Metagame.

[IZABAD]

I'm making this complaint in regards to the recent verbal warning I received on the main server a few days ago now on the 25th of this month issued by Salvador. I've been told that I received it for switching characters from my CP to my Civ when I was alerted that a raid on my store was going to happen.

According to the Guidelines & Rules, the current definition of Metagame is as follows:
"Metagaming is slightly harder to define. But overall it is using IC information taken via OOC means to take actions, get an advantage or generally learn knowledge your character shouldn't have. All your characters info must generally come from IC means. There are some exceptions to some factions when it comes to guides, updates and communication between members but overall your character should learn things via IC means."

So let's examine the thought process from staff that leads to my warning.
I learned about the raid from my CP ------> I character swapped = Metagame

Now let's look at how my actions developed.
A different CP (Dej) proposed the idea that a raid should be done ----> The CWU lead (Starless Horizon) said that a member of the store is needed to be on for a raid to be done-----> I PMed Dej saying I can get on my Citizen so they can do the raid ----> I character swapped

Now if we now refer back to the established definition of Metagame we can see the requirements that are needed are as follows.
Learning about an IC action (The store raid) ----> Using OOC means to learn about it (Character swapping) -----> Taking IC action (?????) = Metagame

If I were to be warned by staff, they would have to establish an IC action I would not take unless I knew of the store raid.

Some people don't understand that this is not just a warning for me with no consequences. It's a breach of trust to the current faction leads of overwatch that I would abuse my position. I switched characters only after talking with the other CPs in a PM about it and to further RP not abuse it. If I did not want to get on my civ then the raid could never happen due to the server rules about raiding requiring employees/members to be on for such a situation to occur.

There are more moving parts to the story than I have discussed above however, I believe I have highlighted the meat and potatoes of it and if someone feels the other factors are relevant then they are free to do so. I would also like to request that a full log of the events pertaining to the warning be posted.

 

[Bodger]

According to the Guidelines & Rules, the current definition of Metagame is as follows:
"Metagaming is slightly harder to define. But overall it is using IC information taken via OOC means to take actions, get an advantage or generally learn knowledge your character shouldn't have. All your characters info must generally come from IC means. There are some exceptions to some factions when it comes to guides, updates and communication between members but overall your character should learn things via IC means."

Note: You're vigilant of the rules. Important for later.

So let's examine the thought process from staff that leads to my warning.
I learned about the raid from my CP ------> I character swapped = Metagame

Now let's look at how my actions developed.
A different CP (Dej) proposed the idea that a raid should be done ----> The CWU lead (Starless Horizon) said that a member of the store is needed to be on for a raid to be done-----> I PMed Dej saying I can get on my Citizen so they can do the raid ----> I character swapped

Now if we now refer back to the established definition of Metagame we can see the requirements that are needed are as follows.
Learning about an IC action (The store raid) ----> Using OOC means to learn about it (Character swapping) -----> Taking IC action (?????) = Metagame

If I were to be warned by staff, they would have to establish an IC action I would not take unless I knew of the store raid.

Let's go through it from the admin side. From the logs, you were talking to an RL in PM's on your civ, talking about your shop, I don't have full logs but this could be apart of the meta. You switch to your CP, and for 10 minutes (9m10s to be exact) you do nothing, presumably observing radio comms before PM'ing VICTOR-1 that the raid can be done as you'll switch back to your civ. You switch back about 30 seconds later, throw some non illegal stuff in your stash, then check three different refrigerators, presumably in your store to make sure you have nothing illegal stored (Not on the server so I can't check locations rn) and it proceeds from there.

Some people don't understand that this is not just a warning for me with no consequences. It's a breach of trust to the current faction leads of overwatch that I would abuse my position. I switched characters only after talking with the other CPs in a PM about it and to further RP not abuse it. If I did not want to get on my civ then the raid could never happen due to the server rules about raiding requiring employees/members to be on for such a situation to occur.

There are more moving parts to the story than I have discussed above however, I believe I have highlighted the meat and potatoes of it and if someone feels the other factors are relevant then they are free to do so. I would also like to request that a full log of the events pertaining to the warning be posted.

As we can see from the first point, you love those rules and specific definitions of those rules. Well the rules do say you have to be online, but it's just that, online. No mention of being specifically on the correct character, for you or your employees, and so the raid/"heist" could have gone down without you being on your civ.

