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My (Hot?) Take on Willards Rebel Problems

imo

It seems like rebels are beefed up in game but on the flip side the Combine are beefed up in the lore and loremap.
 
With regards to the 'PK Policy', it is still very very dangerous

Can't type out a massive response as I'm on my phone, but what you essentially said is that its dangerous to be a rebel. It's dangerous to actively pursue conflict and liberation from the Combine.

My question is, considering our current PK policy is actually more an NLR policy at this point, how safe does actively choosing to be an insurgent have to be?
 
The 'Bottle Street Era' worked because of the grind, not in spite of it, which is something I don't think people have realised.

People had to focus on other avenues of roleplay while they gradually worked on getting better armed and better equipped. They needed to take those early days slow and carefully, and that by nature encouraged them to stay on the surface and work within the city given the supplies needed. It also helped that the majority of the roleplay and focus was on the city; it was a win-win.

But by reducing the time needed to get a gun and gear you are encouraging people to skip this part even further, not pushing them back towards it. If my options are to make a surface gang and pretend to take it slow or just speedrun to getting a gun and gear to join in, I'm probably going to go the latter route.

The systems were never designed to keep people on the surface, which I think was a mistake you can't fix now - the RebelRp population is too large of a percentage of the playerbase for that. Catering to them to this extent invariably traps you in a cycle, and the reason the fond times people remember from mid-late 2021 vanished was precisely because rebels could suddenly get all the gear they needed to where the city was just pointless.

Snitches are also a symptom, not the actual issue. If snitches vanished people would start pointing fingers at cops, or PK's, or anything else. No matter how much gear and NLR's you give rebels, they're generally risk-adverse as a whole.

With regards to snitching, I suppose it's just a risk that will always be there. Most of the time it can be avoided by just playing smart and not going around in full gear and *not* mass recruiting every Tom, Dick & Harry into your cell.

That being said, I have seen characters do a 180 for whatever reason. However in the more advanced cases were somone flips sides, whether it be because they were captured, or want to try and reverse a BOL, I think that is good rp. Unlike random snitches who just want shiny sc's. Perhaps say snitches don't get sc to filter out the wanna be loyalists going out purposefully to find somone to snitch on, and keep it reserved for the few cases where a character has a genuine ic motivation to feel the need to flip sides and snitch to perhaps preserve their own life.

I take the story of Goodfellas as a good example. "Henry Hill" type snitches are genuine ones with more than likely a very solid motivation to do so. And might not even *want* to but feel the need to.

Then you have the loyalist hall monitors who walk around looking for a pat on the head from the CP and some SC.
 
In my opinion, also as a non staff but as a rebel player during the Bottlestreet/Sunrise era...I can definitley say the "magic" is gone. While occasionly I do still see some great RP, it is mostly influenced or pushed by me as a BMD. Back in the bottlestreet era the rebels seemed like a mystery. If you wanted to join them, it was really-really hard to pinpoint who rebels were or where they were hiding. It's safe to say it took a lot of effort to track down a rebel group and then join one.

Now, they all hang out in the shelter/park in full gear talking ab their latest trash run and comparing the size of their dicks...*coughs* I mean guns. They seem to get the two confused though. And that is because the systems in place have bread that behavior. Anyway, here is how I think we could bring back some of that magic:


1) Remove the DoB. They fucking suck. Go back to the CWU system. They "suck" due to poor ooc/ic management, gatekeeping of which type of stores you can have, never being active and making the lack of stores worse by claiming some to be unusable. It honestly feels like that whatever store owner gets the DoB Director role just uses their poisition to create an monopoly and keep their store "the best" and making the most money. You can see this from O'Hairs & The Pint. (Gotfried Hansen & O'Hair both from The O'Hairs Store have been Directors. In that time O'Hair's was the best store statistically. Now with Zoey Grodno, The Pint is center stage.) Back in the CWU era of store management, pretty much anyone was able to get a store and was able to set up in Indigent, build stalls, and have their business sell whatever they want without Zoey Grdono saying "Well we already have the pint so no threats to me...i mean, no bars. Wait what?". Additionly, the Department of Business store in Victory 3 is the least active store and just a waste of space for potentislly another great store. It's an empty shell of what it once was when it held places like The Sanctum of Breen. Which, if you know the story there...was actually a source for a lot of rebel rp ;)

