Johnathan Hyde NLR No Refund appeal.

[Gutsy]

Steam Name: Gutsy
Discord Name: Gutsy
Character that was NLR No Refunded: Johnathan Hyde
When were you killed (date, time, timezone): 0735 +13 GMT 09/25/2023
Who/what were you killed by (use forum tags if possible):

I was killed by a grenade that was airbursted ontop of a roof, I went down into bleedout and then instead of letting my allies save me the admin slayed me. I went from full health full armor to dead in one airburst greande.

Why/how were you killed, and why should the PK be overturned:

I was killed by a grenade that was AIrbursted ontop of a roof. I went down into bleedout and instead of letting my numerous allies in the area save me I was slayed because "There was no way they could save you." I was at full health full armor beforehand and got one shot.

NOTE We were onto of a roof out of direct fire and no other damage had been sent our way. Just the airburst of a grenade.

I believe this was done in bad faith, as we brought many medical supplies including surgical kits and other advanced medical supplies into the expedition to help alleviate harsh injuries.

Even the other staff were unsure about it being a ruling in this case.

Recordings, screenshots, console logs, other evidence:
You hit your target at 20 meters in the chest, dealing 14 damage.
You hit your target at 20 meters in the head, dealing 12 damage.
Tiny yells "CP's!"
[1-8 QT14] [A man wearing an old military cap, da...]: "Bunker!"
[1-8 QT14] [A man wearing an old military cap, da...]: "They are inside!"
You critically hit your target at 20 meters in the left arm, dealing 6 damage.
You critically hit your target at 20 meters in the left arm, dealing 6 damage.
[LOOC] 'Jesus': nlr
[LOOC] Johnathan Hyde: Huh
*** Tiny starts to wrap the two men in bandages
You are not allowed to do this!
[PM] »'Jesus' (Dog): Wait did we get executed?
[This man is wearing a normal Industri...] says (to you) "Hey bro drop your items."
[This man is wearing a normal Industri...] says (to you) "NLR no refund."
[LOOC] Johnathan Hyde: Sweet did we get executed or did we just wipe?
[PM] 'Jesus' (Dog): no?
[PM] 'Jesus' (Dog): odd
Johnathan Hyde says ".// I was on the roof."
[LOOC] SACV: You died with a Grenade while a GM was overseeing you, you couldn't have been saved NLR no refund sadly
[PM] »'Jesus' (Dog): Yeah we were on the roof I went from full hp full armor to 0 from a nade then died
[LOOC] Johnathan Hyde: Ah all good
[LOOC] Eric Bayer: riperooni
'Jesus' says "Well."
[LOOC] Johnathan Hyde: Wait so bleedout does not happen to people when killed by nade?
'Jesus' says "Wait."
[This man is wearing a normal Industri...] says (to you) "Thank you both for Participating in the Event."
[A scarred Austrian donning a kevlar v...] says "Back to main..."
'Jesus' says "Does bleedout rules not apply?"
[This man is wearing a normal Industri...] says (to you) "Nope."
Johnathan Hyde says ".// I will fight that one."
booile has disconnected from the server.
Johnathan Hyde says ".// Bleedout should still apply."
Johnathan Hyde says ".// But later."
Johnathan Hyde says ".// You got an event to run."
Player booile has joined the game
'Jesus' says "Eh, you can regrind that, white doves. LOL."
Johnathan Hyde says ".// Im respectful of that."
[This man is wearing a normal Industri...] says (to you) "Bleedout rules don't apply if a GM says that you couldn't have been saved. Sadly this was the case."
Johnathan Hyde says ".// Cant regrind it."
[ADMIN] to anyone who has died, do not disconnect just yet
Johnathan Hyde says ".// What do you mean I couldnt be saved? I got 1 shot by a grenade."
Johnathan Hyde says ".// Literally by the servers own rules you shouldnt be one shot by anything."
[A scarred Austrian donning a kevlar v...] says "// True but we can always argue later ig."
[A scarred Austrian donning a kevlar v...] says "// no point rn."
'Jesus' says "Uhm,."
Johnathan Hyde says ".// Yeap."
