest of non-WL groups). To add I still think we need to weed out the CP outliers who think they're hot shit for just having a high tally of PKs, it is cringe. When their main area of conversation IC and OOC is 'how many people they killed', whichever the faction, you know it is doomed.
 
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Let me uh.... Put this simply for all of you. As i've had this discussion earlier this year and last year as well. The spore system is fine as it is. It's been tuned for the server as it should. However the biggest issue with this whole thing is. The server is labled RPG for a reason. The crafting system is a HUGE base of how everything works in this, making it less accessible to people who slum characters is quite literally the stupidest idea ever. (No offense by the way) But my whole problem is, the spore system is already crippling for early game players, making it more harsh for people who just wanna get into it. Or god forbid, new players to the server. Makes it impossible to keep players. We already have super low population as it is compared to earlier in the year where we were maxing out the server after the map change. It's declined majorly over the months. Due to boredom and really people getting fed up with the changes.

I will take a moment though to explain. That we do need more incentive to do things. Sure we could easily do a lot with the spore system, its a great idea. But we cannot make it harder for new players/characters to get started. As it sits, until city rp is fixed (stores become active again) there's just no point in doing this. Maybe down the line we could look into this as it'd probably help alot, but the biggest hinderance of this is the danger to new players and new characters trying to get started in the actual RPG system we have in place.
Indeed it won't aid much in making it less accessible. That's why I propose for the subway to become more dangerous, and have people be more mindful and smart about their presence in the subway. Escape from Tarkov is a very good example. You plan accordingly and include gear in your inventory that you'll need for your trip. A trip to arrange a deal with a trader, depending on the deal, you'll risk your hard-earned chips or handcrafted items, before you even get to the trader. You need protection. A melee weapon and/or a gun, depending on how dangerous the subway is. You can only spend so much time down there, without suffering the full truck of consequences that could follow, so you won't need much food and water. You need to make it out alive as well, so having padded clothes, a helmet, will yield greatly against Xen creatures, notably headcrabs and zombies. Using decoy items, such as a piece of scrap, to temporarily distract a barnacle, would also be essential. The subway is unpredictable, and the slash of a zombie, should your padded clothing not be enough, will result in an injury. You'll need to include medical items for your journey as well.

Like I said, making subway journeys more dangerous, will have people become mindful and wary, thus lessening the amount of trips people would risk.
 
In the S.S system, I think that NPC should be added more frequently. After all, That place is filled with spores and is supposed to be scary. When I am walkin' down there. I am just disappointed that there is nothing to it but only to get some spores and scripts and Barnacles just bein' the usual enemy.

Perhaps more events or things involving the S.S storm and the slums would be more fittin' like I remember an admin used to place a hive down there, and some monster would be around that area. That was amazing and actually made me the question should I run or call for some folks to help me clear it?

Think the spore effect should be kept I think it's already balanced no need just to make it to the extreme. I just think that adding NPC or events would suit it better. After all, This place feels like a graveyard.
 
In the S.S system, I think that NPC should be added more frequently. After all, That place is filled with spores and is supposed to be scary. When I am walkin' down there. I am just disappointed that there is nothing to it but only to get some spores and scripts and Barnacles just bein' the usual enemy.

Perhaps more events or things involving the S.S storm and the slums would be more fittin' like I remember an admin used to place a hive down there, and some monster would be around that area. That was amazing and actually made me the question should I run or call for some folks to help me clear it?

Think the spore effect should be kept I think it's already balanced no need just to make it to the extreme. I just think that adding NPC or events would suit it better. After all, This place feels like a graveyard.
See https://willard.network/forums/thre...th-can-we-exclude-certain-npcs-from-tbc.7627/

NPC's are very easy to kill and staff have to place them manually, so it's kinda hard to present an actual threat in the Underground
 
I will now post something that does not contribute to the discussion in any meaningful way.

It is not apparent, and one can subjectively decide, if they smell like fresh cut grass and red roses on a shiny day, after a trip in the subway.
Actual picture of @Rabithunter 5 minutes after leaving the sewers:

1665775614168.png
 
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