Rant aside, stores compliment rebel rp as fronts, as well as sources for certain materials like raw alcohol. I have even seen them as ways to launder chips into credits. All of which being great RP. But with the DoB in place, we will never see those avenues of RP again. (It's worth noting I think the DoB is an issue within itself and killing city rp as well)

2) Increase the "material cost" of everything so that items are more expensive. I'd go as far as to say just double everything and make a chip 1/4 of the value of a credit instead of 1/2.

3) Make trashbags more scarce. Back in the bottlestreet era there was like what...8 locations in and around the slums? Now there is like 40 or even more. I'd drastically decrease it so that people cannot build an entire rebel alliance out of literally somone else's trash. (Especially now with the introduction of player bmds, we can start to move the focus away from npc traders)

In the B/S era, trashbags were not sustainable nor a source to build an empire on. We mainly relied on shotcops, to then sell their gear to a BMD or keep their weapons for ourselves (USP matches & MP7's were much more common place back then). We'd also rely on expeditions or admin bmd events in the event box to aquire materials or perhaps even better weapons. All of which with a decent pk risk attatched. Trashbags were just...trash. They were a bonus that if we saw one we'd pick it up, but we wouldn't go looking for them. The most we ever needed trashbags for was to mass produce water bottles, flashlights and lighters. Water bottles for drinking and flashlights and lighters so that our smuggling rebels in our group can make some chips for us by selling them. (That was another thing, with the old systems many rebels used to have a focus. Whether it be a smuggler in the group, a crafter, a doctor, etc)
Agree entirely, but I think the map negatively reinforces the easiness of identifying and joining rebels. It's a public, small area, you can't get in or out without being recognised.
 
Agree entirely, but I think the map negatively reinforces the easiness of identifying and joining rebels. It's a public, small area, you can't get in or out without being recognised.

I'd argue that in the bottlestreet era, Indigent was much smaller. Though I will say, the best and most discreet exit is gone. That being the entrance/exit into HB-2. Then, if you smuggled a radio into the city, all it took was a quick call to be let back through that gate and no one has seen you come in nor out. Which was often the case for the smartest ones.

But overall there is more space to hide in now than there was. Something not really taken advantage of
 
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Now, they all hang out in the shelter/park in full gear talking ab their latest trash run and comparing the size of their dicks...*coughs* I mean guns. They seem to get the two confused though. And that is because the systems in place have bread that behavior. Anyway, here is how I think we could bring back some of that magic:
This is fax, I too have fallen victim to showing off my swag
 
Unlike random snitches who just want shiny sc's. Perhaps say snitches don't get sc to filter out the wanna be loyalists going out purposefully to find somone to snitch on, and keep it reserved for the few cases where a character has a genuine ic motivation to feel the need to flip sides and snitch to perhaps preserve their own life.

Honestly, I look at this another way - snitching is the easiest way to get SC, which is the only way to progress as a Loyalist. Otherwise you are stuck grinding on a scale far worse than what rebels have to go through as there are almost no way around it unless you want to grind a faction. At least rebels usually get stuff to do to break up their grind, and those weapons are a symbol of status.

As a loyalist? Lol, good luck.

Besides, honestly, 90% of rebels I've seen are superficially just as shallow. They get made with the intention of being rebels.
 
One of the biggest issues with Rebel RP is how easy PK's are to dish out. every other faction on the server has a much safer position than that of a rebel, not because of gear or equipment although that does factor in. It is VERY easy to get killed as a rebel, and pretty hard to get killed as say a CP. What i mean by this is that there are physically more RULES pertaining to PK's that apply to rebels.
I would say this is kinda true but personally I am not the best on this as I dont know the rules 100/100. I feel the PKs are equal apart from the weird clause of getting killed in the sewer is a PK fo sho but dying on the street might not be? as if dying in a sewer is different to dying on the street.
 