[A scarred Austrian donning a kevlar v...] says "// was fun."
'Jesus' says "You can appeal, if ya want."
[This man is wearing a normal Industri...] says "Thank you both for playing!"
[A scarred Austrian donning a kevlar v...] says "Was quite a fun event."
Johnathan Hyde says ".// Ill post my appeal but keep doing your thing."
[This man is wearing a normal Industri...] says "Need to go sorry."
Johnathan Hyde says ".// Dont want to stop it."
[A scarred Austrian donning a kevlar v...] says "Fog was a bit fucky but it looked cool."
booile has connected to the server.
[A scarred Austrian donning a kevlar v...] says "Np."
'Jesus' says "SEX!"
'Jesus' says "WHITE DOVE SEX."
[A scarred Austrian donning a kevlar v...] says "I was just wondering if that was dog."
[LOOC] Johnathan Hyde: That was not covered in the briefing that if you were killed by a nade
[A scarred Austrian donning a kevlar v...] says "Now i know."
[LOOC] Eric Bayer: true
[ADMIN] NLR no refund for those who Died in the expedition
[LOOC] Eric Bayer: I think it's a weird thing to waive but oh well
[A Person with a dirty cloths and a di...] says in Russian "Припомнить платить мозг пускай торжественно'."
[A scarred Austrian donning a kevlar v...] says "LOOOOOOOOL."
[LOOC] Scav: you guys can leave
[LOOC] Johnathan Hyde: Where would I appeal it on the forums Kap? Yeah we know
[LOOC] Eric Bayer: epic...
[LOOC] Scav: ok boolie
[LOOC] C24:i3.XRAY-76: hi
[LOOC] Scav: you gotta drop ur stuff
[LOOC] Eric Bayer: hello
[LOOC] C24:i3.XRAY-76: pk me, i died
Greece#1 has disconnected from the server.
[LOOC] Scav: the expo is nlr no refund
Player Greece#1 has joined the game
[LOOC] Scav: you want a pk?
[LOOC] C24:i3.XRAY-76: yeah but im taking a voluntary pk
[Man in metrocop uniform] says ".// brah."
[This man is wearing a normal Industri...] says "You both with me."
[LOOC] C24:i3.XRAY-76: it was fun everyone
[This man is wearing a normal Industri...] says "You want a PK?"
[Man in metrocop uniform] says ".// ??? No."
[A scarred Austrian donning a kevlar v...] says "U dont look very much like a man in a metrocop uniform."
[Man in metrocop uniform] says "They robbed me like a dog."
[This man is wearing a normal Industri...] says "You suire?"
[A scarred Austrian donning a kevlar v...] says "Left naked."
[This man is wearing a normal Industri...] says "Sure*."
[Man in metrocop uniform] says "Yeah!"
[Man in metrocop uniform] says "Did you guys die lmao."
[LOOC] C24:i3.XRAY-76: im sure, i died fair and square
[A scarred Austrian donning a kevlar v...] says "Yeah!"
[Man in metrocop uniform] says "Brh."
[Man in metrocop uniform] says "Who to?"
[A Person with a dirty cloths and a di...] says in Russian "Платить скопление поделиться пятнадцать."
[LOOC] Scav: oops
[LOOC] Scav: did you guys drop all ur stuff?
[Man in metrocop uniform] says ".// i got looted like a pinnata."
[Man in metrocop uniform] says ".// got 0 on me."
[A Person with a dirty cloths and a di...] says "If thats the case you guys can leave."
[A scarred Austrian donning a kevlar v...] says "See u on main... Nerds..."
[Man in metrocop uniform] says ".// let me go back in a tank bro.."
[A Person with a dirty cloths and a di...] says "Ask cengiz."
[A Person with a dirty cloths and a di...] says "You guys can go."
[Man in metrocop uniform] says "// ask cengiz for m."


Names of witnesses which may be able to support your appeal (use forum tags if possible):

@Dog @Emi @Kappatalist

I am sorry I am unable to get a screenshot of my inventory as it was yoinked out as soon as I was slayed.

 

[Cengiz]

I will respond to this PK Appeal shortly, i was once of the acting GM's and Event Lead

 

[Gutsy]

All good Cengiz. I know you got data to process and an event to run.
Sounds like the Cops got hit by the same thing as well,

I was unaware when signing up that "Bleedout" wasnt going to be a thing.

 

[Kappatalist]

I'm assuming if this was accepted I'd also be refunded, since I died in the same instance.