All in all, this isn't damming evidence that you metagame'd, buuut I'm not the main investigator on this, and so I just thought I'd bring up these points.

 

[NEYO]

Yo,

First of all the dishonesty in this complaint is abhorrent, you forgot to mention all the most important things.

Here's a timeline of events;

You were under investigation by the MOC and CWU for many reasons the only one I will mention is the abuse of permits, mass purchasing of two very particular items > Your store was inspected/searched, items you had bought were no where on the premises and you failed to provide a log of the items being sold > This lead to the freezing of one of your permits until a fine of 150 credits were paid to the CWU > You did not take well to this either IC or OOCly > This eventually lead to you reporting the current CWU director for "Corruption and extortion" to the CPs >The CPs went to go have a chat with the CWU director about his whole ordeal > You saw them making their way over there and switch to your cp > You walked in no less than 5-10 seconds after they walk into the office > You stand quietly in the corner listening to all the things they were talking about in regards to Lina's case > The mention of a possible raid come up > You asked if you should switch character >You switch character > You go to your store > you go through all your containers > then you semi-afk at your counter.

I had contemplated whether the warning was warranted or not considering you hadn't actaully moved anything but I think we can all agree from the logs provided that the intent was very very clear. The past history of metagame was also taken into consideration.

Some of your logs par the reporting to CPs.

 

[IZABAD]

I'm going to respond and reply in order of posts before I move on to the next one.

Let's go through it from the admin side. From the logs, you were talking to an RL in PM's on your civ, talking about your shop, I don't have full logs but this could be apart of the meta.

The case at hand currently has to do with my swapping of charectors, not me PMing the other RL (Wraygun). My DMing of him only pertained to the possibility that I believed there was a chance the situation I ICly reported to him might be voided. He got off after I made the IC report, I figured he was going to deal with this when he got on next time but it turned out that he left Dej in charge to handle it.

You switch to your CP, and for 10 minutes (9m10s to be exact) you do nothing, presumably observing radio comms before PM'ing VICTOR-1 that the raid can be done as you'll switch back to your civ.

After I saw Wraygun flagging off I figured I would get on my CP as running a store with your primary permit disabled when its dead hour would not lead to any reward other than boredom. I stood in the corner of the room of the CWU director's office as two CPs one of them Dej spoke to the CWU lead about my report from my civ. I stood silent not partaking in the conversation until Dej proposed a raid then proceeding to DM him and swap.

You switch back about 30 seconds later, throw some non illegal stuff in your stash, then check three different refrigerators, presumably in your store to make sure you have nothing illegal stored (Not on the server so I can't check locations rn) and it proceeds from there.

Yes, the first thing I did was go to my stash and organize my inventory to the state I almost always have it in. I then run to make sure I have all my containers unlocked not needing to punch a one-time password until the server restart. It can be quite time-consuming as the customer waiting for an order so I make sure I can do it as quickly as possible, I also went to see what leftover foodstuff I had from before my permit was disabled to see if I could make something to eat for my character along with what order I can or can't fulfill if they ask for food. I've never had anything illegal in my store before seeing how I have the largest rebel base currently on the server at my disposal, it would be rather silly of me to keep things above ground.

As we can see from the first point, you love those rules and specific definitions of those rules. Well the rules do say you have to be online, but it's just that, online. No mention of being specifically on the correct character, for you or your employees, and so the raid/"heist" could have gone down without you being on your civ.

You are right, I did not need to be on my Civ when the raid happens. For some time during beta, I think I was aware of this fact, but I completely forgot. Even with this in mind, by server rules, nothing was stopping me from changing characters.

 

[IZABAD]

Yo,

First of all the dishonesty in this complaint is abhorrent, you forgot to mention all the most important things.

You may believe that they are important, I do not. The current matter at hand is that of my warning, the warning to my understanding only consists of this reasoning.


It's the most up-to-date reasoning I have received from staff since the event of the warning. All other information is irrelevant to the matter, none the less I still asked for a full log to be posted. If you wish to place punishment on me for something else then I would advise you to do so and we can discuss it then.

