Limit CP's ability to legally harass Loyalists

[RedHotGinger]

This suggestion comes off the back of one I made a long time ago in another post regarding the many faults and failings of the Loyalist System. One of the key faults was the fact that loyalists were highly susceptible to being abused by CP's, often for no reason.
Said suggestion:​

Full post here:​

My (Hot?) Take On Loyalists

TIME DR. FREEMAN? IS IT REALLY THAT TIME AGAIN? In true modern sequel fashion, I am just going to get right into and not bother with any setup or foundation laying for this newest ramble. THE CORE ISSUES WITH LOYALISM The biggest single issue that Willards concept of loyalism smacks headlong...

willard.network

So, here I am again, officially suggesting this be implemented.
I really believe we need to start moving away from the fact that CP's, regardless of rank or file, are treated as T7 citizens as soon as they hit RCT.

The Collaborator Protection Act of 2018

The Collaborator Protection Act of 2018 ⅠCCA MEMBERS Core members of the Combine Civil Authority such as Directors or Ministers may not be prosecuted without permission from one of the following. City Administrator Vice Administrator Overseer Ⅱ TIER-SIX COLLABORATORS Tier-Six Collaborators,...

docs.google.com

While some things such as the above exist IC, there is basically zero enforcement of any listed policies, or such policies are just entirely useless in practice. While Loyalism needs a huge bit of attention dedicated to itself overall, this is one little step towards making the common citizen experience more rewarding and engaging, both for those in the party, and those outside of it.

While I am sure some will simply rally behind the IC is IC defense, I don't think its fair to say the myriad of problems the loyalist experience in this server currently has should simply be ignored because its explainable in world. While this may not even be something to be implemented right now, as loyalists technically have no sway at all within the system, its something that should be discussed all the same if such were to change.

So, yeah. Deets are in the photo.​

 

[Wraygun]

I disagree. Everyone should get equally oppressed.

 

[M3ntal]

Fact of the matter is, if you're not in the CCA, or Civil Protection, you literally do not matter at all to the combine. As a loyalist, you hold no influence whatsoever. You only hold influence in positions of political power, and yet you are still as vulnerable as any other. With Civil Protection it's a bit more lax in terms of vulnerability but they can and usually do die pretty often on a daily basis when rebels are particularly active so in a general sense, CPs are as vulnerable as citizens but on a totally different scale, however that's not the point. Point is, if you have no direct use to the union, you're not gonna hold any influence.

 

[Deleted member 2717]

Can I ask when the last time a CP actually went out of their way to target high tier loyalists was?

 

[RedHotGinger]

Can I ask when the last time a CP actually went out of their way to target high tier loyalists was?

Few days ago.

Fact of the matter is, if you're not in the CCA, or Civil Protection

Civil Protection should not, and in practical terms, is not, on par with the CCA. This is one of the issues people have imo. They treat CP's like they are some black ops group of mega-men, when in reality they are just thugs with batons, trusted just enough to keep things in check.

Like the MAA, CP's are overhyped in terms of what importance they have.

 

[M3ntal]

Few days ago.



Civil Protection should not, and in practical terms, is not, on par with the CCA. This is one of the issues people have imo. They treat CP's like they are some black ops group of mega-men, when in reality they are just thugs with batons, trusted just enough to keep things in check.

Like the MAA, CP's are overhyped in terms of what importance they have.

Lore-wise in HL2 they are basically the baton for the Union itself over the existing population of the cities. CCA really shouldn't be given enough influence to have command over civil protection because that will facilitate *a certain kind* of roleplayer which I really would not want to see here.

 

[RedHotGinger]

CCA really shouldn't be given enough influence to have command over civil protection

Over Civil Protection as a whole? Fair enough, overseers and shit provide a little bit of interesting contention in an equal environment. Over units themselves, the rank and file and unremarkable 'batons' that are only as useful as the hands they swing them with? Well, less so.

As far as RP is concerned, its likely that if units could potentially see repercussions for acting like rabid dogs (at times), regardless of who is in front of them, we would see an improvement in CP RP quality.

 

[Deleted member 2717]

The main issue I see is that the "ranking" system proposed p much directly conflicts with the whole anonymity principle of the Civil Protection. The point is that you're not meant to know what rank the unit you're looking at is, and for the most part I think we achieve that well. Saying Tx's have specific influence over y rank would require that principle to be broken for it to be used effectively at all.

EDIT: Also, out of curiosity, what was the incident that happened a few days back?

 

[The_Grass_Man]

No man, this is the goofiest thing ever. Did you forget that a whole ass alien empire dominated the earth in seven hours and sees you as nothing but tools? Civil Protection is and should always be higher ranking than any citizen, no matter the rank they have since it really doesn't matter; In the end, you're kept alive to work, and if you stop working the combine sees you as nothing more but a nuisance.

 

[RedHotGinger]

The main issue I see is that the "ranking" system proposed p much directly conflicts with the whole anonymity principle of the Civil Protection.

That is fair, and tbh don't know if there is a good way around. The main thing with loyalism rn is that it really does desperately need some actual tangible benefits to becoming a loyalist. Not only for the sake of general city RP, which I think would be improved by having loyalists which could actually bump things about a bit (though note, I'm not saying we should go full democracy or something) but also just general reward for that *awful* grind, if you choose to look at it mechanically.

I mean, if the whole idea that most people have about loyalism is that even the highest loyalist is worth literal dirt, and being one simply does not matter, then what is the point of loyalism at all? Not saying its that bad but it is heavily flawed at this point, and some people speak about it in such a way.

Also, out of curiosity, what was the incident that happened a few days back?