It's neither here nor there for me personally, but I did think it was a bit strange that bleedout rules would be waived in such a case.

 

[Gutsy]

I'm assuming if this was accepted I'd also be refunded, since I died in the same instance.

It's neither here nor there for me personally, but I did think it was a bit strange that bleedout rules would be waived in such a case.

Especially since we brought in the equipment to deal with serious and severe wounds, we came prepared. Which Kappatalist can attest to.
There was no stated change in game mechanics that would not allow for bleedout.

Also, this is the best screenshot I got of my loadout which I had pre-set up to go on the event.

 

[Cengiz]

Alright, here I go!

First of all, the Death happened during Expedition RUINS, which I was part of as an Acting Gamemaster. I will first explain the situation and what led to the Death. All Deaths were agreed to be NLR, with no refund.

1. During the Expedition, the Rebel group encounters Civil Protection, leading to a fight between the groups rather quickly. The Civil Protection players involved in the shot-out Equipedt & threw Grenades over the Wall to the Top Floor of the Building, where, sadly, our Rebels @Kappatalist and @Gutsy were standing and shooting from. The Grenade was perfectly thrown at the Duo, knocking them both out into a Bleedout. While other players were Nearby who could have probably saved you or could have used Medical Items to quickly recover your Body, did I, as the Acting Gamemaster, decide to Slay you then there. My Decision was based upon the Grenade that was really, really perfectly thrown at your feet. In such a case, a Recovery would be impossible.

No one was PKed in the Expedition, everyone who died was given NLR no refund

 

[Gutsy]

Alright, here I go!

First of all, the Death happened during Expedition RUINS, which I was part of as an Acting Gamemaster. I will first explain the situation and what led to the Death. All Deaths were agreed to be NLR, with no refund.

1. During the Expedition, the Rebel group encounters Civil Protection, leading to a fight between the groups rather quickly. The Civil Protection players involved in the shot-out Equipedt & threw Grenades over the Wall to the Top Floor of the Building, where, sadly, our Rebels @Kappatalist and @Gutsy were standing and shooting from. The Grenade was perfectly thrown at the Duo, knocking them both out into a Bleedout. While other players were Nearby who could have probably saved you or could have used Medical Items to quickly recover your Body, did I, as the Acting Gamemaster, decide to Slay you then there. My Decision was based upon the Grenade that was really, really perfectly thrown at your feet. In such a case, a Recovery would be impossible.

No one was PKed in the Expedition, everyone who died was given NLR no refund

It cant of been thrown perfectly at my feet, I was behind the Chimney and they were literally on the other side of the building. I was in cover. Could of exploded above me, but not at my feet and we were definatly not flanked. So I don't know where you got that "Perfectly" thrown grenade from there.

 

[Emi]

Adding my own piece, for what it's worth. I was nearby to Rook at the time of his death. Between Delo's character and my own we had >3 Surgical kits, blood stabilizers, a surplus of medical equipment like gauze, and other high-end drugs and medical equipment, to completely ignore what was possessed by other participants to the operation. Further I can confirm Gutsy possessed heavy armor and high-end medical items of their own, and we had in so far as i'm aware capable medical personnel in the area with us. If there was ever armor that could be worn, and medical equipment that could be possessed to justify his severely wounded survival, I would say it was present then and there.

As for bleed-out, as a participant in the event I was unaware that bleed-out would be waived at any point. Other characters in the event who were brought to bleed-out were brought back up by medical treatment and given the opportunity to detonate an explosive device against their opposition.

 

[Gutsy]

The equipment was also unable to be recovered by my own cell as my body was removed and my equipment deteled.



As seen here.
You can see that Tiny even RP'd starting to bandage us up but I mean -Shrug-

 

[Cengiz]

The equipment was also unable to be recovered by my own cell as my body was removed and my equipment deteled.

View attachment 26808

As seen here.
You can see that Tiny even RP'd starting to bandage us up but I mean -Shrug-

For the sake of Neutrality, will I move this Thread to the PK Appeal's. I believe that @Gr4Ss should decide about this

 

[Gutsy]

For the sake of Neutrality, will I move this Thread to the PK Appeal's. I believe that @Gr4Ss should decide about this

It was just moved out of PK appeals by Mint, into refund appeals. But yeah. Appreciate it, you're right it's not exactly a uhhh. Traditional and covered refund section.