I really think (as much as it was a major relief on players and staff alike regarding OOC drama) the "No Hidden Bases" rule was a severe hit.
Ever since then I noticed that people just claimed bases but started using them a lot less to avoid unavoidable confrontations with the combine, causing them to walk around outside gear, it on or not, as little as it did to the issue, causing more sweeps, which are not very popular among them.
Housing getting clogged up causes the outside to get clogged up with containers to unrealistic extremes that sort of ruins the environment, and housing is a major contributor to groups and the like forming, it gives a sense of unity, and without that feeling its hard to create anything decent, making players rather just hop around alone scavenging until a barnacle grabs them or CPs find them with a kitchen knife and arrest them.
 
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I mean yeah? if someone wants to be a rebel why shouldnt they make a character that is striving to become a rebel?
Yes, but what I mean is they're no worse than loyalists who get made to be loyalists. Two sides of the same coin.

Both sides are going to do what they have to if it means advancing; the loyalist system is simply built to where snitching is often the quickest way to leapfrog points if you don't wanna grind jobs and piss off cops.
 
2. Rebels have a plethora of ways to be PK'd:
- Sewer NPC's (regardless of how broken some of them are, see; Gonome, Bullsquids etc etc)
- Becoming an Armed Combatant in ANY TBC, even if it is self-defence
- Captured and dragged away by Combine on a shadow sweep
- Killed for Crimes which you may not necessarily commit but might be in the presence of.
- Breaching Red Tier Contraband, so if CP's wander into the slums on a patrol and your wearing a trench-coat, you are PK'd if they catch you
- A slum patrol comes in and you happen to have a knife or an Axe out? your dead because you can either enter TBC as a defender and still be
If you only carry your contraband when you have a good reason 90% of these will never happen. Rebels are invincible as long as they're not stupid, if you have deadly contraband on you for no reason you deserve to die, and if you do it for a good reason then it's a risk you should be willing to take.

1) Remove the DoB.
dewit
2) Increase the "material cost" of everything so that items are more expensive
kinda too late ngl
3) Make trashbags more scarce.
idk maybe i havent played enough
Now, they all hang out in the shelter/park in full gear talking ab their latest trash run and comparing the size of their dicks...*coughs* I mean guns. They seem to get the two confused though. And that is because the systems in place have bread that behavior. Anyway, here is how I think we could bring back some of that magic:
you're missing the most important thing, kill those stupid fucks. if people are wandering around with guns on the streets, they should be dead or dying. that doesn't mean sweep the entire slums, or search everyone in there, but if someones wandering around with a gun there should be a sweep and they should be killed. you might not got them, but they'll get the idea when the sweeps happen too much. with willard it doesn't even need to be a PK, most of those people are scriptwhores and losing all their gear will be enough to change attitudes.
 
I mean yeah? if someone wants to be a rebel why shouldnt they make a character that is striving to become a rebel?

I think the point being made was that the character's have no further substance. Their only motivation is to be a rebel icly. Nothing more. Rather than just making a person and seeing where their story takes them. Though that's less of a fixable issue and more of just a play style preference imo. Tho i do dislike the copy & paste rebel mentality where scripts are considered more important than the character themselves.
 
As someone who is heavily invested in fixing RP (Rebel side in particular), I would actually like to know the full-top down solution most people would like to see implemented to try and kick the majority of rebels who choose to be script hunters all day even if it may cause some of them to leave in an act of bitterness towards whatever we were to implement.

My solution would be to try to make it more akin to some of the dynamics we saw back in the earlier stages of HL2RP.

Back then, it wasn't so much a matter of grinding out scripts or just farming some aspect of the server like rations, it was about who you knew. A big bulk or Rebel RP was about making a series of relationships. Lots of people from the early age of HL2RP will tell you that one of the most valued items wasn't a weapon or some armor but rather a radio/walkie-talkie because of what it opened up for you. Gaining trust, becoming part of a group that takes care of you and making connections with people to progress through the stages of becoming a rebel, that's what it's about. The fact that you can become a full-suited rebel with loads of firepower and scripts without ever speaking to another resistance member should shock people.
 
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Its the dick comparing in the end, it is tempting except if youre araskes or Sagsworth type of rational. That was more acceptable until the changes
 
My solution would be to try to make it more akin to some of the dynamics we saw back in the earlier stages of HL2RP.