You were under investigation by the MOC and CWU for many reasons the only one I will mention is the abuse of permits, mass purchasing of two very particular items > Your store was inspected/searched, items you had bought were no where on the premises and you failed to provide a log of the items being sold > This lead to the freezing of one of your permits until a fine of 150 credits were paid to the CWU > You did not take well to this either IC or OOCly

This is correct and I don't deny it, I also don't agree with certain decisions surrounding this that you may or may not know already including my own. My response to the matter was coordinated with the information I had at the time both ICly and OOCly but that's also not important to the matter. I don't see any rule break and I assume this is just for background information.

This eventually lead to you reporting the current CWU director for "Corruption and extortion" to the CPs >The CPs went to go have a chat with the CWU director about his whole ordeal > You saw them making their way over there and switch to your cp

The first statement is correct, however, the ones after did not go exactly as you described. The CPs did not go straight to the CWU director they took a moment or two to speak to one another about something I am unaware of. During this time I was aimlessly roaming from what I remember and PMing Wraygun that the report I made has the possibility to be voided, I'm sure logs can show my location, for some reason I remember being on Willard street. We both shitposted with a hint to prior events with CCA and he got off leaving Dej on. IDK what I did from then to the point I swapped but I didn't expect the two CPs to go speak to CWU without an RL or even if Wraygun stayed on I didn't think he was going to deal with this tonight seeing how high level the report concerns. I do remember logging in at CP-1 as my CP and hearing the CP beeps from when they talk coming from the CWU building as I walked past it.

You walked in no less than 5-10 seconds after they walk into the office > You stand quietly in the corner listening to all the things they were talking about in regards to Lina's case >

I don't think I walked in at the same time as them seeing how I remember them talking before I showed up and that's how I knew they were in the CWU warehouse to begin with from the CP bleeps from that.

The mention of a possible raid come up

I was actually going to mention the idea of the raid myself and I was typing out the PM to Dej before he came up with the idea and said it out loud before me.

You asked if you should switch character >You switch character > You go to your store > you go through all your containers > then you semi-afk at your counter.

This is the chain of events that directly leads to my warning, nothing here indicates abnormal behavior that I would not do normally as a store owner. Not to mention, if we were looking at the bigger picture from start to finish, making a report to CPs about the top CWU member being corrupt would most defiantly lead to an investigation on all involved parties.

I had contemplated whether the warning was warranted or not considering you hadn't actaully moved anything but I think we can all agree from the logs provided that the intent was very very clear. The past history of metagame was also taken into consideration.

I mean you admit it yourself that you had the thought of not warning me as you were not convinced fully and I don't know what the logs add that points to something out of the ordinary. Lastly, as far as I know, I have no past history with metagame.

 

[IZABAD]

I don't know what's going on with this thread but it's been open for more than ten days now. The provided logs quite clearly show that no Metagame was conducted and that Lina Roseevelt did not take an action she would normally not do otherwise.

 

[SteyrShotgun]

I don't know what happened here, but I will repeat as it appears my message may have not been sent properly due to some of the DDOS stuff we've been having over the week.

This complaint is closed.

We've readjusted the metagaming rules to clarify better in the future. No, this doesn't mean you can continue to argue on the previous ruleset as it's only clarification. The verbal you received is staying, and it will not be removed as per ruleset. While your actions may have not been deemed entirely metagaming, they were fishy enough to begin warrant of a multi-day investigation and the conclusion was that your behaviour was weird at best, and so the verbal warning is kept to let other administrators know about previous actions. You need to look at this from our perspective, instead of dedicating entire posts to picking apart every little detail when you're really saying very little. From the outside POV, you switched chars and searched containers immediately after hearing about a potential raid on your shop. Even if you didn't do anything, it warrants a discussion on it's own.

Alternatively, your behaviour since then has not improved. Up to and including being involved in another situation which was much of the same. I didn't know who you were at all during this specific situation, and so I acted personally as a third party when dealing with this case over the last week. What I found was that you had been involved in several other cases prior to this incident that brought up potential metagaming. Again, this does not look good on our end. What we're seeing is a trend, and not a positive one. For one reason or another, your previous warnings were removed. Whether you had them removed I am unaware, but this one stays this time.

We've clarified to you, multiple times, over multiple days what exactly you did in order to cause this situation. There are logs and screenshots in this thread that dictate specifically why you have been given a verbal warning for this kind of behaviour. This isn't even a written warning, and you're still looking to get it removed? Even after almost two weeks since the incident itself? Get over yourself, do something more productive.