 

[JustWats]

Adding my own piece, for what it's worth. I was nearby to Rook at the time of his death. Between Delo's character and my own we had >3 Surgical kits, blood stabilizers, a surplus of medical equipment like gauze, and other high-end drugs and medical equipment, to completely ignore what was possessed by other participants to the operation. Further I can confirm Gutsy possessed heavy armor and high-end medical items of their own, and we had in so far as i'm aware capable medical personnel in the area with us. If there was ever armor that could be worn, and medical equipment that could be possessed to justify his severely wounded survival, I would say it was present then and there.

As for bleed-out, as a participant in the event I was unaware that bleed-out would be waived at any point. Other characters in the event who were brought to bleed-out were brought back up by medical treatment and given the opportunity to detonate an explosive device against their opposition.

Ahhah, that’s a whole different situation, that well, was infuriating at the moment. I was the PC that was on the receiving end. We witnessed a CivPro get killed in S2K and without any other character interaction, they proceeded to martyrdom themselves after everyone on our side won. Even after I offered to release them.

While my group and I came to the event to P2L, I didn’t really feel the need to argue it then, nor would I like to either way. It just felt rushed and unrealistic. I think it would’ve been more interesting to have a unit live to tell the tale. But it’s true, I got jihaded without an opportunity for bleed out, while the cop that killed me self-recovered from bleed out.

As I understand, GMs can do what ever on the rules of an Event they produce. This is a deep dive on my last PK appeal as well.

 

[Astro]

While my group and I came to the event to P2L, I didn’t really feel the need to argue it then, nor would I like to either way. It just felt rushed and unrealistic. I think it would’ve been more interesting to have a unit live to tell the tale. But it’s true, I got jihaded without an opportunity for bleed out, while the cop that killed me self-recovered from bleed out.

Hi, that last part is complete misinformation. The unit died in that blast, just as you did. Though, no one was PK'd given the terms of the event, yourself included.

 

[JustWats]

Hi, that last part is complete misinformation. The unit died in that blast, just as you did. Though, no one was PK'd given the terms of the event, yourself included.

With all due respect, I usually don’t lie ever. I wouldn’t really like to be labeled like that. That is whatI gathered from my perspective.

I never claimed to be PKed, NLRs were written in the stipulations of the event, which was both dished out.

I walked up to the officer who was either fallen over, in bleed out, or got revived from an admin. If he was not, I would not have merely walked up and RPed when the fight was over. I would’ve just killed them continued to S2K.

What I am talking about, is that the unit was sprawled all over the floor, then got up and continued to RP. If it was something that feigned it like an action of faking death, then hats off to the unit. But I don’t think that’s what happened at all.

 

[JustWats]

Screenshot during the S2K fight, where the unit that NLRd me was downed.


Screenshot of the officer post down phase where they were Roleplaying afterwards.

Obviously, I don’t care about a refund, this isn’t my place nor do I particularly need it. But if this officer was allowed to recover, I don’t see why Gutsy shouldn’t have been able to.

 

[Gutsy]

I will say though that the argument for it went from "Theres no way you could be saved" to "I was rewarding hte CP for a good grenade throw." when I was surrounded by friendlies.

 

[Gr4Ss]

GMs make decisions and I have always stood by their decision.

I also don't see why this is made under PK appeals given this isn't a PK appeal nor are we debating something that is in the PK policy (the ability for GMs to slay is the general server ruleset). If you really wish to continue this, let me know and I'll move it to the complaints section. Otherwise this case is pretty much closed for me.

 

[Gutsy]

GMs make decisions and I have always stood by their decision.

I also don't see why this is made under PK appeals given this isn't a PK appeal nor are we debating something that is in the PK policy (the ability for GMs to slay is the general server ruleset). If you really wish to continue this, let me know and I'll move it to the complaints section. Otherwise this case is pretty much closed for me.

I'd appreciate it if you can move it back to the complaints section please Grass.

 

[Cengiz]

Following Items will be refunded : AK with the Suppressor and Hunter Optic, Heavy armor, 2 incendiaries, 1 frag.

 

[Kappatalist]

Following Items will be refunded : AK with the Suppressor and Hunter Optic, Heavy armor, 2 incendiaries, 1 frag.

What about myself?