TLDR:
Like eight CP's kicked open every CMU door, held my tier-6 char at gunpoint, spamming VC's and insults, dragging them through the streets, bragging about how they are going to torture and kill them, got hit, etc. (Also brought them to the wrong place ) (Also they weren't supposed to kill them, nor did they)
(Before some person tries to deploy a 'gotcha' this is not about upsetting me personally, I actually enjoyed the CCA's role in things. Its just not the first time I've seen it happen, heard it happen or had it happen. Its a general problem.)

 

[RedHotGinger]

In the end, you're kept alive to work, and if you stop working the combine sees you as nothing more but a nuisance.

If the people, even the highest most important elements who keep the society running, are worth nothing, why are CP's expected to be treated like some highly important entities.
Its just worth pointing out, anytime you are talking about humanity being worthless and useless in the eyes of the Combine there is always this weird asterisk put right over CP's, for no reason. Suddenly, humans have a use, but only if they are CP's.

 

[Deleted member 2717]

The main thing with loyalism rn is that it really does desperately need some actual tangible benefits to becoming a loyalist.

Yeah, you're absolutely right here. Holding some sway within the city should be accepted, but honestly, looking at it from a different angle, they kinda already do. Most high-tier loyalists hold sway in the civil unions they took part in, or own/run stores etc. The main issue isn't in their benefits, it's in the party itself, because right now it's dead as fuuuuuuck

EDIT: Also the whole "combine thinks ur worthless" thing doesn't actually matter, since the highest echelons of combinium empirical are so far removed from day-to-day life that their sway isn't affected. Really it should be put down to the CA and maybe SA about how much they care about loyalists

 

[The_Grass_Man]

If the people, even the highest most important elements who keep the society running, are worth nothing, why are CP's expected to be treated like some highly important entities.
Its just worth pointing out, anytime you are talking about humanity being worthless and useless in the eyes of the Combine there is always this weird asterisk put right over CP's, for no reason. Suddenly, humans have a use, but only if they are CP's.

I never put any asterisks above CPs, they're just slightly more important because they are provided with weaponry so they are treated better, and also because if you have no-one control the citizens they may start shit. Really basic knowledge bro, u ever played half life 2? lol

 

[RedHotGinger]

Most high-tier loyalists hold sway in the civil unions they took part in,

This is the loyalist oof though, more than anything.

Loyalists, do not hold power, they hold...roughly zero. Not quite zero, but nearly there. The only power a loyalist can have, is delivered via whatever occupation you hold.

for example, a Tier-4 in the Committee holds more power than a Tier-6. The tiers mean nothing as all power is derived from positions, rather than status. Like that Kevin guy a long time ago. He wasn't able to get away with that stuff cause he was a Tier-6, but because he was GCF, or whatever it was called. (which was a bit eh, so not advocating for that level of nonsense.)

 

[RedHotGinger]

they're just more important because they are provided with weaponry

Weapon scripts really should not influence importance. I'm assuming you meant that in an IC sense and worded it poorly, so I'll contend that with, yes, they are granted weapons. I don't advocate for average citizens being more important for them. I don't even advocate for loyalists being able to ignore or otherwise challenge them regarding legality. I challenge CP's being able to treat everyone like trash regardless of who they are. I challenge them having to feel the boot of the Combine on themselves, just a little bit. To force them to play a little bit of politics themselves and have to be at least a little careful of who they bully.

 

[NIXeighteen]

I believe this is all about a matter of quality roleplay. When you start as a recruit, you have the right to harass loyalists. Though, if you are a quality role-player, you must imagine yourself being scared to shit. Therefore you wouldn't dare to go on and harass people yet.
I believe that roleplaying in an oppressed dystopia needs harassing officers. Otherwise, we would just be a city roleplay without the HL2 aspect. Remember that being a loyalist doesn't put you above the CPs in Half-Life, and since this game mode is based on HL2, I believe that harassing that loyalist is included.
If you don't want to roleplay being oppressed and harassed by a force that took over the earth in seven hours, I believe you need to find another roleplay game mode to play.

 

[The_Grass_Man]

Weapon scripts really should not influence importance. I'm assuming you meant that in an IC sense and worded it poorly, so I'll contend that with, yes, they are granted weapons. I don't advocate for average citizens being more important for them. I don't even advocate for loyalists being able to ignore or otherwise challenge them regarding legality. I challenge CP's being able to treat everyone like trash regardless of who they are. I challenge them having to feel the boot of the Combine on themselves, just a little bit. To force them to play a little bit of politics themselves and have to be at least a little careful of who they bully.

They are forced to treat people like shit under their boots, if civil protection starts being friendly their relatives will be killed

 

[ShadoWiz4rd]

I disagree. Everyone should get equally oppressed.

View attachment 13243

But everyone isn't equally oppressed, I'd argue loyalist's probably get the short end of the stick more then bluesuits do.

 

[RedHotGinger]

Remember that being a loyalist doesn't put you above the CPs in Half-Life,

This is a weird point cause...I mean there are no loyalists in Half Life. None that we see anyway. HLA makes a passing mention at them, maybe, but we don't see anything of them all the same.

If you don't want to roleplay being oppressed and harassed by a force that took over the earth in seven hours, I believe you need to find another roleplay game mode to play.

Never said anything about not being oppressed in general, the post literally states that loyalists can't outright ignore CP's. CP's would also still be free to attempt to be cruel. The only difference is that there is more risk involved and that high-ranking civs can potentially have an out

harassed by a force that took over the earth in seven hours,

I dont think CP's did that.

EDIT: Probably also best to not jump to the 'Find somewhere else to play' line without careful consideration.

 

[Metrotider]

idk... you kinda do seem upset