Back then, it wasn't so much a matter of grinding out scripts or just farming some aspect of the server like rations, it was about who you knew. A big bulk or Rebel RP was about making a series of relationships. Lots of people from the early age of HL2RP will tell you that one of the most valued items wants a weapon or some armor but rather a radio/walkie-talkie because of what it opened up for you. Gaining trust, becoming part of a group that takes care of you and making connections with people to progress through the stages of becoming a rebel, that's what it's about. The fact that you can become a full-suited rebel with loads of firepower and scripts without ever speaking to another resistance member should shock people.

Yes! Absoloutley agree. Seen it on old communities and it was the same in the bottlestreet era. It was who you knew. It also breeds more oppertunistic type rebels than ppl made to be rebels. My long standing character opened a shop in Indigent and just kinda got to know the local scoop and names from being there all the time, leading me to gain inside connections and eventually deciding to join up using said connections.
 
I think the point being made was that the character's have no further substance. Their only motivation is to be a rebel icly. Nothing more. Rather than just making a person and seeing where their story takes them. Though that's less of a fixable issue and more of just a play style preference imo. Tho i do dislike the copy & paste rebel mentality where scripts are considered more important than the character themselves.
That makes more sense, I myself am no fan of john rebel players. sorry for the confusion @Rabid

Yes, but what I mean is they're no worse than loyalists who get made to be loyalists. Two sides of the same coin.

Both sides are going to do what they have to if it means advancing; the loyalist system is simply built to where snitching is often the quickest way to leapfrog points if you don't wanna grind jobs and piss off cops.
Personally I have only played rebel and never loyalist, I understand the loyalist grind and that to should be changed. However I have to be fair to the loyalists as I have personally never met a copy paste loyalist, however I dont really talk to people outside the slum.
 
That makes more sense, I myself am no fan of john rebel players. sorry for the confusion @Rabid


Personally I have only played rebel and never loyalist, I understand the loyalist grind and that to should be changed. However I have to be fair to the loyalists as I have personally never met a copy paste loyalist, however I dont really talk to people outside the slum.

I agree *most* loyalist characters are less copy & paste. But i find that is because city rp is not at all script focused (beside food and drink) and people tend to lean more toward "what kind of person would be fun to rp?" when making loyalist/city characters. However, I have seen many "GLORY TO THE UNION!!" *SALUTES* types in my time and I feel they r the ones who look at loyalism more like a grind, with the end goal to have a fancy jacket script to show off and a lil power. That being said though, I feel both loaylism and rebellion are best approached by circumstance, rather than an ooc choice when making the character.

Me for example, I have played the same character for almost a year, and in her time, by circumstance has found herself at polar opposite ends of the spectrum. From AC rebel with a loot haul most rebels (even now) can only dream of, to now a tier 2 loyalist climbing the ranks. That's because I personally only care ab my character's motivations and not my ooc ones. I let the story guide me, which has proved more fun (imo) than any ooc type "goal" ever could provide.
 
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If you only carry your contraband when you have a good reason 90% of these will never happen. Rebels are invincible as long as they're not stupid, if you have deadly contraband on you for no reason you deserve to die, and if you do it for a good reason then it's a risk you should be willing to take.
I agree with this, if someones RP is essentially "I am so fricking cool and shit and I'm like a navy seal and like the SAS and like Im everything under the sun so I should be allowed to carry my shit around" then they deserve to get gatted.

you're missing the most important thing, kill those stupid fucks. if people are wandering around with guns on the streets, they should be dead or dying. that doesn't mean sweep the entire slums, or search everyone in there, but if someones wandering around with a gun there should be a sweep and they should be killed. you might not got them, but they'll get the idea when the sweeps happen too much. with willard it doesn't even need to be a PK, most of those people are scriptwhores and losing all their gear will be enough to change attitudes.
This is also fax but the combine aint in the slum and all the rest of the players there are usually john rebel so maybe combine should come into the slum more often?
 
But i find that is because city rp is not at all script focused
I see the term script used alot and I am pretty unsure what that means? is that like the bin bags in the sewer and shit and items?
 
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